The Wheel of Time Will Be Adapted as a TV Series

[Occams whiskey bottle]

I'm pretty sure that this is just someone's dream casting. There isn't anything on the internet saying that HBO is going to be the company producing the show. It's probably going to be either Showtime or Amazon.As far as the casting goes far too many Game of Thrones actors on that list. Not to mention many of the people cast wouldn't even be in the first season and possibly not even the second.  Sorry, but this isn't real. You can keep an eye on https://plus.google.com/103674399065634804648 which I think is the unofficial website of Robert Jordan now. Whenever it is announced they will acknowledge it for certain on this site.

[TaiShar337]

@Egeanin I mentioned that same page, it's definitely not legit, like OWB said. I ripped it for the most part, even though there are some good pairings, for the most part I don't like it. Some that I truly dislike are Lanfear and Gaul. Lanfear/Selene is exquisitely beautiful, and while I think Eva Green has a unique beauty fitting of an Aes Sedai, I wouldn't call it breath taking. Just my opinion, but I would love her as Moraine. 

 

As for Gaul, sorry to play race card, but you can't cast an actor/actress of African descent as an Aiel. The Aiel might be the most galvanized race in the Wheel of Time aside from the Atha'an Miere, and they have a very distinct appearance with very little deviation. You just can't do it. Beyond that, Gual's description is given throughout the novels, and Adewale Akinnouye-Agbaje doesn't come close. To continue racial profiling, I'm not familiar with Clive Standen, but I agree he would need to get a tan. Border Landers across the board are described as bronze/tan complected with dark hair. I've always imagined them resembling Turkish or Persian / Mediterranean vibe, just me though.

 

All in all, very sketchy list.

[Werthead]

It depends on how you want to go with it. The Aiel being fair-skinned is completely illogical after 3,400 years living in what is effectively a desert, so do you go with RJ's literary description or do you go with what makes more scientific sense and will scan better to an audience? But then you go have to figure in Rand's appearance being unusual in the Two Rivers so some kind of distinctive element is still required. Then you have the somewhat unclear descriptions of Two Rivers folk, with fans apparently generally believing they're fair-skinned Europeans but the descriptions making a lot of references to "dark" colouring and artwork (official and not) being all over the place in depicting them, from quite fair-skinned to quite northern Mediterranean (Italian/Spanish/Greek).

 

Then you have the issue that you start casting and pretty quickly the homegenity is going to become a limiting factor. You have an awesome actor for Mat and an awesome actress for Egwene, but they're from different ethnic backgrounds. Do you potentially lose an actor for an inferior one for the sake of homegenity or do you just go with the best actors and rationalise it (or just ignore it)? WoT does have the explanation that in the Age of Legends the entire human race in all its creeds and colours had been thrown and mixed together, and then jumbled up in the Breaking, so you can adopt colour-blind casting if you really wanted to. But would that be disrespectful to the books? Or if Robert Jordan was still here would he be laughing his head off and saying it really doesn't matter as long as the actors are the best?

 

What happens then if the production decides to film in, say, New Zealand for costs? You can fly in the main actors from wherever, but your entire secondary cast on down is going to be pretty much either white or Maori, with very few other options available (Shannara has this situation to deal with). Do you ignore that or rationalise it somehow in the story?

 

That's why saying, "It's got to be like the books 100%" is highly unrealistic. Depending on budget, filming location and the size of the available acting pool they're going to have to make some changes to that side of things.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

Afghans are known for their red hair and in some instances dying their beards red, so there is some real world examples to keeping Rand as is. Though I always envisioned the Aiel as being more Native American than caucasian. Nevertheless, give me good actors and a good story and I won't care at all about ethnicity. 

[szilard]

First things first. Robert Jordan was a white (a huge red flag), heterosexual (an even bigger red flag) male (the biggest red flag ever). Adapting his series is just another form of oppression.

 

Seriously, WoT is not racist, I repeat, racism does not exist in WoT, and it's a F A N T A S Y. (A few thousand years do not matter to skin colour anyway.) There are characters with "white"/coppery/olive/dark/etc skin.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/164

[Occams whiskey bottle]

First things first. Robert Jordan was a white (a huge red flag), heterosexual (an even bigger red flag) male (the biggest red flag ever). Adapting his series is just another form of oppression.

 

 

 

 

 

Where did you come up with that quote? Did you post in the wrong thread?

[TaiShar337]

First things first. Robert Jordan was a white (a huge red flag), heterosexual (an even bigger red flag) male (the biggest red flag ever). Adapting his series is just another form of oppression.

