57 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

 Matt thinks her and Thom is out of the blue because it is, it is never really hinted at in the books because we never know what Moiraines emotions are.

On the other hand, I liked it because it fits them so much.

they are both extremely skilled social players. they can read volumes in a raised eyebrow. they can ask you a couple innocent questions and from those understand things about you that you yourself never suspected. they could read the comments in this forum and from those somehow predict who will win the next elections.

so it makes so much sense for them to just spend some time around each other, mostly ignoring each other, and yet somehow understanding everything.

I can see their married life.

M looks at T

T looks at M

M looks at T

T leaves without saying a word

Thom noticed the slight twitching in moiraine's finger; it means she's nervous. and she gets nervous when she doesn't have a good breakfast. it means they run out of milk, so thom went to the market. Moiraine perfectly understands where he's going and why

6 hours ago, Mailman said:

No it does not.

 

She took him to a party where they stole some wine.

 

Even if they put spies on them which from that interaction i would deem a low chance how would they have been followed up

 

Just one word: ta'veren

very convenient for the plot

even in the books there are places where characters throw around numbers wildly. i remember nynaeve remarking on the circle healing mat that it was twice as powerful as her, despite being made by a half dozen of the most powerful sisters available with vora's sa'angreal.

so no, don't put much faith in characters throwing numbers.

40 minutes ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Not on current topic but regarding the episode, I have to just say….when nyneave says regarding her experience in the arches “I was in there for years” and clearing up the possibility that it was more of a dream like experience, it really struck me. Holy eff! She has lived years in her awareness of a life that actually happened and suddenly has to adjust to returning to a reality and world that she had probably lost all memory of. That’s mind blowing. 

I don't think the arches accelerate time like that.

I think it was more of a dream like experience, where nyn felt like years passed when in reality she just skipped scenes.

I don't think it will be ever expanded upon, though

11 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I think it works well because it gives Elayne something to call back to in future when she tries to talk the girls out of doing something rash. Although Elayne gets more and more irrational as the books go on to the point of stupidity, she is the one character who never seems to want to lose the unique ability the girls have of strolling into a trap, I really hope that show Elayne does not become that irritating queen who doesn't realise that once she is on the throne she can get other people to do all that dangerous stuff. 

elayne is foolhardy, not irrational.

nynaeve and egwene get into all kinds of conflicts based on emotions, often making problems with someone just because they got angry with that someone for futile reasons that may even be their own faults in the first place. I remember many scenes where nynaeve and egwene just struggle for power.

I don't remember elayne having none of that crap. she's always been one of the few people in the saga who does not pick petty grudges. aviendha said, her sister would try to make peace in a water-feud, and she would probably succeed. as for power, while she generally expects to lead in politics based on the sound argument that she's trained for it, she quickly defers to the other girls when it comes to things that are outside of her expertise.

elayne also takes lots of personal risks, even when it's not the best idea. Yes, she makes a lot of bad judgments there. However, she's not irrational. What she does has a logical goal. Yes, she is very optimistic on the risk-reward balance, and she does push bravery well past the point where it becomes recklessness. But it's never in a "I just didn't feel like it" way.

which is why it is perfectly appropriate for elayne to travel the ways and go fight seanchans with her friends, but it's not appropriate to not raise objections when nynaeve goes like "I have those very vague reports that could potentially hint perrin is in trouble somewhere and I must go" when you don't even know where he is with an approximation of hundreds of kilometers, and you will take months to even get there, and you're not even sure that party of shienarans is perrin's, and by the time you get there most likely perrin will have managed on his own or will be dead anyway.

actually, I would say jumping into that kind of odds is typical nynaeve.

23 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Elayne didn't have a chance to try and talk them out of it, or argue with them, or be sent away, Liandrin appeared far to quickly for that which is clever writing because it means Elayne's character is not leaving for just no reason she followed the girls to try and talk them out of trouble, and got caught up in that trouble instead.

maybe. i would have liked her to voice at least the start of an objection. but you are right, it could work with some proper explanation afterward.

just in the same way that the giant seanchan wave could have worked wonderfully if it was shown to be used for intimidation, but it was never mentioned again.

so i'm not holding my breath waiting for it

1 hour ago, Vartija said:

 

 

How did she sneak into the room without either noticing anything especially without her channelling abilities?

 

I agree on most of your points, but this one can be answered easily: both rand and lanfear were understandably very distracted at the moment.

