the river is similar, but all the details are wrong; the shore has a different profile and shape, the hills are lower. if they used plitvice as their starting point, they changed it so much that they may as well started from scratch. they may have used it for inspiration, most likely since they did film in croatia.

Actually, sevannah did a really good job of "gaming the system", twisting the technicality of the aiel traditions to her advantage. she also was so successful for a bunch of coincidences, starting with the bleakness and plenty of aiel coming to join the shaido just because they liked the alternatives even less. And surely some of the wise ones who disliked her didn't want to also start a civil war among the shaido at such a wrong time.

And even with all of that, she was losing them. wise ones were quietly trying to undermine her authority, and new potential clan chiefs were being sent to rhuidean. the brotherless were increasingly dissatisfied. sevannah would have eventually fallen, for sure.

that said, i also wouldn't mind seeing her storyline gone. she was just an obstacle to perrin, and little more. Masema could take her place. except that masema also could be removed easily enough.

But wait, let's see what kinds of plots do the other characters have after dumai wells, during the slog...

- mat is stuck in ebou dar

- rand is basically hiding the whole time

- elayne is stuck in the succession, and while i liked that plot, it could be greatly shortened. she spent a whole book just walking to caemlyn

- egwene is playing politics with the other aes sedai, again it could be greatly shortened

- nynaeve was with elayne, mostly doing nothing

seems to me all those storyline could be cut or shortened greatly. this way there's no more the problem of "what do we do with perrin?"

I always imagined the land as completely flat, and much more extensively farmed. but the erinin rolling through low hills actually makes a lot of sense for how the siege of tar valon plays.

we see very little of tar valon itself; from the perspective here, it looks like it's a bit smaller than we're used to, but I'll wait until we get a better view to form any sort of judgment

Oh, I am also answering from the main thread, because i think i do owe you an answer

On 8/27/2021 at 4:53 AM, Fano'Lan Redux said:

You are equating acts that are exponentially different. It is a false equivalency

 

Mat and Tylin's interactions have absolutely nothing to do with any real world movement. Reiterating a false conclusion does not make it true and your appeal to outside authority bears no merit

 

At any point Mat could choose to leave and would not get fired, would not lose his ability to earn a living, would not get blackballed or ostracized or face a more difficult hiring process or any of the myriad atrocities foisted upon women in this country and to a greater degree in many places around the world

 

Morgase. Literally. Had. No. Option. To. End. Her. Rape

 

Belittle my experience all you want. I've traversed the road, survived and thrived

Sorry you took it wrong, but you completely misunderstood me.

How can you accuse me of making a false equivalency when I keep writing that the two things are not equivalent? How can you feel that I "belittle your experience" when I directly stated that what you suffered was worse?

But I dare say that this has absolutely everything to do with real world movements. Wasn't the whole point of the #metoo movement to denounce the abuses made by people (generally men) in a position of power blackmailing/pressuring their subordinates into accepting sex? which is exactly what's happening with mat?

Regarding mat being free to leave, I seem to remember scenes of him being captured and brought back by servants, but maybe i remember wrong? It's been a while since my last reread. But even if I remember that detail wrong, mat spent most of his time in the palace either honor-bound to stay by hiw promises to elayne and nynaeve, or recuperating from his wounds in the seanchan assault

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Example: You got into a horrible accident, and broke your femur. I also got into an accident and broke both my femur and tibia.

Does saying you broke your leg dismiss/minimize my own broken leg?

I like that example.

Because that's the whole argument presented here: that just because there are worse kind of rapes, then mat does not count

9 hours ago, Fano'Lan Redux said:

and that the interactions between them are comparable to what Morgase suffered at the hands of Valda

false dicotomy. just like there are different degrees of murder, and for all of them there can be extenuating and aggravating circumstances, but in all cases someone is killed wrongly. So there are different degrees of rape, with extenuating and aggravating circumstances, but in all cases there is someone forced to have sex against his will.

2 hours ago, Agitel said:

RJ wrote the Mat/Tylin scenario as a humorous role-reversal thing. His editor, and wife, thought it was a good discussion of sexual harassment and rape with comic undertones. She liked it because it dealt with very serious issues in a humorous way. She seemed to think it would be a good way to explain to men/boys what this can be like for women/girls, showing the fear, etc.

Ah, the good old times when you still could publicly tell politically incorrect jokes. That was before people assumed that just because you told a joke, you would condone what happened in the joke.

16 minutes ago, Fano'Lan Redux said:

 

As a childhood rape surivivor, someone has to walk me through this step by freaking step before I accept that as anything close to possible

Oh. I think I see your issue here; you got it worse, and you don't like implicitly putting the two situation on the same level.

