Yeah it is just like she looked into a crystal ball and looked straight into soul. Freaky.

I take your point, but it could also be cogently argued that the inconsistencies and other changes allow for more conjecture. Sadly all conjecture is just that now - no more turning of the Wheel to illuminate theories, no more answers from the Creator himself. Speculation has to the goal in and of itself.

Beetroot is fantastic in nearly every application - that I have tried at least. Threads like these always make wince a little, after reading that a major red flag on dating profiles are people that list whether they like pineapple on pizza in their profiles as this indicates a complete lack of personality or even the understanding of what one is. I must say I don't fully agree with this, but it has definitely made me wary about expressing an opinion on the matter in public, lol.

I also think it is important to realise that it is the change of author that is the main issue, not Sanderson himself. From the sounds of it, if Sanderson had finished the stories on his own we would have had a very different last three books, but the Jordan Estate did a lot of work with red pen on his manuscripts. I don't see how this would not lead to inconsistencies and unfinished plot lines. I find a lot of the last books disappointing - but in my experience, endings of epics nearly always are in some ways.

My theme tune, graciously supplied by Poppy. https://youtu.be/wbQsxWKfTSU?si=4lMZGFKK3AS2lU-N

Druss the Legend, so cheesy that he should be awful but is so wonderful.

8. Are they a gholem?

M O R I _ I _ / IS / CUTE There is an R🙂 Guessed A C E I L M O P R S T U 3 notches Cairos on the gallows. Arie has the noose around her neck.

That must be really tough, Lily. Will be thinking of you and sending you spiritual hugs.

Too many broken hearts - Jason Donovan

Face Down - Red Jumpsuit Apparatus

Of course everyone will have a different opinion of the overall quality of the show. The first series I would say had some huge production issues - a lot of scenes looked like low quality LARPing, especially with Rand's trademark shearling oversize coat. The end of the season, even with COVID and missing cast members at times is shockingly awful, like they just gave up and let the YTS guy have a go. It just annoys me when people want to change from discussion the show to politics, and even then assumed politics rather than what people have actually come and said. Or the attempt to prove "bad writing" which mean you have "bad writers" which means it is a "bad show" and should be cancelled, rather than looking at it as a thing that does somethings well, somethings not so well, somethings badly. New content in an IP should always be welcomed, even if it is not pulled off well. And for me, the show is good, and is also markedly improved in the second season. But of course, everyone else's milage may vary, and imho, these forums should be about discussing the successes and failures not for mounting attempts to vilify the whole endeavor, or sanctify it either. Hmm, not sure I am using sanctify correctly but too lazy to check so I'll just explain that here in detail instead. Much easier.

*grins* M O _ I _ I _ / IS / CUTE There is a C 🙂 Guessed A C E I L M O P S T U 3 notches Cairos on the gallows. Arie has the noose around her neck.

M O _ I _ I _ / IS / _ U T E There is a U 🙂 Guessed A E I L M O P S T U 3 notches Cairos on the gallows. Arie has the noose around her neck.

M O _ I _ I _ / IS / _ _ T E There is an M 🙂 Guessed A E I L M O P S T 3 notches Cairos on the gallows. Arie has the noose around her neck.

The Red Ajah plot seems a bit confused as the "traditional" Reds would be pretty much declaring war on the Black Tower, which seems like too much of a black and white conflict. I'm not sure that Arad Doman renaming itself to sound like Bayle Domon's long-lost Irish half brother catches my imagination. The Borderlands sounds quite interesting, but - and I have to admit I blanked out a lot of Tarmon Gai'don - isn't the Blight gone now the bore has been completely sealed? I cannot really think of anything - the Dragon's Peace is quite constraining. A cold war between the Aiel, the Towers, the Griffon League and Greater Andor could be a very fertile backdrop but is also very diffuse (even cutting out the Southern Nations and Western), and involve a lot of NPCs and politics. And it would just be a back drop instead of story line. I simply dunnoes.

_ O _ I _ I _ / IS / _ _ T E There is no L, sadly. Guessed A E I L O P S T 3 notches Cairos on the gallows. Arie has the noose around her neck.

Two Rivers or Two Towers? I'll abstain from voting as ah dinnae have a scooby. Most of the scenarios in my mind seem to be re-writing the setting too much, so that too much would about setting up new institutions and political systems and so on. But I have never done this before, so I am quite content to have my misgivings sit on the side and learn from experience. I would in many ways prefer a timeline before the books, except for the Black Tower - it would seem a shame to exclude that. But anyway, I'll watch these discussions with interest, but don't think I can give much meaningful input and I am completely confident that you guys will work out something very satisfactory.

I, Heavy, have read the above and rules, and would like to join the Roleplay! No to the Legacy Group access, thank you.

