7 hours ago, Mirefox said:

Hahaha...oh, boy.

 

The black ajah is confirmed and a conspiracy in the White Tower is uncovered because of a quick glance at some shaky handwriting in a ledger?

 

Apparently the best way to get a character to a new location now is simply to knock them out and have them appear there.  No need to provide compelling reasoning, just a blast from the Power or a knock upside the head from a Warder (what?!?).

 

These writers are so amateurish it is mind-boggling.

 

It was also nice to hear Lews Therin referred to as "The Dragon Reborn" again, this time by Moiraine.

 

I'm also wondering why they bothered to recast Mat.

The shaky handwriting indicated there was something odd with it, those of us who have read the books know Verins story

The girls in the books constantly went from trap to trap to trap, so I really liked how easily they got bundled away in Falme, they are out of their depth, nynave is not thinking and Elayne is the voice of reason and they get spotted. As for how they got into teh ways, I really don't care, if you are bothered about the mechanics of transportation fair enough but the girls where knocked out so we can't see it from their POV anyway. 

Finally Matt is barely in TGH so I never expected him to be here much. 

8 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

We don't know within the context of the show what the Forsaken can or cannot do when it comes to Channeling.

 

Most of the arguments in favor of the prevailing fandom Shielded, Not Stilled theory, at least that I have seen, hinge largely on what fans know from the novels and which may or may not be true within the context of the show, which itself has had multiple characters talking about and reacting to Moiraine's situation as if it is permanent, not temporary.

 

 

The show itself has already proven that its writers are not operating by this logic several times over.

 

 

No the show has proven that despite what the writers may say to try and fake out the book fans everything in the show matches the books. AT this moment in time there is nothing to suggest that the Books can not be taken as a source of truth for the lore because there is not a single "Major" (edited to be clearer) thing so far that has not matched the books. 

9 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I believe a Gateway you need to know where you are at.

Skimming you don't need to know either, but you need to be familiar with the area.

 

If she was creative, she could have created a gateway in the air, looking over the area getting a good idea where they were and where they were heading... The Forsaken were smart for their time, but they were also very arrogant. 

That tactic was never known in the Age of Legends, during the last battle Demandredd states that it is yet another skill that the Aes Sedai of this time have figured out that the Age of Legends never knew could be done. 

3 hours ago, Cipher said:

Cool.  Sad that he doesn’t have a bigger role.

 

I fear another near 2 year wait for S3, because of the strikes.  As a critic of the show I enjoyed re-watching S1E1-E3 and S2 has been interesting if not what I really hoped for in WoT on screen.

As far as I am aware most of the writers/cast of WOT are not members of SAG as they are all based in the UK and therefore are not striking. 

1 hour ago, Cipher said:

When I re-read the books Verin as BA seems tacked on at the end of the story.  There were so many times she could have killed the Emond’s Fielders or thwarted their plans, but is actually helping them.  I look for anything (through book 11 right now) and I see nothing of her being evil or working for the Dark.  In my mind I see her as a double agent—was evil, but then decided it was wrong and used it to help the Light.

 

Edit:  I will look up threads in Book forum.  And start one if nothing addresses.  Ignore my response unless you can tie it to OP topic.

Compulsion used on the Aes Sedai prisoners which RJ writes in the book will mean they die within a year or 2 is the biggest and most obvious sign, there are others throughout the books when you re read. I remember as the books were being released lots of discussion on the forum about if she was black or not. 

11 hours ago, Finnssss22 said:

Pretty sure Verin is not Black in the show and will be taking the Cadsuane role.

I also believe Liandrin will be taking over Verin's "background".

When I originally heard that Shohreh Aghdashloo was being cast, I thought for sure she would be Cadsuane but now it's being said that she will actually play Elaida. So unless they're screwing with us, I 100% see the Verin/Cads/Lian switcharoo.

When Liandrin frees Nyn as she was leaving sealed it for me as this was very akin to Verin's extra help she gave Egwene to hunt the Black Sisters in the books.

Well the writers are song there job here, Verin is black, she is doing as she did in the books, working subtly against the black from within. Liandrin absolutely freed Nyn expecting her to quickly get re capture but also hoping she would at least embarrass Suroth and at best out right kill her. That is not how Verin worked at all. 