Sure, of course what tylin did is a step below taking someone by force. And "rape" used to only refer to taking by force, while now it refers more broadly to taking by coercition.

Still, just because someone could try to fight, and chooses not to, it does not mean it's "ok", and it can easily still be rape in the meaning of "taken by coercition".

I remember, maybe 20 years ago, we had a big fuss in italy because a judge sentenced a rapist not guilty with the motivation "the victim was wearing jeans, and they are very difficult to remove by force. So, if the victim really had wanted to resist, the aggressor would not have been able to get those trousers off of her, and so she was consensual". There was a really, really big scandal around it, and I'm pretty sure the sentence was revised.

what you are claiming for mat is very similar: that if he had really wanted, if he could be willing to put his life in danger from a knife-wielding nut and her servants, then he could have resisted.

There's also the whole "me too" movement, about women basically blackmailed into having sex with their bosses if they wanted to keep the job, or to avoid mobbing. that's way less extreme than what was done to you, and even a fair bit less than what was done to mat, since they participated willingly and they could choose to get fired and hope to find another job. But still, we all agree what was done to them wasn't "ok", by any means.

The "he liked it afterward" argument also doesn't hold. I've seen an event with some women victims of rape holding signs with the justifications of their rapists, and the most common one was along the lines of "you'll like it afterward". And no, they were wrong.

49 minutes ago, Fano'Lan Redux said:

"Oh, you have to get your food from the city and not from the palace's cook" does not come close. At all. Ever

It's more like "you could be stabbed, or maybe sold as a slave. And maybe the queen is bluffing and she wouldn't really do it, but you're not sure, and she has legal autority". Just because tylin put down the knife it doesn't mean she would not use it later, and tuon did offer to buy him as slave.

You can try to find a different word for mat and tylin, but really, you can't argue that what tylin did was "ok", not unless you want to implicitly undermine all the major feminist battles in the last decade.

P.S. I have no problems with mat being taken by the queen with... questionable consent. I accept that the world is not perfect, that bad things happen, and that there are bad people. I can read about mat being taken by an aggressive queen who won't take no as an answer, just like I can read about perrin losing family to the trollocs, as something bad that happens to the character. I can even accept that tylin is not evil, she just comes from a very odd culture.

What actually irks me about that storyline is that nynaeve and elayne react like it's mat's fault. that's real unfair, and from my perspective, it hurts much more.

It's like, I can accept bad things happening, I can accept being hurt by bad people, because it's clearly not my fault, and I keep my "honor". Life knocked me down, I got up, I'm still the same person afterward. But being blamed for a fault is a loss of "honor", it diminishes me on a much deeper level than just being a victim. I'm trying to explain why for me being blamed unjustly is worse than violence, not sure how well I'm doing it, anyway, that's what I really don't like about that storyline.

On a more general level, I hate seeing how unfairly nynaeve and elayne are treating mat, starting from the stone of tear and going all the way to evading him rather than cooperate.

1 hour ago, Fano'Lan Redux said:

He was not forced, he towered over Tylin and could quite easily have physically terminated her advancements at any point.

except she was queen, she was in a country where she could have killed him with little to no repercussions, she had an army of servants that cooperated with her - and wanted mat to be her lover, because it would make her feel better over the seanchan invading - and he came from a culture where using force against a woman - which was required to "physically terminate her advancements" - was a big taboo.

Oh, I almost forgot, she carries a knife, she's competent with it, and she uses it liberally. If holding someone at knifepoint does not count as "forcing", I have no idea what does

it will also be easier for the future of the shows. if this thing is successful, we can expect the show to last for about 10 years. by that time, the main cast will be 30. but only a couple years passed in the story, so you'd have to still pass them as much younger. start by passing the character as a bit older than the actor, and it will be easier to keep up appearances later

8 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

I'm a little concerned there's a ring on Perrin's finger.

 

Little concerned Perrin doesn't have yellow eyes... That's an easy thing to do & it's got to be there; at least eventually. 

 

 

I'm looking at the picture with the best magnification, yet I cannot see perrin's eye color nor can i see his hands well enough to tell if he has a ring. are those really there? maybe the images uploaded on this site are not at the highest quality?

I'd leave some aes sedai politics, enough to have the viewers know that aes sedai are really mostly morons squabbling among themselves, and their whole organization is mostly ineffective against any unified strong enemy (asha'man, seanchan). but yes, it can be greatly shortened

On 8/19/2021 at 2:53 AM, Harldin said:

Lans costume is based on the Korean Hanbok so no not Samurai at all. 

on the down side, most westerners won't be able to recognize the difference between something of chinese, japanese or korean style.