There was meant to be the clue that Bashere did not recognise Taim, not sure I really got that, but it was meant to be a hint that it was not Taim at all. One huge clue for me was Taim's knowledge of how to test a man for the ability to channel. How would any individual work that out? And why would Taim care? There was no evidence that he cared about recruiting disciples or underlings. Then there was his obvious hatred of Rand. If Asmodean could at least pretend to be on Rand's side, why could Taim not? But yes, I found the whole Demandred story line a bit of a let down. Nearly all of the other Forsaken had a role to play (if they were not dead anyway, poor Be'lal, why was Rahvin scared of him?) but Demandred was held back like an ace in a sleeve and was just a disappointment, imho. Didn't even have Graendel's bosom, or wear streith, strange how that was a female thing in the books....

Are they Shadowspawn?

This is an interesting concept. Though I think it plays around with one of weak parts of the story - or perhaps I should more rightly say, part of the story I have a hard time getting my head around. There is no such thing as an evil ta'veren. Or a good one. The pattern is neutral, in balance and cares not for such concepts. And yet, the Heroes of the Horn are bound to the pattern to fight for the Light and the Champion of the Creator. So this means they are to balance the Shadow of the Dark One? The pattern needs a Dragon, to the extent that it throws up False Dragons at a high frequency until the real Dragon appears (why? how could that possibly help? If Rand falls down a flight of stairs and dies as a child, could Mazrim Taim have taken over? What about the Prophecy?) Nearly all parts of the Pattern working appear to be working to the benefit of the Light, despite the philosophical teachings that get in the book. This could be because the Dark One is trying to pervert the Pattern so it is applying a form of homeostasis. But then it still questions that then the pattern needs the perversion of the Dark One to play out like the Age Lace needs. Which means there never was any danger as the Pattern was in complete control all the time - indeed so long as the Prophecies were fulfilled it shows the Pattern knew exactly what was coming. For Fain, we really have to look at Mordeth. He was the expert in getting into the high end of society and corrupting it. Not something the books really explore, for all we meet Mordeth he reamins more a legend or myth. Though the interesting thing is that he is not a thing of the Dark One - he was an opponent of the Shadow every bit as much as the Dragon was. So is he an instrument of the Pattern? Without him, Rand would have failed. So it was inevitable that all the atrocities that Aridhol committed would happen, all the deaths and suffering at Shadar Logoth, all the people Fain kills and corrupts. Each turning of the Wheel, without fail. Ishamael is right, there is no escape. The Pattern purposefully chooses to weave in suffering. And the best it has to offer is stop the Dark One remaking the Wheel into his own image.

_ O _ I _ I _ / IS / _ _ T E There is a T 🙂 Guessed A E I O P S T 2 notches Cairos on the gallows. Arie on the gallows

Yes, I appreciate that it is pointless to go into a full discussion on the history - but what I mean is that when the ability to raise taxes became severely hampered, lead to large sections of the specialized urban technology to be lost. There simply was no way to fund all these people who were not directly productive. This lead not to a decline, but a sudden loss, in certain sectors. I imagine farming was unaffected, as no one stopped farming at point. The recovery from that point was slow, but it did happen. Wars did not stop progress, though they could certainly slow it. In areas like the Americas where complex societies were wiped away by climate change, such as droughts of more than a hundred years, which wiped out concentrated urban populations. Same in Egypt between Kingdoms where climate conditions meant the dissipation of population concentrations, and everyone went back to subsistence farming until excess food could be produced again. The breaking surely could be such a situation, but the Trolloc Wars and Hundred Years War seem more questionable to me.

This does not seem correct. At the start of the Dark Ages, the collapse of the Roman Empire, or more particularly, the collapse of an effective tax collecting apparatus, meant a loss of much knowledge. But this does not equate to steady decline. Some things, such as metal work went backwards - the Romans made helmets on lathes out of single pieces of metal - in the Dark Ages in Europe this was replaced by the Spangenhelm (made up of small plates held together by bands) as the ability to produce and work large pieces of metal had been lost. However the ability to work metal continued to develop, leading to full plate in the fifteenth century, far surpassing Roman abilities. This was then superseded by technological advancements in weaponry, making the cost and weight of armour uneconomical. Hardly a steady decline in technology, in fact, exactly the opposite. And in the East, the Roman Empire did fall until 1452 (I guess, too lazy to look up) completely so did not experience a Dark Age in the same way. And that is only looking at Europe (as is the wont of Europeans). History in no way shows a steady decline, at any point. How would the industrial revolution ever have happened if technology had been going backwards for 1200 years? This is just something that is not touched upon in the books. Take the Two Rivers, there are no schools, not even the most rudimentary, zero mention of any technology relating to farming, and no sense of changing practices over time. Mat shows literacy is not a given, and despite most characters being avid readers, we see that literacy is not common amongst the common people. I don't think this is a deliberate point in the books - it is simply part of the agrarian "medieval" culture, and this particular aspect simply has not been dealt with.