12 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

"deep down, you are good!"

 

well, more likely, "the dark one will sacrifice you and you will never achieve immortality. really, what were the odds anyway? what kind of a stupid decision it was to become darkfriend for a million-to-one odd?"

and it would actually be true. actually, machin shin spoke truth to rand too. machin shin, the wind of wisdom.

she comes

the speaker of the stump, the bringer of marriages, loial's mother

attend you all, for she comes

 

 

I like the Darkfriends who did it thinking that in their lifetime nothing really would come of it lol. They get the power, the influence wealth whatever it is they wanted and assumed that in the 70 odd years they would be alove they wouldn't actually have to do anything that bad. There is something ironically amusing about that and I hope we get at least one of those in the series. 

 

5 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

That's where it's listed in the X-Ray.

 

Also, Ishy loves pulling people in the Flesh into TAR.

But having a whole bunch of trollocs int here a well, I mean, that opens up a whole host of tactical options that the shadow didn't use in the books, at least until the last couple of books, when suddenly the shadow sent squads of aiel, and ashaman etc into the world of dreams to hang out and do stuff. 

1 hour ago, Samt said:

Oh I hope so.  But given what we have seen and the proclivities of the creators, I suspect that Siuanraine is the gaywashed endgame.  (Remember Rafe wanted to kill off Thom for real).  If Bryne doesn’t have his relationship with Siuan, he’s highly cuttable.  We aren’t getting the book version of 5 captains anyways (bye Agelmar, we hardly knew you).  I doubt Ituralde or Niall makes it either. Davram is only a maybe, I’d say.  Maybe Bryne is included as a very background character, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.  

 

Note also that the creators seem very motivated to either cut, kill off early, or undercut any competent and honorable men from the books.  (Lan, Thom, Agelmar, Uno, Abel).  To Rafe, all masculinity is toxic masculinity.

Where is the quote that Rafe wanted to kill off Thom, that is the first I have heard of that? 

On 9/14/2023 at 11:14 AM, notpropaganda73 said:

While there are non-book readers out there who are able to follow things and taking huge enjoyment out of the show, I do believe the show has struggled to communicate lore in an effective way quite frequently.

 

I think they have communicated lore/viewpoints/world building within the Wheel of Time world super effectively in some areas. Tam talking about the Wheel in episode 1 was excellent, but not really built upon - my girlfriend doesn't really understand that the Lews Therin in that cold open has the same soul as Rand. Ila about the Way of the Leaf, the Whitecloaks introduction, Perrin and Elyas (finally) in S2 - these are all effective communications of people/lore unique to WoT. 

 

But channeling, male vs female channelers, the Power (do they channel the same power?), the Forsaken, the Ways, Padan Fain/the dagger/Shadar Logoth, all of these aspects I feel has not been explored or explained as effectively. Ishy is an excellent villain but the "reveal" of him not being the DO hasn't really worked. I also think they have totally confused things with regards to the Warder bond - the Steppin story I thought effectively communicated the nature of the bond, but the entire Lan arc in this season has totally muddied the waters (at least for my partner). 

 

I think sometimes the show tries to play it much too coy and cute, a nod to the books that we get excited about as readers, but is totally lost on someone without that background. I think they really should have leaned more heavily on Thom Merrilin in S1 with the boys and explaining "the world" a bit more without the source of info being Moiraine. And I think they are missing a trick so far in S2 not using Verin as another source of knowledge as a Brown (and an exciting opportunity with that character...)

 

Anyway, I'm enjoying the show and I definitely think it's a step up for S1 overall so far, but mostly I'm sitting here thinking "it isn't quite as good as it could be". 

It has not been explained that LTT and Rand have the same soul, it will be, when it is important to the story, right now it is not, when Rand starts hearing LTT's voice and seeing him, then it makes sense to explain that more. 

All the other points you say have not been explored, by this point in bok 2 none of it had been explained, mainly because a lot of it RJ had not yet come up with. loial explained the ways in season 1, but i the books no one ever really knows what they are, how they are made or why they are tainted. Shadar Logoth, no one understands it other then to know the danger it is, in the books it is never explained really what created it or how, much of that information comes from the companion resources. 

