A Song of Fire & Ice Book Discussion Thread (Up To Dance With Dragons)

[Werthead]

Right on the money, Kadere. One POV whose identity has not been revealed, and an Epilogue who is the same.

 

It may be worth remembering the fate of every prologue and epilogue character in the series when thinking who the epilogue POV might be :)

[SingleMort]

Damn that's like twice as many POVs as the other books.

Not looking for to reading Melisandre's, she's my least favoruite female character. Saying that I don't like Cersei much either but her POVs were really funny in book 4 because she was so paranoid.

[OneOfTheBand]

OK I've read all the books now including a AFfC. I've enjoyed the books but I find I don't engage with them as much as WoT because I'm afraid GRRM will kill my favorite characters just when I like them. Also so that books don't have the grandeur of WoT. So far it's just another Game of Thrones between the lords of the Lands. The common men get killed for no good reasons. even the Others don't seem so sinister. Danys will just appear and blast them all with her dragons eventually.

 

That said I really like Jon Snow and Bran. I hope to see more of them in next book. But I'll keep them at a distance. GRRM will probably kill them anyway.

[SingleMort]

OK I've read all the books now including a AFfC. I've enjoyed the books but I find I don't engage with them as much as WoT because I'm afraid GRRM will kill my favorite characters just when I like them. Also so that books don't have the grandeur of WoT. So far it's just another Game of Thrones between the lords of the Lands. The common men get killed for no good reasons. even the Others don't seem so sinister. Danys will just appear and blast them all with her dragons eventually.

 

That said I really like Jon Snow and Bran. I hope to see more of them in next book. But I'll keep them at a distance. GRRM will probably kill them anyway.

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that I'm pretty sure Jon, Dany and Bran will make to the end of the series. Whether or not they die at the end I don't know. But I don't mind characters getting killed off so long as they've had some good times or epic moments before that. What I hate is when authors set up characters that spend 1000s of pages going from one back-breaking tragedy to the next and then die. It makes look like those characters would have been better off if they'd just slashed their wrists as soon as they enter the story.

[Reeve]

I dont know if I love or hate this series. I am now halfway thru book 3.

Robb just got killed. So did Catelyn. And the following chapter heavily implies that Arya is dead.

This is crap.

[Agitel]

The deaths that have happened sort of had to happen. Westeros needed to fall apart and characters needed to get scattered as they did for what's to come. I highly doubt GRRM's going to kill of Jon, Bran or Dany unless we're at the climax of the series and they've done what they needed to do. The point's kind of been that the war tearing apart the Seven Kingdoms is secondary to the real threats, and Jon, Bran and Dany all have central roles in what I believe will be the true story of the series.

 

I dont know if I love or hate this series. I am now halfway thru book 3.

Robb just got killed. So did Catelyn. And the following chapter heavily implies that Arya is dead.

This is crap.

 

I was so frustrated at that point. Keep reading.

[Gentled Ben]

Please use spoiler tags. With the popularity of the HBO series, there are surely lots of people reading this thread who have just now been introduced to this series and do not wish to have major developments ruined for them.

[Waffleboy]

I never made it through AFFC, I guess I'll have to now that the next one is finally coming out. Of course, I've forgotten so much at this point...

[Lynander]

I'm just gonna play it safe with this. don't want to ruin it for anybody

 

 

Has it been confirmed that the Hound is dead...being that it's offscreen and all?

 

Who is Ser Barristan? Is he the old guy Joffrey replaced with the Hound and is now with Danny?

 

Is Arya's blindness the kind that lasts forever? or the kind that needs the right antidote?

 

I think it'd be kinda cool to get more Frey POVs

 

[Kadere]

 

Has it been confirmed that the Hound is dead...being that it's offscreen and all?

 

It has not been confirmed if he's alive or dead. It has been theorized that he's been working at the Quiet Isle and was actually seen as a gravedigger there by Brienne in AFfC, but it has not been confirmed one way or the other.

 

Who is Ser Barristan? Is he the old guy Joffrey replaced with the Hound and is now with Danny?

 

Yes, he was the leader of the Kingsguard who was forcibly retired by Joffrey and ran to work with Danny until he was found out at the end of ASoS.

 

Is Arya's blindness the kind that lasts forever? or the kind that needs the right antidote?

 

It has not been confirmed but it is doubtful that her blindness is permanent. Most likely it's just the next stage in her training as a Faceless and she'll regain her sight only to lose another sense later on.

 

I think it'd be kinda cool to get more Frey POVs

 

I doubt the last two PoVs will be Frey's, but they could be. We'll see.

 

 

 

[Red2111]

to prevent the "OMGz i was spoiled by all da book disscussion" type complaints; i'm gonna change this title to read "Book Discussion" that way any who check this thread and haven't read the book and only watch the show can't complain and have been warned.

 

this way, those of us discussing the book (as this discussion will pick up heavily once DwD's is released) don't have to post in nothing but spoiler codes.

