3 hours ago, Chivalry said:

 

Before Episode 3, I would not have considered Moraine at risk. Now, I'm not so sure. Perhaps Rosamund Pike, who actually has had a nice career, does not want to be tied down to a multi-season show (with pauses of 2 years between seasons).

 

But book Rand was much more attached (at the hip) to Moraine ...TV Rand, not so much (so far). Would he still feel guilt?

 

Was he? Morraine is not in TGH really at all, she basically leaves Rand to get on with it, in Dragon Reborn he spends the whole book trying to get away from her and then book 4 onwards he makes her submit to him in order to let her teach him. He doesn’t really “miss her” until after the thing happens. In a lot of ways it is a definitive toxic relationship with her trying everything she can to get close enough to teach him and him refusing to let her anywhere near him unless she jumps through a load of hoops. 

5 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Sort of a dead end.... is that a pun?
 

(The DF social and the scene with the dead tuatha'an both = 1st episode, so we can't go by episode 1 & episode 2 cast list)

As far as I can tell, the cast list, also doesn't list any of the actors in the DF social, except for Niko & Ishy.

Sorry I had a moment in my head one was episode 1 the other 2, but yes no character listed there, I think you need IMDb premium to see every extra etc listed. What about the actual credits on the show? 

2 hours ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

Just curious what was your first reaction to the fakeout deaths of mat and avi (and others) when Rand is battling rahvin? I remember when I read it the first time how disoriented I felt going from the shock of believing these characters to be dead and then realizing they weren’t. Or was I the only sucker who believed them dead on first read?

It’s been so long since that first read I can’t really remember but I am pretty sure I expected Rand to balefire them back to life, RJ didn’t kill good guys off. 

Just now, Agitel said:

 

I understand the reason, but it is one of my criticisms that season one needed to spend a bit more time with the EFF. And I understand the logic in bringing the political element forward, but unfortunately I feel like it took away from something more important in season one. A lot of this may have been mitigated if the back half of S1 found its stride, but I don't think it did.

I think there are 3 real issues with season 1, as you have already said the production levels where sub par, especially when comparing it to rings of power which came out pretty close to WOT, effects, dialogue, script, acting was all a bit meh and so changes from the book felt worse because they where not delivered well. 

Then there is the run time, it was just a little bit to short, 10 episodes, or a 2 hour episode 1 would have been far better and given a bit more time for it all to breathe. 

But the 3rd issue, and I know this is controversial, is the source material. For me Book 1 stands out from all the rest as the odd one out both in terms of the way it is written how it flows and the way many of the characters are portrayed. RJ specifically wrote a generic fantasy novel based off of lord of the rings and other tropes in order to get it published. It isn't the book he wanted to write, it is the book he needed to write in order to be able to write the books he wanted to. he himself stated that there where things in book one he put in just to get published. he then spends books 3-5 writing himself out of some of those early character choices and decisions. The writers had to create a first season that matches the tone of the later books and so they had to construct a different story based off the original but with it's own feel. I don't think they did a great job, but I do give them props for trying an impossible task. I would say Book 4 is where RJ actually finds his real voice and writes the fantasy story he wanted to write. he takes 3 books to get there because book 1 is so far away from it. 

6 hours ago, Samt said:

Everything could always be better.  As you mentioned, the whole "everyone needs to go on a suicide mission to kill Demandred kind of gets weirdly repetitive."  I also think that BS was a little too reluctant to kill off major characters when it kind of makes sense for them to die (it is the end, anyways).  Lan and Faile both have fakeout deaths and then miraculously survive for what seems to be the sake of a happy ending.  Talmanes also survives after being set up to die heroically.  However, in fairness, RJ also seemed to have an aversion to letting characters die.  

 

It's true that some of the characters feel different when BS writes them.  But I actually like BS Mat better.  There are various times when BS Mat makes me laugh out loud and I never really got that from RJ Mat.  

