[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

Darthe · November 25, 2013

I know.

TheRagnarok · November 25, 2013

The reason why I voted him was that I didn´t like his vote on Cloud, that he spammed a lot and only commented on a few things (mostly Cloud and defending AJ). After that we have the way he changed his reasons for voting Cloud. He claimed a not so important role (that could easily be a fake claim) just before deadline. His death could have given us a lot of information since we have people that have defended him and accused him. There were people online that choose to not lynch today. Don´t like that.

Hhmmm...gotcha.

WWWwombat · November 25, 2013

Btw, I chose not to extend the deadline, because I was not impressed with the effort I had seen from most players to that point.

Also, I made this setup before I chose the theme so although theme is relevant in that I chose a theme I thought would fit the setup, I would not advise focusing too much on it. This is a mafia game. Play mafia.

Niniel · November 25, 2013

Darthe, why didn´t you vote? And why did you choose to role claim?

Cool. I like Dap too.

What is that now? AJ; Dap, Des, Krak for town, Len (less so since the claim) and potentially Leelou for mafia? Feels like a good list to me.

Reasons?

Darthe · November 25, 2013

A) Didn't want to take a shot in the dark

B) Because I wasn't interested in taking a speedlynch to the face

C) I sense, intuitively or logically, that those people match the alignments that I suspect them of having.

D) You're aggressive phrasing suggest that you're pressing from answers and yet already anticipate dissatisfaction with what they will be. I assume therefore that A through C probably didn't float your boat. Also, goading is good. Keep this up.

Verbal32 · November 25, 2013

@ Dap - Just to beat the dead horse a little more You bringing up the Underworld game gave me a trip down memory lane.

This post (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/83124-underworld-mafia-basic-game-over-town-wins/?p=2964154) by BG was made after he replaced in. He was also scum that game. Two scum, two similar "Hi. Will read later." posts. Need I say more?

@ Verb - I don't think I am necessarily wrong. You can't say for sure what a player would do with a given role if someone else false-claimed it. It would all depend on that player and if they felt that CCing would be beneficial or not. I agree that if I were the Cop or Doc I wouldn't likely CC on D1. Inversely, you also claimed a role that is more or less un-CC-able which is why that I said it would be a safer move for scum.

And that is exactly why it should ring true. Why make the obviously safer claim when I could still get lynched for it? Why not make the claim with a potential for greater reward (i.e. claim Doc and get cc'ed)? These are the questions you should be asking yourself.

Verbal should have been lynched.

Thanks, captain obvious!

Still confused about Kivam and Barm being on the forum mods list.

That was unrelated.

That was what I wanted to speculate on.

Because I still have contact with both of them and will use them to help vet/balance games if necessary.

Andrej · November 25, 2013

@ Dap - Just to beat the dead horse a little more You bringing up the Underworld game gave me a trip down memory lane.

This post (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/83124-underworld-mafia-basic-game-over-town-wins/?p=2964154) by BG was made after he replaced in. He was also scum that game. Two scum, two similar "Hi. Will read later." posts. Need I say more?

@ Verb - I don't think I am necessarily wrong. You can't say for sure what a player would do with a given role if someone else false-claimed it. It would all depend on that player and if they felt that CCing would be beneficial or not. I agree that if I were the Cop or Doc I wouldn't likely CC on D1. Inversely, you also claimed a role that is more or less un-CC-able which is why that I said it would be a safer move for scum.

And that is exactly why it should ring true. Why make the obviously safer claim when I could still get lynched for it? Why not make the claim with a potential for greater reward (i.e. claim Doc and get cc'ed)? These are the questions you should be asking yourself.

I can see the point you're making here. On the other hand, the logic you are using also works against what you said about Town PRs not wanting to CC on D1. Hence safer claim because you could've assumed that nobody would bite on the Doc/Cop fake-claim. See below in your own words.

Re: timing - honestly didn't expect to get lynched today, so I wasn't planning on claiming. I only did as I'm not sure how much info Wombat will include in coroner reports, so I wanted to make sure that detail was included.

Re: backup role claim - AJ is wrong on the cc part. What Cop in their right mind cc's that on D1? That would be awesome for scum to know the identity of the Cop/Doc on D1. So yeah, claiming backup was MORE risky.

