[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

BFG · February 3, 2016

I read Sooh pretty well (I read her as town far earlier than you or Cory in Worlds End, and she was an easy, early town read, albeit one I kept tinfoiling on in GnD) :)

Because I agree that particularly yesterday she was 'off' and there are still moments when I end up scratching my head and wondering why? When normally I can follow her pretty easily and in the best games can basically +1 any of her posts. That being said, she says she was ill and people are 'off' when they're ill. The obvious relevant example is you in Nightmare Before Christmas, when ~everybody was mafia reading you because you were 'off' but it meant nothing because you were ill. You were given time and when you came back were your usual Zanderself.

As of yesterday I had her as null, because although she's 'off' there's a RL explanation for it, BUT a mafia read from somebody that uses meta doesn't surprise me at all. This morning I thought she sounded ok, maybe up to a weakish town read, but objectively she's not out of the mafia range I have for her. Her points on you I don't understand and drop her down again, and I'm waiting for her to explain them and link to posts she means. Her using 'tone', when she's the first person to publicly acknowledge your changed style and Cory's influence is 'odd' and currently the key thing I want to reread.

Was Belichick your first mafia game?

Sooh · February 3, 2016

But his reads list is so SO different to what I'm thinking it has me concerned. Admittedly some of my positions have clarified in the past couple of hours so it's not fair to judge him on that

ftr, I don't think disagreement on reads should elicit bad juju in itself. Lack of backing that up with a reasonable explanation should.

Do you feel this is the case Nyn? Are you caught up and if so do you have a reads list?

this conversation feels very familiar

I'm not sure I completely buy Sooh's earlier response either

Buy which response?

Oh, and before I forget. Zander, you're not at all Zander this game. You seem hostile, defensive, FOSing everyone (at least until recalibrating with Cory), and I don't see at all the townie Zander that I've come to expect. This has nothing to do with volume. It has to do with tone. You're using vocabulary that seems un-Zander and that is why I'll

[unvote]

[v]Zander[/v]

Do you feel like this equates to his scum game, though? You're taking about how it's different from his usual town game. That's fine. But there's another comparison you failed to explore. Is this how he plays as scum, in your opinion? From what I can tell this is different from how he plays, period.

I haven't played with Zander for most of his scum games, so I'm working from memory as to how he seemed to me during those games, and this is the tone I remember from probably his first scum game. Not his latest though. Let's call him an enigma, and I'll move on if anything else presents itself or I get convinced he's town.

This response caused me to once again feel the emotion of humor.

My first scum game was Bellicheat where the vast majority had me as a Town read till I got into POE towards the end.

In baseball we refer to this as "Swing and a misssssss"

I wasn't in that game. I read it and I read you in it. You gave off this tone throughout from what I remember. Why is this so humorous?

Nolder · February 3, 2016

You know...maybe Alanna was right about Eldrick being awkward or off.

I'm starting to get that feeling as well. I'm not sure if it's the way he puts things or that he's usually so agreeable or what but it doesn't feel right.

I don't remember feeling this way about him in past games ftr.

Zander? · February 3, 2016

But his reads list is so SO different to what I'm thinking it has me concerned. Admittedly some of my positions have clarified in the past couple of hours so it's not fair to judge him on that

ftr, I don't think disagreement on reads should elicit bad juju in itself. Lack of backing that up with a reasonable explanation should.

Do you feel this is the case Nyn? Are you caught up and if so do you have a reads list?

this conversation feels very familiar

I'm not sure I completely buy Sooh's earlier response either

Buy which response?

Oh, and before I forget. Zander, you're not at all Zander this game. You seem hostile, defensive, FOSing everyone (at least until recalibrating with Cory), and I don't see at all the townie Zander that I've come to expect. This has nothing to do with volume. It has to do with tone. You're using vocabulary that seems un-Zander and that is why I'll

[unvote]

[v]Zander[/v]

Do you feel like this equates to his scum game, though? You're taking about how it's different from his usual town game. That's fine. But there's another comparison you failed to explore. Is this how he plays as scum, in your opinion? From what I can tell this is different from how he plays, period.

