Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

[Zander?]

Zander what are your ideas?

 

Step 1- Town it up

Step 2- Lunch all the Wolves

Step 3- Profit

[Darthe]

[V] kat [/v] I dont wanna die

[Pralaya]

Ok, on the TAR vs Stedding argument. I doubt BFG put in mechanics such that town can do additional POE based on whether the NK was in TAR or Stedding. It would make it easy for town unless the scum is buffered with superb powers. We saw that hellian was pretty strong but JS was kind of weak. I am not sure if we should limit to this narrow thinking which could throw us off. 

[Zander?]

[V] kat [/v] I dont wanna die

 

lolololololol

[Shad_]

1. Tiinker town prob, like his train if though, can follow, good presence

2. Nolder dead

3. Kat I think others have made good points om her but I habitually and accidentally skim her so ive little to add of my own beyond that id kill her over me

4. Dice really clean game frm him, responded well to me early on

5. WiFi looks like wifi. I have no idea, but maybe clean

6. Hallia clean, a bit overly aggressive for what I think of as town hally, solid claim though

7. John Snow dead

8. Darthe me

9. Zander/Cass love this slot, tinfoils only and.theyre rare

10. Pral playing solid, louder than old laya

11. Hellian dead

12. Believer why didnt hellian execute you ywsterday? Combined with what ive found to be pretty manipulative play, specifically the rigidity of forcing people to read him (her?) Logically and attempts to refute evrything. It looks defensive and twisty, to be brief

13. Ironeyes liled him from the beginning, I think he has awesome presence and I can follow his thoughts

14. Shad basically the same said above about marsh, sans a bit of tinfoil here as well but thats mostly cleared up at this point

D2 Votecount

 

 

Kat (2): Pral, Zass

 

Believer (2): Dice, Darthe

 

Darthe (3): Believer, Hallia, Tiinker

 

Not Voting (4): Ironeyes, Katiora, Shad_, WiFi

 

 

You have until phase change to decide where to stay the night

[V] kat I dont wanna die

Say what?

[Zander?]

 

1. Tiinker town prob, like his train if though, can follow, good presence

2. Nolder dead

3. Kat I think others have made good points om her but I habitually and accidentally skim her so ive little to add of my own beyond that id kill her over me

4. Dice really clean game frm him, responded well to me early on

5. WiFi looks like wifi. I have no idea, but maybe clean

6. Hallia clean, a bit overly aggressive for what I think of as town hally, solid claim though

7. John Snow dead

8. Darthe me

9. Zander/Cass love this slot, tinfoils only and.theyre rare

10. Pral playing solid, louder than old laya

11. Hellian dead

12. Believer why didnt hellian execute you ywsterday? Combined with what ive found to be pretty manipulative play, specifically the rigidity of forcing people to read him (her?) Logically and attempts to refute evrything. It looks defensive and twisty, to be brief

13. Ironeyes liled him from the beginning, I think he has awesome presence and I can follow his thoughts

14. Shad basically the same said above about marsh, sans a bit of tinfoil here as well but thats mostly cleared up at this point

D2 Votecount

 

 

Kat (2): Pral, Zass

 

Believer (2): Dice, Darthe

 

Darthe (3): Believer, Hallia, Tiinker

 

Not Voting (4): Ironeyes, Katiora, Shad_, WiFi

 

 

You have until phase change to decide where to stay the night

[V] kat I dont wanna die

Say what?

 

 

 

 

[V] kat [/v] I dont wanna die

 

lolololololol

 

 

#MINDMELD???

[Shad_]

If it's Kat and Darthe then lol y'all can concede right now.

[Zander?]

 

If it's Kat and Darthe then lol y'all can concede right now.

 

[Ironeyes]

 

Zander what are your ideas?

 

Step 1- Town it up

Step 2- Lunch all the Wolves

Step 3- Profit

I like this plan

[Zander?]

If we sneak into BFG's house and adjust all her clocks ahead DL will come earlier?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

[Zander?]

 

 

Zander what are your ideas?

 

Step 1- Town it up

Step 2- Lunch all the Wolves

Step 3- Profit

I like this plan

 

 

This is how I live my life brother!!!!!!!

[Shad_]

This was my concern with Darthe N1.

I suss Hellian, Darthe reverses his read on me a bit shortly after. His stated reasons aren't related to my suss. Could be a coincidence:

 

Hellian kind of sketching me out with the pop-in earlier today.

 

yolo intro/early reads

Zander/Cass
Dice
Wifi
Pral
Darthe?
Snow?

I'm not even going to call Halli a mild wolf lean because that feel from me at this stage is as predictable as the sun rising in the east.