 

 

 

for thsoe of you who want to discuss souly about the HBO show, there is a thread made for that over in the TV forum in the Entertainment board. i don't mind us talking baotu the show here as well, but seeing as this si a book discussion thread mainly, the fact that there will be spoilers posted here is obvious *grins*

[Gentled Ben]

That's an even better solution!

[Basel Gill]

to prevent the "OMGz i was spoiled by all da book disscussion" type complaints; i'm gonna change this title to read "Book Discussion" that way any who check this thread and haven't read the book and only watch the show can't complain and have been warned.

 

this way, those of us discussing the book (as this discussion will pick up heavily once DwD's is released) don't have to post in nothing but spoiler codes.

 

 

 

for thsoe of you who want to discuss souly about the HBO show, there is a thread made for that over in the TV forum in the Entertainment board. i don't mind us talking baotu the show here as well, but seeing as this si a book discussion thread mainly, the fact that there will be spoilers posted here is obvious *grins*

 

Fine, but some sort of spoiler tag within the post would still be needed. There are those of us who would like to discuss the books who still haven't read the whole series, and want to do so without spoiling what they haven't read.

[Red2111]

see, if we were discussing say DwD, i'd be on par with what your saying, as DwD's would have only been just released. but all these books have been released for upwards of 6 years or more. my advice to anyone in this boat is to not read the thread. if you have a question/comment, post what book your on in the post you ask the question/comment and people here are nice enough not to spoil it for you while giving you an answer or commenting back, then back out of the thread until you have another question/comment.

 

the fact is, while your new to a great series, the series itself isn't new; because of the amount of years its been since a new book has been released it shouldn't, imo, be required for people to talk about the previous books and use spoiler codes. afterall, we don't use spoiler codes while talking about previously released WoT books on this board in case someone is new to the series, why should ASoF&I be treated differently in this aspect?

 

the thread title and subtitle is suffiecent warning to those who haven't read the series or the entire series to know that there are spoilers abound in this thread; and i've yet to see a malicous enough person on this site that makes a point of directly spoiling a book for someone on this board while knowing said person is new to the series.

 

 

edit - on a side note, was talking to my mom last night about the HBO show. i talked her into watching it (which she absolutley LOVES lmao) and have sent her my copy of GoT's for her to read. my goal is to get her hooked on ASoF&I then convert her to WoT

 

anyways, i had to giggle. last night she made the comment of "i can't wait till the Dragon Eggs hatch". so i played dumb and was like "what makes you sure their gonna hatch?" i wouldn't tell her yay or nay and when she cited Danny's infatuation with the Eggs, i pointed to Danny's blood line and their involvement with Dragons. she's not convinced, but i'm proud of her for guessing that without having read the books

[Werthead]

First review of ADWD.

 

Generally very positive (and slightly spoilery) but Pub Weekly advises some caution. Whilst the book has many more plot-important events than AFFC due to the presence of Jon, Tyrion and Dany it still has the same 'feel' as AFFC (I presume that means writing style). The review also indicates that the book has a huge climax (the Knot?) but that there's a lot of scene-setting for Book 6 (which of course is years away still) as well.

 

Not entirely sure how to take that. The review is generally good, and it sounds like there's lots more movement and important events than in AFFC, but there is also that note of caution. Hmm.

[Red2111]

thanks for posting the review Wert!!!

 

i can certiantly see the caution you talk about; it seems to me that what Martin has been saying about this book "that it's a continuation of AFFC" is 100% accurate. i'm guessing this book is going to be used to catch the other set of characters up to the timeline the 1st set are in from AFFC, which is fine. seems like these last two books will equate to the "Hunt for Faile" phase of WoT mostly boring, with key events happening sparsely and the hardest part to force yourself to get through on the re-read.

 

 

some points that have gotten my mouth literaly watering though ...

 

Martin keeps it fresh by focusing on popular characters Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and Jon Snow

 

:happy: :happy: outstanding!!!!

 

 

two strong new candidates for those scaly saddles emerge as a powerful enemy threatens Daenerys's captured city of Meereen

 

i'm guessing these are the wo new POV's Martin is introducing? or do you guys think it will be old characters comming back??

 

 

Tyrion is kidnapped by slavers

 

:ohmy: now that sounds like a heck of a plot point. maybe this is how he will travel across the narrow sea? or is maybe prevented from traveling across said sea. and if he is caputered in Westeros, their bound to have heard that hes wanted by the Throne for murder ... i wonder how that will play in and if Jamie will rescue him. also, with Tywin dead, how will this effect Tyrions age old Bargining chip for getting out of trouble which is "my dads rich and will pay you so long as you keep me safe"

 

do you guys think that maybe the people who capture him could be the same who followed the Mountain before he died?? or maybe the Goats followers before he died??

 

 

treachery undermines Jon's command of the undead-battling Night's Watch

 

this has to be with Stannis, unless you guys can think of a Nights Watchman still alive that wants Jon dead or not in charge?

 

 

More characters are revived than killed off

 

hmmm i think for sure the Onion Knight qualifys under this statement. the other two i can think of, Ayra's Dancing Instructor Syrio making a return and an answer to Bernie's fate and the word she yelled which saved her life those are the only other characters i can think of whoses deaths were left open ended. unless ... you don't think Reaghar will make an apperance as well as the Hound ..... and if Reaghar does com back, that would certaintly answer who is a sure fit as one of Danny's dragon riders.