 

There are lots of loose ends at the end of AMOL, but I think that we have to assume that was always the plan.  Your objections to the dream spike, the Verin reveal, or the creator are not really things that bother me or that I noticed as being weak.  Frankly, I'm not even sure what you mean by bringing the creator into it.  If this is talking about Nakomi, my understanding is that she is not a BS creation.  

Nakomi is a BS creation, pretty sure he admitted it, but he also said somewhere that the Creator talks to Rand twice in his books (although he then says that anyone talking in capitals is always the same person which contradicts that). 

I think it comes after the, what, 15th time of reading the 3 books I think, and trying to be more critical of the writing style, I don't know why but tying the turning off of the dreamspike to the Ashaman being able to escape just felt too contrived, as did setting the dreamspike at Tar Valon at the exact same moment Egwene is having her fight, and simultaneously contriving a reason for gawyn to stay in Andor just a few hours longer because of a stupid letter only to "almost lose his foot" as he runs back. it felt like lazy writing and that he could have achieved the same effect in a much better way. If you look at RJ's writing he builds up tension and emotion without resorting to cheap writing tricks. loose ends are fine, I have no issue with leaving things dangling to never be resolved, this story is not about how they fix the problems created by the last battle. 

The Verin thing has come more and more from thinking about her arc and just how wasted it was by both RJ and BS, for me she is the most fascinating character, someone who has decided to do despicable things, and I imagine in order to prove herself she has had to kill small children, torture animals and worse, because she has weighed up that the pros outweigh the pain and suffering she has and will create. I would love to have seen more of her mind, seen her having moments of doubt, or wondering if the scales had tipped to far the other way, had she waited too long to out the black ajah. There is so much to unpick about her, and it is wasted in a throwaway couple of paragraphs and then she dies and we move swiftly on. She is to my mind potentially the best character in the entire story in terms of what RJ could have done with her in terms of telling a true arc, and therefore the most wasted in terms of what is actually done with her. 

No issue with the fakeout deaths, Perrin deserved a happy ending, and theLan bit makes sense, but like you the endless treadmill of characters marching to there death at Demondredds hand is just a bit silly, if for no other reason then you would think the Sharans would up there personal security of him after the first one gets through lol. I think I just am realising that I don't like BS style of writing and, as I am getting older, am starting to wonder a bit if I will actually read them ever again now. 

2 minutes ago, Samt said:

I created a thread on the book forum a while back about this.  It's a bit odd that the Seanchan are able to talk to the others at all.  Even if they started out with the same language, a thousand years of isolation would probably lead to enough divergence that they wouldn't be able to understand each other.  Consider that Middle English is not really understandable to modern English speakers and was spoken until the late 15th century.  Similar questions apply to the Aiel and Sharans although at least they had some amount of contact with the main areas and thus might have maintained some linguistic links.  

 

It's also not entirely clear to me what the linguistic situation was in the age of legends.  The only languages that we are really shown are the old tongue and whatever everyone is speaking (common/basic/English).   It appears to be the case that most people from the age of legends could speak the old tongue (all the forsaken, LTT, whoever Mat is remembering).  But if the old tongue was the main conversational language in the age of legends, how did everyone learn "common" after the breaking?  And why do the forsaken all speak "common" to each other?  That seems to imply that even in the age of legends everyone was speaking "common."  So then what even is the old tongue?  Was it always "old"?

 

As you said, it's clear that RJ wasn't interested in fleshing out the linguistic situation in Randland.  I think ultimately we just have to take it at face value.  

Ahh but it's the magic you see :). Very few fantasy writers try and write there way around there not being a common language. I think it stems partly from many of them playing TTRPG games in their youth and being used to everyone having "common" as a language followed by then more exotic types. 

Having said that the Seanchan see themselves as superior, so I can see them holding onto there own language much like european invaders enforced there own language on the natives rather then learn the local lingo, hence Portugese in Brazil, Spanish in Mexico and English in America, so I can see the Seanchan refusing to absorb local languages into there own, at least amongst the high born etc. 

