Plus Teph and Peace. Not liking anyone on SD. Getting sussed out for example that Gud appears to be on the pro-mafia train each day. Bah. Nothing concrete to go on. Ed and Peace seem nearly certain mafia given everything. But what about Turin? Bah bah bah. I dont know. Maybe I'm just wrong about it all.

Peace that is not very convincing.

That was for the newly dead I believe, not me and Teph.

So much for voting where I was comfortable. Getting to that point I the game where absolutely everyone is freaking me out. UNVOTE VOTE TURIN

Don't we want to preserve her independence?

Lol, I feel like we are going in a circle. So why shoot then?

Wait what is going on, lol. You're discussing if there is a bus driver and come to the conclusion that you're voting Turin.

I'm not sure you understand what empathize means. It doesn't have anything to do with agreement, but I don't think this is exactly the right place for the discussion.

1) The player doesn't matter. Anyone can rand anything. I try to read tone and try to empathize with their positions. Do their actions match the flavour of their posts? Do they seem motivated for a town victory? So while I could say it is all about actions, it is also about how those actions fit the way the person is posting. This is why for example I find over use of memes a pain as they are cookie cutter communication that have no meta-information. At least, not to me, maybe someone can judge gif choice or something but that seems a stretch. 2) Assuming that the cop/doc roles would not start in mafia hands, Gud and Ithi are unCC'd town. That assumption may bite us, but it seems a reasonable one. I'm not asking for a free pass, but I think my role was Town one, and I would think most people lean that way. Sure, keep me at arm's length, don't accept everything without criticism. I admit I wasn't thinking about the Symp when I claimed - all I can offer is the sincerity of my play as surety against that. Which brings me to your claim, it just doesn't counteract my read on how you have been playing. Your effect on the game seems to be entirely contrary to Town's best interests. That may be due to my reads being spectacularly wrong, but I can hardly set them aside and use yours, not least as you have me as definite mafia. Therefore I can only work on the assumption that regardless of your claim, you are the symp or mafia.

I'm sorry but this does not mean anything to me. If I cannot empathize with your actions, I can only assume you are mafia-aligned. This could of course be my failing, but there is not a lot I can do about that. My failings are after all integral to me. I feel you are being obstructionist and destructive and show no real attempt to hunt wolves. Your case on me seems to simply be you know I'm a wolf, I know I'm not. It is that simple, since you give no reasons for your opinion that only leaves the motivation of a mafia victory. I don't have anything else to work with because you haven't given me anything else to work with. I am, as Ithi put it, in a spiral of confusion and paranoia, and there are few sturdy things to hold onto. But one of them is your total lack of a case on me. I simply cannot let it go unless you can give something else to hold onto.

Though can we undo it if fuse the bond means something weird like sucking her into the codex? I mean I'm sure it won't but you guys have made me paranoid now about not using her in the ritual. Well, if the AI has anything to do with it she'll be a real girl in no time. Probably playing battleships, lol.

Thanks? lol.

It was not an attempt to bait - far from it. I was spitting-blood livid with your behaviour in combination with some other things like Dice's Gotcha moment. I said your reads were garbage as one, they were not backed up any reasons or showed any thought processes and appear, at least in my limited perception, to be entirely motivated to benefit the wolf team. Saying that I called you personally garbage is nonsensical and not an accusation I appreciate. I'm not picking a fight with you. I want to clarify your position so that I, as a town player, can see where you are coming from. At the moment it looks to me like you have been subbed into a symp role with your team having lost a member and having others sussed so you have decided to go big or go home. Your attack on me has no basis, you have given town cred to Peace and Ed and you have attacked the all-but-confirmed-town players for playing badly. Also you seem slightly confused as to whether I'm an obstinate, inexperienced loser who is losing the game for town, or a cunning wolf that has flown under everyone's radar but yours. You want to clear that up? And also, you have no idea who I am or what affronts me, and thankfully you don't seem to know where my buttons are so if you would kindly stop fumbling about my person, I'd appreciate it. Try to have a little decorum.

Should a wolf without making a case, sorry.

