Defining DM Mafia Roles and Balance

[Leelou]

 

To clarify:  when having a beer with Yates and to avoid him continuing to look longingly into my eyes, I awkwardly changed to topic to DM Mafia.  We spoke, he kept trying to hold my hand, but we eventually spoke about how certain roles work, what should be known before hand, etc etc.

Way to throw me under the bus and make it look like *I* was the creeper there. I mean, a fella accepts a drink from another fella and certain expectations are set.

 

Plus. Look at the way you were dressed. You were ASKING for it in that vintage Star Wars tee.

 

 

I can attest that you are kinda sorta a creeper. :p 

[Yates]

I can attest that you are kinda sorta a creeper. :p

For the last time, that's my WORK panel van. I'm feeling like I'm being ganged up on.

[Barmacral]

I'm partial to a game style with a limited selection of roles that can be rotated in and out and are very clearly defined. I have no interest in playing the larger games with all kinds of crazy twists and such. Exceptions to that being DPR Suras games or any Kivam game. I've been there, they were fun, but not my cup of tea these days.

 

Back when we first created two tiers of games we had newbie and advanced. Newbie games were all open static games with the following roles: Cop / Doc / Symp / 1-shot Vig. They ran less frequently than the bigger games and the point of them was purely to allow new players an easier game to get a handle on how it all worked before they jumped into bigger games.

[Verbal32]

 

I can attest that you are kinda sorta a creeper. :p

For the last time, that's my WORK panel van. I'm feeling like I'm being ganged up on.

 

 

There was no candy in it, though.

[Songstress]

Would it upset everyone greatly if I just went ahead and created a new thread that listed about 25 roles and included descriptions for each one?

 

In fact, I could make it so mods could copy and paste the roles right into their games IF THEY SO CHOSE TO.

 

As a mod you could say, "we are using some of these roles" and link to my thread IF YOU WANTED TO.

 

Would this be less objectionable to everyone currently opposed to changing the world?

I personally would be fine with it, and likely to make use of it frequently, as long as there's input taken into consideration on which roles do and don't work for the "defined basic" list as well as definition of how the roles work.

 

I'm also fine with the idea of officially creating a distinction between "basic" newbie friendly (including open setup) games and "standard" with a larger list of possible roles and an expectation of no tricksy mechanics like recruiting or whatnot. Basic and Standard could share a queue, since there will still be a lot of overlap in the mod interest and player base.

 

Not so keen on Nolder's suggestion that games be cancelled if the signups aren't full in x number of days - especially with the number of people who aren't comfortable playing more than one game at a time, or people who have schedule conflicts, there will be a lot of games cancelled just because they came up in the queue at an inopportune time. We can have multiple games in signups at a time from the same queue, so it's not like if the player base is generally uninterested in a particular theme or open setup that it's preventing the next person from starting signups (or at least for any reason other than keeping the other mod from feeling bad).

[Leelou]

 

 

I can attest that you are kinda sorta a creeper. :p

For the last time, that's my WORK panel van. I'm feeling like I'm being ganged up on.

 

 

There was no candy in it, though.

 

 

Jerk. Not supplying candy. 

[Verbal32]

 

Would it upset everyone greatly if I just went ahead and created a new thread that listed about 25 roles and included descriptions for each one?

 

In fact, I could make it so mods could copy and paste the roles right into their games IF THEY SO CHOSE TO.

 

As a mod you could say, "we are using some of these roles" and link to my thread IF YOU WANTED TO.

 

Would this be less objectionable to everyone currently opposed to changing the world?

I personally would be fine with it, and likely to make use of it frequently, as long as there's input taken into consideration on which roles do and don't work for the "defined basic" list as well as definition of how the roles work.

 

I'm also fine with the idea of officially creating a distinction between "basic" newbie friendly (including open setup) games and "standard" with a larger list of possible roles and an expectation of no tricksy mechanics like recruiting or whatnot. Basic and Standard could share a queue, since there will still be a lot of overlap in the mod interest and player base.

 

Not so keen on Nolder's suggestion that games be cancelled if the signups aren't full in x number of days - especially with the number of people who aren't comfortable playing more than one game at a time, or people who have schedule conflicts, there will be a lot of games cancelled just because they came up in the queue at an inopportune time. We can have multiple games in signups at a time from the same queue, so it's not like if the player base is generally uninterested in a particular theme or open setup that it's preventing the next person from starting signups (or at least for any reason other than keeping the other mod from feeling bad).

 

 

Fantastic thought!  I would definitely be up for doing that.  As an example:

 

Queue 1 = basic or standard, with 1 of those being the suggestions that Yates/Tom/etc would like to see, and the other being the same as Basic is now....and Advanced would be the same as it is now as well.

[Clovdyx]

Would it upset everyone greatly if I just went ahead and created a new thread that listed about 25 roles and included descriptions for each one?

 

In fact, I could make it so mods could copy and paste the roles right into their games IF THEY SO CHOSE TO.

 

As a mod you could say, "we are using some of these roles" and link to my thread IF YOU WANTED TO.

 

Would this be less objectionable to everyone currently opposed to changing the world?

 

I don't really care what anybody does, but if anybody disagrees to THIS, I think they're just being difficult.  It's not forcing the mods to run games a certain way, nor is it forcing players to make assumptions on role mechanics.  Both are free to do so should they desire, but it still allows the mods freedom to make a role called "the doctor" that doesn't save anybody and instead randomly kills one player a night and gives you their role so you can assume their identity. 

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

oooh i like that.... can someone make that happen? bodysnatcher doctor?

[Ithillian Turambar]

Surely The Doctor would have a time travelling ability?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

and sonic powers ayup

[Ithillian Turambar]

My first game was a Basic. Everyone said a Basic was a Doc and a Cop and a GF and 2 goons and some vanilla Town.

