[Advanced] House MD Mafia - Mafia Victory!

[Tommyrod]

And no offense to AJ, but I don't think he could play this organically as scum. I saw him in the last game. T'was a travesty. 

[Andrej]

Meh, none taken. I statistically have more experience as town than scum, so yeah. I think I may have been roled scum maybe 5 times? out of like 20 or so games.

[michellem]

No idea what GOAT means.

 

 

And lol Hallia. Your town read disappeared because I read a player correctly? That's... logical.

[Tommyrod]

Captain Hindsight says: we should have just CFD'd onto scumbat

[Tommyrod]

No idea what GOAT means.

 

 

And lol Hallia. Your town read disappeared because I read a player correctly? That's... logical.

 

[WWWwombat]

I did google countertransference, Darthe.  I don't see why it wouldn't be based on Dap's past games and therefore a null tell.  But I ain't no psychologist.  There's plenty of scummy crap Dap has done, but that's not part of it imo.

 

 

Also, as for your reads, look back at my reads and you'll see what I mean.

[Darthe]

Certainly I will.  Mind specifying what I should look at in particular?

[Turin Turambar]

some quotes from Pralaya. And then my summary of the events of the day. I am interested to find out what happened and how Pralaya ended up lynched.

 

first the early game interaction between Pral and CS(now AJ)

 

 

 

Fishing, Wombat?

Are you scum?

 

I'm town. I win with town. That's the only way I can win.

 

 

Fishing, Wombat?

Are you scum?

 

Why do you ask me in particular?

 

Just curious.
Why so serious?

So so contrived
That whole interaction feels hollow

 

Contrived? No. Pointless? Maybe.
It was at a time when the game was not even properly started. Although, it is good that you pointed it out. Getting a town feel on you.

Most of the people went for the easy-prey Csarmi.
Des did. TGlems did, although he deleted that post, I think.

Darthe and Amega went after Des though, for similar responses.

I bet a couple of scum are lying in these names.

 

now we KNOW that Pral was town, so he had no ulterior motive to his questioning. Dap's wording here is weak as it is all feel and can be taken back as "meh, I was wrong" Here Pral also gives his thoughts about what happened afterward. Despo and TG jump on CS for claiming in a way that they felt was not warranted. TG kind of backs off but Despo never really does. He just switches to another target when the CS train dies out. Oddly enough one of the people that went after him for chasing CS. 

 

Speaking of which how many people has Des voted already?

Turin. Joke vote.

Checking in!

Vote Turin

Cause he's prob already tunneling me.

Early fishing vote
 

Bolded=buddying. First actual ping of the game. Let's start here.

Unvote, Vote Wombat

Scummy csarmi vote
 

 

My opinion is that when you're town, you tend to hurt town more than help it.

 
1. Coming from you, this is freaking hilarious. There's a reason your play gets compared to EP and Ley a bunch.
 
2. Just wildly untrue. I almost never lose as town, and when I do it's usually cause I was NK'ed early.
 

4. I don't even think you believe this.
 
Unvote, Vote Fishlami.

 

OMGUS amega vote
 

I'm FAR more often town than scum. It must be Darthe or Cloud you're thinking of, those dudes are ALWAYS mafia.
 
And you just started playing again after like, a year hiatus. Small sample size alert?
 
Also could be fake imo. Plus it's a nudge. Me no likee nudges.
 
Vote Amega.

A reasoned vote on Darthe
 

What what WHAT?

That's like the scummiest thing Ive ever heard you say Day 1.

And you're Darthe.

Unvote, Vote Darthe

Not to mention hundreds of nudges in between.

He isn't town. Nope.

vote Des

Here is where Pral lists Despo's voting history in the game up to that point. And ties him up with TG as the vote leader. 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol tom you may as well read this. Youll have a field day

 

Hehe buddying Tommy eh? How surprising. You want him to rescue you out of the hole you're in, dontcha?

 

Okay Tommy you are LOCK CLEAR

 

 

And thank you or reminding me about Pray. Yeah that interaction between him and Salami looks bad for both of them. Pretty sure there's at least one scum in there, possibly two if it was a weak distance attempt.

 

Anyone else seeing the irony?

 

Quoted for irony. Despo jabs at Darthe for buddying Tommy and then immediately follows by... wait for it... BUDDYING TOMMY. I think Despo doesn't like to share his bromances, lol.

 

Also...

 

 

Here is the VC after Pralaya votes Despo. What happens next?

