47 minutes ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Is that action by liandrin a concrete reveal of her book nature in show or is it still supposed to be uncertain what her motives are?

I mean if that isn't Min finding out that Liandrin is working for Ishy def is, she was told by Liandrin that she would meet someone in the attic room of the inn, so she knows that Liandrin is working for Ishy now. 

5 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

Not really. The weather terangreal would be located in fenced off and perhaps warded plots of land like electrical transformers from an earlier age 😉

I don’t think the Sea Folk were exerting any skill at all. That was just the activation sequence. The Sea Folk wind finder just used all the power available to her and put stars of increasing number of points onto the bowl, there was no discussion of her weaving any complex weaves.

In the first book, the weather snaps back with no one doing anything.

And even had the Dark One this time sent the world onto the hockey stick part of change, and this was the equivalent to a ship going off a water fall, enough force can fly that ship in a curve and back onto the river far from the cliff, that’s what the girls did with Nynaeve and Taalen using strong angreal, just those two gals contributed how many female Forsaken equivalent of Saidar? 7? 10? More? The rest of young women contributed 1? 2? Or more? All the older women? 1/2? 1? Getting that amount of Saidar should have been impossible too.
Spoilers from AMoL: As to overwhelming the Dark Ones hold on the weather… later we see local changes be made by Rand humming 💁‍♂️

Trying to find the quote but Robert Jordan confirmed that the Bowl of the Winds was used far beyond it's original purpose because the Sea Folk are so far ahead with weaves to control the weather then anyone in the age of legends ever was. I think you have misunderstood much of this part of the story and where things fit into the wider lore based on information that was provided outside of the books by the author, companion books and other sources. 

1 hour ago, Ralph said:

The trailer shows them in the Ways

I don't watch the trailers or try and guess what might happen so I am going simply from this episode and where it might go. 

9 hours ago, Cipher said:

-I don’t know how to break up quote to respond piece meal.

-Do you agree with every change of the show?  Do you have any criticisms of it?

 

“Randland”

1. Liandrin has been grooming Nynaeve for some unseen purpose.  It is not a stretch for Liandrin to say, “come let us  rescue your friends,” Nynaeve agrees to come. Egwene and Elayne then get attached the way Elayne does in the show.  Liandrin doesn’t need to knock them out show style, but betrays them book style.  Carrying 3 people clandestine is much harder than having them willingly following you.  Show did its way for drama as a hook for next weeks episode.  Contrived.

 

2.  Lan-sigh.  Daniel Henney is a good actor for Lan. I can understand the desire to give his character an arc and more screen time.  But you know what a 14 book epic that is being adapted to 8 TV seasons doesn’t need? Another character to have to show development on—Rand is being diminished for agendas and decisions that have 0 to do with telling the WoT story.  Book Lan is actually a deep character who is mysterious and broken by his past. In Wheel of Rafe he is broken by Moiraine’s loss of the OP and her pushing him away.  Moiraine is now on her own trying to save the world without the OP and literally the best swordsman in the world—makes no sense, she needs Lan more than ever. Contrived.

 

3.  I like your take on Selene, but it is a stretch for a Forsaken to just play house and manage an inn.  May be emotionally for Lanfear she is just trying to recover some normal life that she lost by turning evil. 

4. Ya, we got to show and talk about freaky sex stuff, because of the Aiel sister wife thing.  I would be ok if Rand just jumped from one of his girls to the next and never be married to them at the same time.  That is something I would approve of being changed.  Do people get pregnant in Randland?

 

more later probably

 

 

I mean Elayne is pregnant at the end of the books, we know Avi is going to have 4 children by Rand, we never see anything about Min. Rafe has already confirmed that the poly aspect of the relationship will play a big big part in the show, and that it is going to be more polyamory then polygamy which suggests he will explore the relationships between the women as well as between them and Rand. 

7 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

This comment just made me think of something: the story that Moiraine tells Rand in Episode 1x08 about an Aes Sedai beating her with the One Power in order to get her to channel could possibly have been about Liandrin.

 

It doesn't explain the intimacy that many fans saw in her touching Moiraine's face, but it's still a fascinating notion.