If you ask me what made me give Darthe and Snow minuscule town leans I'm going to say it's page 11 and ignore you.

 

Lack of crazy beautiful GOAT brain breaking Wifi posts is a little worrisome atp.

I thought her first post was a good look.

Going to take a lot more than that to have me really trusting she's a villager, but I thought it merited a positive lean.

 

So actually, I don't know if I was right when i said that he was really mod influenced from last game. I saw a ton of references to past games and meta in his ISO, and I do mean a ton, but most of it didn't seem to clearly point to this past game outside of the above two which makes some sense to me.

Tbh, the ISO left me a bit less comfortable with you Shad. You reference so many other games and back up so much of what you say that it almost appeared as if you felt the need to cover your every step. I still have you as slight town I think, but only just so.

 

 

Zander asks if anyone has a good reason to not lynch Hellian or a better option. Darthe suggests Dice. Hadn't mentioned him before, doesn't explain it here, does offer a decent follow-through on this later.

 

 

Anyone yet find a reason Hellian is a villager?

Anyone have a better suggestion?

It's not that I have a better suggestion it's that I have a problem with approaching trying to solve a game from the perspective of " how do we not lose". Bad reason to push a lynch. I'd prefer dice tbh

 

 

Zander moves his vote back to Hellian on p55, p56 Darthe gets a negative ping on ZanderCass. Could be unrelated/coincidence.

 

[v] Hellian [/v]

Darest I say that zander and cass have pinged me a few times? I darest, but I do recognize that it's prob a factor of how many posts they have, or my inherent aversion to chumminess.

 

Wifi starts to drift towards an interest in lynching Hellian, a minute later Darthe notes something suspicious about her. Based on the timing this one could be x-post though.

 

Unless of course Hallia and believer and hellian are all scum together...like in my reads list

Wild adjusted from calling herself town to calling herself town queenie when z mentioned it. That's pretty self conscious.

 

Could all be coincidences. With most players I wouldn't have even thought to look for this kind of thing. Darthe has a habit of planning his approach to a game in advance though--he even faked a post restriction throughout JC--and it's just the sort of thing I could see him consciously choosing to do. Behavior patterns aren't necessarily accidental with him.  None of his comments @ anyone are damning. The Dice one is the only one that even directly relates to a post about Hellian. The rest just coincidentally happen shortly after she's been scum read. Could all be innocent. Just little concerns. Hellian was a boss PR though, and I could see Darthe having some clever plan to passively seed a little doubt on anyone who starts to look her way, to shake people's willingness to cooperate on that lynch.

 

That's what bugged me about him N1.  Thought I'd throw it out there for more than just the Stedding crew after the o_O vote on Kat.

[Cass]

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm skimmed up to 84.

 

And exhausted. But I have chocolate, and coke zero and I swear just reading Shander the last few pages has BROUGHT BACK THE WIM ALREADY AND MADE ME WANT TO TYPE ALL IN CAPS!!!

 

*cough*

 

Spew thought from scribbled notes incoming, lmk if they don't make sense and I'll go back and find quotes/explain after if required, but RT catchup and compare-ISO Kat come first. I have some thoughts on Kat but since she's here I'm going to hold off and check out how she responds to Zander first.

 

*Steals popcorn gif*

 

So. 

 

Hallia-Tiink WW?

Possibly too blatantly connected to be WW but don't hate it.

 

Tiink moving off JS to vote Believer and avoiding the vote on Hellian IS sketchy.  The wording in that post flips me out.

There are also several earlier mentions with excuses to keep off Hellian that I don't think have been discussed.

Only question is, do WW link themselves that closely (particularly Hallia giving him an early Town read

[Shad_]

And to clarify on the Kat vote, do I think that if Darthe and Kat were w/w here with pretty dim chances of winning Darthe would go for some sort of 'scum mate wouldn't do that play?'  Yes, probably more often than not.  Sort of apathetic and preemptive yeah we can lynch this person vote when you would generically expect a wolf to try to profit more from a bus?  Could definitely see Darthe do that.  In his reads list he was more suspicious of Believer than Kat.  Believer and Kat both had two votes, so voting either would tie the train with Darthe.  He votes Kat.  It's pretty fishy.