 

Official Vote Count:
 
Darthe (3) - Despo, Kaylee, Peace
Despo (5) - Darthe. Turin, Wombat, Amega, Pral
TG (5) - Mish, Tommy, Leno, AJ, Hallia
Lenlo (1) - TG
 
Not Voting (2) -  Dap, BFG
 
With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

 

 

Deadline: http://www.timeandda...sg=End of Day 1

 

 

 

 

Funny that the first thing that happens is Darthe calls Pralaya's vote a bus vote. Which would mean he thinks Despo is mafia as well

 

Peace, without stating his reasoning, unvotes Darthe and votes TG making it TG with 6 votes, Despo with 5

 

AJ unvotes TG and votes Pral. In the post he actually appears to be making more of a case on Dap than Pral. His Pral case is basically that Pral voted Despo by posting his voting history and called what Despo was doing to be scummy(which I agree with. Mafia Despo is much freer in his willingness to jump around) more irony in that AJ chides Dap for letting Despo buddy up to him. wombat earlier noted this vote as an attempt to shift attention to Despo in a sneaky way. I am looking at it now as a chainsaw defense of Despo. The first member of the DDF(Despo Defense Force). Peace questions AJ swapping his vote due to timing as well. AJ only replies about not thinking TG mafia anymore, 

 

Tommy comes in and counsels Despo to find another target, also calls Pral out as using weak reasoning for his vote. (DDF member 2)

 

Darthe immediately calls AJ town for his post voting Pral. Follows him onto Pral as well (unvoting Despo in the process) votes now Despo-4, TG-5, Pral -2. Darthe joins the DDF after being so sure that Despo is mafia earlier. Why the change Darthe?

 

Tommy supports AJ for voting Pray and follows that up with supporting Darthe for doing the same. Starts to make CFD to Pral noises. 

 

Wombat comes in on Pral's side. Says he doesn't think Pral is maf, as he has Pral on his meta.

 

Despo jumps in with more Darthe is uberscummy talk. (sees that the Darthe train is gonna stall and starts to look for another target) Takes a shot at Wombat calling him Darthe's teammate. Then uses a self-meta defense (erroneously IMO) to defend against Pral's vote. Starts the breadcrumbing of his "vig claim" and that he is gonna shoot Darthe. Ironically takes a shot at Turin(me) for ignoring the entire game to tunnel him while he is tunneling Darthe. So desperate to get a Darthe lynch and frustrated into making the vig claim. Then he unvotes Darthe and follows his complete scum read onto PRAL. Despo-4, TG-5, Pral-3. Despo in that post also says that he thinks TG islikely town due to the people voting him. At that point the people voting TG were Mish, Tommy, Lenlo, Hallia and Peace. None of whom were on Despo's long list of prior votes. ??? It also makes Pral an acceptable place for votes to fall as TG starts to look better in most eyes and Despo expects to remove heat with his vig claim of a sort. 

 

AJ comes back to rehash the Pral case. Which still looks to me to be that he voted Despo. He questions Pral about who Pral thinks Drthe's mafia partner is when it is fairly clear to me anyway that Pral is referring to Despo(his other primary mafia read). AJ does note the irony of Despo following Darthe onto Pral, but only takes cool points from him as a result. The final irony in this trimuverate is that both Darthe and Despo, who were going at it tooth and nail are firmly convinced that each of the other must be bussing Pral(who we now know was town)

 

Kaylee must bow out due to injury

 

TG makes his Lenlo case(which I must say sounded pretty good) But then he starts to defend Despo from Pral as well. One point that I completely disagree with is that this game has a longer than average D1. Most games have more than 3 days for D1. Tommy and AJ come in to defend Despo and push Pral. AJ you asked Pral why he thought Despo was adding everyone that FoS'd or voted him to his mafia list. Why do you think he would do that. It is not true town behavior, especially for a player that self-admittedly plays a least a bit scummy all the time. Do you think that everyone should just ignore Despo doing anti-town things?

 

Tommy unvotes TG and votes Pral. Despo-4, TG-4, Pral-4. He also says that he should be convincing the rest of the town of Despo's mafianess by battling it out with him. This makes no sense to me. The case is either valid or not. This is odd posturing from Tommy. He then proclaims that any votes on TG or Despo are better put on Pral.

