It reinforces my point: if you are not familiar with a specific brand, every trailer looks generic.

7 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

-New Spring-

pg. 132

 

“Where her fireball struck, they exploded, decapitating a creature with a ram’s snout and horns, blowing a goat-horned trolloc in two, ripping off legs. She felt no pity. Trollocs took human prisoners only for food.” 
 

I think this isn’t overly described, nevertheless you have creatures getting exploded, decapitated, and bifurcated, with the ripping off of limbs. It’s hard to adapt stuff like this without being graphic. This implies a great deal of blood and is in of itself quite gratuitous. Not to mention the reference of trollocs eating people, and other examples of them finding heads and limbs in cook pots later in the series.

you still have ways to avoid getting too graphic. Use blood and other explosive effects to cover or blur the more grisly details. Don't show the explosion from too close. Show the ripped off legs from the intact part, not the cut out part. A bloody stump is much less graphic than a stump with a broken bone jutting from it and torn strips of muscles and tendons splayed around.

9 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

I think the complete lack of blood creates an atmosphere of inauthenticity and level of censorship reserved for children’s movies such as Narnia. It might not be the largest aspect which lends to the YA feel, but I think it is one of the many referenced by your quote.

there is no complete lack of blood.

1:43 in the trailer, lan is skewering a trolloc and there's blood aplenty. Much more than i'd expect in real life for that kind of wound, actually

gore and nudity work when they make sense in the story. When the story goes out of its way to show them, then it becomes gratuitous fanservice, and it's bad.

the argument about the ethnicities being mixed in the age of legends is a good one. What would happen if we mixed up everyone, and then we split up again? Normal evolution suggests that populations left isolated would gradually grow different until they become different races, then different species. But how much time would it take? And how much would those populations need to be isolated? I'd like to talk to a biologist about it. As good as anything else, under the "they're not giving us new material and we're bored" premise.

there's also the argument of how mixed was the population in the age of legends. The sea folk are all black, deep subsaharian africa black, this strongly implies that the people escaping on ships during the AoL were black.

We also know that there's genetic difference in the populations because some people are taller and some are shorter, sometimes to dramatic degrees. And it's not caused by different nutrition, even the cahirienin nobles are much shorter than the aiel.

Please, release some more material, we are really stretching our conversations!

got this idea from another thread, but...

perrin does not lose his whole family during the second trolloc scouring of the two rivers. rather, his aunt Jessica Fletcher/Aybara comes to visit on winternight, and since then a member of the aybara family dies in mysterious circumstances  every episode. In the first, layla aybara (whoever she turns out to be) is murdered and the suspects fall on narg, but jessica discovers the fault is actually of another cousin that took the chance to avenge a long-forgotten slight and blame it on the trollocs.

14 hours ago, Rose said:

Yeah it just seems repetitive to me, so I was trying to think why they'd give him a wife and kill her off in a Trolloc attack if something very similar is going to happen later. And it made me think maybe they're cutting the later plot line but they still want him to have that wound and that's why they're adding the wife. All speculation of course, I really hope they just don't do any of it.

yes, i also think it could become repetitive if he lost family too often. If perrin loses family members too often, I'm already picturing memes of aunt jessica fletcher/aybara coming to visit...

13 hours ago, Rose said:

Another thing I'm worried about is that if they make this change where he was already married and lost his wife to the Trolloc attack, it might mean they're cutting the later attack on the Two Rivers and him losing his family, which is a pretty huge deal.

in the second trolloc attack he lost parents, brothers, cousins, assorted siblings.

that remains whether or not he also lost a wife.

1 hour ago, JaimAybara said:

Another thing that leads me to believe in this alteration is I read that it was claimed Marcus brought them to tears in his audition, I found that to be an odd statement to make considering he doesn’t lose family until later in the series when he returns to Emond’s Field.

1 hour ago, JaimAybara said:

If his wife dies in the beginning I think they could make Faile following him as a hunter for the horn even more interesting, because he would have a legitimate personal issue for not wanting her coming along due to potential loss, but also highlight Saldaen stubbornness and passion and her ability to fight as well. 