There has been no reveal that Ishy is not the DO yet, the show is still being ambiguous abotu that because Ishy is being ambiguous, which matches the books because Ishy for a long time was almost convinced he was. 

And the Lan Arc is meant to muddy the waters, it is meant to make people wonder and think and debate what is going on. We are on episode 12, and like i said at this point in the books there was tons of stuff we didn't know about the lore, and a lot of it RJ had not figured out yet. and as for your suggestion that Thom or Verrin should be used to gve exposition dumps, that is the worst possible writing style for a movie or TV show, think of the worst movies and shows and I can guarantee that some of the issues are characters used in the way you are describing as opposed to actually showing the information as part of the story. I agree season 2 is a massive improvement in 1, I also agree that some small tweaks and it could really step up again, but, the material being used right now is the weakest of the series (in my opinion) books 1-3 really are the worst of the series before it kicks off proper in 4. We should by the end of season 2 according to Rafe be most of the way through books 2 and 3 and that means we can then get to the good stuff where the foundation that has been laid can be fleshed out far more fully. 

On 9/14/2023 at 12:05 PM, Gary Again said:

Really excited for the episode! I think we've ended the Selene arc so could be the proper appearance of Lanfear and I think Nynaeve/Liandrin should be pretty interesting, Nynaeve may start pulling someone else's braid lol. If Liandrin is in the ways it would be so cool to hear what Machin Shin has to say to her. 

 

On a related note I really want to hear what Machin Shin said to Loial. Only one of your eyes are as big as a teacup, the other is the size of a saucer. Your mom is looking for you and I told her where you are. She comes.

 

I think Min in the last episode with Ishy was definitely TAR, in the books I think the dark friend social was in TAR and that seems to be an efficient way to do a meeting between a wide array of people. I think Selene was bringing Rand into TAR because it's easier to manipulate him there but not sure on that. I know she did that in the books and people are wondering what she was channeling so I think it could be pulling them into TAR but we'll see. I think that may be one of the things on rewatch is they may use those quick cuts to show that scenes we thought happened in the real world happened in TAR but I haven't rewatched yet and haven't been particularly paying attention to this. 

It makes no sense for the social to be in TAR because of the scene with the trollocs, and the girl was there. 
 

On 9/14/2023 at 11:29 AM, nsmallw said:

I've seen folks describe scenes in season two that are supposed to be in Tel'aran'rhiod but i can't recall them. Lol.  Can anyone give specific examples in season two. Thanks. 

The only 1 that is for sure is the Ishy Min one in episode 4. Rands bad dreams where also probably in Tar. 

29 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

I do not understand where your faith in the writers stems from.  What have they already adequately explained?  The dual, gendered nature of Saidar/Saidin has been butchererd/forgotten/miscommunicated/misunderstood, and it is fundamental to the story.  Liandrin gets it wrong; the writers even created a prime opportunity for themselves to explain it when they had Rand and Moiraine talking and they couldn't even manage to explain it. 

 

The warder bond is clearly confusing as we don't understand fully what is going on with Lan and Moiraine.

 

How about the Whitecloaks disdain for Aes Sedai, even though Bornhold (maybe?) sold MOiraine ot find an Aes Sedai for healing?

 

All I'm saying is that the worldbuilding has been vague and inconsistent.  If you want to test it, ask your non-reader friends what Saidar is.  Ask them what the taint is and what causes it (because the show has implied multiple times now that men cause it when they channel).

 

Again, I'm separating this from fidelity to the book, but I want consistency within the medium and I still haven't seen it, which has led to confusion for many.

