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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

king of nowhere

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Posts posted by king of nowhere

  1. 7 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

    How on earth do you think the show is Rafe's Ideal world?

    It is, in terms of social values.

    But then, that, a common feature of almodt every work of fiction. We write people of the middle age thinking like modern ones. Renaissance writers who erote about people of the middle age wrote them with renaissance values. People writing of the future always project into the future fantastic technology, but the same culture.

    I would praise the aiel as a nice exception, except they are also a charicature; that much cultural uniformity is not found even in dictatorships

  2. 6 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

    Unfortunately, that shows in the books. ☹️

    I like sanderson style better, and i like androl and his take on magic. Channelers tend to be very inefficient in their use of the power. It makes sense for aes sedai, since they never faced a challenge that would force them to innovate. But in front of total war, people adapt quickly. Even aes sedai.

     

     

    1 hour ago, Samt said:

     RJ created talents as part of the magic system, but, other than Androl, we don’t really see that come into play.  It would have been interesting to see this aspect of the magic system play a bigger role in other parts of the series.

    We see it on a few kinswomen, but yes, not much.

    By the way, i like how the show have most women fight with air. Women are supposed to be weak in fire, and while fire is easier to weaponize, it's better to take the stuff you are strong with and find ways to weaponize it than using a weak fire power

  3. 5 hours ago, Mailman said:

     

    But Liandrin would be constantly channeling anyway so if it draws the black wind then it is already doing so.

    No, she would not. She would not be keeping any shield along the ways, since the girls can't channel while in there.

    She can also shield them again before leaving the ways. It takes a few minutes for machin shin to arrive, so she can put up the shield, open the gate and come out. And the girls can't fight back, because they don't know how to open the waygate.

     

    As i said, the problem is when going out. The moment she comes out of the way, the girls can channel again, and there's no way liandrin can keep all of them shielded together 

  4. 1 hour ago, TheMountain said:

     taken as a whole his comments seem to paint a picture of a person who thinks he can go head-to-head with two great fantasy authors, and that when it comes to what works for film at least, he knows better.

    and you know, he could be absolutely right. because he's a screenwriter, his job is writing stuff for television, which is not the same thing as writing a book.

    writing books and writing scripts are related, though different skills. so while I expect that sanderson can make a passable job at writing a script, and rafe could manage at least somewhat at writing a book, I would be very surprised if rafe didn't knew more about screenwriting than brandon.

    on the other hand, rafe apparently is not good at plot consistency and worldbuilding. most television is not.

     

    which is why I presume that rafe can ultimately write a script better than sanderson (or better than RJ could have), but sanderson can give him tips on worldbuilding and magic. and if the two could work together and leverage their respective strengths, they would produce a better script overall.

  5. 45 minutes ago, Rhaze said:

     compared to a guy who was really just getting his toes wet in the industry

    that was a good description of sanderson 15 years ago, when he was hired to finish the wheel of time. now sanderson has 20 years of experience as a top fantasy writer.  which makes him even more qualified to give advice here.

    especially since his main streenghts - worldbuilding, characters - can be transposed to television, while his one weakness - prose - is made irrelevant by the change in medium

  6. 1 hour ago, Mailman said:

    Something I wanted to recheck people's opinion on now that we have had the last couple of episodes is Liandrin's capture and transport of the 3 to Falme.

     

    Now we are aware that tying of shields is not a skill current channelers possess and Egwene's power level being enough to at least temporarily hold Ishy at bay it drastically damages the whole passage.

     

    1) Liandrin now has to maintain 3 shields at all times from the tower to Falme.

    2) Egwene not long after is able to keep at bay Ishmael for a considerable time, Considering Logain required 2 or 3 strong Aes Sedai (including Liandrin)  to keep him shielded and I would assume he is not as strong as Ishmael that sets the bar for Liandrin to solo shield her as highly unlikely.

    3) Now that we know tying of shields is not possible why did the Seachan not take over the shields when Liandrin was entering the waygate as I cannot see how they would have thought the shields would have remained once she entered the waygate.

     

    Just seems to make the entire scenario completely implausible.

    yes, i noticed that.

    one possibility is that the girls were unconscious until they entered the ways, and in the ways they could not channel to avoid drawing machin shin. but what prevented them from breaking free as soon as they got out?

    at least in the books, while everyone was screaming "she's obviously black!!!!" at the pages, she was still officially a regular aes sedai, with actual power to command novices, and she didn't outwardly drop her cover until the end.

    plot hole.

  7. 3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

    No not an mis quote, a quote he said in an interview to an interviewer who spent 4 days with him.

     

    was that the infamous interview where the interviewer was trying really hard to make sanderson look bad?

    putting aside that that interview already was taking quotes out of context to make them look the worst possible, it was already misquooted in the first place; there is a huge difference between "does not really self edit" and "does not like to self edit". i mean, i really do not like to wake up early in the morning, but you'd need better than that to build a case that i'm skipping work.
     