Anyway, channeling would have alerted lanfear. Moiraine had better chances without the power

Some good and some bad. I'm not passing judgment on lanfear recovery until we see where it goes, but her reveal was kinda underwhelming. Moiraine with her knife, good introduction.

Didn't like lan. His bond drama is not clear; worse, it undermines the stepin arc - that would have worked with moiraine dead, but at this moment it is just confusing.

And didn't like nynaeve leaving just like that. "I am an accepted, i can leave"? And for what, she spends months traveling with only a vague direction of where perrin might be? Especially disappointed in elayne; earlier episodes she was the coolheaded one, talking egwrne out of stupid decisions. In the books she came because an aes sedai authorized the trip; what's her plan now? Best case scenario she'll disappear for months, throwing andor in a political crysis. Which sort of happened in the books too, but she had better motivations.

Moiraine sister was great cahirien plotting. Perrin was great. Min was great

good question, without a definite answer. the same scene can look cool to some, silly to others. it can look cool the first time you see it, and silly once you stop and think a moment.

I got the impression that liandrin was trying to get nynaeve killed in an accident - that would not implicate her -, so that the light would lose a powerful channeler. if the black ajah was thinking to recruit her, they failed to understand nynaeve.

as for ages, our media conveniently forgets that in the past it was normal for girls to start having childrens in their teens. so liandrin can be in her 70s and have a son in his late 50s or early 60s - maybe made before coming to the tower - that looks older due to illness.

but yeah, since we all conveniently forget how early people had children in the past, i doubt they're using it as an explanation.

i wonder how much all those "it's implied" about character ages are reliable.

16 hours ago, Guire said:

I have been trying to get a rewatch in before commenting too much.  One thing I discovered.  On rewatch I downloaded show to my laptop at highest graphic settings.  Before I had been watching on TV or phone streaming.  My laptop has a good screen and I use a good bluetooth speaker for sound.  The viewing experience was a massive upgrade.  The costuming I wasn't really big on became impressive.  Various dark and overlite appearing scenes became clear and balanced.  The sound also made a big difference.  I think this is first show I have ever watched that image quality and sound made that huge of a difference to my enjoyment.  I watched a few episodes of RoP on laptop in same fashion and it didnt change my dislike of Rings at all.

damnit. they've cheated me.

I've been watching it streaming, at "best" video quality; uses almost 7 gb per hours. I downloaded it at "optimum" video quality, which uses 2 gb per hour. and yet the "optimum" quality is a lot better. I can finally see what happens in the fight with lan.

thank you for the tip. now I will watch all new episodes like that

on the other hand, the alanna of the show is a much more nice person, it would feel wrong for her to bond rand against his will.

then again, they could easily use someone else to do it

1 hour ago, Agitel said:

 

In the book Nynaeve has to choose to stay or go. The first TV test everyone was already getting murdered and it was too late to help so leaving was a no brainer. Second one was right though I think they could have twisted the emotional knife more. Third one was actually right on the first pass, but in the second pass there really wasn't anything else she could do. Everyone was already dead except the girl.

 

The difference is the temptation to stay because she thinks she can make a difference, where there is an alternative, but in two out of three (overall) there really was no other rational choice but to leave. The question is whether she's willing to leave things behind in order to be Aes Sedai, not just about confronting her fears and having her hand forced because by the time she makes her choice there's no one left to help or save or happiness to pursue.

oh, right.

on the other hand, while in the first vision she really could do nothing, in the second she probably knew enough as wisdom to help with herbs, and in the third she still had a child to care for. the fact that she didn't just abandon the child but tried to bring her through the arch is a defining statement for nynaeve. here's where she says "i'm not going to abandon my loved ones for the white tower, i'm not going to choose them or the tower. I'm going to both save them and be aes sedai, and if I can't, so be it".

she has a similar moment in her final aes sedai testing in the later books.

the trollocs killing everyone else made her choice easier, yes. on the other hand, they also served as a warning. run away from your power, run away from your responsibilities, and bad things will happen to everyone. it could be what gives her the motivation to seek the one power

2 hours ago, Samt said:

The accepted test is no longer an actual test since it isn't clear what else Nynaeve can do besides run through the portal.

50 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

We don't know much about the test at this point.

wait, am I the only one who think the test is perfectly clear? ok, they don't spell it straight out, but the point is: she must get into each of the three arches and come back. if she can't go in, she fails and she is put out of the tower. if she can't get out, she fails, but that's the least of her problems.