Anywho, looking at the 2 claims I find Darthe's harder to believe. At least in the sense that he would be Town aligned as a RB. I haven't seen a Town RB before, and I can't think of a way having one for Town would balance the game unless the Mafia had a Role Cop or some sort of mechanism where only 1 was allowed to submit NKs at a time, or some other weird combo I haven't thought up yet. Redirector, etc. Otherwise a Town RB would only serve to block Town night actions. Mafia having a RB fits for obvious reasons.

Leelou · November 25, 2013

RBer can be any alignment.

TheRagnarok · November 25, 2013

Dunno how it works here but we frequently have a town RBer. I've roleblocked scum before, specifically killers, and used that to lynch them as fewer or no kills showed up.

michellem · November 26, 2013

I haven't seen a Town RB before, and I can't think of a way having one for Town would balance the game unless the Mafia had a Role Cop or some sort of mechanism where only 1 was allowed to submit NKs at a time, or some other weird combo I haven't thought up yet. Redirector, etc. Otherwise a Town RB would only serve to block Town night actions. Mafia having a RB fits for obvious reasons.

I had a town roleblocker in my Hunger Games. It's quite common. It can block the NK, a janitor, the mafia roleblocker and so on.

That said, I'm not sure I've seen a 1xroleblocker in an advanced game before. I'm choosing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

Darthe · November 26, 2013

It would be a stupid fake claim. Risks getting ccd by a full town RB if one existed, is less credible than claiming a full one and isn't thay great a town PR.

Andrej · November 26, 2013

I am willing to label Darthe and Verb as Town for now. There are other ways to check them anyway and I think eventually we will be able to pin them down now that they are outed if they were lying.

Quick glance at the voting from the past Day:

Leelou is interesting in that she voted me, Verb and Darthe all at different points.

Curious as to why Pral came in a voted Cloud over one of the other trains so close to DL. His check in vote of Leelou without explanation is also something I'd like to hear about.

Cloud's vote on me (the biggest train at the time) and then later jumping on the next biggest train with Verb looks fishy.

Niniel · November 26, 2013

Darthe, why didn´t you vote? And why did you choose to role claim?

Cool. I like Dap too.

What is that now? AJ; Dap, Des, Krak for town, Len (less so since the claim) and potentially Leelou for mafia? Feels like a good list to me.

Reasons?

A) Didn't want to take a shot in the dark

B) Because I wasn't interested in taking a speedlynch to the face

C) I sense, intuitively or logically, that those people match the alignments that I suspect them of having.

D) You're aggressive phrasing suggest that you're pressing from answers and yet already anticipate dissatisfaction with what they will be. I assume therefore that A through C probably didn't float your boat. Also, goading is good. Keep this up.

A. A shot in the dark? Like it´s on every day 1? There are of course a difference that we didn´t get a random mk. Still, you agreed with me after the lynch that he should have been lynched.

Verbal should have been lynched.

He should have. This last page is going to be telling late game. A lot of posturing here that I don't quite get the meaning of yet.

B. You felt that you were about to get speedlynched? I don´t see it but okay.

C. That is just another way to say that they look scummy. It´s still not a reason.

D. I don´t understand this.

Verbal should have been lynched.

Thanks, captain obvious!

Yes, it should have been obvious. Still there were people present that didn´t want to lynch you.

Verbal32 · November 26, 2013

@ Dap - Just to beat the dead horse a little more You bringing up the Underworld game gave me a trip down memory lane.

This post (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/83124-underworld-mafia-basic-game-over-town-wins/?p=2964154) by BG was made after he replaced in. He was also scum that game. Two scum, two similar "Hi. Will read later." posts. Need I say more?

@ Verb - I don't think I am necessarily wrong. You can't say for sure what a player would do with a given role if someone else false-claimed it. It would all depend on that player and if they felt that CCing would be beneficial or not. I agree that if I were the Cop or Doc I wouldn't likely CC on D1. Inversely, you also claimed a role that is more or less un-CC-able which is why that I said it would be a safer move for scum.

And that is exactly why it should ring true. Why make the obviously safer claim when I could still get lynched for it? Why not make the claim with a potential for greater reward (i.e. claim Doc and get cc'ed)? These are the questions you should be asking yourself.