    Quote

     

    He also has stated he hates re writes and edits, he wants to write the next new thing and not go back over and over his own work, and that leads to sloppy prose. From what people have told me his ideas are great, for me he does a bad job of making me want to read them. 

     

    Look your opinion is that you love his work, that’s great, accept that there are many who don’t, his writing style is def in the YA genre and it suits that. That doesn’t mean only youngsters should read it, Harry Potter was loved by adults as well as children (and no I don’t think that is great writing either, but it is written as a children’s book and as a children’s book it is amazing), and yes he does churn out lots of books, he again admits that himself. 
     

    As for research, Clancy would spend months doing detailed research on his novels, the Jack reacher novels are researched to hilt as well, authors do research for books, the writing can still be disposable. 
     

    I actually think the thread below really explains it better, and it isn’t an attack thread, but makes some great points about how Brandon chooses to ignore subtext, depth and writes very flat relying on his world building and action.

     

    all of that is an attack on prose.

    sure, nobody is disputing that prose is the weak spot of sanderson. is weak prose enough to conclude one is a "bad writer" when he excels at many other things?

     

     

  8. 1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

    I mean Sanderson himself has said in interviews he isn't a very good writer, he is just very prolific, he has admitted his prose can be cringeworthy and just not very good.

    sanderson is very humble. which is how he became a good writer, by always striving for more.

    and I'm quite doubtful he actually said that. I think it must be a case of horribly misquoting out of context, just like people claiming he trashed the wot tv show when he did no such thing.

    that said, prose is generally acknowledged as one of his weak spots. I actually like its utilitarianism and much prefer it to the flowery descriptions of robert jordan, but that's a tangent. you can't get into his books because of the prose, I respect that. but all the stuff about his books being cheap and dumb and not really thought out, that's patently false.

    Quote

    He churns out books at a rate of knots and seems to not really self edit

    that is very wrong. every book he writes goes through half a dozen different reviews. a dozen, for the really big books. he still manages to keep a good pace.

     

    Quote

    a friend of mine explained to me that he writes cheap fantasy fiction that reads like a clancy or jack reacher novel and that is why he likes him, he doesn't ever have to think to deeply about it to enjoy it.

    that is even more wrong. ok, i guess you can read it without thinking too much, but really. first of all, even his smaller books come with extensive worldbuilding. and part of the charm is immersing into the world itself. the stormlight archive is roughly as extensive as wot in terms of having detailed different cultures. smaller books are less detailed, but still, they each present unique cultures.

    And each of that comes with extensive research. he wrote a book with a paraplegic character, he interviewed people with that condition. he wrote a book with a depressed character suffering from ptsd as a result of war, he researched those conditions extensively. and he did such a good job that he got plenty of praise by actual war veterans. he wrote an atheist, he went browsing atheist forums, and once more he got plenty of praise from actual atheists.

    the science matches too. in one book a character gets ahold of a magic metal; he runs mundane chemical tests on it, as a chemist I can confirm he did an excellent job. he has all kinds of weird planets and the physics always checks, and where it does not check it is explicitly mentioned to be fueled by magic.

    His books are also littered with hints and easter eggs that most people never find out unless they go ask in the forums.

    and of course, the magic systems match. he starts with some principles, and he keeps to those. forget all that crap about character power levels being inconsistent.

     

    So no, the idea that sanderson churns out cheap, light, thoughtless escapism without any depth, meant to be read and forgotten can't be furthest from the truth. Your friend must have the wrong guy.

  9. 1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

    Yes, he never trashed the show but clearly many things he likes and many are not satisfactory for him (and for a part of the fan-base).

     

    why some people can't understand a nuanced analysis and try to categorize everything in terms of hate or love?

    1 hour ago, Scarloc99 said:

    50 shades sold millions of books, was that good writing? As did the twilight series it was based on, You like his work, I know many many people who like me don’t, someone can be a popular author and not a great writer. I generally don’t take book sales as a general view of skill.

    but how do you define a good writer? based solely on your own opinion, if you don't like him he's bad?

    brandon is praised by critics. he sells a lot. his plots are strong. any objective measure goes in his favor.

    you bring 50 shades as counterpoint, but that wasn't a fantasy book - different sales. it relied heavily on fanservice, and was mostly panned by critics. twilight was mostly aiming at one target demographics - I did specify sanderson is popular across all democraphycs specifically because I was anticipating a twilight comparison -, it also relied heavily on a different kind of fanservice, and it also had many poor reviews. it had plot holes and other things that are general hallmark of bad writing. it's clearly not the same thing.

    plus, those authors didn't write dozens of other books. they were authors who had one successful idea, while sanderson has a half dozen successful sagas.