 

Despo shows up and puts out more self-meta defense that if he thinks there is any chance he is wrong on someone that he will vote the common scumread between him and the person he thought was scummy originally. He then also states that he is going to kill Darthe no matter how Pral flips. Next post is fishing at Pral about a possible role as he misinterpreted Pral saying that he would not really kill his mafia teammate. Funny that he says that soft claims are the debil when he hasn't exactly hard claimed being a vig at this point as far as I can tell. Pral has to tell him twice that Pral thinks he will not really shoot Darthe as Pral feel they are teammates and that Pral also doesn't think that Despo is a vig. Directly thereafter Tommy again attempt to counsel Despo about the wisdom of shooting Darthe for personal reasons. Despo is having none of it. More of the ignorant talk.(leaving that whole sidebar alone. It is just too funny)

 

There is some other talk about other people. 

 

Despo calls out Wombat as Darthe's teammate also. That is very funny in that Despo pointed out a link to his case and then said no not that post, effectively misquoting himself.

 

Wombat unvotes Despo... Despo-3, TG-4, Pral-4. Shortly after Lenlo posts his reads and Wombat votes Lenlo

 

Lenlo unvotes TG and votes Pral, saying that he would rather lynch Pral than TG and will give TG a chance to prove he is town. Despo-3, TG-3, Pral-5. (side note Lenlo states in his reads that Despo is doing scummy things but then comes back to explain them in another way that makes them sound less scummy. I called it DC and that Des is good at it.)

 

Dap rambles some then  votes TG to even up the trains(sort of) but states that a Pral flip will give good info on AJ. What does the town Pral flip mean Dap? (Irony alert: AJ said later that Pral will give more info than Len when there was talk of a CFD onto Len). Despo-3, TG-4, Pral-5

 

Some people post reads lists: one that stood out to me was AJs. He had everyone as either town lean or null with 3 exceptions. Amega that he had as Null to scum. Mish that he had as null until Dap's case on her and is now thinking her scum(this looks a little sheepish to me. odd) and  Pral who he does not say is mafia but says that he supported his lynch 100%. Dap and AJ buddy a bit shortly afterward. AJ doesn't mention this buddying session.

 

Wombat unvotes Lenlo and votes TG. Says that the Pral train stinks. Despo-3, TG-5, Pral-5

 

Dice replaces Kaylee. Welcome Dice.

 

Despo criticizes Lenlo's reads list. Then proceeds to pound on Pral some more. Failure to claim>holding town hostage>mafia, LOL. Ironically he pokes about Pray not having any null reads when earlier in the same post he bashes Lenlo and Hallia for having too many null reads. 

 

Pral claims VT. 

 

Despo bashes Pral for his POV. This looks like pre-emptive DC to me. Tommy kind of joins him and then talks about some other stuff. Going back to cheerlead the Pral lynch some more. 

 

Mish asks for a recap of the Pral case since she has been not feeling well. Wombat makes a joke about it. I was going to try to post that the case was he voted Despo and the DFF jumped into action. Tommy comes back on to push the "case" on Pral. Shortly thereafter Tommy rehashes the weak case on Pral and bullies Mish by calling her Pral's mafia teammate.

 

Wombat unvotes TG and votes Despo. Despo-4, TG-4, Pral-5

 

AJ says this: I agree with Tommy that at this point I just want a flip to work with. We have a big D1 with lots of posturing and interactions to look back on. Even lynching a possible townie at this point will get us closer to #gamesolve and #endgame

That said, lynch Pral. Apathy is never a good look on a bro.

 

This is where I question why he is now pushing Pral as an "info lynch". his response is that it is info for long game but shortly thereafter he states that regardless of how Pral flips that wombat looks bad and is his #1 candidate for D2. My history is that it is the anti-town that are happy to claim there is enough to go on and that it is now time to finish the day. Especially when it is a townie getting lynched.(this is most notably a 3rd party tactic and how I spied Cory in SW game, NVM that tho)

 

Hallia sheeps Des onto Pral(unvoting TG). Awful, Awful. Despo-4, TG-3, Pral-6. 

 

Darthe states all those on Des are wasting time. I assume that also means they are wasting their votes. Odd for Darthe to say that about his highest scum read for most of the day.

 

Dice joins in and admittedly blind votes Pral stating he would be gone at DL.  Despo-4, TG-3, Pral-7. At this point it is nearly certain that Pral will be lynched IMO

 

TG comes on and talks about some stuff then votes Pral, putting him at L-1.