? go ahead, keep adding nails to our coffins

On 9/19/2021 at 10:31 AM, Kalessin said:

And the Great Mortification of the Spirit, when Lanfear discovers that The Dark One is actually The Duck One, Scrooge McDuck, who has been paying to have them remake Randland into a place where he can store all his ill-gotten wealth. They've been mispronouncing his name for over three thousand years!!!

Then the screenwriters get killed by an angry mob of international translators, because there's no way to make that work in any other language

I laughed so hard at it. Fantastic idea!

As far as I understand, Shara as a whole served the dark one. Which is why they were so secretive, they wouldn't want to advertise the thing outside.

And personally, I'd be unhappy if it was cut out entirely. It's a continent as large as Seanchan, and yet it seem to have no impact on the story. It is occasionally mentioned on passing, never serving any plot purpose. What a waste. Those ancient aes sedai may as well have sunk it to the bottom of the ocean.

Just as I'm sad that the books never used the land of the madmen. I would have liked to see it.

so, if i've got this straight, being director requires a lot of preparatory job, deciding how to adapt the script in front of a camera in every detail, and they split the job because it makes things more manageable by the individual.

And movies instead stick to a single director because... because they are much shorter and thus can be handled more easily by a single person?

i actually like the tower more than any other depiction. and i liked it because it makes sense.

the way the tower is described, the internal spaces, the aes sedai quarters, the gardens, the large chambers, it does not reflect well with a tall square tower.

that tower is still very high, it just looks squat because it's so large. but that justifies how they have so many grand halls and special chambers, it gives the tower enough room to fit all that stuff. and the somewhat irregular exterior leaves room for balconies and other amenities on individual rooms.

also the wings, that's the first time i see them in a way that looks good.

the one thing that feels off is that they don't have much in the way of warder training grounds. there should be more free space around the tower

I'll watch the dubbed version. Much as I'm proud of my english proficiency, and i can read english like a native speaker, i have more problems hearing it in a movie. especially with accents and background sound to distract. in the best case, i can understand everything but it requires so much concentration that it distracts from enjoying the movie.

Unfortunately, a lot of the specific terms of the books sound really silly in their italian translation. I am afraid it could be too much, and I may have to actually watch the show in english with subtitles.

anyway, I'll have much greater problems than accents

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Two things.

1. As far as I'm concerned, "Wizards First Rule", is the epitome of trash fantasy. This is primarily because that Author hated the Fantasy genre and it's fans... I'm also like, 75% sure, that he said some unkind things about RJ, while RJ was going to Mayo. So, you know, Screw that guy and the books he rode in on.

 

I disagree on wizard's first rule.

It had a good shot at being the epitome of trash fantasy, but it was surpassed by the rest of the saga. that first book is the only one that's halfway decent. At least the first half is not bad.

Book two is full of wot plagiarism.

subsequent books... i wonder why fantasy is full of vivid rape descriptions. is there some correlation between fantasy and interest for sexual humiliation/violence? because it's not just sex put in as blatant fanservice; no, it's specifically rape and humiliation. in a lot of bad fantasy.

44 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I take this to mean that RJ's unfortunate habit of subjecting his female characters to shame-based punishments like spanking will be erased.

 

except where appropriate. it was a great way to deal with semirhage.

10 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Barney has been cast as the next James Bond and just signed a huge contract 

that would be great, too.

as long as the actor change is not a sign of a toxic working environment.

I have to take the opposite approach and callously hope that it it actually is some healt problem or similar.

Because otherwise the alternative is that there are disgruntlements in the show, and it would be a major red flag if actors are running away from it.

so, ultimately i hope it's some outside factor, not a red flag for the show, but not too serious either.