On 9/6/2023 at 11:58 AM, JosephBurns said:

 

This is a very fair rebuttal.  I tend to agree with much of what you've said, and I appreciate the idea of understanding that this isn't our ideal/dream adaptation but it's what we have at this time.  

 

I'll push back a little on the time it would take, as I don't believe each book would need to be it's own season.  As Jordan fans we all know there is fat that can be left off.  For example, it wouldn't be hard to imagine condensing books 3, 4 & 5 into one TV season.  I'm sure other condensing would be possible to limit the production time to something more doable.   

 

Ultimately my point is the wholesale changes that are being made.  I must have missed it, or maybe repressed it, from the first season - But when that  person had lost the ability to channel in S2 E1, that's what caused me to have the reaction I had which ended my previous post.  Maybe show a little more care to these characters that we've all grown to love.  

 

That said - You're points were valid enough for me to keep giving it a watch   

3,4 and 5 lol, um no, 4 is an entire season all to itself, and that is cutting out some key stuff. Remember the battle for Emonds field will struggle to be an episode all on it's own, I imagine it will cover 2, unless they choose not to go all GOT on us and just show us the before and after. Rand has several battles in the Aiel Wastes which I really hope we get to see, we have the whole Rhuiden piece, and then the Aiel gathering and showing the dragon tattoos. Oh and Mat in the doorway, then we also have the Girls and all they are doing hunting down the black ajah. 

That person losing the ability to channel makes alot of story telling sense, it keeps her away from the main action (just as she is in the book) and it gives her an actual arc of development, In the books she doesn't really get that so much until right before she goes and does her thing. But no people have to stop sitting and complaining it doesnt match the books page for page, the whole essence of the WOT is there and all the characters are doing what they did in the books, all be it from slightly different reasons, but, and I have said this several times, books 1,2 and 3 are really repetative in terms of story, they characters do the same thing over and over and over again, and that makes for awful TV. Season 1, characters go running away, get split up, find each other again, fall into a trap and barely escape. Season 2 the characters get split up, half go running after a thing, the other half fall into a trap, they all escape by the skin of their teeth, season 3 they all get split up, half the group go chasing after one of the group, who is heading into a trap. The other half are also chasing, and heading into the same trap, they all get out by the skin of their teeth. That is the essence of the story of books 1, 2 and 3 and a TV viewing audience would get very bored at seeing the same thing happen over and over and over again over 2/3 seasons.  So the writers have made the actual story more intresting, and I personally think the overall thread of splitting them all up to have there own individual stories earlier makes for a better story and RJ should have done it in book 2 instead of waiting for book 4. 

On 9/6/2023 at 12:15 PM, Agitel said:

Most of us seem to think Moiraine's just been shielded by Ishamael, perhaps in a way that goes beyond the type of shield she's familiar with. There are some cues for that. Others have speculated she may take Siuan's role later in the series. I personally would be on the former. 

 

Rosamund Pike is their biggest name actor and the lead of the series. She's a producer on the show. And she's a major character in the books. Yet she has very little presence in TGH. It's a little like how they expanded Theon Greyjoy 's arc in one of the GOT seasons because otherwise he'd be off screen the whole time, though there isn't much to show for Moiraine. So they have her dealing with this ability being stolen from her (temporarily, in my mind) for her arc, while she'll still probably end up in the same way she does at the end of TGH. It gives the character a seasonal arc, and allows us to highlight that her grit and determination is there beneath the surface and she's more than just her magical ability.

 

All that said, does that mean I'd have done the same thing if I was writing the show? Not necessarily. But I feel accepting of the judgment calls they're making, and needing to present info in a more concise way, not as luxuriously sprawled out as it could be in the books. And the fact that the quality of the production (so far) is much better than what was there in season resolves one of my biggest issues.