And yet my wife, who has never read the books and has had nothing explained to her understands everything that is happening on the screen, she gets that there are 2 halves to the source, male and female, and that the Male half is tainted, she doesn't know why, because the characters don't know why, which actually makes sense, why would anyone really understand why the male half is tainted, everyone involved died a long time ago and he men that where involved where the first to go mad. I imagine that will be explained in the flashback scenes when it becomes relevant, which is not right now in the show. It makes sense that Aes Sedai might think that it is Men themselves that taint the male half, it makes sense that the viewers are led to believe that fact, up until the moment that Rand discovers that no, the taint was done by the dark lord and so can be reversed. At that point the cause can be explained and linked to the solution. Until then all viewers need to know is that Male Channellers go mad. Why would Liandrin suddenly go into some mass explanation about the 100 companions and the backlash of the dark lord, why and how would the Aes Sedai of the white tower know about that, it makes far more sense that the Shadow, under the direction of Ishy, would have ensured that everyone believed that Men tainted the power in order to make sure no one ever tried to fix it. 

The Bond, again, the ambiguity is part of the story, the viewer should not have more information then the characters in this kind of story, the details of the bond have been explained, we know that if an Aes Sedai dies the warder is affected in a major way, we know the bond can be masked, we know that when not masked it allows a warder to sense where their Aes Sedai is, that information is being drip fed in bit by bit and used to drive the story forward, as opposed to just being an exposition dump. That is good storytelling. Again my wife, never read the books, understands exactly that, as do other friends of mine. 

Whitecloaks we saw in season 1 they hate channellers, I mean the collection of rings, the treatment of Egwene, I am convinced that Bornhold was using that as a ruse to try and weed out an aes sedai or 2. 

The world building is different, because putting something o the screen requires different storytelling, you show not tell. Season 1 had far far to much telling, far to much exposition. Season 2 has struck the balance much much better and we are seeing the rules of the world take effect in front of us, and, in the style of RJ, the main characters are also learing that what they thought they knew about the rules was wrong. 

No non book viewers are not 100% aware of all the stuff we as book readers know, but they really shouldn't be, you are asking the wrong questions if you are asking viewers to explain something not explained then yes they will be confused, instead let them just enjoy it, and, if something has not yet been explained i the show then tell them, as I do, to WAFO. 

3 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

I am convinced that Lan is deliberately acting dumb to Allana and her boys. 

I believe he is intentionally keeping them in the dark because he doesn't entirely trust them. 

So that's why he's so uncommitted when they ask questions or make statements. 

 

I believe he has known Moiraine's mission from the get go and been an active partner. I believe she told him about the foretelling of the DR rebirth by Gitara and always kept him in the know. However, since she Rand's "death",  she's been keeping information from Lan for her own reasons, maybe to keep him "protected" . Thoughts ?

In the books Lan was fully aware of the need to find the Dragon, he was also fully aware of the existence of the Black Ajah, One of the reasons Moiraine and Siuan kept things secret. SO I can see him not divulging anything to anyone about anything. Especially that whatever happened to Moiraine was done by a forsaken. 

1 hour ago, Mirefox said:

It is interesting.  I've watched and listened to a few different podcasts/reviews of the show, a number of which were done in a roundtable format.  To a person, all of the non-book readers have gaping holes in their understanding of the world and had to have them explained by a fellow reviewer.  Things like Ta'veren, the ajahs, etc.  Some of this might be difficult to explain without massive exposition dumps, but they've shown through other scenes that they aren't afraid of that.

 

Separating myself observations from fidelity to the book, they show still has a serious infestation of mediocre-at-best writers and very shaky internal consistency.  I think consistent world building has been an issue from the start and I think it shows with some of the confusion from the non-book readers.

 

There is a lot of information to take in, obviously, and those of us that are fans of the books sometimes take our understanding for granted and think that what isn't made obvious to the lay person should be obvious because we understand it so well.  The writers, though, need to improve on this massively.

 

I haven't watched any of the supplemental shorts and in this context, I don't think anyone should be required to watch additional media to understand concepts presented in a show; the show should stand on its own merits.

I mean the people I know who are watching it are not having there enjoyment reduced because those things have not yet been explained. Right now the TV show has not fully explained all those nuances, and I don't think that is a bad thing because the viewers don't need to know it yet. In the books there are details about the world that we don't really start learning until book 4, the whole Ta'veren and the detail about what the ajahs are is not fully fleshed out and explained until later on. So I am not expecting it all to have been explained by episode 12. 