That explains it a lot more, the creepy stroke of a teacher with her favoured, but wayward pupil, I have gone back and rewatched that scene and really don't see anything that suggests they where in a relationship at all, it is to creepy and just a little bit evil. My wife who has never read the books agreed as well when I told her she actually laughed and said that is a stupid suposition it is clear Liandrin and Moiraine have never really liked each other and Liandrin is just creepy as F 

4 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

The principle objection to the end of the Liandrin / 3 girls action in this episode is that it was daft to knock them all out just due to Elaine wanting to tell on them.  Dragging them all the way to Toman Head as prisoners is a silly way to go when at least 2 of them would go willingly and Liandrin can tell them (and be believed because AS cannot lie) that she will return Elaine to the tower later.  Liandrin knows that if Nynave gets angry enough she can overcome Liandrin's shield.  If this is where they introduce forkroot that might be some way to deal with it.

knocking them out was the plan anyway, Ishy may well be there to take them to Tomans head directly, It makes sense, the tunnel only leads out of the tower, they still need to sneak out of the city and it would be impossible to do that without someone reporting them to the tower. Liandrin can't risk them being bundled up and sent back to the tower, she can't risk leading them out of the city herself because then someone would see that she was the one leading them out, Deep in the tunnels below the white tower she can deal with them quietly 100% sure that no one knows they are here. 

6 hours ago, Mailman said:

In the book he was built up as a potential outland lord by a number of small instances all combining to raise his social interest to the nobility. There is no parallel to the shows butchering of this.

 

In the books he is found dressed as a lord with the stunning Selene travelling with him who is also playing a lady at the time at the site of a major project for the King of Cairhein. He is then escorted to the capital by some of the soldiers guarding the project further raising his interest. He then by his nativity and straight forwardness continues to escalate his social status.

 

In the show he is simply a man who snuck into 1 party with a foregate innkeeper stole some wine and burnt 1 invitation and works in an insane asylum. And I would argue the invitation burning was added to the show simply as a nod to the books and not for any other narrative purpose.

 

The location of the cabin matters, Selene has no history, the cabin of her past is a fiction. Can you really see Lanfear spilling where she is really going to anyone but Rand and his knowledge is limited purely to Lanfear, closing the loop. She especially is going to be tight lipped considering she is so close to her goal of regaining her lost love.

Except that the show proves you wrong because Moiraines sister knew was watching him very closely and knew where he was, she told Moiraine over tea, so she had everyone watching him, and she had them watching him because of what he did at the dinner. She came up to him and in so many words told him she and everyone else would now be spying on him. It is there, in the show. If someone is spying on him so fully in the city then it makes sense that they would find out where he has been travelling to outside the city, Lanfer constantly underestimates everyone in the books so it is totally to type that she has no concept of what her playing Rand and trying to get him to become a lord might do to the wider scheme of things, or she knew exactly what she was doing but didn't think through the consequences of putting him so definitively on everyones radar.  

1 hour ago, ForsakenPotato said:

My thoughts on Liandrin were less that she's doing wildly different things than in the books, and more like...the attitude in which she does them? The vibes are so obviously very bad! If you're trying to be sneaky maybe be a little more subtle with the crazy eyes and extreme temper and general provocations.

 

I feel like Nyneave, Min, and Mat, who are among the most distrustful of Aes Sedai generally, would be a little tougher to manipulate than they have been. Although to be fair, Mat and Nyneave are still country bumpkins as previously pointed out. And Min probably already knows she's bad news but just doesn't realize how bad.

Remember an Aes Sedai can't lie, as far as many are aware, so if an Aes Sedai tells you a fact to your face then you believe it. That is such a powerful tool. 

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

Jon from WoTup has leaked a most anticipated casting for season 3.  There have been a lot of discussion whether Elaida would be cut or merged since we have not seen her yet so I am glad we got this news.  The casting is a bit of a surprise for many people who naturally assumed this actor was going to play another role.

 

  Hide contents

Shohreh Aghashloo will be playing Elaida Sedai!

 

 

 

Well that was some brilliant manipulation deserving of Elaida by many people, including Shohreh in convincing the fanbase she would be Cadusane lol 

I always feel that RJ wrote himself into a bit of a culdesac with the power comparisons in the WOT, a culdesac he was never able to write himself out of. We know he amended the scale multiple times as he created more and more channeling characters in the story. I think then publishing it made the situation worse because he had to stick to what was initially a pretty hand wavey system. 

