World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Shad_]

 

 

 

And to clarify, I'm not saying this makes Nikon more likely to be a wolf - he should catch up fully and post his thoughts fully and then a better judgment can be made - but I'm not giving a villager read to someone for reading the thread, hammering on the Lenlo topic, and concluding that "someone is wolfy between Lenlo and Pizza", all things that are best regurgitations of other opinions in thread. Certainly he could have read and came up with that himself, but I'm not the type of the person to make assessments out of thin air.

 

What drew you to the conclusion that I thought he was town?

 

 

Well...

 

 

 

 but I can't help but think scum would be a little beyond that topic by now?  Like, someone who subbed in today as scum and did a modest skim to make sure he didn't facepalm out the gate should probably recognize that it's just not a good topic to argue at this point.  And I don't know if that lack of awareness before posting makes him town, but if he's scum he's rather oblivious scum.  It's something to consider at least.

 

I am going to ask you one question. You're not new now - you've played more then a handful of times, and especially you have seen Mafia QTs at this point and read them - exactly how many times have you seen extremely co-ordinated efforts by teams to limit discussion topics for their teammates and really guide teammates on what to post?

 

 

Nearly never, but off the top of my head I can't think of any player besides Darthe and Salami who would realistically show up really late to a game as scum and not try to get some grasp of current trends before posting, and it's probably been the most discussed topic of this game so far.

 

 

 

 

 

Nikon!

 

Do you think you could briefly summarize your thoughts over all?

 

and irt Besie being 'tied' to Zander they were hydras in the game Len was referring to

 

 

Im waiting for the same thing.  What were your thoughts in general concerning his posts?

 

but I can't help but think scum would be a little beyond that topic by now?  Like, someone who subbed in today as scum and did a modest skim to make sure he didn't facepalm out the gate should probably recognize that it's just not a good topic to argue at this point.  And I don't know if that lack of awareness before posting makes him town, but if he's scum he's rather oblivious scum.  It's something to consider at least.

 

 

 

I get the "but if he's scum he's rather oblivious scum" tack-on as your indicator you are unsure of his alignment, but considering the majority of the content is "well I don't think scum would do this" and "well I don't think scum would do that", I would guess the conclusion that is closer to your heart is that the person is not scum. It's what you are feeding up for consideration, at least.

 

 

I don't hate that answer. 

[Zander?]

Cory answer your own question from earlier for me.....if you had a gun right now who do you shoot and why?

[Zander?]

Im also quite upset that I received a book of assorted Christmas Chocolates without the instruction manual!!!!  I mean wtf am I supposed to do???  Randomly try them and risk biting into a gross one???!!!  Not likely.....But then again.....YOLO.....i suppose.......

 

#THESTRUGGLEISREAL

[Cory Caboose]

Pizza. Might be unique to the set-up, because I think as a villager he can be a great asset and since we have the android mechanic we don't risk losing his voice by resolving his alignment (and hell, by clarifying it we give him a nice little platform to speak from if we are wrong). I'm not sure I'd ever want him dead d1 in a standard set-up because I'm not a Big Game Hunter type, but that's assuaged here pretty firmly.

 

With that said, I think he has a more than fair degree of wolf equity, is generally a range-y player who hasn't been deep into his villager range, and is in a game where I don't think a lot of players have been overtly wolfy which drags down his slot. I'm also weighing your read into it because I'm more of an LBJ than a Kobe and I'm happy with throwing my weight around with the few people I feel I can trust this game.

 

None of that goes with the "shoot a wolf you win, shoot a villager you lose" concept of my little game, to be fair. That shot I might reserve for Nikon.

[Shad_]

Like there isn't a fun grey area in this game (and I don't feel like discussion third party implications because we've had enough inane discussions at this point). You either think A or B or you don't know. If you are going to outline a bunch of internal reasons you think something is unlikely to be A, I am going to assume you think the answer is B.

 

Eh, I'm going to try and make the most of what little content I have, and it's about as committal as the reads people drop four pages into a game.  I'm trying to look at what Nikon's thought process probably is if he is a wolf, and if that makes me nudge a little towards a gut feeling that he's town it's not one I'm inclined towards enough to say out loud.  But being able to say if he is a wolf it's under x criteria is at least something to start with.

[Cory Caboose]

And I'm just making sure you know that I think your reasons for making that specific read are silly 

[Shad_]

That job is usually reserved for AJ. 

[Pralaya]

I will do a VC in a couple of hours, as soon as I get to a laptop.

 

Meanwhile, deadline set at exactly 49 hours from now. Deadline on 29th December, 11:00 pm EST.