I haven't played with Zander for most of his scum games, so I'm working from memory as to how he seemed to me during those games, and this is the tone I remember from probably his first scum game. Not his latest though. Let's call him an enigma, and I'll move on if anything else presents itself or I get convinced he's town.

This response caused me to once again feel the emotion of humor.

My first scum game was Bellicheat where the vast majority had me as a Town read till I got into POE towards the end.

In baseball we refer to this as "Swing and a misssssss"

I wasn't in that game. I read it and I read you in it. You gave off this tone throughout from what I remember. Why is this so humorous?

I find it humorous because you knowingly admit Im not playing as I ever had before earlier and are now trying to use Meta to justify your read on me then saying well I'm just going off memory so don't hold me to it type responses. You're voting me and saying I'm the scummiest player for you in the game yet you havent substantiated a single point of your case against me.

BFG · February 3, 2016

After I posted that I'd try to catch up today, I did catch up. I can't focus on the game today. My favorite cat appears to be dying. At least he is acting like a previous cat did when he was in renal failure. I'm a mess and I'm not going to post because I probably won't make any sense.

Really sorry to hear that Lily

BFG · February 3, 2016

But his reads list is so SO different to what I'm thinking it has me concerned. Admittedly some of my positions have clarified in the past couple of hours so it's not fair to judge him on that

ftr, I don't think disagreement on reads should elicit bad juju in itself. Lack of backing that up with a reasonable explanation should.

Agreed. And some of my reasons for disagreeing are... not great, I'll go into details later

Nynaeve · February 3, 2016

I haven't played with Zander for most of his scum games, so I'm working from memory as to how he seemed to me during those games, and this is the tone I remember from probably his first scum game. Not his latest though. Let's call him an enigma, and I'll move on if anything else presents itself or I get convinced he's town.

If it's a tone thing, that's fine because it's a subjective take. But saying he plays differently is not gonna cut it as a reason because you're being one sided.

I think that as scum it's much easier to conform to your typical town game to put the rest of the players at ease. Playing dramatically different from how you usually play typically attracts negative attention by default. Zander would have to be some ballsy scum SOB to take this road when the other one would be significantly safer and so much less of a headache.

I guess we'll see.

Nynaeve · February 3, 2016

Do you feel this is the case Nyn? Are you caught up and if so do you have a reads list?

I'm not done catching up properly, no. I'm trying to do that while also participating in real time and it's making me lag. What I said to BFG wasn't specific to her feelings on you, though. I just think that feeling differently about reads shouldn't be a reason to suspect someone, unless this is someone that usually sees things the same way you do. The reasoning is usually what I look at.

BFG · February 3, 2016

But his reads list is so SO different to what I'm thinking it has me concerned. Admittedly some of my positions have clarified in the past couple of hours so it's not fair to judge him on that

ftr, I don't think disagreement on reads should elicit bad juju in itself. Lack of backing that up with a reasonable explanation should.

What in my post makes you think I'm reading him based solely on that? It is affecting my opinion as are the rest of his posts :unsure:

Glad you're feeling better.

At the moment I'm mixed on Zander, our conversation yesterday about my "reads" felt similar to the conversation last game about votes. He's looking at lots of people and Zander is naturally defensive...

But his reads list is so SO different to what I'm thinking it has me concerned. Admittedly some of my positions have clarified in the past couple of hours so it's not fair to judge him on that

Eldrick4221 · February 3, 2016

After I posted that I'd try to catch up today, I did catch up. I can't focus on the game today. My favorite cat appears to be dying. At least he is acting like a previous cat did when he was in renal failure. I'm a mess and I'm not going to post because I probably won't make any sense.

Nooooo. :(

BFG · February 3, 2016

nvm you said it was a generic comment

Nynaeve · February 3, 2016

What in my post makes you think I'm reading him based solely on that? It is affecting my opinion as are the rest of his posts

You said that you were concerned that his read list was so so different from yours. I guess I don't understand why it should be.

Nynaeve · February 3, 2016

I did it along with the fact I also have CoryGOAT <3 <3 <3 reading the game with me, so you know he's kinda a big deal and has told me we are solving the game early. #SOUL/GUTREADS FTW

Ugh.

Eldrick4221 · February 3, 2016

You know...maybe Alanna was right about Eldrick being awkward or off.