 

Seriously, WoT is not racist, I repeat, racism does not exist in WoT, and it's a F A N T A S Y. (A few thousand years do not matter to skin colour anyway.) There are characters with "white"/coppery/olive/dark/etc skin.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/164

 

 

My apologies if you consider my comment offensive. I understand its "F A N T A S Y" but RJ put a lot of work into defining the people of Wheel of Time, you can't just disregard extremely specific characteristics. I would never cast a white actor for Black Panther, you can't do it, he's a Wakandan. Race matters when you're casting a character or people, no matter if it's fiction. All Aiel are always described as bronze skinned (not fair or dark) with reddish hair, blue/green eyes. Only deviations ever mentioned are Sevannah's blonde hair, some wise ones with white hair, and one wise one that was a "standout" brunette.

 

These books, peoples, characters have lived in our heads for so long. RJ took a lot effort to describe them fully to us. If they cast a white actress as Tuon, I'll be extremely upset. If they disregard the specific features of one of the most important races in the books (Aiel) I'll be disappointed. There is so much detail in Jordan's novels you shouldn't have any problem getting the basics right. By all descriptions, Athan'an Miere should all be of dark skin ethnicity, shouldn't have a fair skin person on that boat, unless they have bartered for passage with the Wave Mistress. I can't stress enough RJ's work at defining all the people of this book, it's what makes them so good! For me at least, because of RJs abundant detail, I really experienced the difference between Cairhienen and Andoran, Arafellan and Saldean. 

 

If I'm painting a bowl of fruit, bananas will be yellow, oranges orange, strawberries red etc. It's not racist to paint RJ's world as it was described.

Edited September 20, 2016 by TaiShar337

[dexterryu]

Hello all

 

First post - new to the forum but have been reading and re-reading the WoT series since I was first introduced to it in 1993.

 

I admit I haven't trawled through every post here, but I have skim read through...yet no one seems to have picked up the fact that if it is true then:

 

iMdB have the Cast Listing for the Wheel of Time series! 

 

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls074590729/

 

It has apparently been picked up by HBO.  Not sure who this Madeleine Swann is who has submitted the 84 actors and actresses who are playing the various characters.

 

In scrolling through, there were some fantastic selections, and some rather not so good ones.  Again, assuming that this really is the cast, then probably the best cast actor I have seen is that of Clive Standen for Lan (okay, maybe not ugly, but given his role in Vikings he has the height and sword fighting skills to pull this off nicely).

 

I was disappointed with the choice for the main six characters though - never heard of Jamie Campbell Bower but his photo on imdb makes him look far too effeminate for playing Rand.  I suspect that all three actors playing Rand, Mat and Perrin will inevitably resort to taking steroids a la Chris Evans in Captain America (if you don't believe that, look at his physique in the Fabulous Four compared to Captain America).

 

I didn't think Oonah Chaplin looks attractive enough to play Nynaeve, either.  And Lindsay Duncan playing Morgase?  Morgase is meant to be stunning!

 

Yes, I do realise that there will be loads of make up artistry to transform some of these actors into our well beloved (and hated) characters.  But some actors you can just see will "fit" perfectly - eg one look at Ian Whyte's photo and you can see how easily he will transform into Loial.  As for Stephanie Blacker (Amys) - she will have to tan up a fair bit to pass for an Aiel, and doesn't Birgitte Hjort Sorensen look a bit young to play Bair - I thought Bair older than that??  For that matter, given her name is already Birgitte they could have had her playing the character of the same name.

 

So what do you all think?

 

As others before me this looks like a fans choice for casting... and a fan that is obviously someone that likes Vikings and Game of Thrones as a good portion of the cast comes from those 2 shows.

[Graendals favourite]

It depends on how you want to go with it. The Aiel being fair-skinned is completely illogical after 3,400 years living in what is effectively a desert, so do you go with RJ's literary description or do you go with what makes more scientific sense and will scan better to an audience? But then you go have to figure in Rand's appearance being unusual in the Two Rivers so some kind of distinctive element is still required. Then you have the somewhat unclear descriptions of Two Rivers folk, with fans apparently generally believing they're fair-skinned Europeans but the descriptions making a lot of references to "dark" colouring and artwork (official and not) being all over the place in depicting them, from quite fair-skinned to quite northern Mediterranean (Italian/Spanish/Greek).