We know the show had 4 different directors for season 1, each one of them got two episodes. And one of the most recent news is about this Sanaa Hamri being director for the last part of season 2.

i already dropped a question in that news, but i got no answer, so I'm asking here because I'm ignorant on the details of making movies and this genuinely sparked my curiosity:

why do they have so many directors? wouldn't it be better to always have the single one?

even if the director only directs the actors as they enact the script, he's got a lot of power, and he'll leave his imprint in everything. camera angles, lights, all that kind of thing. plus, in a professional environment it generally helps to have a tight-knit team.

hiring multiple directors, giving a couple episodes to each, seems in direct contradiction to all this. the actors always have to learn to work with someone new, and as soon as someone is starting to really fit into the position, he's swapped out.

So why do they do it? how is that supposed to improve the show?

And by the way, what's exactly the difference between director and executive producer?

9 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

I couldn’t care less about a few goofy props of that outdoor living space waygate. It’s the story that matters. Get the story right, and all will be well.

this condenses my major points in the handful of walls of text i dropped in this thread...

18 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Season 1 = Book 1, some of books 2&3 (confirmed)

Season 2 = Books 2&3

Season 3 = Book 4, parts of others

Season 4 = Book 5, parts of others.

Season 5 = Book 6, parts of others

Season 6 = The "slog"(hopefully condensed a lot) and book 11

Season 7 = Most of books 12&13

Season 8 = Book 14 and the rest

 

I have no idea what parts of which books should be mixed within different seasons. Just in a way that makes sense. If they keep with 8 ~60min give or take 10min episodes per season it might be pretty hasty. 10 episodes could be good in some seasons.

 

Maybe books 4&5 could be in the same season. Maybe not.

even though a lot of the slog could be cut, i doubt you can condense 7-11 in a single season; in there there's dumai's wells, the cleansing of saidin, the fall of ebou dar with all that led mat to marrying tuon, the black tower being born and becoming a major world power...

i belive more likely to have 2 seasons for books 4-6, and 2 seasons for 7-11

11 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

You know what I'm confident most people think about when it comes to the fantasy genre?
Dragons, Elves, Orcs, Swords, Sorcery, & Wizards.
*Watches Trailer*
Didn't see any Orcs, Elves, or Dragons.
Saw some monstrously large humanoid creatures. Saw a pale humanoid with no eyes, and I saw some magic effects, with dialogue that says it's skewed heavily in favor of women.

Yep. That's totally as generic as it can possibly be. 100% looks like lord of the rings. /s
 

 

while i love that rendition, i believe it was more accurate 10 years ago. it's still accurate among those that do not watch/read fantasy, but i don't expect those people to watch wot trailers, if they do i don't expect them to comment.

actual fantasy fan, nowadays, are a bit more learned

5 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

Thank you very much for that elaborate straw man.  Let's break it down exactly where and how far you're wrong.

 

Millions of people, perhaps tens of millions, have read through the entire epic 14 book series, from beginning to end.  They recognize the Wheel of Time.  But not in this.  This looks generic because the only thing it has in common with the actual Wheel of Time, which many of them would already be at least somewhat familiar with, are the most generic features of that story.

 

That's blatantly and historically false.  No one was familiar with it before 1977.  And it was aesthetically and iconically distinct from the moment it first hit the theaters.  It certainly didn't look like Star Trek from a decade before, nor did Star Trek look like Battlestar Galactica from that era.  You're looney toons if you think familiarity breeds the recognition of uniqueness.  In fact it's the other way around, familiarity breeds the recognition of what is generic.  What is generic is familiar.  It's what is novel that is always unique.

perhaps. i already stated multiple times that i am rather "tone deaf" when it comes to visual looks. probably i am underestimating stuff here because I don't feel it.

You, on the other hand, look like you are very sensitive to the topic, so perhaps you also are overestimating stuff because you feel it stronger than most.

