the Hunt for the Dragon Reborn [Standard Mafia] Game Over town wins

[Hallia]

 

i seem to spend most of my time talking to myself. no wonder im a low poster

 

im goin to bed

 

Die managed to post a whole lot of nothing imo

 

Its almost like hes trying to avoid spew atp imo.

He doesn't spend most of the time talking to himself. For this game it's been just rehashing of that one issue.

[Hallia]

Morning Zandoozle

[Cory Caboose]

I guess my big concern with Zander that's keeping me from fully clearing him is that I don't see the out of control aggression where he's a minecart drifting off the tracks and I have to continually steady him and keep him from crashing into a wall.

 

But then again, he wants to lynch Dice, and I could easily see him not feeling he needs to go ham over it because I've already basically championed it and it's going to get done.

[Zander?]

Yeah, this one is super obvious to me.

 

By like his first ten posts in World's End he's warring with Zander, voting him, calling out his reasoning and saying why it's wolfy and not genuine.

 

He does the same thing to Pizza in NBC in his first handful of posts and goes @ a bunch of other players.

 

He re-assesses on both eventually and makes the right read over time (except he flips on Zander when Besie dies in the WE game, loldice) but Dice calls it out when he sees something that gives him the stink eye and pushes it. The point being he doesn't feel like he needs to "understand the thread" before making reads and there's no build or anything; he comes out shots firing because he doesn't really care what other people think.

 

Cory why am I tinfoiling on you so badly right now?

 

Dice openly told us in Matrix Maf QT to bus him.

 

So Im not ruling out that is something that could be happening here.

 

There 3 people here in particular that I know Cory reads extremely well:

 

Zander

Dice

Tina

 

He's pushing Dice who as I mentioned if Wolf doesnt mind being bussed and encouraged me and Cory to do so in Matrix. Im reading Dice scummy as well so I can see a world where that is possible irt Cory.

 

Tina he has straight up Town reading number 1 Towny.  In Matrix I was his # 1 Towny and he just was like Zanders never a wolf and just straight up rode that all game.

 

Now with me im his # 2 or 3 top Town read.  But he's made subtle little comments or pokes on me and moved me around some.  Which could be a way to leave himself some wiggle room come later on.

 

NOW

 

Im not saying Cory is a Wolf atp.  But I know Im Town and if he's wrong on Dice and or Tina please look hard at here.

 

This was a PSA from your friendly neighborhood Zander.

[Darthe]

Which is also how id be if I was a wolf and saw that dice couldnt be saved. Does Zander still overreach?

[Cory Caboose]

Zander read my last two posts and kindly use your brain.

[Zander?]

 

I am literally never going to be able to wolf again after this game.

 

There is no chance in hell I come close to replicating this as a wolf ever.

 

I need to like move to the AL and become a Designated Villager.

Ftr id still cop you, especially if dice/verb are town or tina is a wolf. Id prob lynch you if either of those was known to ve true.

 

 

Darthe gets it.

 

 

 

 

 

I am literally never going to be able to wolf again after this game.

 

There is no chance in hell I come close to replicating this as a wolf ever.

 

I need to like move to the AL and become a Designated Villager.

Ftr id still cop you, especially if dice/verb are town or tina is a wolf. Id prob lynch you if either of those was known to ve true.

Copping me is dumb since 85% of the time all you get back is "you peeked a dead villager, GJ"

Imo you're the n2+ nk this game. If this town is as good as it seems then Wolves cant afford to take you out before the cop.

 

 

I have some tinfoil on Cory but if Cory's Town his reads are almost like having a Cop view so Im not sure how they'd proceed here.

[Zander?]

 

 

I am literally never going to be able to wolf again after this game.

 

There is no chance in hell I come close to replicating this as a wolf ever.

 

I need to like move to the AL and become a Designated Villager.

Ftr id still cop you, especially if dice/verb are town or tina is a wolf. Id prob lynch you if either of those was known to ve true.