 

Then you have the issue that you start casting and pretty quickly the homegenity is going to become a limiting factor. You have an awesome actor for Mat and an awesome actress for Egwene, but they're from different ethnic backgrounds. Do you potentially lose an actor for an inferior one for the sake of homegenity or do you just go with the best actors and rationalise it (or just ignore it)? WoT does have the explanation that in the Age of Legends the entire human race in all its creeds and colours had been thrown and mixed together, and then jumbled up in the Breaking, so you can adopt colour-blind casting if you really wanted to. But would that be disrespectful to the books? Or if Robert Jordan was still here would he be laughing his head off and saying it really doesn't matter as long as the actors are the best?

 

What happens then if the production decides to film in, say, New Zealand for costs? You can fly in the main actors from wherever, but your entire secondary cast on down is going to be pretty much either white or Maori, with very few other options available (Shannara has this situation to deal with). Do you ignore that or rationalise it somehow in the story?

 

That's why saying, "It's got to be like the books 100%" is highly unrealistic. Depending on budget, filming location and the size of the available acting pool they're going to have to make some changes to that side of things.

I actually don't think evolution work that fast. The Aiel came to the waste with the genetic pool they had, minimal interaction with outsiders, I don't think 3+ thousand years is enough to change the colour particularly with the Wise Ones developing as healers.

[Graendals favourite]

Homo sapiens is some 40 000 years old, and there's more natural selection there.

[Tomp]

IMDB is good for movies and tv-series that's done and has been released. It's worthless for upcoming projects. Anyone with a pro membership can add information.

 

Oh and don't trust the scoring of the titles there.

There's been too many attempts by die-hard fans to increase their favourite movies scores and down-grade the competition.

As an example there was a huge effort by some idiot fanboys to make "The dark Knight" into the highest scoring movie on IMDB, they formed a group of likeminded imbeciles on reddit and they all gave "the dark Knight" the highest score, but in order to make it reach the number one spot they also gave "The godfather" a lot of the lowest score.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

Homo sapiens is some 40 000 years old, and there's more natural selection there.

You just over thought about 90% of the would be fans of the show that will just see it as being whitewashing. Really though, skin color isn't that important. If they get the right people and the right script and we'll have a great show.

[TaiShar337]

Script/ screen adaptation is another big concern of mine. GoT season are only 10 episodes long, and that seems to be the going rate on all major series from Netflix, Amazon, USA, AMC etc. The season will have to be longer than 10 episodes right? I realize there' a lot of meat dedicated to detailed descriptions of people, places and concepts that will translate directly into what we see on screen, but there's still a whole lot of story telling as well.  

 

How will weaving the one power be acted out? Remember the battle between Nynaeve and Moghedion in Chachin? At one point during their fierce battle it is said that if anyone had entered the room all they would see is 2 women glaring at each other, hands to their side. As the reader, we know there's in fact a maelstrom of weaves being cut and countered around two critical weaves of spirit, one from each combatant, to shield the other from Saidar. IMO, this is one of the best 1v1 bouts in the whole series, how do you recreate the same intensity in a live action format? When so much of what made that confrontation intense comes from the thoughts racing through Nynaeve's mind? 

Edited September 21, 2016 by TaiShar337

[SinisterDeath]

 

Homo sapiens is some 40 000 years old, and there's more natural selection there.

You just over thought about 90% of the would be fans of the show that will just see it as being whitewashing. Really though, skin color isn't that important. If they get the right people and the right script and we'll have a great show.

 

Fans of the books, will probably recognize Jordan was being tongue in cheek by making Rand Land's desert dwelling "Muslim" population (Aiel) racially of Irish Decent. (Cause red-heads thrive so well in the desert), and making what is the equivalent of 1800s New Orleans/The South racially a predominantly Black/Hispanic population that doesn't deal in slavery.... Until the Japanese-American conquers come and make them all into slavers.

[Graendals favourite]

That's a good dichotomy, don't know if its manageable on the wide stage, but it is there...

[Occams whiskey bottle]

That's a good dichotomy, don't know if its manageable on the wide stage, but it is there...

 

 

I think you can establish that in the first episode you would just need to tweak the prologue a little, and really it would probably be the best entry point for those unfamiliar with the story.