4 hours ago, Cipher said:

Ah I must have been day dreaming during the explanation it was an invented story in the book.  Jordan did not re-explain that it was an invented story, because I have been listening to the books on audio and they don’t clarify that point except may be when it started(?).

It is brought up later on but yes when Siuan and Leane escapes the tower they explain the plan to Logain and Min, 

40 minutes ago, Guire said:

So what is Moraine, Siuan, and Alanna's age range? This might really affect their roles in  Aiel War and Mo and Lan's relationship dynamic.  Also Mo/Siu would have been in a fairly long relationship prior to foretelling that put them on down low.  Would there have been any reason for them to have a hidden relationship before Dragon Mission?

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/ages-of-characters.html

Just found this handy link 

2 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Moiraine is in her 40's in the books. She became Accepted at ~19 years old and Aes Sedai at ~22 years old. She was Accepted during the Aiel War which was ~20 years from book 1

Apologies I don't know where I got into my head she was older then that. Thankyou for fixing it.

28 minutes ago, Cipher said:

Some really good takes from all sides in this thread.

 

I get goose bumps when the action on screen resembles the books.

-Perrin getting mentored 

-Girls getting lured by Liandrin to leave the tower, but would have made more sense the way Jordan wrote it. Why make unnecessary changes?

 

Changes I like:

-Moiraine and her sister

-Logain lined up to be mentor

 

Changes which are bad:

-Lan being neutered from S1E2 on.

-Alanna and her warders get way too much screen time.

-Min’s casting is bad.

-Selene and Rand shacking up is meh, but may be pays off.

-Immortal forsaken— cut off her head and burn all of her body. Moiraine could walk away.

 

Mid Changes:

-Mat is barely there in TGH and so his sidelining is not so bad comparatively.

I actually think this way makes more sense and is better, it shows how manipulative the Dark is, how deep the plans go, Liandrin has been building to this moment long before she "encouraged" Nyn to follow her through a secret path out of the tower, Nyn thinks she has been so clever finding Liandrins secrets, thinks that liandrin is a lot like her so she is taken in by the news about perrin, trusts her because she put her forward for the test, but in reality the whole thing has been built to this moment. She has also avoided any doubt being put on her, in the books all it would have taken was one of the girls to tell another Aes Sedai, let something slip, or alert someone and it was all over, this way the girls have been manipulated into coming up with the plan all by themselves. 

I don't think Lan has been neutered, I think he is on a character arc that he sorely missed in the books, a lot of it happened off screen and we just saw different Lan each time he made an appearance. Lan in book 1 was written to be Aragorn to Moiraines Gandalf, the eye of the world is based off of the fellowship for a number of reasons but thematically and style wise it has always been the odd one out of the books and the main issue with it is that RJ had to change his main characters throughout the rest of the story creating reasons for them to obviously become the characters he wanted to be and not the obvious pastiche versions of the fellowhip of the ring. In the TV show the writers have the benefit of seeing the far more interesting Lan that we get later on in the series, and they have the opportunity to show that transition, it is also clear that they needed to find a reason to do the other thing the books do not do, develop Moiraine as an actual character. In the books she is fairly one dimensional, you never know whats going on in her head, what her plans are or what really her motivations are for each decision she makes, she again is the Gandalf to Rands Frodo and a wizards methods are never to be questioned or debated. Then she is pushed out by Rand and spends alot of time pouting and getting her nose put out before finally bending the knee and then the thing happens. But we never see her character really develop, Matt thinks her and Thom is out of the blue because it is, it is never really hinted at in the books because we never know what Moiraines emotions are. Now that makes for a really dull character in a TV show in the modern era, so we need to give her an arc, especially because we know where her storyline is headed and the TV audience need to be fully invested in her to be shocked by that moment. 

Selen and Rand I will just say is brilliant and I much prefer this version of that story to the one in the books. In the books Lanfer was not in love with Rand, but with the man she was convinced was in his head so it always made her obsession with him feel a bit abstract and hard to fully understand, until the end when finally you understood that LTT was actually in his head and there was a chance he would become LTT (the moment on the mountain). In this version Rand has told her he loves her, the embodiment of the only man she has ever loved has returned that love, meaning she can latch onto that single line and become proper crazy ex girlfriend and have it make sense. LTT abandoned her but this Dragon told her he loves her, and that would not have made sense without the 2 of them forming a proper physical relationship. 