Oh I agree that it was badly written but then I think much of the last battle wasn't brilliantly written, in fact I think BS gets a lot of leeway and forgivness because he finished the series when his 3 books are not that great as a series end point. Just wasn't sure if you had picked up on the villagers being reinforced by the soldiers because it is just a. couple of sentences buried in the middle of the story, I know I missed it the first time I read the book. 

On 9/13/2023 at 8:44 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

For me it is not that Demandred never learns that Mat is fighting him, it is that Mat does not beat him. As the battle is progressing,

  Hide contents

Demandred is completely coping with Mat, while using balefire to annihilate huge sections of Mat's army (where the books don't quite explain how having whole pike formations crushed the army continues to fight). Mat is trying to get Demandred to bet big on a losing hand while minimizing his own losses on every other hand.

 

The Seanchan come back for a classic will they won't they moment, ignoring that their absence must have increased the morale of the shadow as much as it lowered the morale of the good guys. However the feigned retreat had not caused Demandred to act in any way that helped Mat. The Seanchan should only have returned once Demandred had committed to Mat's ruse. But of course in the 53rd unnecessary duel, Demandred is killed, while still whipping the armies of the light.

 

Then Mat pulls off his trick with the river (I really did not like the villagers from Hinderstap coming back, I mean genius using them as a last stand to make it look like Mat was trying to hold the river, and sow seeds as to why Mat would leave them to die so heartlessly, but in the reveal there is no reason that the band of villagers would then be strong enough to retake the dam, Mat could have sent half the Seanchan army or any other reserves from anywhere in Westlands, a bunch of villagers who weren't enough to hold dam could hardly be expected to be definitely able to re-capture it, which was pretty essential, and the apparent explanation of why is that the defenders could recognise that they were the same people (how would that be so obvious?) and that when they did they would be so shocked (in the Last Battle, no less) that they would let them kill them as opposed to just vapourising them with the One Power. Sounds legit, like the bad guys in the A-Team being so upset about being covered in custard, they forget they were armed with M60 machine guns, every, single, week. But I digress.)

 

And there is no baiting Demandred into a mistake, not least because he is dead. All of Mat's stratagems are not enough and it takes essentially a deus ex machina in the Horn of Valere to win the day. So the whole point of Mat's battle memories, and the meeting of the Shadow's greatest general against the Light's, just fizzles out. Given that the real battle was at Shayol Ghul, it just makes the whole battle, all the deaths, everything seem even more pointless. 

Sorry, I could not quite see anyway of discussing that without exclusively using spoilers. Also, I covered slightly more than I had originally meant to. I think the pain runs deep 😄

 

And seeing as I cannot mention the last battle without saying

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Oh my God! They killed Bela! You bastards!

I won't.

The villagers from hinderstep where reinforced, Matt sent 100 of the red band to the village in the days before the lat battle, volunteers who agreed to go and die in the village so they could then come back and fight the last battle. I imagine that during that time they also spent time training the villagers how to fight in a more organised way. 

1 minute ago, Ralph said:

https://www.wotseries.com/2023/09/09/the-wheel-of-time-season-2-and-season-3-cast-updates/

 

listed all those credited in final four episodes (not reliable), Includes Amaresu and Lews Therin but not Birgitte. 

 

it does seem likely they will have her there, since they had the doll in s1

Might be an un credited role I would imagine it might be a blink and you miss it thing so could just be a view from the back of an extra or stuntwomen. 

17 hours ago, Mirefox said:

There are a lot of ways it can go.  I have some ideas.

 

First, I just have a hunch that they are going to combine Falme and Tear and we will see a battle that culminates in the capture of the Stone.  Piggybacking on that, I think that they will make the Rand/Ishy fight take place on the top of the Stone so that they are visible to all.

 

I don't know how they will do the heroes but I hope they aren't a ghostly fog/mist like the Army of the Dead in the LotR movies.

ahhh that great green fog that insta kills everyone, one of the changes to the books I understand but still really don't like, in the books the army of the dead is used to win the corsair ships that Aragorn then rides to minas tirth, it is said that they win that fight mainly through fear (somehow seeing an army of the dead walk up made he corsairs run away). Jackson decided he needed to make more of that and turned it into a whole battle between Aragorn and the king and then the dead actually killing everyone. really hope they don't do that

I also wonder. Will we see actual figures given that whoever plays the heroes will need to be wiling to come back in season 8? Has Birgitte been cast, this might be a little easter eg reveal we get here, before we then see her in, I guess season 3? appearing in the world of dreams. 