 

 

Copping me is dumb since 85% of the time all you get back is "you peeked a dead villager, GJ"

 

 

 

I don't think so, Correh <3

 

Hallia is this in response to the above?

[Turin Turambar]

I was gonna try to put all of the posts together but they are all interspersed in with other long MQs that deal with other things. So I'm gonna have to do what I can . This is taking too long.

 

 

 

Oh Zander

Theme let us hope this game we can finally clear one another!

Hallia said in one MQ that this is the post I had a problem with. I did, I do. I think I explained my reasoning already. Buddying is a real thing and it is a real thing that many people are reluctant to overcome their initial read on a player. Meaning that they require more bad info to move someone down that they have more likely town.

 

She said that my opinion silly or that she thought it was silly or sommat like that.  She never really said why that I know of.

 

 

Got to 10 quotes, and didn't wanna go crazy with the quotes.  Up to 8.

 

P6:

I feel that Cory's attempt to understand Sooh and clear the air looks good for him.

 

 

 

 

Sooh...i dont think you really think Ive cleared Cory....

Are you doing that thing that wolves do by just saying things for the sake of saying them?

Zander, you posted his name in blue next to yours. Now if that's a joke then just say so and I'll let it go.



For everyone:
So many of these mafia games lately have started by people who are really excited about playing together, and the rest of us are not important what so ever. I dislike this behavior intensely, because in being exclusively interested in what that one person you're excited about is saying you're also immediately excluding a bunch of people.

Player 1 posts, immediate reaction: Oh Player, let's town together! We're going to wreck all the wolves and it will be awesome.

Player 2 posts, immediate reaction: Oh yeah? Is that what the wolves told you to say? Are you a wolf?

It creates an environment where some people, only based on who they are, are received in a so much better way than others.

Sooh you know I love you.

Sooh its pretty obv a joke.

I love everyone and dont have anyone I dont like playing with...that even includes Lenlo......lololololololol <3 <3 <3

But I really dislike this post from you. You know me and Cory away from the game and you know were obv joking around about that like first page into the game

[v] Sooh [/v]

your read didn't look like a joke. You are assuming that people will read it as such.

More importantly tho is why are you voting here? Is it from being upset or does her statement make you think she is mafia?

 

1. Turin on the other hand; says the read didn't look like a joke; that must be a personal opinion, because it looked like a pretty obvious one for me.  Also, I don't like the linking he tried to do with Thane and myself over what I said to him.

 

I'm not sure that's wolfy for Sooh.

 

I just don't understand what she is saying. She's played with all of us before. I want to understand.

I'm saying that I am not a fan of the behavior as it excludes a bunch of other players. It's not alignment indicative what so ever.

 

It's like there's an IN crowd who are the COOL people and the rest are just wall paint. I dislike that kind of excluding behavior in any environment, I saw it here and I called people on it. 

 

Outside of asking a question about people clearing you for no reason what so ever I don't think I've done any gameplay at all this game yet.

 

2. As I said, I don't think there is a cool crowd that protects people.  Zander has caught me wolfing, as has Cory and they're pretty much my best fronds ever

I've been scumread by Cory, and we all know he luffs me

 

 

For everyone: 
So many of these mafia games lately have started by people who are really excited about playing together, and the rest of us are not important what so ever. I dislike this behavior intensely, because in being exclusively interested in what that one person you're excited about is saying you're also immediately excluding a bunch of people.
 
Player 1 posts, immediate reaction: Oh Player, let's town together! We're going to wreck all the wolves and it will be awesome.
 
Player 2 posts, immediate reaction: Oh yeah? Is that what the wolves told you to say? Are you a wolf?
 
It creates an environment where some people, only based on who they are, are received in a so much better way than others.

It doesn't really work like that though. I at your intro post for the exact same reason Zander later explained.

 

End of 6 going into 7:

 

Sooh wants to drop it.  Whole interaction is just strange, not sure where it came from. 

 

 

The v/v/v thing sounds like trying to fit in. wether it really says anything about Cory and Zander is up in the air.