Alanna and the Warders I feel is all going to pay off, for one thing we know at least one of the warders is going to be dead probably in season 3 (Alanna loses a warder at Emonds Field), but I also like the comments and discussions about open relationships, we know that Polygamy is going to be a key aspect of Rands story and according to the rumours Avi and Elayne may well become pillow friends, this all sets up the non book audience to the idea that these types of relationship in Randland, while rare, are acceptable to some and not totally alien. 

I don't see why you don't like Mins casting. I think she is perfect for the role and is playing the role exactly as I pictured it. 

Finally, Forsaken in the book are pretty un killable as well, the only way to kill one properly while the darklord is about is Balefire, Ishy is walking around with his face half decomposed, they are stabbed, shot with arows and burnt by fire and carry on regardless, and when they do die they are given a new body and allowed to carry on. This is a perfect way to show that on screen while not having to recast the actor after every battle. 

2 hours ago, nsmallw said:

I think that if the rumors are true and a certain actress takes on the Cadsuane role then realistically Rosamond can take a "back seat" to acting in the show and just do producer type stuff. They can then expand Cadsuane's arc with that "big name actor" and give her prime billing, and/or hopefully by that point they won't need a big actor to bring in people to watch the show, the EF 5 will be enough. 

people seem to be reading lots into Rosamond becoming a producer, in reality it is standard now days for actors to gain a producer credit, this is done for 2 reasons, it gives them more control over what they and other actors are asked to do in the show/film, but more importantly there is a financial benefit, it guarantees them a bigger cut of any money made long after filming is finished. It rarely comes with any additional responsibilities. 

29 minutes ago, Mailman said:

No it does not.

 

She took him to a party where they stole some wine.

 

Even if they put spies on them which from that interaction i would deem a low chance how would they have been followed up the mountain path for days and even if they were followed how could they have reported the location of the cabin back to Carihein in time for Moiraine to have followed that distance in that space of time. It does not make narrative sense. Remember the cabin is not truly part of Selene's past so it can't be a known location for her.

 

As for the insta respawn no we dont know the rules but Moiraine seems to know that you can't actually kill them.

He burnt the invite and was told that all the houses where looking at him, figuring him out, Moiraine was told by her sister that she knew exactly where he was and what he was doing, meaning they knew where they had headed and who knows who might have tracked them further. In the books we see evidence of houses going to extreme lengths to get any scrap of information they can. I don't care about "known locations for selene", the issue is that Rand has, unintentionally, become a player in the game of houses and as a result the houses will be scrabbling to figure out why a tall man who looks like an Aiel but obv isnt, might suddenly be involved in the game and what role is he playing. Is he really poor, or is it a cover. In the books we see so many instances of Rands very innocent actions being read into and assumptions 20 plots deep being created just because he said hello to someone to be polite. You are ignoring the books here while trying to find reasons why this makes no sense in relation to the books. 

The Foresaken in the books are creatures of legend the stuff of nightmares, they scare even the Aes Sedai so it is in no way a surprise that Moiraine might have some semblance of an idea that simply stabbing one and slitting her throat might not be enough to kill one for good, if anything it feels a very logical assumption to make, and, if Moiraine was wrong and Lanfer was dead then playing it safe and running away is the far wiser option. 

 

On 9/11/2023 at 6:10 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I’m so baffled by the thought that liandrin ever engaged in the necessary act to result in procreation 

The suggestion is that if indeed this is her son that we will find out is was a result of rape, possibly underage, before she came to the tower which would explain her hatred of men. 

On 9/11/2023 at 6:23 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I acknowledge that I’m on my own island here but I’m ok with the forsaken being imprisoned at different locations in the show. Admittedly due to my limited imagination of how that could look on screen. Just gradual awakenings in one location might be harder to pull off on screen than each forsaken being somewhat simultaneously awakened in a unique way and location drawing more emphasis to the specific character. I recognize that the majority of fans have envisioned a well thought out way to focus on the awakenings in a superior way, and I’m here for it, just giving voice to my minority of one.

ps…I’m also ok with the efficient visual portrayal of the nature of the forsaken and their immortality. Ok, I’ve said too much. 