Quote

You seem to be under the impression that the Wheel of Time is this completely unknown little thing, that nobody has any expectations for it that could color their reactions, but that's very far from true.  There's not a major con anywhere that doesn't have Wheel of Time representation in the cosplayers.  It is consistently on lists of the top ten American fantasy series, up there with Steven King's Dark Tower series and Ann Rice's Vampire Chronicles, and it's also pretty consistently the highest rated series that has yet to have a TV or movie adaptation.  There's not a person in any English speaking market who saw that trailer that's more than two or three degrees of separation from someone who is familiar with the Wheel of Time, and that person will only be able to recognize the Wheel of Time in this because they're told to.  Hence, generic.

again, maybe, maybe not. I could not recognize stuff at first glance, but  mostly because of how quick they were cycling between scenes. i watched the trailer more slowly, stopping the image at every scene change, and it was much more clear.

aside from that, i wouldn't recognize much, but - as i stated - it's because there weren't enough complete scenes there. it's not like i would ever recognize anything from a teaser trailer anyway, unless it was some visual i was already familiar with. Again, it could be because i am less sensitive to this than most people. But again, you are also probably overstating your case, for the opposite reason.
 

Quote

Nor is my assessment merely based on the fact that almost nothing looks like it should.  It's also based on the things they've said to justify some of these changes, and others.  Like not having color-changing cloaks for the Warders because it would cost too much, for a show already spending this much money, as if they don't have access to tech available to any twitch streamer or filter user.  Not being able to visit as many places, as if sets and redressing them weren't a thing.  Like telling book fans to "gird their loins," at the changes they're making.

all speculation.

the vx effects used by twich streamers are nowhere near as good as those required for a movie; unless you are a specialist in the field and you know very well how much it would cost to edit the warder's cloaks for hours of footage, i suggest you leave some room for doubt here.

same for making a good set.

and telling fans to "gird their loins" may very well be aimed at those who expected a scene-by-scene transposition, or close enough.

All your solid data on "why the show is gonna suck" is that they screwed up the props. And I can agree with you on that, they could have stayed more faithful to those little details.

But everything else you have is speculation, heavily tinted by the fact that you already lost faith in the production. You authomatically assume the worst about everything else. You authomatically assume that making color-shifting cloaks would have been dirt cheap, that making up multiple cities in detail (without copy-pasting everything) would also have been dirt cheap, that shifting around some plots and stories (like logain, or putting in elements of new spring while delaying the trakands) was not made for good reasons.

none of that is definite. it may well be that the plot changes will be lauded as being better than the original story. it happened with some elements of the lotr. or it may suck.

What I know for certain is that I cannot tell with certainty if wottv captures "the soul and spine of the story", based on 100 seconds of mostly unrelated snippets. And I don't expect anyone else to be able to either.

But I thank you for trying to explain yourself so soundly to someone disagreeing with you. I got a better appreciation of your point, even though i still disagree and i still think you are letting your prejudices for the visuals color your judgment on everything else.

7 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

You are aware that songs/music videos have significantly less engagement due to massive repeat views, they aren't comparable with trailers.

 

Trailers have a short burst when released, maybe another short burst when a second trailer is released and a final notable increase in views when the movie/series debuts. Outside of this the increase in views is generally too small to really notice.

 

Songs/Music Videos that are popular will be repeatedly viewed by the same large groups people over and over again and can continue growing for years at a significant pace, hence why some like the one you've shown have the appearance of low engagement. When you get to hundreds of millions of views you start running out of unique people to add to the engagement.

 

Small channels have dedicated fans who keep their likes high compared to video views whilst dislikes remain low generally as they're not big enough to attract the attention of too many people who will dislike their videos.

 

As a channel increases in size this ratio begins to skew towards a lower percentage of likes and more new people discover the channel leading to an increase in dislikes.

yeah, we are all basically saying the same things.

but you also have similar troubles comparing in the same category. a small production with a little community of fan that's ignored by the mainstream could be more akin to a small channel, while a trailer for something with millions of fans behave in a different way.

so, indeed if there were more dislikes than likes it would be very worrying. but the numbers are not strong enough to draw ANY kind of conclusions. there are way too many confounding variables and statistical noise