I'm starting to get that feeling as well. I'm not sure if it's the way he puts things or that he's usually so agreeable or what but it doesn't feel right.

I don't remember feeling this way about him in past games ftr.

/shrug

I'm weird. I get mislynched for it a lot. I just try to do what I can with the time I have.

bgrishinko · February 3, 2016

One of the things that has bugged me so far was Lily's vote changes. I went back and ISO'd her. They do seem more fluid and towny in that light.

Research Complete. Looks like you are right here Eld, you weren't the first to bring it up, but your timing felt way out of whack from when it was brought up the day before. You had had a lot posts between this and the main previous mention of it. I had forgotten all about this as a point that was made before.

[...]

Anyone else bothered by Lilly backing off her votes at the slightest hint of questioning???

I am. I don't remember if this is normal for her or not, but I noticed it too.

Hmm, ok you didn't mention till here that I found, and this is only a few hours before your ISO post above. So it does seem you were simply reacting here. Looks like Zander brought it up initially and you agreed with him. Of course there was some mention of it when it first happened on page 5 or 6.

So after a reread with CoryGOAT, here is where I am atp:

[v] unvote [/v]

Thane- Engaged and committed

Nyn- Making good observations and points. Decent presence ITT.

BFG- More active then Id expect as a wolf!BFG atp

Alanna- I didnt hate her response to my question. I'm more worried about her atp then Cory is.

BG- Null and dont know him really. Want to hear his response to my question.

Nolder- I think we came back weird for just about every post of his. But Nol posts weird so Null

Turin- Here for now. Wanna see some more content before passing judgement as I was wrong on him in the last game.

Pral- Need more to go off of.

Lily- This is one spot were kinda were I differ from Cory he has her higher and has more experience with her then me as I have none. But I wasnt a fan of her switching off her votes as soon as questions arose.

Eldrick- Feels very forced

Sooh- Sooh is sick but I feel like after last game Sooh should be Town telling better atp. Also something I noted was her Null stance on Eld. May be nothing but where I have them both scummy its something I noticed.

[v] Sooh [/v]

Could just as easily vote Eld atp.

Zander was the main instigator of it.

Anyway, you've proven your point. It checks out. [unvote]

Sooh · February 3, 2016

Must be split into parts because DM

Zander ISO:

First post was pretty null.

Vote Eldrick

Cuz I said I would. Family love and all that.

Vote Eldrick

Cuz I said I would. Family love and all that.

Nice of you to stick to your guns from signup.

After very careful thought and deliberation, I don't know if I'm buying this whole Mother/Son shtick. It feel feels like its forced and somewhat contrived. I think this kind of gambit is much likely to come from a Scum!Lilly and Scum!Eldrick POV..

It feels like they have an agenda and are already setting the stage for some sort of claim later in the game.

I mean I feel like they're really trying hard to sell us this connection or relationship but with this type of obvious gambit no one is buying into this in my opinion.

This whole post does not read like a joke, as it was later said to be. It sounds very serious and very reaching in terms of casing. Would it have been better with "lolololololol"? Quite possibly.

Vote Eldrick

Cuz I said I would. Family love and all that.

Vote Eldrick

Cuz I said I would. Family love and all that.
Nice of you to stick to your guns from signup.

After very careful thought and deliberation, I don't know if I'm buying this whole Mother/Son shtick. It feel feels like its forced and somewhat contrived. I think this kind of gambit is much likely to come from a Scum!Lilly and Scum!Eldrick POV..

It feels like they have an agenda and are already setting the stage for some sort of claim later in the game.

I mean I feel like they're really trying hard to sell us this connection or relationship but with this type of obvious gambit no one is buying into this in my opinion.

That's an interesting point of view. Shame there's nothing to it. She did what she said she was going to do in signup, and I appreciate her doing so. I feel signup is part of the game.

What's done here because of there can't be alignment indicative, but appreciated nonetheless.

Whats interesting about a joke where I implied that I said I wasnt buying you both being mother and son and also where did I mention anything about the signup part? Also just about anything CAN be alignment indicative.

This response feels ACTUALLY does feel forced coming from Eldrick. and why FEEL the need to state anything here at all.

I dont like this response.