     

    so, sanderson is objectively a good writer. that has got nothing to do with any individual reader liking or disliking him.

  10. 3 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

    I think Sanderson thinks he wants to stay "relevant" in regards to WOT, and has decided that being the opposing voice to the show is the best way to sell more of his own books. I also think, before he goes questioning other peoples writing he should really look at his own. I personally do not rate him as a writer

    i see, you don't like sanderson so you don't like anything he does. and you ascribe the worst motivations to him.

    seriously, he's sold tens of millions of books. do you really think he would need to hijack a commentary on a tv show to try and win some popularity? the man has a lot of integrity anyway - or if he doesn't, he bluffs extremely, extremely well.
    finally, while you are free to dislike brandon sanderson, you certainly cannot say that you do not rate him as a writer. he is perhaps the most popular fantasy writer of the moment, and not just in some specific demographics. his general skill is beyond doubt

  11. 38 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

    I also accept my personal dislike for BS writing is coming through a bit here (migh tnot have noticed that lol) is why I removed the pick a lane comment, it was, hasty, :). But I do think that brandon is well aware what things like that watch along will do, and I think he is trying to get clicks and likes from a set of the fans that he knows will go chasing after the dog whistle a bit and get that clip lots of views. 

     

    Please! Sanderson does not need to chase likes on social media like a wannabe influencer. He already has a job, a source of notoriety. More important, he's got more integrity than that.

     

    And in fact, his comments are balanced. He always points out both the good and the bad. Those that are trying to use him to justify extreme opinions clearly are wilfully ignoring half of what he says. 

  12. 22 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

    I tried to watch it, but without a video going in the corner to show what they were seeing, I wasn't going to watch 3 dudes sitting in silence for minutes eating snacks (They were silent when I hopped on), commenting on stuff without reference.

     

    I don't mind a little mystery science theater 3000 every now and again. Sometimes it's fun to just ridicule shows I enjoy.

     

    15 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

    Couldn't get through it. It's like watching paint dry.

    Is there a chance somebody pious put up a summary somewhere?

     

    Anyway, from a few reddit comments i get that there aren't major revelatiobs. 

    What brandon praises as good moments and critics as bad moments are more or less the same that are mostly agreed even between supporters and detractors of the show

  13. 9 hours ago, Gypsum said:

     

    In 14 books, do Robert Jordan's horses ever freeze, then spin and tank off in the opposite direction

    There is one scene where seanchan are attacked by trollocs and the horses go wild. Not much, at least a nod.

    Meanwhile, in the tv show, mashadar turns a horse to dust while the other horse nearby apparently doesn't give a f***

  14. 17 hours ago, movieguru said:

     And being the town's blacksmith at such a young age was unrealistic.

     

    people keep throwing around that "unrealistic" word when they don't like something.

    if we use our own past as a comparison, that's perfectly realistic. perhaps he was the apprentice, then the blacksmith died of a sudden disease leaving him as the sole blacksmith. happened all the time.

    what's unrealistic is girls in their late teens being unmarried. egwene not having a half dozen brothers and sisters.

    except wot is not our past, so we can't use that as a comparison anyway.

    9 hours ago, Rhaze said:

     I think Ingtar's redemption is a huge part of the books. How far is too far gone, can a dark friend be redeemed?

    i disagree. the thing is, that plot never went anywhere. we never see any other darkfriend seeking redemption in the books. no, that one does not count, she was never a dedicated darkfriend who had a change of heart, she always wanted to undermine them.

    sure, jesus rand was a nice moment, but ultimately that subplot could be excised from the books without any issue.

     

    Quote

     It was still good, just not great. On one of the reaction videos, someone made a good point about books like WoT compared to books like ASoIaF. WoT has a complicated and consistent magic system with hard set rules that can be hard for a tv show to not screw up. Where as, books like ASoIaF have magic that no one knows the rules, not even those doing the magic. It is a lot easier to use magic as a plot device when you have no idea what is possible.

    it's best discussed as sanderson's first law: the ability of an author to solve conflicts with magic is directly proportional to how much the public understands said magic.

    in a soft magic system, i.e. one where there are no rules, you can always use magic to complicate life for the characters, becase that creates tension. but if you use it to solve problems, it just comes out of nowhere. it's a deus ex machina. the public loses tension, because they know the problem will be handwaved with someone flicking their fingers and saying "hey, it's magic!".

    in the lord of the rings magic has no defined rules, and the protagonists are all regular people - frodo, aragorn - that have to find mundane ways to solve magical problems.

    in a hard magic system, magic has hard rules. the public understands them, and the author can use them to solve problems in clever ways, just like the gadgets in a james bond movie. magic is just another tool, that can be used entertainingly.

    in the mistborn saga, allomancers can put up complex magical fighting that are entertaining because their moves follow their basic principles.

    of course, if you have a hard magic system, you can't just make up stuff as the plot demands.