[dicetosser1]

 

 

Zander you have one bullet that you must fire and you have to shoot it as soon as you read this post. If you hit a wolf you win, if you hit a villager you lose.

 

Where's that bullet going?

 

Everyone is free to answer, but want Zander's answer the most.

 

Id either follow the Tress rule and shoot Nolder or shoot Tina

 

Interesting...

 

Does this make us hypothetical enemies?!?!

 

 

Only if your scum.

 

 

im just saying id follow a system tress has found should always be followed lol

[dicetosser1]

@cory re Nikon

 

Im liking what i see from him so far. Hes way behind but he was asking questions and while WE know the answer he doesnt yet. Also the question make sense coming from someone who hasnt played mafia in ages and who didnt play much then i dont think.

 

He seems to be working and thinking.  Want to see more but for now i wouldnt lynch him today

[Guest]

Morning peeps.

 

 

First,

My dog ate my reread

Bahahaha

 

And then,

 

My dog ate my reread

My dog ate my homework

He swallowed it whole

I shouldn't have mixed it

With food in his bowl

Ahahahaha It got even better.

 

And to clarify, I'm not saying this makes Nikon more likely to be a wolf - he should catch up fully and post his thoughts fully and then a better judgment can be made - but I'm not giving a villager read to someone for reading the thread, hammering on the Lenlo topic, and concluding that "someone is wolfy between Lenlo and Pizza", all things that are best regurgitations of other opinions in thread. Certainly he could have read and came up with that himself, but I'm not the type of the person to make assessments out of thin air.

Sounds like you're insinuating a scum team, Cory?

[Sooh]

*snip*

 

That honestly does make me sad.  But i really really dont think I've done anything that would actually upset you.  Only thing I did was disagree with your case on Besie,.  that's it.  I mean come on its Mafia, this type of stuff pretty much happens in almost every game.  Ive not been rude, or insulting at all.  Heck I havent even voted for you yet.  I dont see at all what you're "upset" about hence why I'm not able to buy into it my dear.

 

What's upsetting (yeah, no quotation marks) to me isn't that you don't agree with me. What's upsetting is that you can't see what I'm seeing, and also you have no other argument to support what you're seeing other than that "I see TownBesie". 

 

Also I hate patronizing.

[Sooh]

 

 

 

 

 

Zander, excluding the alt game we literally haven't towned together since April Fools... what's your approach as town, do you read people as a whole or on an individual post basis?

 

 

I find this question a little pointless because regardless of the fact if we've towned together, you've just seen how I Town in Nightmare but I will still certainly answer your question my dear.

 

WRECK THE WOLVES LIVES....HARD

 

I tend to use Meta as large part of my reads.  I will read things as a whole; but can change if something pings me (ie EoD in Nightmare for you and AJ )  But I'll be honest and others will prolly mention it as well (im pretty sure Cory already did this game).  I find strange things that set me off on people that most people, dont notice or doesn't make sense to them. But it certainly does work.

 

Let me know if theres anything else youre looking for BFG!!!!!

 

I don't understand you as a player and have misread you in pretty much every game I've been town in. I also don't really take meta from games I'm mafia in as I read the game differently.

 

Ok, your argument with Sooh where you talk about her being worried about you, Cory, Pizza over Besie, hence shouldn't she be blocking you guys... in her reads she has you and Cory as town so why would she want to block you? Pizza would be valid, maybe. Hence wondering if you read on a post by post basis as the argument seems theoretical rather than grounded in this game.

 

 

Blocking?????  What????? I don't get it???!!

 

The point I was making was that Sooh said something like Besie using her cunning to deceive or hurt Town something like that as part of her reason for sussing Besie.  I said it was strange that using that argument she chose to use it against Besie as opposed to me or Cory or Pizza who have deceived Town as Scum and wrecked it. (ie Matrix for me and Cory). 

 

And as far as Meta I think I proved that with Tab in Nightmare its a pretty effective tool for hunting Scum imo.

 

??? I have no problem using meta and use it myself

 

As I read it Sooh said that she'd block Besie as she has the potential to be cunning as mafia

You asked why not you, Cory or Pizza instead of Besie, all of whom can be cunning.

Sooh said something like why wouldn't Bessie be cunning

 

And the conversation sort of derailed from there.

 

The point is that Sooh is town reading you and Cory, so regardless of how cunning you can be, she's unlikely to choose to block you, a town read.

 

So asking why she wouldn't block you (and Cory) seems theoretical as the answer should be obvious. Pizza is excluded from this, as she's got him in orange as well.

 

 

 

There was nothing about Blocking in what we were talking about.  It was strictly from her reads list.