I can see the point you're making here. On the other hand, the logic you are using also works against what you said about Town PRs not wanting to CC on D1. Hence safer claim because you could've assumed that nobody would bite on the Doc/Cop fake-claim. See below in your own words.

Re: timing - honestly didn't expect to get lynched today, so I wasn't planning on claiming. I only did as I'm not sure how much info Wombat will include in coroner reports, so I wanted to make sure that detail was included.

Re: backup role claim - AJ is wrong on the cc part. What Cop in their right mind cc's that on D1? That would be awesome for scum to know the identity of the Cop/Doc on D1. So yeah, claiming backup was MORE risky.

The opposite. Doc or Cop would be the safer claim. By my own logic, I'm less likely to get cc'ed......AND....if I am, it works to scum's advantage. So if I'm scum, that's the right claim. Best case it gets me off the hook that day, and worst case I get cc'ed and lynched, but we out a town PR at the same time.

I am willing to label Darthe and Verb as Town for now. There are other ways to check them anyway and I think eventually we will be able to pin them down now that they are outed if they were lying.

Quick glance at the voting from the past Day:

Leelou is interesting in that she voted me, Verb and Darthe all at different points.

Curious as to why Pral came in a voted Cloud over one of the other trains so close to DL. His check in vote of Leelou without explanation is also something I'd like to hear about.

Cloud's vote on me (the biggest train at the time) and then later jumping on the next biggest train with Verb looks fishy.

That would be because he's scum and willing to lynch anybody. Part of why I think you're town and he's scum.

Verbal should have been lynched.

Thanks, captain obvious!

Yes, it should have been obvious. Still there were people present that didn´t want to lynch you.

It is part of my charm.

TheRagnarok · November 26, 2013

I dunno if Cloud did a single townie thing last day phase.

Krakalakachkn · November 26, 2013

@ Pral - Why aren't you voting?

Also, Mish trying to defend Cloud like anything (or going after verb, same thing)

Starts here

Now. AJ, way too aggresive compared to how I'm used to see him D1. Not been able to put my finger on ho w it makes me think about his alignement; I gotta go back and look at his first initial posts in context. I've read page 1-6 a post here and a post there when I had time, and then from page 6 and out now in one sitting, so I gotta get it all looked at in one go. But he is being very aggresive and loud compared to what I'm used to, so watching him.

I've got slight town leans on Des, Cloud and Tina so far. Not sure how I feel about Verb, he's being more vocal than I expect, and mostly posting spam and fluff when not trying to go for Cloud. Leelou is also a bit more in spam-mode than I expect from her. The rest is mostly null reads, nothing that's stuck out. We'll see if that changes after a re-read later tonight.

And, again

Now. AJ, way too aggresive compared to how I'm used to see him D1. Not been able to put my finger on ho w it makes me think about his alignement; I gotta go back and look at his first initial posts in context. I've read page 1-6 a post here and a post there when I had time, and then from page 6 and out now in one sitting, so I gotta get it all looked at in one go. But he is being very aggresive and loud compared to what I'm used to, so watching him.

I've got slight town leans on Des, Cloud and Tina so far. Not sure how I feel about Verb, he's being more vocal than I expect, and mostly posting spam and fluff when not trying to go for Cloud. Leelou is also a bit more in spam-mode than I expect from her. The rest is mostly null reads, nothing that's stuck out. We'll see if that changes after a re-read later tonight.

And, then she votes verb. I myself found it odd that Cloud was serious too early in the game but still he voted AJ for being serious. That is hypocritical and opportunistic.

I'm not a D1 player

Wich I'm working at changing, I hope people have noticed that lately! But I'm struggling with separating this thread from the Walking Dead (and I see I'm not the only one *pokes Des*) and so I've given the other one more of my attention to get the proper feel for one at a time.

I agree with you about Verb though. He keeps switching his reason for why he thinks Cloud is scummy (first it was "you are too serious for this early in the game" and then it was "for chastising AJ for being so serious early"). And he doesn't say much about anyone else.

I will also##Vote Verb

There were talks about buddying between Darthe and AJ, but I find this buddying more interesting and suspicous.
##vote Cloud

foS for not consolidating so close to deadline..

No way scum NKs me now, lol. I'm a known quantity to them if they ever find the Cop. Hell, they might still get me lynched tomorrow.

Really going there, eh?

I like how you nicely explain why you won't be nk'ed and throw in the bit about lynching too.