Eldrick.... Zander promised to keep it down.... i expect you to do the same *glare*

also: HI frands!!

Maybe its just me but is Thane not offering people a drink but growling them seem off to anyone else?

The CAPS and the STRESS on CERTAIN words makes the TONE of the post DIFFERENT. It sounds to me like an attack for misunderstanding a joke.

Post #111 gives me no read.

Post #114 also pretty neutral or actually a slight plus for Zan.

Post #116 Sussing BFG for meta reasons, otherwise neutral.

Vote Eldrick

Cuz I said I would. Family love and all that.

Vote Eldrick

Cuz I said I would. Family love and all that.
Nice of you to stick to your guns from signup.

After very careful thought and deliberation, I don't know if I'm buying this whole Mother/Son shtick. It feel feels like its forced and somewhat contrived. I think this kind of gambit is much likely to come from a Scum!Lilly and Scum!Eldrick POV..

It feels like they have an agenda and are already setting the stage for some sort of claim later in the game.

I mean I feel like they're really trying hard to sell us this connection or relationship but with this type of obvious gambit no one is buying into this in my opinion.

That's an interesting point of view. Shame there's nothing to it. She did what she said she was going to do in signup, and I appreciate her doing so. I feel signup is part of the game.

What's done here because of there can't be alignment indicative, but appreciated nonetheless.

Whats interesting about a joke where I implied that I said I wasnt buying you both being mother and son and also where did I mention anything about the signup part? Also just about anything CAN be alignment indicative.

This response feels ACTUALLY does feel forced coming from Eldrick. and why FEEL the need to state anything here at all.

I dont like this response.

Eldrick.... Zander promised to keep it down.... i expect you to do the same *glare*

also: HI frands!!

Maybe its just me but is Thane not offering people a drink but growling them seem off to anyone else?

Lol Zan. You don't buy them being mother and son? Did I read that right? They are mother and son.

joke
jōk/
noun
noun: joke; plural noun: jokes

    1.
    a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, especially a story with a funny punchline.
    "she was in a mood to tell jokes"
    synonyms: funny story, jest, witticism, quip; More
    pun, play on words;
    informalgag, wisecrack, crack, one-liner, rib-tickler, knee-slapper, thigh-slapper, punch-line, groaner
    "they were telling jokes"
        a trick played on someone for fun.
        synonyms: trick, practical joke, prank, lark, stunt, hoax, jape; informalspoof
        "playing stupid jokes"
        informal
        a person or thing that is ridiculously inadequate.
        "the transportation system is a joke"
        synonyms: laughingstock, object of ridicule, stooge, butt; More
        informalAunt Sally
        "he soon became a joke to us"
        farce, travesty, waste of time
        "the present system is a joke"

verb
verb: joke; 3rd person present: jokes; past tense: joked; past participle: joked; gerund or present participle: joking

    1.
    make jokes; talk humorously or flippantly.
    "she could laugh and joke with her colleagues"
    synonyms: tell jokes, crack jokes; More

Apparently no one understands this concept and also Im not very good at making one either.....

Yes I know they are mother and son hence I made the comment jokingly.

But I guess Zander 2.0 isnt supposed to joke at all.

Sounds almost sulky. Nobody said you couldn't make jokes.

So I had to look up my character from the show and he's kind of a big deal.

Also [v] Alanna [/v] for making stuff up.

Claim plus sussing Laine. (Making stuff up?)

Aaaaand that's what I get for posting as I read along. Zander's claiming it was a joke. Didn't read like a joke to me. But what's even crazier to me is Alanna and Sooh's responses. My first thought was that Alanna was pushing her scummate's case. Zander, you're not off the hook yet, but...

Unvote

Vote Alannalynn

This quick shift is hella strange. Im not familiar with Lilly but this is a whole pile of wth.

Thing is, Zander. It didn't read like a joke. It was too elaborately reasoned for being a joke vote.

Would you have felt differently if I had added lolololololol to it?

What was "elaborate" about it....that you thought I actually thought them "claiming" to be mother and son was a gambit??

Like this is just an awful conclusion to come to imo.

I agree with his point on Lily. He's still stubbornly refusing to accept that people didn't read his post as a joke. (That is actually fairly towny in terms of Zandermeta).

