Thanks guys for all the kind and encouraging words. Sorry to have taken so long to reply but DM has been conspiring against me, lol. Really has been uplifting to hear that I am not quite as bad at Mafia as I feared and even more so to know that my efforts were not unappreciated. Perhaps my retirement announcement was premature, but I will be taking a break from playing for a bit. Sitting in on the wolves is an interesting offer, thank you for that and the idea. I won't take you up on it this time but that would certainly be interesting. Anyway thanks again, playing Mafia here has been a real rush for all that it has shredded my mental health at the same time, and it has been great getting to experience it all with you guys 🙂

I think Ishamael makes a stronger argument than Zen Rand. In circular time, doing better the next time makes zero difference. As that just means other people have to do worse to come back to the same starting point again. Ishamael makes a solid point though. In the Third Age and every Third Age an infinite number of Borderlanders will be abducted, including infants and children of all ages to be sexually violated, eaten and sacrificed to make Thakandar blades. Nothing Rand can do will ever stop this. It is eternal suffering, for what could be argued little point. This is what Ishamael wants to stop, as the Light can never win to make the suffering worthwhile.

Maybe I'm getting my timelines wrong but I'm pretty sure Zombie Darthe was the second vote on my train and the prime motivation for me becoming the countertrain to Teph. After my claim, assassination and resurrection, I can see the point that no one is really going to vote a "confirmed" townie (as if anything was really confirmed in that game, lol) and it also made Peace look fairly scummy for how he wriggled about still being suss of me. But as I say, I am not complaining about the game, I'm talking about how I could not treat it as a game. It stimulates so many socializing parts of brain that I don't really use any more that I act like it is real. It feels real. I'm not sure I can ever change that. The feeling of betrayal is real, but it is after the whole point of the game.

Lol, he nearly got me lynched and probably got me shot. At least I can laugh about it now, hehe.

Thanks, Ithi [blue heart] But it is not about what happened in the thread, it is my reaction to it. I mean, I was really really angry. What would have happened if I had had a drink? Or already been on edge because of something else? Just in a couple of hours it went from at last seeming like I would have a good game, that my reads made sense, that there was a consensus that I was Town in the thread, and then *poof* it was all gone. And then when you and Darthe started working together, and it suddenly seemed possible your town read of me was just a wolf buddying up to me like Turin had done in Among Us, that felt really horrible. And it shouldn't, I should be thinking "well played, Ithi" if that was the case. And I get this is how the game goes, it's my reaction to it that is the problem. Like in the Among Us game, Cass was laughing with Lenlo about how scummy he had been when he was mislynching her in her sleep. I don't think I can ever get to that headspace, not at least without going through an incredible amount of emotional pain to come out on the other side. It is just too real for me. I guess at least I can now take Zander's crown of the most villagy villager ever to village, lol. Never randed wolf even once, lmao.

Thanks for the game everyone 🙂 It was interesting, lol. I think I'll be announcing my permanent retirement from mafia though. This was again fairly brutal for me. At least Town won this time, well done guys, though it had little to do with me. I felt to an extent that I had a good feel for what was going on, except for Ed he really threw me, but I guess getting shot will do that for you, lol. But Turin's "I wrote down random things" case, Dice's gotcha for not being emo enough (which he left up unexplained so skimmers, especially wolf skimmers could latch onto my "slip") and then zombie Darthe's "this is a wolf" declaration (which I am to understand was a ploy so the wolves would think you weren't on to them?) completely wrecked my standing in the thread and I will be honest left me absolutely livid. I was really angry. I am a really chill guy in real life but mafia just needles me in ways I don't have any defenses against. By the end I was consumed with paranoia. Why was Ithi working with Darthe? How did the Siren know Dice was going to interact with them? Why did Gud so overreact at a lighthearted joke? Every single player seemed completely untrustworthy. I would have been zero help had the endgame actually ended up needing any reads. I've noticed that some people seem to think my trigger is being told I'm not any good (presumably from my "stop hating on new players" spiel) but honestly I don't care at all about that. Don't like it much obviously, but facts are facts, lol. What I find so triggering is the alienation, being excluded, the helplessness and sense of inadequacy that comes from no one listening and even if they did you don't have a clue what is going on. I get that enough in real life. Not wanting to make an AtE, but I spend Christmas, birthdays, my kids' birthdays, etc., alone. I live in a country where I don't have any friends and I don't speak the language very well. I've watched my entire life crumble around me and look back over 47 years of failure and bad choices that have left me with pretty much nothing. No career, no money, no friends, and no right to see my kids. So playing a game where complete isolation is a recurring theme has just not worked out for me. I hoped it might be like some kind of exposure therapy, but it just rubs me too raw, and being everyone's favourite distractionary target as I'm so emo and no one listens to me if I get poked as everyone "knows" its only OMGUS, it is just never going to be a winning combination. But thanks for playing with me, and all the kind words and all the help that was given to me. It really just is the nature of the game. I can argue that perhaps some people relish the toxicity perhaps a little too much, but it is just a game and it is my issue that I cannot emotionally distance myself enough. Which is a shame as I have had a lot of fun around the anguish, and it has been really fun getting to know such legends of Dragonmount. Something of a dream come true for me. So thanks for everything, guys 🙂

See I told you this was a good idea lol. Lets make up a new weave on the fly. Or 1 or 2, I guess.