What's unclear about it all?

Quote

While I appreciate the folks trying to stay positive about this - maybe some of you even mean it - at some point we gotta call this for what it is.

 

Who are the people who think this is a good adaptation of the books?

me.

I'm not "trying to stay positive", I genuinely like the show. Like many others.

10 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

This is worse than Season 1. Most of these plot points aren’t even recognizable from the TGH or TDR. The writers are just making it all up.

Rand is trying to run away from who he is, but his ta'veren keeps getting in the way. "Selene" found him and is seducing him. And he's about to get dragged into cahiriening politics by accident.

Perrin is chasing the horn of valere all the way to the westernmost coast, where he stumbles on the seanchan invasion

Mat was kept a "guest" in the tower against his will for reasons related to the dagger. he's about to make his big escape.

egwene and nynaeve went to the white tower; nynaeve struggles with the block and her attitude.

moiraine went to study with two retired sisters to understand what happens next.

my assessment is that all the main plots are there and clearly recognizable; the details are different, but the main plot is there.

also, do notice how this season is actually going closer to the books than the first one. especially in those plots that strayed the most from book canon.

mat was missing since episode 6, while in the books he was with rand and perrin. here they brought him to the white tower, where he's on track to take the role he had in the third book.
rand was wandering the world alone, instead of being in fal dara with the others. here they brought him to cahirien, with "selene", so that he can take the role he had in the second book.

perrin is getting his elyas plot, which he skipped in season 1

egwene and nynaeve kept solving problems with their untrained channeling, now that capacity has been brought down and they need training after all.

seems to me as they are moving closer to the books, at least as close as they could after season 1.

in the books, elyas was a cool dude. here, he looks a lot more unhinged. I think they did it to increase perrin's fear of his condition

17 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

And the White Tower was content to let her have all this free time instead of battering down her block.  They go on and on about how few girls come to the tower and the lack of power of those that do come.  Yet - let's let her play with the warders.  I don't buy it.

 

She didn't go as far with Liandrin, but she was still rude: "What are you doing here?" And without the Aes Sedai honorific.  If she is rude with these two, she is rude with others (likely).  No trips to Sheriam.

yes, the white tower is clearly a lot less strict with discipline than they were in the books. it's unclear how much less strict they are exactly, my argument is probably not so much that nynaeve can talk to any aes sedai like she did to alanna.

the three months of being strapped every morning to elayne for having servants carry her stuff feels out of place in that context.

4 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I went in hopeful and came out deflated.  CGI and overall visuals were improved over S1.  I understand the need for changes in the adaptation and even like some.  But too many I don't like, understand, or agree with.  The show is definitely not for me.

• Nynaeve training with the warders for 5 months - shouldn't she be working on her block?
• Nynaeve open rudeness to sisters with no punishment

I am not arguing with your general post, only those two details:

- the way I saw it, nynaeve wasn't "training with the warders" for 5 months. she was spending her free time with friends. as for working on her block, she was acting pretty much like in the books on that topic

- nynaeve wasn't openly rude to any sister, but to alanna specifically. alanna has shown many times to be a very friendly and easygoing aes sedai. one with whom you can take more confidence than with others. also, nynaeve saved her life.

talking like that to any other sister would have earned nynaeve a trip to the mistress of novices, but I feel like, with alanna, she could get away with it.

notice how she doesn't go that far with liandrin

13 minutes ago, Samt said:

That says a lot more about you than it does anything else.  I didn't ask about your porn preferences.  

i didn't want to go into it, but if I must: fetish stuff is often grouped together. no, i am not into that specific kink that uses those words. yes, i am into other specific kinks that are occasionally grouped together. I don't judge anyone there.

But I am surprised to see mentions of "whiny beta males" in casual conversation. one thing is the fantasy, another thing is applying it to actual people. even actual fictional people
 

i didn't like the fight on first watching. lan against two myrdraal has good potential - we know in the books he did it - but he went down too fast. he wasn't putting up much of a fight. i get the feeling that every time we see lan doing something, he fails.

then again, i just watched the fight again and i revise that opinion. lan brough down one of them - two if we include the one he took by surprise.

i do not like how myrdraal take their time killing, though. definitely makes them feel like disney movie villains.

alanna misinterpreting the question about juggling two things at once was hilarious! the face of egwene was priceless. i like how alanna is the more human of the aes sedai, the easygoing one who will talk to novices in ways that may not be considered completely appropriate; the one who will make you feel at ease.

overall i liked it, though perhaps least of the three

4 hours ago, Mirefox said:

the whiniest, most passive beta male delivery

...

i read those terms in the descriptions of some very specific fetish videos.