[Cass]

Oops, cut this up to avoid WoT and chopped in wrong spot (YEYY NO POST RESTRICTION!!!!!!!!!! ALREADY SEE THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \M/ \M/

 

 

 

Hallia floating the whole 'Tiink' probably a villager thing and alive because of the protect feels like WIFOM and makes little sense IMO

Hellian's last role mentions 'THE' faction kill. Sticking to the notion of there being two NKs for wolves and using it to say Tiink should be clear is also sus IMO. BUT it could be genuine oversight and theory, it could be purposeful Town, it could be wolfy Hallia trying to buy more nights to use actions, could be Wolves leaving Town her alive for WIFOM. Eh. Do we push this, or hope it self resolves?

[Cass]

Believer COULD be being scummy for Town reasons BUT he's felt off to me the whole game, and there are serious differences in the way he's interacting with people here, and his 'my scummy play will change' feels too deliberate, like he's intentionally coasting off the trust/awe/hope/belief built up after last game. 

There's also a very good chance he's a wolf trying to draw a cop read as a GF/survive long enough to use a NA imo.  

TLDR - he can't be resolved until later either way.

[Shad_]

gotta get back to work o_o

[Cass]

Darthe's answers to me are ok but I wanted more of a break-down of why he of all people would be reading me Town on tone so I could try and see how legit the evolution/thought process was.  In Disney he mentioned me seeming peppy, but gave a caveat that he didn't know if peppy was significant, each time he's called me Town before, he's been Scum. Could be progression/improved understanding of meta but #?tinfoil?

 

I'm going to admit I didn't read much more of his reads list and I wouldn't put a lot of stock in it because a) I can't see Town Darthe doing this just because people asked (?have never seen him do it?/this may just be my impression obscuring reality though), and b) if Wolf Darthe creates a reads list, it's going to be tricksy.

 

More concrete, his vote at EoD 1 was also shocking, as is his ?apathy with the vote on Kat cos she's going to 'die with or without his input'. Actions speak louder than words?

 

His progression on WiFi is slightly different here to Disney (there he suggests it's silly to give her a pass; here he suggests it's a stretch that she'd be a highly functioning wolf. Side note: there's some wording that indicates he is thinking in levels of progression in both games - and he was Town in Disney. Not sure what to make of that.

 

However, if he's ACTUALLY confident at reading Dice and WiFi and Zander/I (which IIRC he's mentioned) then there's a chance that his sneaky comments at all of us are set as bait for over-eager wolves rather than trying to lead us to the lynch. This is kinda the vibe I'm leaning with. 

 

He hasn't shared any conclusions if that was the case though, and I can't remember if he's offered any more insight. So again, do we trust actions or words?

 

And I also think Wolf Darthe probably procures a reads list instead of answering/dissecting specific posts in this game in an attempt to placate the Towny masses and still avoid getting overly involved (see his comment about adjusting wolf play from game to game).

 

Help?

 

 

 

And that was about it.

[Zander?]

CASSGOATENFPMUSCITWIN!!!!!!!

[Zander?]

IRT Hallia- Claimed Doc, I have to believe theres a Doc in this setup and unless the actual Doc was not cc;ing to avoid being called out, i  stillthink that player would push at her for something at least and I dont really see anyone doing that.

[Zander?]

OMG I JUST SEEN THE THREAD!!!!!

 

HAPPY BIRTHDAY WIFI!!!!!!H

 

HOPE ITS A GOOD ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wildfire Sedai]

Thank You, Zander!!  

[Katiora]

@ whoever asked me why I prefer Kat over Darthe (forgot who it was) 

It mostly comes down to participation in TAR. Kat said very little, but Darthe was clearly scumhunting. He was contributing plenty to our discussion about roles, and I see no reason to FOS him for not choosing a place to go at night. That's just an oversight. 

 

One more thing that just occurred to me. We're all scratching our heads about why didn't the scum send a rep to the Stedding last night since it looks like everyone there was town. But Kat said she chose the stedding and ended up in TAR anyway. So if she's scum then they were planning on having one on each side at least: JS in TAR, Kat in the Stedding. Just a possibility. 

because someone pulling me into TAR was totally a good guy when the only people that would be able to do that are DEFINITELY bad. That makes no sense. I am totally being set up. I wasn't talkative in TAR because there was nothing to say and the majority of the time in there was at night. The part where ya'll actually talked was almost ALL at night. After i got there everyone shut up. I guess I should have talked to myself. 

[Shad_]

I would say that claiming to have been pulled into Tel is not the root of people's suspicions.

[Katiora]

@Kat - where are you??

Thoughts on Believer given the flip of John Snow?

 

 

@Darthe, more comments with your actual opinion on particular posts, please?

 

Now it's bed. Ninight all.

 

I'm not here on weekends a lot sorry.. this weekend was worse than others because I'll be gone next weekend so blah

 

My thoughts on Believer haven't changed. I still think he's the scummiest person here