Siuan is far to important to Egwenes arc to remove her, and Moraine cant be put in that teaching role because she doesn't have that experience. We will get the Siuan storyline in some format with her teaching Egwene 

On 9/6/2023 at 1:23 PM, JosephBurns said:

 

This is an interesting theory - I certainty don't hate it.

 

And I agree on the Rosamund Pike point, she was the "star" draw for the show, so it's difficult to follow TGH with her largely absent.  Creating this Ishamael story circumvents that challenge.    

 

I'm glad I jumped on the forums for other perspectives.   

I started a thread where I postulate that the Shield will actually work out in her favour when she gets to Toman Head. In the Great Hunt in a throw away line people seem to forget she tells rand that for the entirety of the story she has been off screen rescuing sisters from the Seanchan, now, if she can't channel then she can't be collared, meaning she can help rescue sisters, possibly more involved in the rescue of the girls. I also can see a certain forsaken, seeing her causing him issues, removing the shield with the intention of collaring her and that backfiring on him some way. 

On 9/6/2023 at 3:14 PM, Agitel said:

Giving an arc to a major character who's missing for a whole book is not uncommon in television adaptations. While I think much of the execution in season one was very rough, including episodes 6-8, I think the Warder plotline in episode 5 is the only one that I think was time better spent elsewhere. I could make a case for some scenes in episode 6, too, but I think if they did the same basic idea with better execution it would be worth it. The Warder plotline is the only one I feel was a bad judgment call.

 

I know the reasons for it, but I don't think it was worth it in the end.

 

But generally speaking, having less runtime is precisely one of the reasons why we're getting original scenes to convey the same information in less time in a coherent way.

 

As for Moiraine, she is present and doing stuff in books three through five. She is literally just not present for most of book two.

The actual Warder bit of that episode was a tiny part in comparison to the really important part, a reason to bring the story to the White Tower and introduce tower politics in season 1. the whole Steppin bit didnt take up much run time at all, maybe 10 mins total if that, and that 10 mins shows the non book audience a key fact about the bond that keeps reoccurring right the way through the story.  

On 9/6/2023 at 5:14 PM, swollymammoth said:

If they had nothing to fear from him, why did the Aes Sedai in the books guard him so closely? Just saying, if the Aes Sedai in the books thought there was reason to guard Logain and the TV show wants to just dump him somewhere random so that he can run into Rand more conveniently, it's on the show to justify that. 

They didn't guard him, they watched him, making sure he didn't try and take his own life. This is in keeping with the 3 oaths, to do nothing that might kill a person unless in defence. by Stilling Logain they give him a death sentence, so they set about watching him trying to keep him healthy and safe from himself. I imagine, had long enough have passed, he would have eventually been allowed to go to a farm somewhere to live out the rest of his days, watched and cared for by a sister who was fascinated by what happens to someone after they are stilled. 

24 minutes ago, Gypsum said:

Arguably, a place as large and as diverse as Randland should have multiple languages, not just accents. But RJ (along with everyone else who isn't Tolkien or also isn't Douglas Adams, who creatively got around this problem with the invention of the Babel fish) is not a linguist, and making everyone incomprehensible to everyone else just adds more complexity and problems to your novel.

 

That said, in a perfect world, more consistency with accents would be pretty awesome but not easy in terms of casting. Lets make everyone from Cairhien sound like they're fae the East End ae Glasgow, everyone from Caemlyn sound like they're from London, everyone from Seanchean sound like they are from Alabama, everyone from the Two Rivers sound like they're from the West Country, everyone from Sheiner sound like they're from Mumbai, everyone from Ebou Dar sound Persian, and so on and so forth. And Aiel? WTF accent do you use for Aiel? Vague BBC British accents seem to be the default, with the odd accent that isn't. You could definitely have more fun with it but I get why the showrunners didn't.