I had no idea some people actually used them outside of the context 🤨

Just now, Samt said:

So you're saying that we're in the slog already?

well....

in the books, at this point we had 2 main plots: the girls in tar valon and the boys after the horn.

in the tv show, we have the girls in tar valon, perrin alone, rand alone, mat alone, moiraine alone. we already split the plot 5 ways.

though it's not actually longer than the books, because having rand and perrin together chasing the horn and then in cahirien, or having rand alone in cahirien and perrin alone after the horn, it doesn't take more time.

regardless, proliferation of viewpoints is a common issue with all large fantasy sagas. if we are here we probably like big sprawling stories; but it doesn't change that they do tend to go slower, and they are more slow the more different people they follow

18 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

 (and you took 3 episodes to set that up?)

consider that with so many split characters, 3 episodes still only gave 10-20 minutes to rand or perrin

it's actually the same problem the books had during the slog. most individual story arcs were fine, if taken individually.

I was surprised that, after S1 ended with the characters in very different positions compared to the books, they managed to bring everyone back on track for their storyline. for all that nothing is exactly like the books, every character is doing more or less what his book equivalent did.

characters are doing good, and the writing is good. I'm liking it a lot so far.

most annoying issue is lan failing to put up a good fight. really, lan needs to shine better.

I watched S2, and I'd say that the changes are much less than you make them. Most things from the books are still there, rearranged into slightly different shapes.

I think i need spoilers for the new episodes for a few days at least?
 

sure, they changed all the details. well, after season 1 ended with mat leaving early because of undisclosed issues and rand presumed dead by the others, they already departed a lot from the books. Actually, I am surprised they managed to put everyone back on track for their personal arcs so smoothly.

Also, the characters are right. Look at nynaeve drinking the filthy water to avoid having to try and overcome her block, and tell me she's not the same in the books. elayne got me with her attitude near the end of episode 3. the other characters also feel right. they are acting very much like their books counterparts. even bayle domon felt right, despite the lack of aged grandmothers

so, the way I see it, it's the same characters having the same general plot with completely different details. that's as close to the books as I ever expected it could be.

and after all they changed in season 1 - which they can't go back and undo - and all those changes will have ripple consequences that cannot be ignored - I don't see how they could have come any closer to the books in this season

that accepted test was brutal.

and it conveied the perfect feeling of the one in the books. i'd say it surpasses its book equivalent. in the books we only see her with lan for a few lines. here we actually see them getting a life together.

it's great that she also finds her motivation to leave. while she hates the tower, deep down she knows she must use her power to protect people from the shadow.

also, trying to carry back her daughter. earlier she said that the tower wants her to abandon all the people she loves, and she won't do it. and through all the books, she becomes an aes sedai but she does not abandon the people. just like in her last weave in the aes sedai test later in the books

so here she's bringing her baby back. yes, she's not real, but it's the point that matters.

also regarding revelations that those who didn't read the books will probably get in a few weeks, BIG SPOILER HERE if you didn't read the books,

so sad for uno, he was a great character. good way to go, though. we could always have used more uno.

elayne is perfect. I was unsure at first. but when she reasoned egwene out of doing something stupid, she got me. I always loved elayne because she was more rational. in a saga full of people doing dumb stuff out of pride or mule-headedness, elayne was one of the few who could solve things by talking.

i'm definitely liking it a lot more than S1

37 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

Yeah, I agree. I thought this was a very well written scene. And all of us book readers (I think) picked up on what they could be setting up for (season 5 maybe?) in the future. 
 

I thought it perfectly acted out how Nynaeve feels about Aes Sedai, her issue with the block, her stubbornness, and that she has incredible power. It’s also smart to show this as a clip (they really ought to have done it sooner) because it tells the audience that that aweful season finale scene with Amalisa at least had a purpose going forward beyond “we just want to give the girls a big pay-off moment (as if they hadn’t already done that with Nynaeve multiple times). 

indeed, that scene could salvage the whole thing with amalisa, which wasn't a great moment otherwise.

gives me more hope that season 2 will be better than 1