 

Put Lews Therin and the Aes Sedai in our world several hundred years in the future. So the first 1/2-3/4 of the show is almost a space opera. The White Tower is in New York, London or somewhere familiar. Establish the people working on the bore to be from around the world. The break through it, and the male Aes Sedai go mad, where by they show world wide devastation. Lead back to Lews Therins encounter with the Forsaken. Then show Lews incinerating himself, creating Dragonsmount. Have the camera pull back until we are looking at the entire Earth all the while witnessing the devastation Tsunamis, Earthquakes, Volcanoes of fire and ash blotting out the sun, so all we see from our vantage point is a world of black smoke. Then show the Earth clearing up over the centuries, and ages. This is when they could have the intro of "The wheel of time turns and..." When the Earth is clear again have the camera show that the Earths continents are completely different and begin to zoom in on Two Rivers where we first see Mat, Rand, and Perin. Hopefully, when they make the show they try and disguise who the Dragon Reborn actually is. Doing it this way would be a good way of  letting the audience understand why the Irish are desert dwellers.

 

Of course the first episode done this way would be almost entirely the prologue, but I think it is that important because a lot of things are established in that one chapter that pays dividends later on. For instance when Rand begins to go mad without the prologue Rand is just crazy, but with the prologue we are not really sure what's going on. 

[Werthead]

Script/ screen adaptation is another big concern of mine. GoT season are only 10 episodes long, and that seems to be the going rate on all major series from Netflix, Amazon, USA, AMC etc. The season will have to be longer than 10 episodes right? I realize there' a lot of meat dedicated to detailed descriptions of people, places and concepts that will translate directly into what we see on screen, but there's still a whole lot of story telling as well. 

 

The maximum number of episodes possible is about 16 (which is what The Walking Dead gets) and I think WoT would need that. You might be able to squeeze it into 14 episode seasons, 12 if you want to be quite ruthless. 10...well, you could get some of the story there, but not all of it and you'd have to cut out a lot of good stuff.

 

The reason for that is that you really need to do two books per season (for 7 seasons total), so roughly 8 episodes per book. You can move that around a little - The Dragon Reborn, the shortest book in the series, could be done in 6 and The Shadow Rising, the longest book, might need 10 - but that gives you a rough ballpark to be aiming for. With 10-episode seasons, can you really do The Eye of the World or Lord of Chaos justice in just 5 episodes each? It's better than a movie situation, but it's still going to be massively limiting.

 

How will weaving the one power be acted out? Remember the battle between Nynaeve and Moghedion in Chachin? At one point during their fierce battle it is said that if anyone had entered the room all they would see is 2 women glaring at each other, hands to their side. As the reader, we know there's in fact a maelstrom of weaves being cut and countered around two critical weaves of spirit, one from each combatant, to shield the other from Saidar. IMO, this is one of the best 1v1 bouts in the whole series, how do you recreate the same intensity in a live action format? When so much of what made that confrontation intense comes from the thoughts racing through Nynaeve's mind?

A simple POV device. If your POV character in a scene is a channeller, we can see stuff from their viewpoint, complete with colours swirling around and so on. If they're not, then you just see the effects of the weaves, not the weaves themselves.

[TaiShar337]

A simple POV device. If your POV character in a scene is a channeller, we can see stuff from their viewpoint, complete with colours swirling around and so on. If they're not, then you just see the effects of the weaves, not the weaves themselves.

 

 

 

 I get the POV device, but my concern is more about how to make some of the confrontations between channelers compelling to watch. Take for example, a beautifully choreographed kung fu scene, then compare that to 2 static combatants weaving the one power. You can see the challenge of creating an epic fight scene, to choreograph a dance of weaves to rival Hong Kong Kung Fu cinema, that's what I want        

Edited September 26, 2016 by TaiShar337

[Werthead]

 

A simple POV device. If your POV character in a scene is a channeller, we can see stuff from their viewpoint, complete with colours swirling around and so on. If they're not, then you just see the effects of the weaves, not the weaves themselves.

 

 

 

 I get the POV device, but my concern is more about how to make some of the confrontations between channelers compelling to watch. Take for example, a beautifully choreographed kung fu scene, then compare that to 2 static combatants weaving the one power. You can see the challenge of creating an epic fight scene, to choreograph a dance of weaves to rival Hong Kong Kung Fu cinema, that's what I want        

 

 

Hmm. It wouldn't work as-is for WoT, but it may be worth checking out Avatar: The Last Airbender, in which the elemental magic (not dissimilar to the One Power) is "cast" by the characters through differing forms of martial arts. We know the Aes Sedai make hand signs when launching fireballs and so on, so there may be some kind of visual cue that can be developed that would work in a similar manner.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

I always thought the magic in WoT would be tricky to do. IMO there's a high potential for it looking silly.

[TaiShar337]

I always thought the magic in WoT would be tricky to do. IMO there's a high potential for it looking silly.