Would you perhaps say that I was trying to cory favor?

Bwahahahaha

It makes me nervous that you could be buddying them or you could as a group be setting yourselves to just green read steamroll the game.

 

3. More of what is making me suspicious of Turin.

Right now what are your snap reads of everyone? Just say who.you legit think is town or mafia. Feel free to leave out the nulls. I'm curious.

Right now I will say I am suspicious of all the people that say things like "hopefully we will read each other right" or things like that.

Hallia, Shad, Thane jumping into the 4 v's.

I actually lean town on Sooh for the controversial post. I just don't see her making that post as mafia. Too likely to draw negative attention.

I think rest null. But only on phone so might have missed something.

 

I personally don't see this post coming from mafia Thane:

 

ok, now for some thoughts of mine... it's a silly little thought i have, but i get the feeling (<- important word there) that we just might have all town players at the moment. Don't crucify me for that statement later if i'm wrong, but you may worship me if it's true

 

P8:

 

Wait, so...I don't understand. Turin, are you saying I'm wolfy for saying that to Thane? Or you have me as a villager? I am confused.

I have you leaning mafia for that.

Zander, you are voting her but you don't think she is mafia? Now I'm confused.

 

 

 

Wait, so...I don't understand. Turin, are you saying I'm wolfy for saying that to Thane? Or you have me as a villager? I am confused.

I have you leaning mafia for that.

Zander, you are voting her but you don't think she is mafia? Now I'm confused.

 

 

Turin thats absolutely NOT what I said.

 

Why you misrepping me brah?

 

 

I feel like this is TownZander.  He's just on point, and even trying to corral himself.  4. I feel like Turin is misrepping people; I think it might just be intentional.

 

 

 

 

 

Sooh...i dont think you really think Ive cleared Cory....

 

Are you doing that thing that wolves do by just saying things for the sake of saying them?

 

Zander, you posted his name in blue next to yours. Now if that's a joke then just say so and I'll let it go. For everyone: 

So many of these mafia games lately have started by people who are really excited about playing together, and the rest of us are not important what so ever. I dislike this behavior intensely, because in being exclusively interested in what that one person you're excited about is saying you're also immediately excluding a bunch of people.

 

Player 1 posts, immediate reaction: Oh Player, let's town together! We're going to wreck all the wolves and it will be awesome.

 

Player 2 posts, immediate reaction: Oh yeah? Is that what the wolves told you to say? Are you a wolf?

 

It creates an environment where some people, only based on who they are, are received in a so much better way than others. 

 

 

Sooh you know I love you.

 

Sooh its pretty obv a joke.

 

I love everyone and dont have anyone I dont like playing with...that even includes Lenlo......lololololololol  <3 <3 <3

 

But I really dislike this post from you.  You know me and Cory away from the game and you know were obv joking around about that like first page into the game

 

[v] Sooh [/v]

 

 

As someone who used to go off about the Alliance I get where sooh is coming from. It may not be alignment indicative but it can sometimes feel a bit cliquey and can sometimes be a bit annoying.

 

 

Zander you really should remove your vote. She expressed an opinion   a personal opinion at that   and whether she knows u out of game or not she is entitled to that opinion and shouldnt be getting pressured for it.

 

Don't like Dice's defense of Sooh.  He's def. in the suspect pool.  I feel mixed on Sooh  still. :/

 

Continuing on.

 

big post:

1: Of course it was my opinion that the post doesn't read as a joke. I don't know what Z is thinking there.  Congratulations on your ability to read Zander's mind. I can barely read his posts half the time. (kidding Z, it is more like 10% failure to understand what you are saying) Also, I didn't try to link you too together. I suspected you both separately because you did something similar that I find to be questionable. I have caught mafia doing it too so w/e. 

 

2: But do you think that Sooh didn't believe what she was saying? That is the real question to determine if it really has anything to do with her alignment. I can say that reading the opening I can see how she could feel that she was right.