I mean we never even remotely saw the awakenings in the books so who is to say this is not how it happened in RJ's head as well. 

On 9/11/2023 at 6:41 AM, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

I’m clearly on board with going along for the ride that the show has been taking us on…but I do have confusion about how the AS know things so currently and how the mail system is so efficient. How did Alanna know moiraine needed them etc

I think there is a lot of time compression going on here, so what we see and think is taking place over a few days is actually weeks of time. 

But also, it's tar Valon, those really well trained owls are a holdover from before the age of legends 😉 

3 hours ago, Mailman said:

Another disappointing episode.

 

Warders are just nothing compared to the books. The relentless talk about the bond is at a complete overkill level considering the dire state of the worldbuilding across the series considering we are now 50% through the 2nd season.

 

Distance and travel times are just irrelevant, we need to go here then next scene there we are with no recognition of time or distance involved. Alanna was in the tower teaching then had to go to Moiraine, bam shes there, then Moiraine leaves them and bam she is just in Cairhein. 

 

Looks like we are getting insta respawn forsaken. Not really sure how Moiraine followed them to the dagger it feels unlikely that the cabin would be part of any real story from the fake Selene. Making following them incredibly hard.

 

Why are the forsaken randomly imprisoned all over the world with individual seals it made sense in the books that they were trapped near the bore when the one seal was applied and they fell out of time I can see no sense why you would do it in a manner that appears deliberate for each one.

 

Be it realistic or not the size of the wolves makes them look like fairly small dogs, its hard to imagine them attacking in the manner in the books, hell even seeing hopper jump when giving his name to Perrin was very underwhelming that was meant to be an attempt to jump into the sky.

 

The departure from the books accelerates every episode.

We do't know what time scales we are talking about here, or what the timeline is, for me there is no linear storyline here, so the Moiraine Lan stuff has been happening in the past, and the Rand Selene stuff is now, and the 2 storylines are being brought in line. 

Moiraine knowing where Rand is makes perfect sense, and in some ways shows Lanfer being too lax. She showed Rand off to high society and brought him to everyones attention, it makes sense, knowing what we know about the Game of Houses I imagine at least 4 houses instantly put spies on Rand to find out who he is, what he is doing and where he goes. I can imagine as soon as Rand and Selene "slipped away" there where eyes on them tracking where they had gone. If Selene had not taken him to that ball, then no one would care about him and they would not have been found. As for insta respawn we don't know the rules behind this but for me this does match the books, the Foresaken could suffer an immense amount of damage and not "die". 

What world building are you missing? We are seeing the world on the screen, we are learning about the forsaken and seeing the plans being unfolded. We are learning the lore and the rules of the world at the exact same rate as the characters which is how the story is told in the books, the stuff we don't know is the stuff that the characters don't know yet either. 

The wolves, ok so to have "bigger" wolves they need to be CGi'd, which is a money sink I am happy with the show creators not making. Watching it with my wife who has never read the books she loved the wolves and they did what they are mean to do. Hopper jumping, again, it works for what it needs to show, because I would much rather the effects budget be spent on other things then just making the wolves look good. 

We are assuming that the Foresaken are trapped all over the world, this may be the case, or it might be again that the characters do't really understand what is going on. We also never saw in the books how the freeing took place so this does not go against the books at all, because we never saw it. 

28 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

You might not be able to consciously respond in such a situation, but I'm willing to bet that, to an outside observer, your body language would betray your thoughts.

 

I hadn't ever even considered @Scarloc99's interpretation because there's nothing in the scene between Moiraine and Liandrin as presented onscreen that even remotely hints at discomfort on Moiraine's end.

2 things to note here, first Aes Sedai are trained to never show any outward sign of emotion, unless they want to to force some effect. In the books there are moments where Aes Sedai who get emotional (for the death of a warder for instance) are almost shunned by there sisters and left to just get on with it in there own privacy. 

Second, Moiraine is one of the very best at controlling her own emotions, she takes that stoic expression to new hights, so this entire scene I took as showing her character, that she is not intimidated at all, even by an Aes Sedai who the audience has seen has a lot of power (both in the power and politically), Liandrin tried to intimidate her to tell her what she knew and out the boys, and she just shrugged it off as if it was nothing. 