Because it evolved from the age of legends, and I imagine by the time of the age of legends there was a universal language everyone in the world spoke, then it makes sense that everyone is based off the same language. This isn't like Europe where language was developed differently in different areas from scratch. 

But I agree that using the same accent for different areas would make sense, GOT did kind of try this, the north was, well, more generally northern, the south, more southern etc lol. 

1 hour ago, swollymammoth said:

But like, why are they even bothering with the accents? Accents are tied to geography. People in time periods analogous to the one WoT takes place in spent generations living and dying together, insulated from most of the rest of the world, so they developed unique ways of speaking which differentiated them from people from other places. 

 

Given how the showrunners have already spent so many words "refuting" certain other characteristics which develop over time in certain geographical locations and are shared between the peoples of those geographical locations (cough cough), I ask again, why are they even bothering with the accents?

 

Randland may "look" like the modern world, but it sure doesn't sound like it. How are Lithuanians who watch the show supposed to relate to any of the characters if they can't hear themselves in the characters' voices? Emond's Field should have had Chinese accents, British accents, American accents, Russian accents, and Japanese accents at the very least. Instead, all the main characters have British accents. For shame. 

Accents in a region are not linked in anyway to how people look, I live in wales and anyone born here has a welsh accent. Now, there have also been lots of different people coming to wales over centuries. Catherine Zeta Jones has olive skin and black hair which is not celtic at all, but it is welsh, it comes from, amongst other things, the Spanish sailors of 1588 who, when the Spanish Armada was defeated and then swept around the UK, crashed into south Wales and where taken in by the local people who also hated the English. They settled and lived in Wales and brought that medeteranian look, but they all speak welsh. 

It is a debate that has been brought up many times but given the upheaval of the breaking of the world, and the fact that at the time of the breaking I imagine all nations where pretty multicultural anyway, it makes sense that the survivors in fertile lands would be made up of all types of colour and creed. Just like it makes sense that the Aiel, who where the only people to survive in the dessert, would be the only ones in the dessert. 

However, it also makes sense that regional accents would have evolved and developed over time, given how for a long time no one travelled much, these accents would then stick mainly because there is not any real mass migration of people, other then during war time (and even then areas like the 2 rivers avoid the worst of that). 

And I think we leave that debate there feel free to start a thread if you want about that, or find and resurect the one that died a very good death after season 1. 

2 hours ago, Storeebooq said:

Nicely done, thank you for pulling the screencaps and comparing. 

IMO it goes to show they are not the same folk. I am basing that mostly on the fact that the contume designers put a LOT of intention and work into the different clothings, and I haven't seen them show a lot of clothing changes for non-main characters.

 

They might all be Traveling people, since the styles are similar. Or may also be from similar regions & cultures. The wagons + protective dog + style makes me think Padin Fain was attacking Traveling folk (what an a-hole). I'm curious if we will get more info later.  

You should be able to see the full cast list in IMDB for each episode, if the same actress is in both then it is the same character. 

53 minutes ago, Samt said:

  Hide contents

If we're following the books, Liandrin and Sheriam aren't in any of the same hearts, so Liandrin doesn't know Sheriam is black ajah (or vice versa).  

 

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

I think some book fans are letting their knowledge predispose them towards believing that very little of Liandrin's behavior in the first 3 episodes of Season 2 is genuine because I would argue that there's no logical reason for her to have reacted the way that she did to Nynaeve following her if it was something she (Liandrin) wanted to happen, nor is there any logical reason for her to have angrily hurled the water jug against the wall of the Arches chamber if she wasn't genuinely upset about Nynaeve failing and not coming back as expected.

I am happy to come along for the ride but if I am being asked to predict the future of the show then that will be based on the information I have from the books because the show itself right now is not giving much away. It should not be underestimated just how devious and convoluted darkfriend plans can be, especially if masterminded by one of the forsaken. She may have been angry because Nyn’s death impacts her position now in the white tower which impacts plans that are being put in place. It is also interesting given that on that scene, if the books are being followed, there are in fact 2 darkfriends watching over the ceremony so she may have also just been lambasted by someone standing higher then her in the black ajah in being told that Sheriam won’t forget this failure. 