     

    I also disagree that it's easier to use soft magic as a plot device. sure, it's easier to use it to create problems. i suppose one could say it's also easy to use it to solve the plot, but it's extremely unsatisfying. one major criticism of the sword of truth saga is that the plot would pile bigger and bigger problems upon the protagonist, only for him to just suddenly magic it all away in the last ten pages. and then forgetting how he did it. why would a reader get invested in the plot, if it's just going to be magicked away with no discernible logic?

     

    unfortunately, hollywood does not seem to value internal consistency too much.

  15. it's a pity that this thread got derailed.

     

    then again, there's not much else to be said, the first post was great and not much to add.

     

    I wonder if using the sword will be even part of rand in the show? I mean, what does change about rand if he never learns the sword? everything he accomplish with the sword, he could do with the power, or could be skipped. even bashere calls him on it, saying learning the sword for him is silly, at best it's a personal pasttime.

    the only time rand actually needs the sword is in far madding. which happens in the slog, and so can be cut entirely even according to show detractors 😛. or, even if it was not cut, he could get lan or aviendha or a team of aiel to do the fighting for him. or he could not learn the sword and still learn aiel martial arts.

    if rand stopped using the sword entirely in this version of the wheel, I don't think the story would suffer in any way.

     

  16. 1 hour ago, Elendir said:

    Reading discussions, I am starting to think, that I am part of very small group of people, who think that Rand channeling was his secondary power. I see his primary power elsewhere.

     

    When Rand traveled and interact with people, he bound them to his cause. Min, Guy with carriage outside Caemlyn, Loial, Elayne, Ingtar and Hurin, Lan who was alofe to him at first, ..., Siswai'amans ... That was his primary power.

     

    TV show Rand, who don't interact with Min, Tom, Loial, Ingtar.... That is his real depowering and it is total so far. And it has its impact on story logick either, because without their relations to Rand, they lack of motivation in show.

    this is a wonderful point.

     

    however, it does not impact the show much, because the bast majority of that "power" is used from book 4 onward.

    we already had subtle hints. rand already has the loialty of the emond fielders. masema looked at him in awe. avienda said car'a'carn. alayne is loial to him through egwene and nynaeve. as for the rest, rand journey is just starting. just like in the books, the first books are about rand accepting his fate as dragon reborn; then, from book 4, rand unites the world.

    and it's worth noting that for all his ta'veren, he had to fight hard to get the various nobles.

     

     

  17. 4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

    I mean, if anyone bothers thinking about the books, Egwene getting this mental strength is a key thing to what happens later to her. Remember, laughing as she is being switched. I imagine that things like, you know limited time, mean that this moment may well replace her Toh scene wth the Aiel, or more likely that will build on this. 

     

    her toh scene with the aiel is one of my favourites in the books. it's a great scene overall, and it's significant in the plot. i think it's very likely it will be included

  18. well, in book one moiraine fights aginor or balthamel, and holds one off for a bit. egwene is stronger than moiraine at this point, and possibly more trained in war channeling. i can easily accept the scene. in both scenes it is clear that the foresaken has the upper hand from the beginning.

     

    just in the same way that if I got in a boxing match with a trained boxer, there's no way I can win, but if I focus on defence I may be able to hold off for half a minute or so.

  19. I understand that fantasy cities in movies are meant to look good, to provide striking visuals, not to be particularly realistic.

    still, would it really kill the production to show some farmland around? so far we had 3 cities shown: tar valon was placed in the middle of mountains, with no single sign of human presence outside of it. fal dara instead was in the desert. and now falme, also desert.

    what is it about a nice green grassland that makes it so unsuitable to settling a major city? are fields of wheat or corn so ugly that the production must eschew them at all cost?

    my poor suspension of disbelied is suffering.

  20. 13 minutes ago, Samt said:

    I’m not sure that the 1.16 billion number is right. Someone wrote it in another thread.  My point was that 15 million reliable viewers is not some sort of drop in the bucket.  GoT had 10 million viewers at its height.  WoT definitely doesn’t have that level of viewership. 
     

    I’m not suggesting that you don’t try to make a show that non-readers can still understand and enjoy.  But a big part of the success or failure of this show will come down to getting book readers to watch and keep watching the show.
     

    I also don’t know how the economics of streaming works.  It’s hard to believe that Amazon is actually making money on this since it’s included in a subscription and there are no ads.  

    netflix supposedly does earn a profit, though it doesn't have that much higher number. and people only pay the subscriptions.

     

    and that's how it was discovered that the whole tv shows industry was actually a face for a giant money laundering scheme 😁

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