I'm right here 🙂

Lol, regarding the times I cannot add 5+7 lol. Ithi and Turin are in British Summer Time, which is UTC+1, I'm in Central European Summer Time, which is UTC+2, and EST is UTC-5. So unless I still cannot add then it is midnight for me which should be fine.

Is there anything in particular that stops you from giving times in UTC? Sheesh. That is 2am for me, at least if it is also 1am for Ithi and Turin and I've not made a mistake calculating lol. That should be fine.

I am not pretending that media has not hamfistedly been used to bludgeon all sorts of messages. My point is merely that what I feel should be under discussion is the details of the show and not any supposed agenda, not least as this is not a political forum, but I think we should also be able to agree that the moral of the story (like Prince Adam telling us kids why He-man was beating up the bad guys each week) doesn't dictate the quality of the show. Like, in a fairly bizarre example, in the King and I, what the governess teaches the children (about freedom in the film (i.e., US values) but discipline (i.e., British Empire values) in the book) is not what makes the film a classic or not, or be the sole judge of whether someone enjoyed it.

You are confusing turnings of the Wheel and the Flickerverse, from my understanding. I'm not an infallible source of information, but I'm pretty sure of this. The Flickerverse are like quantum worlds where every alternate reality exists, but the further from the true reality they are the less real they are. Unreliable narrator notwithstanding, we are specifically told the Dark One being imprisoned is a constant in all worlds, one of only two. But even in worlds where the Trollocs win the Trollocs wars for example, that doesnt affect reality. There are worlds with every outcome except the Dark One breaking free.

Yeah I had a discussion post that was forbidden thanks to quotation marks, removed them and it was fine. But it has been a huge improvement on yesterday. And you need practice using your words anyway, Ithi, Lolololol *hides*

Drunk

This thread is clearly talking about not about the show but about the discussions and interest around it. And that includes negative criticism. But this is exactly the point I am making. Look at these people who have not bothered to correctly read the OP or the responses to it but see this as another opportunity to be negative about the show. It is telling that even when talking about all the content created around the show, all the discussions with people who enjoyed the show, those that thought it was flawed and those that hated it, we can see many people here who are so set in their opinions that they learned nothing from all of this, they are not even willing to discuss and learn from those that they agree with, it is a blanket the books are good and cannot be questioned and the show is bad. As expat points out, we are talking about years of discussion, years of reading other people's perspectives. And yet to some this is purely about campaigning against a certain type of politics they don't like.

A debate does not consist of shouting your opinion loudly over the top of others. Nor is it arguing your subjective opinion is objective fact. To debate, to argue means to be willing to change your position on your opponents arguments. If there is nothing that could possibly ever change your mind you are talking about a shouting match, not a discussion.

I'm curious about the corrupted gate of power. Perhaps that is the repressed superhero-villain in me speaking though, lol. Wow DM just loaded two pages in a row without bugging out. Wat luxe!

So it's hammer

Vote Turin

Vote turin

It's nearly 3am.is anything happening soon?

No, you have completely misunderstood. The lives he sees are nothing to with the turning of the Wheel. These are his Flicker universe selves. The sort of quantum where each different choice, chance plays out. So there are infinite Flicker worlds, though they become more weak the further from reality they go. There are two constants through these worlds. One is Tel'aran'rhiod, this goes through all of these. The other is that the Dark One is imprisoned in them all. If he is freed in one, he is freed on all. If he is imprisoned in one, he is imprisoned in them all. It is a paradox, though it questions if it would ever be physically possible to free him. The turnings of the Wheel refer to the cyclical time, as opposed to linear. Time has been going on forever, and there are an infinite number of Third Ages in the past and an infinite number in the future. What differences there are, we don't know. Different people being the forsaken, different darkfriends, different details but same broad pattern as the Wheel demands balance and such things as ta'veren pull things about. In theory, Rand might lose the last battle, and the Pattern will correct. It is suggested that what Rand must not do is submit to the Dark One. Ishamael believes that for some reason this particular turning is special, that complete victory is possible, and that the Dark One can truly break free and break the Wheel. Is he right? Who knows, but it sets up the linear story so that readers and the characters don't just think that everything will be OK because time is cyclical isn't it? There can be no permanent victory or defeat. We never see the Dark Prophecies, but it doesn't really make sense that this Age would be different from any other turning. But it is necessary for the story to think it is a possibility.

Lol sorry. Guess it was loading in the background. And I was going to add, Ah the forums are down again. But the wolves have a discord channel. And the EoN has been moved from 6am to 2am Australian time and we have no way of checking if Dice even knows because no one can communicate with him?

So we are the point that as soon as day starts Dice can tell us who the Siren is, but Town have vote quicker than the wolves or it doesn't matter and that is what the rest of the game looks like? This set up that is all about vibes and feels and not entirely about the power roles? Am I missing something? Of course, we don't even know the alignment of the Siren and won't even if we kill them. And I have to ask how would the Siren know Dice was going to interfere with them? And why is no one else talking about what is coming?

So we are the point that as soon as day starts Dice can tell us who the Siren is, but Town have vote quicker than the wolves or it doesn't matter and that is what the rest of the game looks like? This set up that is all about vibes and feels and not entirely about the power roles? Am I missing something? Of course, we don't even know the alignment of the Siren and won't even if we kill them. And I have to ask how would the Siren know Dice was going to interfere with them? And why is no one else talking about what is coming?