9 hours ago, Wassup said:

I am just trying to imagine how much training, conditioning, and practice it takes to be able to consistently throw massive axes 100+ feet and impale a human in the center of their torso. At times with enough force that the blade protrudes from the other side of their body. 
 

I wonder if they could show a trolloc camp with axes stuck in targets where they have been practicing or having competitions?  Think of the additional world building that could be done with this. 

No training needed, they are just bred that way, and the training is not as organised as you seem to think, basically Trollocs get hungry, if there is no other food source around then Trollocs are also meaty and in that case the weakest are the ones that will get "weeded out". They regularly eat there own dead as well as human prisoners. 

I imagine trolloc "camps" are encampments where 100 go in and finally the gate is opened and there are stood 20-30 surviving tollocs surrounded by bits of trolloc that has been half eaten. 

6 hours ago, Cipher said:

May be she has some forkroot.

Aes Seai have no idea what forkroot is and I think that will be maintained in the series, it makes for a more dramatic scene if someone is caught out by it rather then being force fed it. 

9 hours ago, Samt said:

I like your optimism that Gareth Bryne is in the show, but it would surprise me if he makes an appearance.

One of the great generals that leads the last battle, with a storyline that ends in tragedy, a storyline that leads directly to Matt being given the role he is at the last battle, the whole compulsion plot is key to the dark almost winning and to have that pack an emotional punch the audience needs it to happen to characters they care about. We have Siuan so we will have Gareth because there arcs are so interlinked, and that kind of tragic story is one that TV writers love to write. 

7 hours ago, Mirefox said:

This is pure conjecture, obviously, but I've always thought that whatever is going on with Moiraine, I believe it is being used as a vehicle to get Nyn healing stilling earlier in the story.

 

I also think that when this happens, Lan is going to act like he was just hit by lightning and realize that "she's back," or something like that.

I don't see Nyn learning to heal stilling any quicker the the books at all, I think this is just a mechanic to show that Forsaken can shield this efficiently, it makes them more of a threat to Rand and other channellers, it sets up the jeopardy later on when, for instance, Nyn goes one on one with a Forsaken, or when Egwene takes one on. it demonstrates that where as the Aes Sedai have to maintain a shield as they did against Logain, forsaken do not it is showing a key element of the show moving forward instead of simply telling us in exposition because channellers being shielded throughout the story is a pretty key mechanic all the way to the civil war in the black tower and into the last battle. 

7 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

With mat's escape from the tower At the beginning of season 2, Part of me is worried that he won't be there to beat the crap out of galad  and gawyn.  

I'm sure they'll keep it in, Since it's such an epic moment for mat and a fan favorite.  But with so many changes to the story, I'm worried they'll drop it because it doesn't actually Have any necessary plot elements.  

 

I'm hoping that they have to take the Dagger back, And mat is the only one that can safely hold it, So he's forced to go back with them and be rehealed After holding the dagger for so long.  

So I there is a chance that none of the main characters return to the tower in the way they do in the books, mainly because the books get very repetitive with the back and forth. The Girls may find some way back in order to pass through the arches, but given that it looks like they are travelling from Falme straight into Tear and then book 4 I don't see how they make a whistle stop trip back to do that. 

As a result you will no doubt see versions of scenes you love happening in different locations, as much as you love the 2 brothers being schooled in front of a warder there is no reason that Gareth Bryne can't play the role of the tutor watching the sparing, covering the bet with Mat. This introduces him as a character and lets the audience see him before he is sent away "in disgrace". 

5 hours ago, Cipher said:

This data is from 2017.

56x per year for marrieds and 51x for non-marrieds.  Marrieds use to be 67x per year.  So societal changes seems to influence these numbers.  There use to be a bigger disparity.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/06/numbers

 

”A lot of devoted married people have ‘open’ relationship.”

I would argue being devoted is mutually exclusive to having an open relationship.  I would like to see the data on how long a marriage that is “open” tends to last.

https://www.forhims.co.uk/blog/how-often-do-couples-have-sex

And here a study shows that unmarried couples have more sex then married couples. 