Sooh · February 3, 2016

Kind of a weird switch by Lily IMHO, willing to pursue.

[unvote]

[v]Lily[/v]

I'm giving Zander the benefit of the doubt, since he said it was a joke, but not ruling him as scum out yet. What's weird about that?

What's weird is that Laine was pushing Zander who you're not ruling out as a suspect, and then you turn around and vote her.

Okay. I see your point. Haven't you heard of distancing before?

Of course. It's just very early and calling attention to both Laine herself and her teammate if that's what she was doing. I don't see that as smart scum play especially this early on in the game.

Aaaaand that's what I get for posting as I read along. Zander's claiming it was a joke. Didn't read like a joke to me. But what's even crazier to me is Alanna and Sooh's responses. My first thought was that Alanna was pushing her scummate's case. Zander, you're not off the hook yet, but...

Unvote

Vote Alannalynn

This quick shift is hella strange. Im not familiar with Lilly but this is a whole pile of wth.

Thing is, Zander. It didn't read like a joke. It was too elaborately reasoned for being a joke vote.

Would you have felt differently if I had added lolololololol to it?

What was "elaborate" about it....that you thought I actually thought them "claiming" to be mother and son was a gambit??

Like this is just an awful conclusion to come to imo.

I feel like Zander as a joke would have said that "Mother and Son, huh? Well that's an awful gambit!", but instead you went on to explain why it would be a gambit and how it was bad, and it just didn't read like a Zanderjoke should. You know how scum sometimes feel the need to overly justify their votes? It felt a bit more like it could be in that general direction.

Did I vote? In that general direction... Please re read this and the posts you made concerning me and see if you can find why I find this answer of yours to be quite ironic.

I still don't really understand what he's talking about here.

#151 - null

1, Apparently nobody can tell I'm joking without me adding lololololololol.

2. Wow Nyn's willing to give me the benefit of the doubt. Duly noted.

1. Try to say something funny next time. That might help. ftr I thought you were totally serious in that post. It didn't come across like a joke at all.

2. Consider it temporary sympathy for your life choices.

1. I like to think Im funny every once in awhile tho.

what happened the past two pages? Temporary insanity? Reads like it, sheesh.

Can you please elaborate on what you thought exactly by temporary insanity specifically?

"I don't know if I'm buying this whole Mother/Son shtick"

Above was a direct quote from my opening post. Reading comprehension is important. The reactions obtained from this are quite strange to me, With Alanna's and somewhat Sooh's being the worst. Its forced and redundant? I doubt if you felt that way you'd "agree" with half it especially the part where you "claim" that I said Eld comes off more awkward cause I dont say that AT ALL in my post.

Would you have felt differently if I had added lolololololol to it?

What was "elaborate" about it....that you thought I actually thought them "claiming" to be mother and son was a gambit??

Like this is just an awful conclusion to come to imo.

My reading comprehension is fine. It sounded like you were implying that they were using something from sign up (ie Lily saying she'd vote Eld cause he's her son) as a gambit. I wasn't totally clear on what you meant as whole (going on about setting up a claim or whatnot) but the post read serious. So if you're saying that you were joking, that's fine. But, #realtalk, don't adopt this attitude that it's all on everyone else, You weren't clear. Own up to it and don't dump it on everyone else, amkay? Good.

Fair enough but I have to play differently now to adjust for my style that was annoying people. So in doing so to appease others, yes I have to try to convey things in a manner that people can understand but I also expect others to make a concerted effort to try and work with me and meet in the middle.

I guess more then a few people read it wrong so that's on me. Point conceded to you here.

What did you make of Alanna's comment that I implied Eld was more awkward?

This doesn't come across as Zander to me at all. The word choices are just too meticulous. I know Nyn also pointed out the language in this one.

#171 - Oh so formal Zander. Pretty nullish though.

Zander, if this is Cory's influence that makes you like this it's really messing with my ability to read you.

prolly relevant?

First #Zanderpost of the game.

#177 again very formal.

#178 null

Why ok Cory? The only thing Cory's said to me is that I'm not allowed to be Post Count leader, he's busy and that the 1st 1-2 seasons of the show is good.

For better or worse youre strictly dealing with just me.

As for the Alanna response, I'm also quite interested in hearing her response.