 

Mish comes in and gives a free flow recap, Says she doesn't like either major train but then votes Len(also willing to vote AJ)

 

Despo buddies Tommy more switching his avi to one of the acher characters. Is  this the #alliance all over again? Bleurgh

 

There is a bit of an interaction with Tommy and Pral. PRal say that he thinks Tommy is town sheeping the mafia. Tommy claims that he can't be sheeping as he is the one yelling the loudest. This is a fallacy. Converts make the best zealots. And a good way to hide that you are sheeping is by taking over the argument. Tommy was not the first on Pral he was pushing TG for the longest time. This looks odd to me. Pral also states that Despo claimed with no real reason. despo's response was that he was one of the vote leaders with an impending deadline. He was tied for first I think at that time but DL was a fair ways away. Also it looked more like he claimed to threaten Darthe more than anything else. So his now saying that he had to claim doesn't sit well. 

 

Despo floats the Len CFD idea. Mish is receptive(i was as as I had Pral on town meta) AJ and Tommy immediately work to squash it by pointing out that Pral is a better info lynch. Ironic as in the same post AJ states that regardless of how Pral flips that wombat is #1 suspect for defending him from the trumped up case he made and that the Despo/Tommy machine pushed thru. AJ/Tommy/Despo buddy more.

 

Pral votes AJ. 

 

BFG hammers Pral with Dap fumbling right behind her. 

 

 

My take is that AJ, Tommy and Despo all look bad out of this. 

 

AJ for starting the train for a very squirrly reason. Then when it looked like it might derail falling back to the position that "even if Pral was town that he gives good info" this is a mafia/3rd party tactic to salvage the mislynch they are pushing. Denying it doesn't change the facts. Also, Yes I know you started the lynch. that is part of the problem. You wanted Pral gone and even when it started to look like you thought he might be town you were happy to lynch him anyway. 

 

Tommy cheerled this thing once he saw it had a chance to get all the way to the station. He nudged it early and then got out and not only jumped on the bandwagon but drove the sucker all the way home.

 

Despo was just awful all day.

 

Hallia for sheeping Despo and Darthe for his flopping on Des need mentioning too.  

 

 

 

Good night again.

 

 

[peacesells]

Man..this game is spammy.

 

 

Scum team is Mish, Dap, Tommy

 

Cleared is AJ

 

Getting less clear is Despo and Wombat

 

Getting more clear is Darthe

 

Hallia looking like scum

 

Lenlo, who the F knows?  The F stands for funny.

[Andrej]

Sort of sus of Tommy at this point, which makes me sad.

 

Still think Wombat looks bad for his activity around the Pral wagon.

 

Actually think Mish might be town at this point. Her smugness is bleh though. Would like her to give an in depth explanation of how she thinks Len, Hallia, Dap and me all fit together.

 

Turin I have several issues with your post, but I can't multi quote to show exactly what I said. In essence you are saying that I am trying to line up Wombat for D2. This is false, check my quotes. I never said he would be my number one and the conclusions I came to based on his participation around Pral are viable as scum tactics. Also, your facts are skewed. It is your opinion that scum/3rd party would push for info so that makes it different. Your personal opinion does not make it factual. Your bit on how you view Despo's vote changes I also disagree with. You are applying a cut and dry method of what you consider town and scum behavior without thinking from Despo's POV. What is inherently scummy about FOS/attacking those who attack you? At the very least his behavior should indicate he isn't on the scum team, but 3rd party is still viable with his killing ability.

[Darthe]

 

Official Vote Count:

 

Despo (3) - Turin, Amega, Wombat

TG (2) - peace, Dap

Lenlo (1) - Mish

Pral (9) - AJ, Darthe, des, Tommy, Leno, Hallia, dice, TG, BFG

Aj (1) - Pral,

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

 

That's a lynch. Scene incoming. Asking for it any faster may result in a modkill.

 

For post-game bragging rights: how many scum on this wagon?

 

More likely to be on or off given the amount of self-shoveling Pral did?

 

 

More likely to be off.  I am going to say it went half and half though.  IMO Des is the only outlier in the front four.  AJ isn't mafia unless Peace is which would shock me.

 

^ Annnd there goes my town read on Mish.

 

Lol you had a town read on Mish?

[Hallia]

Yeah, I had liked where she was goin

[Tommyrod]

I think Des, Darthe, AJ, BFG and TG are all >rand to be town.

 

There's a lot of people in that gray middle range.

 

Wolf candidates going forward:

Wombat, Dap, Mish, Amega.

 

Next day will be focused on narrowing down the list to the best lynch candidate, but AORN I would bust a cap in Wombat's skull. I don't see him flipping town here. Maybe some kind of indie based on how he doesn't seem to genuinely care who dies, but probably scum since he found an excuse to avoid a town wagon, but regardless I'm pretty sure he's never flipping town.

[Darthe]

TG?