7 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

One Seanchan channeler is  stated to be 8-900 years old, one of the ones the Kin are caring for, and there are I think Aiel who are hinted at being that kind of age. 

11 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I suspect that her son is the wedge that the Black has used to convert her. His existence shames her somehow (maybe the father was a man who could channel?) or the Black have leverage where they've convinced her they will kill him if she brings him for healing.

 

I also think that the Black wanted Nynaeve. That they promised Liandrin to heal her son when she delivers her to Falme. Having "lost" Nyn (unaware that she's back for now), her backup plan is to deliver Egwene. This is the vehicle for getting the wondergirls to Falme.

 

This is an Official Elder Haman Prediction^TM and therefore has no chance of coming true.

I don’t think her son is held over her, I think Liandrin as in the books went to the black of her own accord, but possibly because of the actions leading to her son. Maybe she was raped, or maybe even her own father is the father. That would lead to her hatred of men. 
 

I feel that Liandrin allowing Nyn to see her son was done as a form of manipulation, to make Nyn like and trust her now she is “in on the secret”, Liandrin in the books thinks she is a master manipulator so this would be the kind of thing she would pull off. There is also a part of me still not fully convinced he is her son at all and it is an even deeper ruse, and her talking to him as if he was after Nyn left was purely to maintain the charade in case she came back. 

12 minutes ago, Agitel said:

I don't think we have any confirmed 800-900 year old channelers confirmed in the "present day" in the books, do we? I think 500 is the oldest we've been introduced to. Though I do think 800-900 happened during the Age of Legends.

One Seanchan channeler is 8-900 years old and there are I think Aiel who are hinted at being that kind of age. 

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

Inspired by the reveal of Liandrin having an elderly son and by some things I was reading on Reddit and elsewhere, I wanted to discuss Aes Sedai aging and what it might mean for the personal timelines of characters we care about. I've tagged this thread with both show spoilers and book spoilers because while I'll be sticking solely to the show, I wan to allow others to bring whatever book knows they might possess to bear.

 

Rosamund Pike said in an interview that Show!Moiraine is in her 70s, and it's heavily implied in Season 1 that she, Alanna, Siuan, and Liandrin are  all contemporaries of one another at the Tower and that Moiraine and Liandrin were "Pillowfriends" at some point, which would mean that all four characters would be in their 70s.

 

Assuming that this is all correct, it implies several things:

1) that there's not a standard 'slowed' rate at which Aes Sedai age relative to one another 

2) that Liandrin's son appeared as physically elderly as he did because of an illness that Liandrin can't heal or otherwise have healed, not natural aging 

3) that it was unprecedented for an Aes Sedai in her 50s to attain the Amrylin Seat before Siuan did so (since, IIRC, somebody says something in Season 1 about her (Siuan) being the youngest Amrylin in history)

 

Thoughts?

So Aes Sedai in the books can live to about 300 years old, when Siuan was raised the hall made a conscious decision to raise a young amirylian, she was in her 30’s, because there had been a lot of disruption (3 amirylians in a short space of time). So it was unprecedented but all the candidates the tower looked at had held the shawl for 50 years. 
 

Liandrin in the books is about 30-40 years old I believe so they have aged her significantly here, my guess would be she is about 70-80, women in the tower become aes sedai after varying amounts of time Moraine and Siuan attained the shawl in a record amount of time so they could have been raised the same time but be much younger then Liandrin. 
 

I don’t think it really matters what he is ill with, but not all aes sedai have the same strength in the same thing, so in the books Egwene has no ability with healing even though she is one of the most powerful channelers in history, so she links to a yellow to give her strength so they can heal. So the illness could be very simple and Liandrin very powerful and she still can’t heal it with the power. 
 