 

3. First question: post above or below or both? what in particular about the post(s) made you suspicious of me? Do you think buddying doesn't happen? Do you think that mafia wouldn't group together and just use force of personality to green read each other all the way through and drown out the town? 

 

4. How did I misrep him? He said that he wasn't sure she was a wolf. He was voting her. I believe that in a recent game he came at me because I was questioning him because he was sussing someone but wasn't voting them. He said on D1 he wants to be sure. I was looking for his level of certainty. Who else have I misrepped? Finally look at the wording of the last part.  I think it might just be intentional. Do you even believe what you are saying? It sounds so very weak. (in b4 you say it is sarcasm) 

 

This is taking forever. I might get to the next big post or I might do one other that I think has something interesting in it. More might not happen until much later.

 

Hallia, if you really believe in your case do you think that you could actually put it together into one or two posts that don't have a bunch of superfluous other things mixed in?

[Cory Caboose]

Zander:

 

Do you remember when you went ham @ Dice for what happened in World's End and how that bias made you hilariously wrong in spite of obvious evidence?

 

My tinfoil is obviously not leading to anything; I have you as a strong townread. If you think this is some ploy to mislynch you later, you're a dolt.

 

You're a great thread reader but sometimes you slip into bias and that's where you are weak. Shore it up. Control the Ne.

[Cory Caboose]

And if you're saying Dice/me is EVER w/w you legitimately need to put down the stupid flakes and get a new breakfast cereal.

 

I take pride in defending my wolfbros and spurring them to do villagery things. Not because I think it's polite or that's just what I feel like doing, but because I think it's extraordinarily -EV to narrow your team's numbers to look good when I can just look good by being me normally as a wolf.

 

It's funny you brought up dice in Matrix because yes, there were times he thought he was better off being bussed. What did I do? I hard defended his ass literally all game and never let him get lynched.

[Darthe]

Yo people can we like some votes here? Dice left, this lynch is going to happen, let's get moving.

[Darthe]

And if you're saying Dice/me is EVER w/w you legitimately need to put down the stupid flakes and get a new breakfast cereal.

 

I take pride in defending my wolfbros and spurring them to do villagery things. Not because I think it's polite or that's just what I feel like doing, but because I think it's extraordinarily -EV to narrow your team's numbers to look good when I can just look good by being me normally as a wolf.

 

It's funny you brought up dice in Matrix because yes, there were times he thought he was better off being bussed. What did I do? I hard defended his ass literally all game and never let him get lynched.

We need too wolf together sometime

[Zander?]

 

Cory, if granted a hero shot who are you killing? Assume dice flipped wolf today.

 

How do you define hero shot? I'd probably just shoot Verbal, who wouldn't be much of a hero shot?

 

If I knew someone in my greens/blues was a wolf I would probably guess Zander because his wolf game seems to always be drastically improving, but I literally never take that shot over Kat/Verbal/Sooh ever.

 

He probably isn't going to like hearing that, but he should consider it a sign of respect. I was torn on him speccing Chrono Trigger in particular even if he never got out of my PoE.

 

 

Im not saying youre a Wolf I've just seen some things that I felt like noting.

 

I do take it as a sign of respect but I also know that you read me like a book and would know how to try and appease/reassure me as well.

 

Im just pointing things out as I see them is all.

 

Morning Zandoozle

 

Morning Poutine Lover

 

I guess my big concern with Zander that's keeping me from fully clearing him is that I don't see the out of control aggression where he's a minecart drifting off the tracks and I have to continually steady him and keep him from crashing into a wall.

 

But then again, he wants to lynch Dice, and I could easily see him not feeling he needs to go ham over it because I've already basically championed it and it's going to get done.

 

#FULLZANDER has been frowned upon on DM lately.....sadface.gif

 

It's always there....waiting....yearning...to be released.

 

Dice is my scum read.  I think he's scum.  If the lynch moves off there then you'll need the reigns to try and rope me in. 

[Niniel]

I will not be here much today. Appologize in advance. I´ve had huge sleeping problems the last days and I´m just not feeling well.