I probably hammered him. I unvoted because he claimed a PR, but after reading about the Deputy in the Wiki it seems like a very easy fake claim.

That's your inexperience talking. If I'm claiming something to save my skin NOW, it is a role that is crucial to town NOW. Not something that might never come to light.

Your role isn't crucial to town right now because it would only come into effect if the Cop dies. This is also the reason why it is such a good fake claim.

No, you missed the point. The point is to live NOW. Claiming a backup role as scum does not do that. People are more likely to unvote if you claim a PR that is in effect then and now. Not something that could be important.

It's all about timing - claiming to save my skin if scum would mean I need to claim Cop or Doc....not Deputy.

Deputy looks like a perfect claim to me - it allows you to coast to the end without the danger of being cc'd at any given point in the future, and it's important enough to likely cause hesitation, especially coming 15 minutes before the deadline. It's a perfect "there's a good chance I'll be lynched, but just in case I make it, I'll make this claim will be gold ."

Verbal32 · November 26, 2013

*shakes head sadly*

Silly Krak. You don't get it. Mafia needs to fake claim to live NOW. It is useless if they will be lynched anyway, as the coroner report will clarify it. Claiming a currently powered role is the best way to ensure they live.....not what I did. I was pretty sure I was dead, and I didn't know if Wombat would include a currently unpowered role in the coroner report. I decided not to take the chance.

Why do I need to keep repeating this to people? How hard is it to understand?

Verbal32 · November 26, 2013

No way scum NKs me now, lol. I'm a known quantity to them if they ever find the Cop. Hell, they might still get me lynched tomorrow.

Really going there, eh?

I like how you nicely explain why you won't be nk'ed and throw in the bit about lynching too.

Protip: WIFOMing the mafia at night, even only a little, can't hurt.

Leelou · November 26, 2013

Verbal should have been lynched.

Thanks, captain obvious!

Yes, it should have been obvious. Still there were people present that didn´t want to lynch you.

It is part of my charm.

Charm?

hazelkrs1 · November 26, 2013

All this after the fact defending of claims is just scummy as all get out. That's @ both Darthe AND Verb. Defending claims using the "Mafia would DEF fake claim THIS instead" angle is just retarded. Mafia will claim whatever role they think will help them survive as long as possible, or to sow wifom. Deputy and 1 time RB'er qualify for both of these.

Town players would be less concerned with defending their claim than trying to actually find scum. If I was town and peeps didn't buy my claim, at some point I'd just throw my arms up.

Verbal32 · November 26, 2013

All this after the fact defending of claims is just scummy as all get out. That's @ both Darthe AND Verb. Defending claims using the "Mafia would DEF fake claim THIS instead" angle is just retarded. Mafia will claim whatever role they think will help them survive as long as possible, or to sow wifom. Deputy and 1 time RB'er qualify for both of these.

Town players would be less concerned with defending their claim than trying to actually find scum. If I was town and peeps didn't buy my claim, at some point I'd just throw my arms up.

Dude, I don't give two buckets of monkey piss what you think is retarded.

I was pressured on how I played it, and I responded. And you make my point for me anyway - mafia will claim whatever has the best chance to help them survive. That was the exact point of my explanation.

Verbal32 · November 26, 2013

All this after the fact defending of claims is just scummy as all get out. That's @ both Darthe AND Verb. Defending claims using the "Mafia would DEF fake claim THIS instead" angle is just retarded. Mafia will claim whatever role they think will help them survive as long as possible, or to sow wifom. Deputy and 1 time RB'er qualify for both of these.

Town players would be less concerned with defending their claim than trying to actually find scum. If I was town and peeps didn't buy my claim, at some point I'd just throw my arms up.

And FoS for trying to act like the moderator/judgement on this. No town cred for you.

Verbal32 · November 26, 2013

Charm?

-_-

Leelou · November 26, 2013

Charm?

-_-

*blows you a kiss*

I'm bored today.

Out of the two claims yesterday, I'd lean that Darthe's is more scummy.

csarmi · November 26, 2013

So why didn't you vote Verbal afterall?

[Advanced] Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Mafia (Day 6 - Town Wins)

Recommended Posts

Archived

Stay Connected

Forum Topics

News items

About Dragonmount

Twitter

Facebook