[Tommyrod]

Did you not read along for the last third of D1? I thought TG started clearing himself by finally being aggressive. He showed far more WIM and willingness to compromise than Pral and kept bringing up people he found suspicions: e.g. Amega, Hallia, Len. Starts around here. http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/87715-advanced-house-md-mafia-day-1/page-25?do=findComment&comment=3168750

 

Len case here: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/87715-advanced-house-md-mafia-day-1/page-26?do=findComment&comment=3168876

 

More oomph than a lot of players in this game.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could not smh @ Turin any harder than I already am. LOL. Basically his entire wot, is all one giant conspiracy theory on me with the most confbias I have ever seen, all when I am in the end town. It really will truly be sad if it turns out once again that he is town. I can only hope that he is scum. Cause WOW.

 

Turin, you raise no actual points of evidence against me in the entire thing. It is all you trying to fit the entire thing together as fitting as you can to your warped perspective, making so many assumptions it goes well past the point of actual reason, and into the looney bin pile. I recommend that if you ARE town, you pull your head out of the sand and revisualize the game around you. If you're scum, well then, carry on sir.

 

---

 

As for Pray flipping town, meh. Thought we had a good chance of catching scum with his lynch. At least it was no loss of PR and we DID have a productive day 1, so I think there will be a wealth of information to pull from tomorrow.

[Andrej]

Anddddd Day break.

[keyholder21]

Amega has asked to be replaced.

TheRagnarok will be taking over for him.


Welcome Rags!

[keyholder21]

Anddddd Day break.

 

 

Ha, not quite.  Tell your fellow players to get a move on . 

[Andrej]

Lol I legit thought I called it there.

 

You heard the lady!

[TheRagnarok]

Sooooo who wants to recap D1 for me?  Give some leans, people I should specifically read through, things like that.

[Andrej]

Ftr Des is right that Turin's case is a seriously bad example of how his suspicion of one player is coloring how he views the rest of the game. Something I forgot to point out earlier: your point that I am beginning to push Pral as an info lynch is incorrect because you are removing if from the context and flow of the thread. He was the lead wagon (which built over several days with many commenting on) and others were beginning to express interest in speed lynching another player with under 10 hours to DL at that point. You present it in a way to make it sound like I was trying to rush Day's end, but you neglect to take into consideration that the Day was nearly over on its own. You have gone down some in my eyes.

 

Suspect list: Turin/Wombat/Tommy/Dap are the big fish. I would put them all generally on the same tier as late-game scum. Will need several flips to really analyze their motive and interaction patterns. Depending on how some flip will influence my view of the others. Will expound later on. Atm I would lean Tommy to be the biggest threat. Amega suddenly appearing on his wolf list (but at the end mind you) gives me the impression he is offering up a teammate that's starting to fall behind without really wanting to. Still love you Tommy Rags replacing in is sorta scary but awesome.

 

Hallia and Lenlo look bad for their votes yesterday. I will call them The Sheepers in this case.

 

As to those who I firmly believe are town: Darthe, Des, Peace and TG.

[Darthe]

So stoked to be in yet another champions game.   #champ

[Tommyrod]

When I'm mafia people clear me, when I'm town they tinfoil on me even after lynching scum (which we will on D2). It's a fun meta I have. Worse on 2+2 than here though, if I'm not dead by D2 I'm scum to everyone :P

[Tommyrod]

Ftr Des is right that Turin's case is a seriously bad example of how his suspicion of one player is coloring how he views the rest of the game. Something I forgot to point out earlier: your point that I am beginning to push Pral as an info lynch is incorrect because you are removing if from the context and flow of the thread. He was the lead wagon (which built over several days with many commenting on) and others were beginning to express interest in speed lynching another player with under 10 hours to DL at that point. You present it in a way to make it sound like I was trying to rush Day's end, but you neglect to take into consideration that the Day was nearly over on its own. You have gone down some in my eyes.

 

Suspect list: Turin/Wombat/Tommy/Dap are the big fish. I would put them all generally on the same tier as late-game scum. Will need several flips to really analyze their motive and interaction patterns. Depending on how some flip will influence my view of the others. Will expound later on. Atm I would lean Tommy to be the biggest threat. Amega suddenly appearing on his wolf list (but at the end mind you) gives me the impression he is offering up a teammate that's starting to fall behind without really wanting to. Still love you Tommy Rags replacing in is sorta scary but awesome.

 

Hallia and Lenlo look bad for their votes yesterday. I will call them The Sheepers in this case.

 

As to those who I firmly believe are town: Darthe, Des, Peace and TG.

I love you too despite your paranoia

 

And our townie list is pretty similar so let's roll with that