On 8/16/2021 at 6:47 PM, Nuatoma said:

 

Characters:  A general critique I have is that there were just soooo many named characters.  While this gives the books a lot of flavor and I'm sure it's easier to keep track of as books are reread, on first read I thought many times, 'Who dat again?'  When obscure Aes Sedai or noblemen from various cites were listed out I pretty much gave up trying to remember who everybody was.

 

 

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/

this website is the best resource for keeping track of that. you find his name in alphabetical order, and you get their story and previous appearances.

i suppose you could run into spoilers. such as if you look at selene and you get linked to lanfear. but now that you already read the books once, there's no such risk

the wikia is also good for keeping track of details

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/A_beginning

not much of a plot, but things could be shortened if the whole "after using the bowl of winds, elayne &co have to escape the seanchan and end up spending one month walking towards caemlyn" is cut away and they travel to caemlyn directly. Can't open a waygate any closer for the risk of hitting someone? How about opening one on the palace rooftop?

perhaps the settings, channeling, and the combat scenes. those are the parts where movies can really do a better job than writing, that can add to the story even if we show ends up taking questionable choices. I do not normally imagine stuff in my head when reading - descriptions in particular, i tend to forget quickly. having images to associate with everything would make reading better, regardless of everything else.

10 hours ago, DojoToad said:

True that.  I always looked at that storyline as comedy.  But I'm a guy that never had unwanted attention forced on me.  In light of #metoo, I see it differently now.

i'd not even balefire that part for that reason, though it had its cringe moments. but the main reason i'd excise it is that it doesn't add anything to the story. really, what changes about everything if mat never have a story with the queen? they'll have to find some other excuse why he's at the queen palace and he meets tuon, that's all.

nobody yet mentioned mat being forced to become tylin's lover...

49 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

Notice how the mere identification of some of those elements of Min's character that are clearly queer causes a defensive reaction to protest that she's not "really queer," she's just being "practical."

It's another matter entirely.

I would like for our society to stop having prejudices on what constitutes "masculine" or "feminine" traits. isn't that the whole point of the current feminism? equality is set in law, but there are still prejudices on what men should do and women should do, and those prejudices perpetuate discrimination.

Well, if the point is to stop prejudices, then calling someone queer because she does not fit some stereotype of feminity goes completely against that. It perpetuates prejudices. In the past, women were not allowed to do men's jobs, and men were not allowed women's; now they are, but they are called queer if they do? doesn't seem such a huge improvement. if we laber queer someone who goes against gender stereotypes, then we are merely swapping old, outdated prejudices with new, trendy prejudices. It's not what I want to stand for.

And second, just as important, I dislike the current fashion of putting tags on everything.

When I was young, some people were bad at math. Some were bad at drawing; now those people are certified as "discalculic" and "disgraphic". Some people were loners, or weird; now they are diagnosed some disturb of the autistic spectrum. Some people were bad; now we say that they come from a bad neighborood and they are in need of help.

And while there are some advantages to do it, and it helps in some instances, I feel like people are stripped of free will. You did not choose to be different. You don't have an identity. Instead, you have a certified medical condition with a complicated name. You are not a good or bad person, you are merely a product of your environment. You did not shape your identity, you were born with it. You are nothing but a deterministic machine.

Again, I don't like where this is going. If you do not conform to the mass, you are no longer an outsider to be ousted; instead, you become a sick person to be helped. This is not acceptance. This merely swaps the crowd's reaction from revulsion to pity.

Furthermore, we are told that we can do whatever we want, become whatever we want. But we are also told that we're not responsible for who we are, that we are a byproduct of our genetics and our environment. Am I the only one to see the glaring contradiction our culture is going through?

I am weird, I like myself weird, I want to be weird, I absolutely do not want someone to start putting tags on my weirdness to fit me into a schematic, simplicistic worldwiew. Especially not tags that I did not embrace myself.

Min is different from most people in her demographic category. She has an individual personality. She is weird. Let her be weird. She does not need someone to put tags on her, to reduce her to some preconceived category. Not unless she herself chooses to embrace those categorizations.

And in all her pows, I don't remember anything that would indicate she does not perceive herself as woman.

Finally, I don't think it's fair to basically accues someone of being a reactionary bigot because they express doubts about a character interpretation.

14 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

RJ's writing was not at all progressive or "woke," even for its time, with regards to sexuality.  He wrote exactly one "queer" character, in Min, who has the blatant hallmarks of queerness in that she prefers to dress like a boy

 

Min is queer?