As for the pillow friends, I don’t remember that comment at all, Moraine and Siuan were from almost day one. Liandrin might  have had pillow friends though but in the books she certainly has never been. 
 

So in terms of “slowing” the oath rod really affects that, we will find out later that by binding to an oath on the rod an aes sedai significantly reduces their age, we will meet channelers later in the series who have never sworn on the rod and are 8-900 years old and still going strong, some looking like they are on there hundreads, others looking young and sprightly so there is no exact science to how a women with the power looks as she ages. 
 

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

on the other hand, the alanna of the show is a much more nice person, it would feel wrong for her to bond rand against his will.

then again, they could easily use someone else to do it

Alanna has shown she is happy to shock and embarrass, she has an edge to her, and in her description to Egwene about 3 somes she gives a sense of how she has a selfish side that is about getting what she wants. I can see that person absolutely bonding Rand against his will. But also in the books she feels guilty about it and isn't a bad person. Her loyalty is to Rand not the WT towards the end.  

1 hour ago, Guire said:

Are we getting any outside of show explanations for rules behind the scenes or anywhere in social media.  roughly knowing rules makes it easier for me to stay immersed.  Especially when it feels like rules have changed from book.  

Not yet and I am fine with that, we are discovering the rules at the same time as the characters are. 

Alanna is going to bond Rand, there are so many bits of foreshadowing to the last battle and Nynaeve fighting to keep Alanna alive that they are not going to pay that off. Egwene using herbs at the end of season 1, the emphasis of the bond with the Steppin arc etc. That story is not changing. 

In the books it is explained that the madness in Rand is the soul of LTT existing in the same body, but we also see with the other Ashamen that the madness resolves itself in other ways. Now, it might be that Dragons (False or Real), all have a common element of voices, and that is what makes a false dragon a false dragon, they hear voices telling them that they are. But I hope we see the other madness elements like the boy trying to break the palace apart like building blocks, or the Ashaman who thinks he always sees Fades. Nynaeve healing madness is a major point in the story, especially as it comees at a moment where she is feeling less super sayan about her own healing because the Kin and yellows have taken her teachings and are doing amazing things, and the Ashaman are also making there own healing progress. 

Moraine, yes she absolutely needs to go through the door and the producers and writers should be brave enough to write her off the show for a while, maybe a season, then only show her surviving in the Finn realm when Lanfer is saved from it, but show her weak and have Moridin say something like "she doesn't have long left" 

Then nothing more until the letter is read and we get another flash to her still alive and then can get frustrated at Matt and Thom for not rushing to rescue her sooner. 

With Verin I always felt her character was really underused in the books. For me she is the most interesting character in the entire series. She has done despicable things in order to gain the position and information she has, both amongst the Black Ajah and the wider Dark Friend organisation in general. But through the series we don't get any of that morale quandry within her, we don't get to see her wrestle with workig out if the bad she has done is greater then the good that will come from her completing her work. We don't see her wrestle with working out when the right moment is to oust the organisation. I think RJ was wrong to keep her black ajah status secret and make readers try and figure it out. he should have done that reveal far earlier, and then had the big surprise be when she tells Egwene what she was really doing. That whole scene also, in the TV show, maybe shouldn't happen when Egwene is herself in the middle of a major arc, will she live or won't she. Or if it is then don't immediately let anyone know egwene is going to be ok. It all needs time to breathe a little. 

I really hope the TV show shows you Verin being black as early as possible, maybe even season 2. Have her kill her sister, then throughout the show show everything she does from the perspective of a darkfriend working for the shadow, then when she finally has that moment to do the big reveal have a flashback montage showing all those "evil things" she did from a different perspective showing how they actually helped the light. Really make the Audience feel that emotion from knowing she was a good person, who truly did evil things, for a good reason. 