This is also focussed on America where as I am in the UK, and there is a sociatal impact here because the UK is far less religious then the US as a whole. 

being devoted is not mutually exclusive to having an open relationship, as noted above I know couples that have been "open" for 15-20 years and are as stable, happy and devoted to each other now as they where when they met, happily raising families while keeping there "special friends" private and away from the children, at least until they are themselves adults. They are in love and committed to each other while also accepting that each person has needs and desires that the other can't fully satisfy, they would explain that instead of selfishly expecting each other to ignore part of themselves in order to conform to the idea of a "stable monogamous relationship"  they allow each other to explore those aspects of themselves with other people safe and secure in the knowledge that they love each other and not feeling threatened.

I know a poly group of 5 people who have all been in a relationship together between 10 and 7 years (from when the first and last people joined) show no indication of splitting up and have just welcomed there 2nd child, and through them I know there are thousands of couples in the UK that live like this and have done for years, and those are the ones that are "open" about it and attend events and have a presence online. 

These types of relationships are not new, what has happened in the past 15-20 years, at least in the UK, is that society has become more and more accepting allowing people to become more open about things that previously happened behind closed doors. The "swinger scene" has long been much much larger then people realise, both in the UK and America. 50 Shades, as awful as it was as a piece of literature, helped a lot in opening up the conversation. Before that book came out no one talked about it, afterwards I was hearing people in work talk far more openly about the things they where into. 

There is a myth that a stable relationship has to consist of 2 people staying monogamous  if you want statistics, recent studies have shown that as long as all participants are open and honest then open relationships are statistically as likely to be successful as a monogamous one, and in fact non traditional relationships tend to have a far better chance of succeeding because the very nature requires even more open honest discussions and the building of trust to succeed and everyone involved should be understanding of those requirements for it to work. 

https://blog.gitnux.com/do-open-relationships-work-statistics/#:~:text=Research findings have shown that,and consent to the arrangement.

Now getting back and keeping it on topic 
For as badly as it is written Rand at least is open and honest with all 3 women about how he feels and his desire not to hurt any of them, the women all communicate between themselves about the situation and how they are going to navigate it. The statistics suggest there is no reason why the 4 of them cant stay in a poly relationship for many many hundreds of years if that is what they want. There are alot of positives (and a lot of lessons of what not to do) that someone can take from the WOT books, I have long wondered if RJ himself lived an alternate lifestyle in some way because of how much it peppers his work. 

 

1 hour ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Really?? In all seriousness. Is this a proven fact? That’s fascinating if it’s been somehow scientifically studied and proven. Especially considering the subjective nature of classifying marriages in this way narrowing the subject down to “devoted married people”. A lot of devoted married people have open relationships. A lot of devoted married people don’t have sex, at least after some time has passed. 

I decided not to bite on what is just a very wrong statement in so many ways. (the OP's not your's lol) 

9 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

I have enjoyed season two overall. I give it a ranking of 6.5 to 7 out of 10. 

The quality is so much better than season one. The writing, acting, costumes and visuals are much better. I hope they see this improvement as a beginning point and over the next seasons continue to improve in those areas. The plots have been mostly well done so far. My only gripe has been Lan's arc so far. Many people more literate than I have pointed these issues out so I won't go into details beyond to say that I hope they clear up the confusion of the condition of the bond between M and L and what exactly M's channeling issues are. 

I have noted that I'm not happy with all the night battles, feeling like they are trying to hide something but I could be off on this. Overall, I am hopeful that they can hit the landing in the last four episodes. They have a long way to go to develop Perrin, Rand and especially Mat but I'm hopeful by the end of ep 8, I won't have that same bad taste in my mouth that I had after the end of season one. 

It seems to be a trend of TV, particularly fantasy TV that they like to film things in darkness ignoring that many of us don't have the high quality TV's that allow it to be viewed brilliantly. I will say WOT has not so far gone as bad as the battle for winter-fell, which no one could actually see (I mean to be fair I wish that had been the case for all of season 8 lol). I hope that we will get more daytime action throughout WOT.