Preferring to dress like a boy could be the hallmark of queerness, but it's certainly not enough to jump to conclusion. Especially when boy's clothing is more practical, especially for physical activity, and min is an active girl.

unless i misremember, min expresses this sentiment in her pows. not every tomboy is queer, just like not every loner is on the autistic spectrum.

and yes, genderqueer is not represented on the wheel of time before sanderson. At the time, it wasn't an issue that was particularly discussed.

18 hours ago, flinn said:

 

 The problem I have with people who dish on D and D is this... what exactly do they expect?

 

 GRRM completely, 100%, screwed over D and D.

 

 It seems some GoT fans expected D and D to quit tv, spend a few years learning to write novels, become best selling novelists, finish GoT novels for GRRM, then quit being best selling novelists, go back to TV, become producers again, adapt the best selling novels they wrote for GRRM and make a great ending to his series.  Btw, by the time they do all that, the actor playing Bran is 102 years old.

well, nobody expected them to do as good a job of storytelling as GRRM, but as professional storytellers, they were expected to at least do a passable job at it. they awfully failed to even reach that mark.

there is a big difference between "having representation in a story" (something which the story already supports) and "using the story to push a political agenda". For example, discworld books always had underlying progressive themes, and they were great. But in later books, pterry used them more and more heavily, became more and more nuanced, and the quality of the storytelling suffered for it. on the other side of the political spectrum, i can point to the sword of truth as an example of a story that suffers greatly for being heavily laden with right wing propaganda.

generally a story gets too far when characters start making speeches about the social issue when it has no bearing to the story, or when all positive characters/cultures embrace a certain ideal, while everyone not embracing that ideal is bad. at this point it starts becoming a political manifesto, and it ruins the story, even when it's a political manifesto I happen to agree with.

rafe putting so much emphasis on the "diverse" and "inclusive" cast is definitely a yellow flag for a story that may be used too strongly to carry a political agenda. But it's just a yellow flag, because it is not proof that he actually did that. if he's a good storyteller, he won't put politics in front of the story.

17 hours ago, Beidomon said:

3. Make the bad guys actually scary. And competent.

 

i'd argue that the bad guys were very competent, they just had no coordination between them. they fought separately, they fell separately. the good guys also fought separately for a long time, and they managed to get things done only when they cooperated. And it's a major theme of wot, so I'd rather it's kept.

also, the good guys had the patters on their side. how often were they saved by ta'veren luck?

and finally, the last problem of the bad guys was that they could not just kill everyone. though most of them didn't even knew, they needed to break rand will, without killing him. a teribly difficult win condition to achieve

there is no indication either way.

aginor and baltamel had minor roles, so it is fully possible they did not hire anyone important enough for the part. As for ishi, all bets are open. but if they want him to be the main antagonist, they may want to push back his first appearances. i wouldn't bet either way

regarding size and fitting in a basement, one has to consider that an ogier on a horse could pass through a waygate without having to bow.

And yet, it still did fit into a basement.

So, the size could be right.

as for the waygate being decorated, if i recall correctly, the carvings were on the "door". which would disappear upon opening. so, we see the waygate open, no way to know how it would look closed.

Quote

The color of the cast doesn't matter to the people who have commented so far ... If they picked the best actor/actress for the part that is what matters. But a certain look (at least for Rand) is essential to the STORY. 

rand has that look. I'm too lazy to look for the link, but there is a picture posted somewhere of the EF5, and rand stands out. at first i was worried mat would be too white, because the actor is, but he got some tan and is now basically undistinguishable from the others. rand stands out.

Quote

Keywords and Phrases like "Woke Casting" and "Diversity casting for Diversity sake" are often dog whistles* by Conservative Justice Warriors to troll with indignant outrage.

on the other hand, "they turned the story on its head to make a political statement" doesn't exactly roll off of the tongue...

there are perfectly reasonable expression that have been ruined for being used in the wrong context by the wrong people.

54 minutes ago, Ararana24 said:

Haven't posted here in a long long time and had to recreate my account, so my apologies if this has been discussed, but with the show around the corner I've been paying closer attention. Can anyone tell me if this article been debunked?

 

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/02/06/exclusive-amazons-wheel-of-time-features-big-change-to-perrin-aybaras-character/

 

That is umm... errrr... yeah no thanks. I'll be skipping this show. I already had very little faith that any TV or movie adaptation would do any justice encompassing the huge world WoT is, but to make changes like that...

i don't think we have any solid proof either way, but i know of nothing that would corroborate that story. and the way it's written does not make it sound very trustworthy