9 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

@Scarloc99 I really don't get how you get intimidation out of that face touch when Moiraine doesn't in any way react negatively to it.

 

 

 

 

She is trying to intimidate, Morraine just no sells it like a badd ass. 

I mean you could argue Matts luck came to play in Shadar Logath, it lead him to finding the dagger, which then ultimately led to Rand curing the taint. 

So we are seeing that Liandrin is Black, so we continue our trend of, despite the writers trying to throw us off, every black character is in fact black. but I do like we are getting to know our evil characters more. I am pretty sure in the books Liandrin was a darkfriend and of the Black Ajah because she liked hurting people and using compulsion, and she liked doing those things because she was evil and so the circle is complete. I like the idea that we might actually get a bit more nuance and explanation as to why these people made the choices they did as opposed to simply "I was evil so it seemed the obvious choice". 

Just now, DigificWriter said:

@Scarloc99 In the conversation with Moiraine where she brings up Jenny, Alanna says "when we were Novices" (emphasis mine).

 

Re: Moiraine and Liandrin, what was your interpretation of the face touch?

 

Because it's not normal behavior for a person to caress another person's face like that, especially without objection, unless there's a previously existing intimacy between them.

 

I mean, it was pretty creepy and typical "bad character threatening" vibes about it, which, given we know Liandrin is a bad character fits into type. It was not an intimate stroke at all. 

I was also just trying to point out that in the tower age has nothing to do with who is friends with who, or who is above who or can command who. It is a pretty key aspect for when they meet other groups of channellers and it is pointed out multiple times that the practice of someone who might have 300 years experience being regularly ignored when she gives advice or suggests a course of action just because she is weaker in the power is just dumb, and we see it, over and over, weak sisters who have very valid and good suggestions being reduced to just pouring the tea, sitting in the corner and not being allowed to say a word even in the heart of the white tower. 

On 9/9/2023 at 6:01 AM, Cipher said:

Because in the books the Reds set him up to be a false dragon, so they had to keep that under wraps. They probably had authority over him—their jurisdiction.  TV—-? Who knows.

No they didn't, I see that Siuan and Liandrin really did do their job well :). 

Siuan spreads the tale of  the Reds setting him up as a false dragon only after she was overthrown and escaped. That is her plan for getting back at the Reds. The Reds never set him up, they never set any male up as a false dragon, the real scandal of the Reds was going out on a murder craze killing any man who it was even hinted at could channel, a plan that was instigated by a mis guided Black Ajah Aes Sedai thinking she was helping the cause by killing off the dragon reborn. 

6 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

I already knew from just general spoilers that Moiraine and Siuan were contemporaries, but the show also made that clear given their romantic relationship and their collaboration on the hunt for the Dragon Reborn.

 

For Show!Alanna, we know that she was a contemporary of Moiraine's (and therefore Siuan's) because of her asking Moiraine about Jenny the Irish Wolfhound, and then again because of the comment she made to Lan in this most recent episode about Moiraine suddenly changing 20 years earlier.

 

I had been basing my assumption about Show!Liandrin being Show!Moiraine's contemporary off of the aforementioned intimate face touch from Season 1 and my general knowledge about the concept of "Pillowfriends", but this most recent episode put the kibosh on that 'contemporaries' theory and so now I'm desperately wanting to know why said moment happened without Moiraine objecting.

You are reading alot into little remarks when Alanna could have spotted a change in Morraine and be 70 years older then her, tower hierarchies and politics are on one hand complicated but on the other very very simple, the main thing that matters is strength in the one power. In the books Elayne becomes Aes Sedai and instantly, because she is stronger in the one power, is able to start commanding, not suggesting, not advising but actually commanding sisters who are 1-200 years older then her. So Assuming that different sisters are "contemporary" just because of how they interact is a massive mistake. The moment an accepted comes to the shawl she is a sister and largely is treated as such from that day forward, there is no "apprenticeship, or proving yourself period" that is what being a novice and accepted is for. 

I also think you read a lot into the Liandrin Moraine scene and walked away misunderstanding what that scene was about. You fixated on the idea of "pillow friends" when no one I know took that from that scene at all.