 

Can someone please tell me why Darthe, Calder and Shad is town. It´s not that I have a mafia read on the first two but I don´t get them. Calder doesn´t post much. Darthe post a lot but I don´t understand what he is saying. Clearly he is making sense to the rest of you so it´s probably my fault. I know I´m asking you to do my job but if someone would post a list with super clear reasons I would be happy.

 

Darthe - I don´t think you answered my question. If you did, please show me.

 

I have not checked if I got all the answers I wanted but I have to check that later.

 

 

I don´t want to vote Cory, Zander or Thane. I think Hallia is town but not sure.

 

I´m very uncertain of Dice. He didn´t add much when he got back but he could be irritated on being an unfair day 1 lynch. I really don´t know what is what. I will not fight his lynch but I´m not ready to vote him right now.

 

I didn´t like Shad earlier but as many have him as town I want to read your comments first.

 

Who is being replaced? If it´s not Verbal, I could vote him. I´ll wait for Laine to post before I comment on her. (Welcome, Laine!)

 

 

I´ll try to check in as much as I can but as I said it won´t be often. I´m happy that many are town reading me but I´m not sure about much so don´t listen to much to my oppinions.

[Shad_]

Im seeing a lot of reads lists with these names in blue and green

 

Zander

Cory

Tina

Dathe

Hallia

 

Odds are theres prolly one person in this list being miscleared.

 

Who iyo and why?

 

I have mixed feelings on that.

 

I don't get all the hard clearing of Hallia.  This isn't one of those games where I just know she's town.  I think she's > rand town, but I don't see it as super incredibly obvious.  But then, like I said about Cory's Verbal read in Chrono Trigger, I can't imagine someone who makes above average reads and is especially good at reading Hallia calling her blue unless there's something highly substantial to it or, what couldn't be the case in that instance, scum is making the read.  In other words if Cory turns out to be town my read on Hallia goes up as a rule.

 

Cory can fool me in impressive ways and I don't think there's a non-peek scenario where I put him above where I currently have him prior to a flip.  But he's intensely self-resolving and he has earned my trust for this phase.  I'm not as aware of what Darthe is capable of, so there's that, but he's D1 town.  They're just both players I'm going to continually reevaluate as the game progresses.

 

You and Tina are the most likely to be town of that lot in my mind.  I've had a few tinfoily moments on you, but the only game where we agreed on so much and you were still scum was Matrix, and that was a special scenario where you had a really dynamic team around you that allowed you to shine to your fullest.  Tina is pretty thoroughly locked in to me.  If she's scum she's played absolutely beautifully this phase.

[Cory Caboose]

The lynch isn't moving off Dice, I think.

[Shad_]

@ Cory and Shad

 

Can you guys share you reasoning on you mostly null reads on Sooh?

Sooh's frustration throughout this game has blurred my capacity to read her.  It's created scenarios where she can be dead honest without necessarily being town. I give her a very modest town lean because I am seeing her town tone through it, but until she's more directly involved in game solving it's not something I place a lot of confidence in.

[Zander?]

Zander read my last two posts and kindly use your brain.

 

This statement implies that I have one. 

 

Zander:

 

Do you remember when you went ham @ Dice for what happened in World's End and how that bias made you hilariously wrong in spite of obvious evidence?

 

My tinfoil is obviously not leading to anything; I have you as a strong townread. If you think this is some ploy to mislynch you later, you're a dolt.

 

You're a great thread reader but sometimes you slip into bias and that's where you are weak. Shore it up. Control the Ne.

 

And yes I know I can be wrong and have been a fair bit.  But I also know that I can have some pretty GOAT reads and Ive learned to trust my instincts.

 

I dont know what Ne is.

 

But the paranoia is a real thing brother.

 

 

And if you're saying Dice/me is EVER w/w you legitimately need to put down the stupid flakes and get a new breakfast cereal.

 

I take pride in defending my wolfbros and spurring them to do villagery things. Not because I think it's polite or that's just what I feel like doing, but because I think it's extraordinarily -EV to narrow your team's numbers to look good when I can just look good by being me normally as a wolf.