One step at a time. I am sussing Darthe on his behaviour, and that doesn't change remarkably with anything about Peace. But his defending of Peace is part of what is sketching me out, but it does make me feel all wonderful about Darthe even if Peace is town. Gun to my head, Darthe is the symp. I simply cannot see anyway his behaviour is pro-town. He is chastising everyone for not building a town core, yet the people that are in the de facto town core he attacks for having their head in the wrong place (Ithi), for being a liability if they don't agree with him (Gud) and being a wolf with a case (me). This is sketching me out. I accepted there seems no chance at all that Darthe is not the Mentalist. However if he is the Symp that does not mean he telling the truth about his investigations. Being a town!mentalist does not fit with his behaviour, not as I can understand it. So when he says that you and Sinister are not the same alignment that is entirely on his say so. I'm not voting him as as far as I can see, no one else is being even slightly sus of him, which I do not understand. Even Ithi is just assuming he has some big brain reason for acting the way he is acting and the fact she doesn't know what it is feels horribly like her acceptance of DPR's behaviour in the Action Hero game. But Ithi appears to be an unCC'd townie so.... yeah, I don't know. Voting for DPR the whole game did not get me very far, and in that game it really felt like there was nothing I could do to affect the outcome. I'm hoping this isn't going the same way. I'm voting Peace as he as had some incredibly wolfy moments, seems involved in a few other suspicions, and seems a fruitful avenue of research. Voting Darthe on my own does nothing but derail Peace's train. I'd love to get a bit more consensus but at least a few people are sketched out by Peace so that seems a good start as it is not reliant on one player's uncorroborated testimony, but reads from mulitple pro-town players. Berf is also suspicious but has been quiet over the weekend. Ed is also remarkably suspicious. Teph seems all but confirmed mafia. So my feelings are the mafia and the symp are among Teph/Darthe/Berf/Peace/Ed but Sinister's behaviour has not all been comforting, your reasoning at times seems really really sketchy, Shad seems to be clever enough to seem reasonable even when he is making the most outrageous lies up. So I am not claiming to have solved the game but these are the reads I have to work with.

Consider also how active Peace was and how confrontational. Now Darthe is arguing the case he has slanked off (could be weekend etc) but does it not stand out to you that Peace was all buddy buddy with Ithi, then got aggressive and is now chill with Darthe defending him and pointing out how difficult his posts would be to fake as a wolf. I don't see it myself, but I do see collusion. We need to be hunting wolves, not discussing spec or debating if we should follow Darthe blindly. There is nothing mod confirmed that says we should, and we will lose if he is wrong. That is way I see it at least.

I don't see any possibility from Darthe's play that he is not mafia or the symp. No one has offered any reasoning for how he has played except from Darthe is gonna Darthe and that I am so bad I should eliminated every game for the good of everyone. Neither of these convinces me in the slightest. We are voting Peace (some of us) to see what shakes out rather than voting for you or Sinister as that comes down to do we trust Darthe or not, nothing about our reads. And what shook out when we voted Peace? Super Darthe to the rescue! It seems ignoring Peace and following Darthe purely on the strength of Darthe saying this is a good idea seems sub-optimal play.

Yes I am accepting that he is the Mentalist, and will do until there is a CC, which seems unlikely at this point. I did at the time have a little moment where I thought there was a way where it could be a fake claim but I was wrong about the mechanics there (for full disclosure, so no one can claim I'm contradicting myself). I don't agree with any of Darthe's reads. I think his behaviour has been resolutely anti-town. I cannot see anyway he is working for town's benefit and his argument to convince me is that I am so bad at mafia I should be policy lynched at the beginning of every game. Do you see how that is not a particularly convincing argument for me? So I don't care about Darthe's claim of alignment at all. I think we should be hunting wolves. And Darthe is claiming I'm a wolf (which I can 100% confirm I'm not), Ed is sound, Peace is sound - it seems like Darthe is blocking all leads into the wolves and the symp without giving any reasons that he can just tell. This does not give me any confidence in anything else he is saying, and until he can actually justify anything he is saying I think he is best ignored.

The sad fact is that many people here have not been discussing the show or the books but have been simply on a crusade against certain politics. No matter what people think regarding the quality of the show I cannot understand people that don't appreciate the extra content regarding the story, and I don't mean the show itself, but all the discussions, the fodder for content creators, the new members on sites like DM... even if you were only united in your hatred of the show. I think the difference between people such as Samt (sorry to pick on you) who may disagree with me on nearly everything but clearly is invested in the books and this community, and these anti-woke crusaders who gatekeep the books while often showing really poor understanding of the books is very clear.