 

It was the reason and who she choose that made me question it.  Nothing to do with blocking.

 

Zander is right. The discussion was about why I wasn't suspecting anyone else whom I know to be cunning for being cunning when I did suspect Besie for that reason. 

 

BFG is also right in that I have been mostly townreading those people. I am capable of making wrong guesses, both about Besie and about my town reads, but I have to make a decision somewhere. 

[BFG]

Morning :)

 

Sorry, I completely fell asleep last night :/

[BFG]

Sooh! :)

[Sooh]

Hi BFG

[BFG]

Is Pizza's characterisation of his mafia game (when he says he doesn't like making enemies) fair?

[BFG]

(in your opinion)

[Askthepizzaguy]

Is Pizza's characterisation of his mafia game (when he says he doesn't like making enemies) fair?

 

Yes, it is.

[BFG]

Hi Pizza :)

 

Do you need time to catch up? I'll be around for a while

[Sooh]

Is Pizza's characterisation of his mafia game (when he says he doesn't like making enemies) fair?

Well I know he doesn't like making multiple powerful enemies early in game as scum. He tends to go for easier targets. 

 

You'll find that when he explains his meta to you as either alignment he's completely honest. He will do pretty much anything as any role.

 

Making enemies, however, is not usually part of his early scum game the way I've seen it. 

[Nolder]

I'm lurking if anyone has something to say to me but at the moment I have no input to give.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Last scum game I played on MTGS- lasted for many months. I avoided having more than one suspect at a time until a few Day phases into the game, which is a lot of weeks of play. It works, because victory. I was far more aggressive mid-game and endgame. That's the time to make enemies that you destroy and read strongly villager to people.

 

Last scum game I played on CFC- the first few days of play, I avoided having more than one suspect at a time, until I had destroyed all the townies who were on to me, and then I completely ruined the townies that remained. It works, because victory. I also should have been caught scum considering no nightkill until I replaced in, nightkill, and then I was roleblocked and no nightkill again. And I still beat perceptions because it's simple to beat perceptions when that's your aim.

 

Last scum game I played on 2+2- the first day of play, I didn't get into it with anyone, except the town's seer, who I nearly lynched and essentially forced to claim d2, which is when I died. I was the only wolf to die that game. It works, because victory. And the one before that, same deal. Don't rock the boat, don't stand out. It works, because victory.

 

I'm not counting the last game I was scum on Giraffe, because I began the game as town and was town for most of my efforts in that game, until I was recruited and I promptly died because of the enemies I made while I was a townie. Last scum game before that, I had been enjoying a long streak of wins as scum, because look how I function on Day One. Don't rock the boat, don't make waves, don't make enemies. Be calm, and reasonable, and less aggressive. It works, because victory. And the time before that, it works, because victory.

 

Seriously, check out those Giraffe games. It should take you five seconds to see the difference between those games and this one.

 

Oh, but pizza, all your aggression was on lenlo and you backed off!

 

Yep. But compare my aggression level in every single stinking one of those games to this game.

 

I'm a bleeping easy scum to find, and no one ever bothers to notice the actual differences that matter, and are consistent.

 

I don't change how I play scum, because it frigging works.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Without looking, and without wanting to look or link to it, I can even tell you that my day one on the last DM game I was in where I was scum, I was playing day one to look like a townie but not attract the opposing scum team's murder, or any vigilantes. And my suspects were limited, and I didn't push them.

 

Number of posts gonna be about the same level on average in the long term, but aggression level will always be lower.

 

Because it's the dumbest thing on the planet to give people reasons why you must be the next one to die, if your objective is to live.

 

If your objective is to make other players die, you must PUSH them to death, or determine that they should not die, whether they understand that you should also not die, or not.

 

That last part doesn't matter very much. All that matters is you lynch wolves and don't lynch townies. That's how you town. Wolves don't have to do that, all that matters to them is that they give the general appearance of same, without it being the same. Otherwise it's just lucky that town forgot to kill you.

 

A good wolf makes their own luck. I manipulate people into trusting me, I don't wait for it to happen by itself.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can go further back, chronologically, and link to more. This has been my scum pattern consistently in all non-turbo games since as long as I can remember. And if there's ever a difference, I can explain why it was ever more advantageous to make a mortal enemy this early in the game, and point it out, and weigh it five times as heavy as the other games, and the other games where I was not aggressive day one as scum will still outweigh them by a factor of 4 or more.

 

I don't lie about my meta. Ever.

 

I might frame my meta (the truth) in such a light that serves my own interests when I am scum, but I will, not, lie about it.