29 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

so I watched that scene multiple times…it’s another “clever” fake out. If you watch closely she doesn’t actually see Matt stab Rand with the dagger (the face of the person is turned away), she does see Matt lower Rand to the ground. They’re making you think it’s Matt, it’s really Fain. 
 

I’m confident that what they’re doing is showing you that just like with Aes Sedai telling the truth, Min’s viewings aren’t infallible even though they always happen (i.e what she sees isn’t always what she thinks she sees). 

Which matches the books, there are moments in the Dragon Reborn where she thinks that one of her visions has been "beaten" only to then see it come true. 

1 hour ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

regarding the seanchan and how some fans feel that it’s too soon and/or too obvious in the way that the connection of some characters to the dark one is portrayed…in book 2 we see liandrin (who we know by now is a Darkfriend) deliver the girls to suroth…so for me, at least, that element was introduced as early in the books as the show. Yes maybe more subtle, but still present. 

In a book that is POV it is a valid approach not to give the reader more information then the characters have, they get caught out and surprised by schemes that you the reader had no idea where going on in the background. In a TV show this can be a valid approach but used to much and it can become boring, or lose the shock, it is also much harder to give subtle indications of a characters true motive because you usually only get the chance of one or 2 scenes to do it and need to be fully overt to make sure it is caught, as opposed to a book where the author can emphasise those things they want to reader to pick up on. Like Liandrin taking the bottle the camera zoomed in and made sure you def saw it, rather then having her do it in the background and hope everyone saw it. 

So I have no issue with Darkfriends being revealed far earlier,

Ok first of all I would rather have the BS books then not have the series finished at all and in a ranking of other people finishing someones work this is not GOT levels of bad, but, on my last reread of the last 3 books I found myself going over each one twice and realised that for a long time I have convinced myself they are much much better then they actually are. I am not going to get into the Lore problems (I have many) or the issue with how certain characters personality is changed, or they suddenly speak in a way that is alien because that is all down to personal feeling and I have no doubt there will be things I liked that others hated. I am instead just going to focus on how bad his writing is generally. 

Everyone goes on about gawyn, the part of his story that is irritating, BS wrote. he manages to be even worse then RJ at writing relationships, or dealing with emotions and as a result this whole section feels like it is written for a teenage novel rather then an adult piece of fantasy fiction. 
BS relies far too much on cheap dramatic tension and making contrived situations to push the story forward, in all of RJ's writing I don't think he ever had to manufacture a Dream Spike incident to try and add some tension to a scene, and BS does it twice (both times the Spike gets used as a tool to make a battle more tense I cringe a bit at how badly written it is), he also does this in other places, artificially creating a feeling of tension in a really contrived way. 
BS fails to deliver real emotion, Even the Verin scene, which I used to tell myself was really emotional, is really badly handled. We get the reveal about verin, then the second reveal a paragraph later, then the final reveal a few sentences after that with no time given for the reader to process the impact. You add in that he has this event happen while as a reader we are also focused on what is going to happen to Egwene and it just crams far to much into far to small a space. RJ brings genuine tears to my eyes in several moments in the story, BS I just read it all kind of numb. 
In general he seems unable to find organic clear reasons to get characters where he needs them to be, or out of situations he puts them in. 
He brings the "creator" into the story in a way RJ never did, and I doubt ever would have done and never pays it off in anything that could not have worked without him. 

he just is not a very good high fantasy writer, I have tried reading his own books and he is probably the only author where I just decided to give up part way through not because of the story but the writing. 

Now there will be many who disagree, and I don't want to get into debates about canon or what your fav character did or didnt do because that will alwys be up for interpretation and opinion, but when it comes to the mechanics of how you write and construct a story the fact is that Brandon Sanderson was never a good fit for RJ's work because he in no way wrote with the same level of detail, or understood how to create real drama and emotion from the written word. Like I say I am happy he gave it a go and we got the end of the series from him, but in reality he missed on so many levels with the writing style. 

Anyone else agree with me?