*is suspicious, lol.

I'm not doubting the claim. My point is that everything single thing Darthe has done is anti-town that I can see. Clearing Ed. Attacking me without any reasons. Voting on Teph's counter train. Bullying people in thread for not agreeing with him. Not making a case about anything. So I am deeply, deeply suspicious of his behaviour. In this context, it makes no sense just to accept his claim about anyone's alignment. I mean we are at 8-2 if we are lucky at the moment, 7-3 if you count the Symp. If Darthe is not telling the truth we'll be at 4-2 with the Symp still along (assuming one mafia NK per night and no other mishaps). And he wants to eliminate me as well without question, that is a straight mafia victory and it relies on no reads, no case, no mod confirmation, just a "trust me bro" where if we do and we shouldn't we have lost the game. Am I really the only person that isn't suspicious about this?

Totally about progression. But I would argue there is a difference in saying 1) I feel good about player x for this reason and bad about them for that reason, so I'm feeling null. This shows what you are thinking and is something that people can read sincerity into, and you can be held accountable for if you contradict yourself later. And 2) player X might be defending me because they think I'm town, or for town cred when I flip (even though there are no flips) or because they want to use this in a different argument or I might be completely wrong. This doesn't show what you think about any possibilities, it isn't something that can be read for intention, and there is nothing there that you can be held accountable for at a later date as it is only talking about possibilities, not what reads/feelings are. With Sinister it is awkward as I have no example of how Town!Sinister plays, and too often this obfuscating style of posting seems far too reminiscent of Wolf!Sinister. And yes, I'm bitter and jealous that he keeps talking about what fun it was to play as wolf and confuse everyone when they already were completely confused, lol. When is it going to be my turn, huh?

Here Darthe again is using the argument, "you don't know how to play, do what I say or you are a liability". While the information about his claim certainly holds up, the argument that Gud or anyone therefore must believe his claim about Turin/Sinister as true is simply not true at all. Not even taking into account the bus driver. Hilarious "complex reasons", I presume too complex to go into with such poor players as us? We'll just take your word for it then. Darthe has just come into thread and with very little reasoning attacked most people who don't agree with him. Ithi he loves but she is completely wrong. He needs Gud not to be a liability. (Note these are the two as good as confirmed Townies so long as no one CCs, which probably should have happened by now if it was going to.) I'm an obvious wolf for obvious yet unstated reasons (and still no explanation for the flyby vote). Ed is solid town because he shot me without voting or being current in the thread. Peace is trying solve when he is arguing about flavour of the scenes when the mechanics make it 100% clear what went down, and he is obviously town as he has multiple posts that Darthe claims would be difficult to make as a wolf even though other experienced players don't see this. I still don't get the "Darthe gonna Darthe" as some free pass to do things without a case, without reasons. Darthe is trying to turn around the entire narrative and his sole argument is that it is so obvious that we all should see it, no further explanation necessary. I'm still waiting for anyone to come up with an explanation of how this could be town behaviour, and that invitation is also open to Darthe himself. Or is it all just "complex reasons" that no one else will understand?

Your read on me (that has no reasoning whatsoever) is so good that you are clearing someone that is confident enough to shoot someone, but not vote and admits is not current in the thread. This is what I am talking about garbage reads, they don't have anything to the actual game. Ed has made no case against me, explained to reads, given no reasoning. But you are clearing him because you want me dead for reasons that you aren't willing to share. Where do you both get this confidence? The only place I can see is if you are on the mafia/symp side of things. Town has to work things out from reasoning and reads, something completely lacking from both of you.

Words have meaning, Darthe. I said it was your reads that were garbage, and it was a disappointment to read your post. It is kind of hilarious that after getting burned and deaded for taking the position of "Git gud, noob" and offering to teach me how to play last game when I sussed you, you are now taking the injured position of "Heavy is being mean to me". Isn't a good look, especially not when you are also calling me a serial loser and claiming that I'm so bad that I should be policy lynched every game. I see you have built on your garbage raisin-free case of "these are wolf posts, this is a wolf" by calling my posts "slop" that any townie worth their salt can tell is from a wolf. Still completely free of any reasons as to how my reasoning or behaviour has anything to do with alignment at all except for "trust me, bro". I repeat, this is total garbage.