 

My concern exactly. My fear is that weaves and the art of weaving will only be word of mouth and not explicitly shown. If Rand weaves a gateway, all we will see is the gateway, no matter if the scene is from his perspective or Mat's. That would stink, mainly because one of the ways we've learned to judge a channeler's strength is by their formation of weaves and the amount that they can maintain at once.

 

@Werthead Avatar elemental forms would be cool but like you said, not WoT. Hand gestures are mentioned throughout the books, but always said to be frivolous and akin to a mental block and frowned upon, right? Novice and Accepted would be ridiculed if they had to perform a physical gesture to create a weave. The best example I can think of how weaving should work in live action is "Tuning" in Dark City, but with far more detail and color obviously.

 

I definitely expect some creative license when it comes to weaving, just hope it doesn't suck.

Edited September 26, 2016 by TaiShar337

[Werthead]

As I recall, the Aes Sedai use hand gestures a lot - "throwing" fireballs and so on. The Wise Ones and the damane, IIRC, don't need to do it and are befuddled when they see the Aes Sedai doing it.

[TaiShar337]

As I recall, the Aes Sedai use hand gestures a lot - "throwing" fireballs and so on. The Wise Ones and the damane, IIRC, don't need to do it and are befuddled when they see the Aes Sedai doing it.

 

I'm gonna go "nerd" on this, my apologies, but the reason they don't use gestures is to avoid said gesture becoming part of the weave. If a channeler needs to wave their hand or wiggle their fingers in order to complete a weave, then all you need to do is bind their hands and they won't be able to channel. No need to shield them from the source, or even be able to channel yourself, just render their hands/arms useless. If I was a better "nerd" I'd reference the exact chapter wherein this is mentioned, but I'm pretty sure it was in relation to Egwene/Elayne/Nyneave's preparation for entering the rings...

[dexterryu]

 

I always thought the magic in WoT would be tricky to do. IMO there's a high potential for it looking silly.

 

My concern exactly. My fear is that weaves and the art of weaving will only be word of mouth and not explicitly shown. If Rand weaves a gateway, all we will see is the gateway, no matter if the scene is from his perspective or Mat's. That would stink, mainly because one of the ways we've learned to judge a channeler's strength is by their formation of weaves and the amount that they can maintain at once.

 

@Werthead Avatar elemental forms would be cool but like you said, not WoT. Hand gestures are mentioned throughout the books, but always said to be frivolous and akin to a mental block and frowned upon, right? Novice and Accepted would be ridiculed if they had to perform a physical gesture to create a weave. The best example I can think of how weaving should work in live action is "Tuning" in Dark City, but with far more detail and color obviously.

 

I definitely expect some creative license when it comes to weaving, just hope it doesn't suck.

 

 

The weaving work in the book because we are truly in the characters heads and it makes it more interesting/action packed. Even in the books the threads for commonly used weaves aren't explained everytime... like gateways, balefire, etc... In the case of a book after once or twice it's a waste of words and in movie/show it would be a waste of effects budget. So the best way would be to just show the result in the majority of cases.

 

I think the way to do it would be to find other ways to demonstrate someone's strength with the power. Perhaps the "glow" and how bright a person glows. But even that would get a bit old and redundant.

 

IMHO, the weaves would be talked about, but only really seen in duels like Nyneave vs Moghedien.

[Thrasymachus]

Most of the time, the weaves aren't explained at all.  It's just stated how intricate or complex they are, or how many flows have to be handled simultaneously.

 

Honestly, there are only a few times that actual weaving needs to be shown at all.  Early on when the girls are learning, and then later when Rand gets tutored under Asmodean, and even that mainly only to show the difference between saidin and saidar.  And when Elayne gets introduced to Windfinder weaving, just to show the scope and size of the weaves they do.  But mostly, the effects of the weaves are what's important.  Shields can be shown as a sort of shimmering or shadowy effect over the heads of the shielded characters.  Most of the other stuff will have direct, dramatic and clearly visual effects that would more than suffice.  

 

And with Nynaeve's and Moghedien's duel, what should be shown there is not the weaving so much as the juxtaposition.  I reckon something similar to the wraith world that Frodo experiences when putting on the Ring, but with more color, with beams and nets of energy lashing out and breaking apart violently against each other, with lots of wind and a rushing noise in the POV shots and a strong glow that seems to emanate from just behind the characters, contrasted against a scene of two women merely standing about 15 feet apart, glaring at each other, sweating, occasionally grunting or 'tsking' with an occasional finger or hand twitching.