The fact that by your own admission Cory has had nothing in particular to do with this tone change also bothers me a bit. It's a huge difference from who you normally are, and you have to have expected reactions.

#184 nullish, still very formal

#204 nullish, formal

#206 I can't make my mind up.

#210 null, almost Zanderish

#212 null

#218 null

#220 reads list ~ok. Worked through with Cory. One thing though, Thane is top of his town list in his reads, but then in #223 Zander posts:

Zander, can you talk about your Thane read? Yesterday you seemed suspicious of him for a difference in his posting style, now he's a strongish town read, what changed?

Only thing i thought off was his not offering a drink. lolololol. i didnt mention anything about his style. He seems comfortable. He seems more confident as well and ready to commit to the game with his "i can get on at work" comment. Scum!Thane could easily hide behind that imo.

where he seems to think that Thane could still be a wolf.

Before #220:

So far in the game Zander has sussed Lily, Eldrick (initially as a joke), Thane (joke?), BFG (sounds serious enough), Laine, Sooh, BG (maybe, not strongly),

He has good feelings about Nyn as expressed in several posts.

So, apparently formal!Zander reads as hostile!Zander to sick brain.

I AM taking into account what Nyn said, and I realize that I am not remembering every single part of this thread as clearly as I probably should (evidenced further by me not really having any other proper reads yet). I AM also keeping my vote for now, because I can't see townie Zan, and because that character claim was really bad.

When (if) I see someone more scummy I'm obviously going to change my vote.

Shad_ · February 3, 2016

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Nolder(1): Turin

Sooh(2): Pralaya, Zander

Zander(1): Sooh

bgrishinko(1): Eldrick

Not Voting: alannalynn, BFG, Thane, Lily, Nolder, Nynaeve, bgrishinko

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Clovdyx · February 3, 2016

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Nolder(1): Turin

Sooh(2): Pralaya, Zander

Zander(1): Sooh

bgrishinko(1): Eldrick

Not Voting: alannalynn, BFG, Thane, Lily, Nolder, Nynaeve, bgrishinko

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day phase ends at 4:00 PM EST on 2/4.

FTFS

Zander? · February 3, 2016

Cause Hostile and Formal are commonly mistaken for the other??

Asking in QT if I'm legit allowed to just lolololololol a post.

Nynaeve · February 3, 2016

Because I wanted to. Also after learning about my character, I found out he had a brother, Knowing I'm Town. I gotta assume that when someone claims the brother, it pretty much has to be a Town character claim imo.

WIFOM

Wow.

This is just really terrible.

In a game where the mod has confirmed that mafia has fake claims you have to assume they have been given at least one main character to boost their claim.

And more WIFOM.

After I posted that I'd try to catch up today, I did catch up. I can't focus on the game today. My favorite cat appears to be dying. At least he is acting like a previous cat did when he was in renal failure. I'm a mess and I'm not going to post because I probably won't make any sense.

I'm sorry to hear that, hon. Take your time *hugs*

Shad_ · February 3, 2016

Never made one of these before. I AM SO PROUD OF MYSELF

Shad_ · February 3, 2016

It was 1pm PST, right?....

Zander? · February 3, 2016

Player Roster:

1. Turin

2. Zander

3. Sooh

4. Nolder

5. Laine

6. Nyn

7. Pral

8. Eldrick

9. Lily

10. Thane

11. BGrishinko

12. BFG

These were dark times, alright, but the Winchesters were used to it. With good friends, good weapons, and more stubbornness than was natural, they would rid the world of the demons who terrorized innocent people. The only problem was, they could look like anyone. It was time to do some hunting.

It is now Day One! A deadline has been set for Thursday, February 4^th at 1pm. (I fly out at 5pm, so I wanted to make certain I would be here.)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Open for interpretation?

Sooh · February 3, 2016

After I posted that I'd try to catch up today, I did catch up. I can't focus on the game today. My favorite cat appears to be dying. At least he is acting like a previous cat did when he was in renal failure. I'm a mess and I'm not going to post because I probably won't make any sense.

Oh no! I missed this post! I'm so sorry to hear, Lily! *hugs*

Nyn, I hope your dog is ok too! I meant to say that earlier!

[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

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