 

It's funny you brought up dice in Matrix because yes, there were times he thought he was better off being bussed. What did I do? I hard defended his ass literally all game and never let him get lynched.

 

But you did jump all over Lenlo with me....RIP Lenlolololololo you filthy Wolf!!!!!!

[Turin Turambar]

These two posts and Haillia's response are evidence of spin IMO due to the way she replied in her MQ. remember that you have to click all the quotes you want and then put in your comments afterward. At least that is the only way I do it. If I'm wrong there then someone please tell me. 

 

 

In intensely fewer words: I think if Sooh is scum there was definitely town spew in those two posts.  I don't have any lean one way or the other on her atm.  I don't think #94 was indicative of jack, because town!Sooh rolls into games with a chip on her shoulder sometimes for reasons I will never understand, while scum!Sooh is pretty jacked because people are already looking at her slanteyed and she doesn't recognize the game-related reason for it.

 

The takeaway is I'm null on her moving forward and, if she's scum, Cory Zander and Turin are all > rand town.

She questioned Shad "why Turin?"

 

and by Turin I meant Thane, which I originally typed and then got confused.  >_<

She replied "Oh, Okay". Those response might be paraphrases.

 

 

The Hallia post that these two Shad posts came out of are nearly sequential if on separate pages. There was even a bit of discussion about the Thane/Turin name confusion because I caught Thane/Eldrick when he mistakenly messed up the names in a game. My question is why even make the first comment? I thought that she might have not wanted to erase the quote but even that doesn't explain why make the comment in that way at that point?  It doesn't make any sense. 

 

Her "case" on me is a series of nudges with no real substance. Now she is just asking people what they think of me with her camped vote. 

 

Hallia, I ws the first person to make a complete read list with my thoughts on each player. So now who misrepped?

 

And I have to go to the store while the rain is stopped.

[Cory Caboose]

Votecount

 

 

Dice (3/7): Cory, Zander, Darthe

 

Shad (1/7): Turin

 

Turin (1/7): Hallia

 

 

Not Voting (8): Calder, Dice, Laine, Shad, Sooh, Thane, Tina, Verb

 

 

Please note that as the deadline currently is now I won't be around until an hour (or two) beforehand to update VCs or provide a flip if the hammer's early.

 

 

But you did jump all over Lenlo with me....RIP Lenlolololololo you filthy Wolf!!!!!!

 

We didn't actually lynch him until like d4.

 

And I actually asked you to back off several times but you wouldn't, so I figured if you were going to get it done I mineswell get credit too.

 

(lol)

[Darthe]

Tina you never told me what I was supposed to answer...

[Cory Caboose]

Unofficial Votecount

 

Dice (4/7): Cory, Zander, Darthe, Calder

Shad (1/7): Turin

Turin (1/7): Hallia


Not Voting (7): Dice, Laine, Shad, Sooh, Thane, Tina, Verb



Please note that as the deadline currently is now I won't be around until an hour (or two) beforehand to update VCs or provide a flip if the hammer's early.

[Shad_]

Cory: He has stated in the last few DT's that I am a super easy read for him. I really don't like that he had me as a wavering null/town read. I am starting to think he knows he should have me town but has already made too many town reads to be able to do so. The way that he kinda delayed in doing my read when he jumped right into all the other ones and came back with near immediate reads on everyone else up to that point was troubling also.

Pretty gutsy thing for scum!Turin to say. Don't know that I agree, but I don't hate it.

[Zander?]

 

 

But you did jump all over Lenlo with me....RIP Lenlolololololo you filthy Wolf!!!!!!

 

We didn't actually lynch him until like d4.

 

And I actually asked you to back off several times but you wouldn't, so I figured if you were going to get it done I mineswell get credit too.

 

(lol)

 

 

He only survived that long cause Shad claimed and I got him to use another x1 claim and it cleared him for the extra days.....lololololol

 

But yes you did try to tell me to reign it in some.