 

But

 

It had a bloody Serial Killer in it too!

 

I felt so betrayed.

 

I got completely confused in the last game I played as I thought Standard meant Basic. It did not.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I only understand basic tho I enjoy reading standard and advanced.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

People seemed to enjoy Des bringing over the VS Hunt setup. Some of it is probably an affinity for flavor and mystery, but a lot of it is inertia too imo.

I don't know what you mean.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/88433-advanced-dragonmount-witchhunt-v10-signups-are-now-open-just-like-the-setup-p/

 

It's a complicated setup but entirely open.

It really is an amazing setup- and probably the only open role madness setup that you could find that I'd basically 100% balanced. Slightly unique mechanics, but nothing overly difficult to grasp. I def want to run it again at some point

 

And yeah the injokes were from another site but aren't really important to the setup or flavor or anything. I renamed the roles and could easily do so again. On VS itself, another iteration is about to be run and they're renaming the roles I think

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

People seemed to enjoy Des bringing over the VS Hunt setup. Some of it is probably an affinity for flavor and mystery, but a lot of it is inertia too imo.

I don't know what you mean.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/88433-advanced-dragonmount-witchhunt-v10-signups-are-now-open-just-like-the-setup-p/

 

It's a complicated setup but entirely open.

My favorite thing about this is Despot named the role that only becomes useful at/near endgame after himself.

 

I don't think you saw my first ever mafia game I ran on this site, I'd link to it if I wasn't lazy.

 

So my "thing" on DM for a while was that I was a Vampire Werewolf Zombie Rockstar, so I made a game where the scum team consisted of a Vampire, Werewolf, Zombie, and a Rockstar, and the main baddie was named Despothera and he was all 4 and had a 1 time unlynchable, 1 time BPV, and 1 time early phase change lol, so pretty OP.

 

Tbh it was actually more tongue in cheek and a play on the joke that I'm so self-obsessed. I also think it was a pretty fun setup, I might run that one too at some point

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

To clarify: when having a beer with Yates and to avoid him continuing to look longingly into my eyes, I awkwardly changed to topic to DM Mafia. We spoke, he kept trying to hold my hand, but we eventually spoke about how certain roles work, what should be known before hand, etc etc.

Way to throw me under the bus and make it look like *I* was the creeper there. I mean, a fella accepts a drink from another fella and certain expectations are set.

 

Plus. Look at the way you were dressed. You were ASKING for it in that vintage Star Wars tee.

I can attest that you are kinda sorta a creeper. :p

NO ONE CAN OUTCREEP ME!!!!!

 

*points to earlier post in this thread*

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I loved that game but the font... Oysh....

[Alanna]

I don't really have a problem with defining roles like doc and cop. I'm not really super "for it" because I can't help but feel that it's a bit...silly (I don't mean to be insulting, just not sure what other word to use here), but that's likely just because I've played here for a long time without such definitions and it's never bothered me. But if it bothers others, I don't mind. If I want to run a non-basic game and makes tweaks on those roles, I would just use other terms (I kind of prefer the old terms we used to use for doc and cop anyway, healer and finder :D).

 

Was going to suggest what Tress did about Basic and Standard sharing a queue, because that would be my only concern with a 3 tier system - not enough player base for 3 queues at once.

[Alanna]

 

 

 

I don't think playing an open setup is a good way to learn how to play closed setups. There are plenty of tactics that don't overlap. DM Basic games were one of two open setups once upon a time though. We did have a bit of a problem getting mods and players for those sometimes.

I think there's a big difference between learning to play mafia with an open setup and learning to play mafia with a closed setup.

One is unambiguous and good for learning, the other presents an extra layer to the puzzle you're already facing.

Obviously playing an open setup isn't a good way to learn to play closed setups...but it is a good way to learn how to play mafia.

I disagree. Open setups often lead to lots of claims and clearing people based on them. That is not a good way to learn to play mafia imo.

I hate that I agree with basically every post Wombat makes in this thread. I'm already prob too big a fanboi of his, now it's just getting ridiculous

 

 

LOL.

[Andrej]

I think it might be time to start considering the 4 game rule.

 

Might be time we limit the Mafia board to 1-2 games in progress with one in sign ups ready to run when one of the other two finish.

 

Frankly I just don't think we have the player base to run multiple games anymore and I don't like having to choose.

[Andrej]

Basic(Standard)/Advanced set ups would be up to the Mod what they wanted to run when they put their sign ups out.

 

In order to avoid blanking the current waiting lists we could simply swap one-for-one from each until it is cleared then create just one mod cue

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

so many rules....

 

these things will happen organically.

 

no need for rules no one has the time or GAF to enforce

[Andrej]

I'm proposing to streamline the queue and sign up process.

 

There's no need to have 3-4 games waiting in sign ups for ONE to finish simply because we can't supply enough players to fill them all. Keep it limited.

 

If it comes down to it I'll sign on to be a Mod here. I'm sure many others would as well. A lack of GAF isn't the issue - it's that there isn't enough scrutiny for potentially broken games/roles/designs that hurt the Mafia community as a whole.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

there is one mod for this board and he doesn't need to babysit it.

 

mods will police their own Signups, make smaller games, and wait longer.

 

the staff, not the mods, the actual admin staff to deal with all the structure you think you need doesn't exist.

 

it'll be ok.

 

sign up for what you want to play and the rest will sort itself out.

 

this isn't a military organization, it just rolls as it will.

 

it'll be ok. I promise.

 

and when all the mafia is done and the board goes to sleep it will still be ok.

[Andrej]

I'm not holding my breath tbh but your input is appreciated nonetheless.

 

I should think before I speak before my betters next time.