 

 

Martin drops little hints around long-debated questions such as Jon's parentage

 

this one has me salivating the most. Bubba disagrees withthe long standing theory of Jon being the child of L&R, i suspet this will be the most discussed item once the book comes out!!!

 

 

 

all in all, i'm excited for the books release, thoroughly anticipating it and cannot wait to dig my teeth into these pages and start reading!!! Wer, i look forward to reading your review of this book for sure!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Werthead]

this has to be with Stannis, unless you guys can think of a Nights Watchman still alive that wants Jon dead or not in charge?

 

Ser Alliser Thorne, the bane of Jon's life since the start of GAME OF THRONES, is still around, as is Janos Slynt, who caused immense problems for Jon in STORM OF SWORDS (not to mention betrayed Eddard in GAME OF THRONES). Plus it could be one of the wildlings who have joined Stannis (they still hate Jon for betraying Mance Rayder in SWORDS), and indeed Stannis and/or Melisandre themselves. There's a lot of candidates :)

[Red2111]

see i had thought those two Night's Watchmen had been killed during the raids on the Wall *shakes head* shows that i truely need a re-read of this series but alas, i've let my mom borrow GoT's hoping to slyly get her hooked ont he book series and off the TV series in an attempt to introduce her to WoT

[shinerfan]

two strong new candidates for those scaly saddles emerge as a powerful enemy threatens Daenerys's captured city of Meereen

 

 

 

 

The "Young Grif" who's talked about in the chapters transposed from Martin's readings seems certain to be either the son or adoptive son of Jon Connington. Lots of people seem married to the idea of Connington pulling off the Aegon baby swap but I think its more likely that Connington found a silver haired orphan somewhere in the Free Cities and raised him to think he was Aegon, intending to use him as a weapon for his own revenge. He's gonna turn out to be the "mummer's dragon" that Dany saw in the House of the Undying. (But the dragon's will know him for an imposter.)

 

The other new candidate is going to be whatever descendant of the Great Bastards is currently leading the Golden Company, (and apparently bringing the sword Blackfyre to Dany).

 

Just idle speculation.

[Elend]

I really enjoyed A Feast for Crows so, if Dance is more of that, I'm pretty much cool with it.

 

Not to mention Bran is one of my favorites and getting back to him will be great. Arya too.

[Darth Krewl]

First review of ADWD.

 

Generally very positive (and slightly spoilery) but Pub Weekly advises some caution. Whilst the book has many more plot-important events than AFFC due to the presence of Jon, Tyrion and Dany it still has the same 'feel' as AFFC (I presume that means writing style). The review also indicates that the book has a huge climax (the Knot?) but that there's a lot of scene-setting for Book 6 (which of course is years away still) as well.

 

Not entirely sure how to take that. The review is generally good, and it sounds like there's lots more movement and important events than in AFFC, but there is also that note of caution. Hmm.

 

Hey, thanks for this review, Wert.

 

Personally, my real problem with AFFC was that it didn't feature any of my fave characters, except for Arya and a cameo appearance by Lord Commander Snow. But I was okay with the pace and the narrative, as I felt it was only natural that things would slow down considerably after SOS.

 

Taking into consideration that the events in ADwD are taking place simultaneous to what we read in AFFC, then it's also only natural that ADwD's pace will be similar to that of its predecessor, so no worries about that here.

 

Good, good stuff. So again, thanks for this.

[Darth Krewl]

Martin keeps it fresh by focusing on popular characters Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and Jon Snow

 

:happy: :happy: outstanding!!!!

 

Agreed. Great to see these 3 back. My fave characters (along with Arya and her late father) in the series.

 

two strong new candidates for those scaly saddles emerge as a powerful enemy threatens Daenerys's captured city of Meereen.

 

i'm guessing these are the wo new POV's Martin is introducing? or do you guys think it will be old characters comming back??

 

IIRC, the Crow's Eye had just heard about dragons being seen across the Narrow Sea and planning a trip to seize them, along with Aeron Damphair. If that's accurate, then it could be them who come to wage war on Dany and threaten the city.

 

Then again...it could be someone new, yes.

 

Tyrion is kidnapped by slavers

 

:ohmy: now that sounds like a heck of a plot point. maybe this is how he will travel across the narrow sea? or is maybe prevented from traveling across said sea. and if he is caputered in Westeros, their bound to have heard that hes wanted by the Throne for murder ... i wonder how that will play in and if Jamie will rescue him. also, with Tywin dead, how will this effect Tyrions age old Bargining chip for getting out of trouble which is "my dads rich and will pay you so long as you keep me safe"

 

do you guys think that maybe the people who capture him could be the same who followed the Mountain before he died?? or maybe the Goats followers before he died??

 

Slavery is a very serious offense in Westeros (see Jorah Mormont). Vargo's Company and The Mountain's men were monsters, true, but they didn't take slaves (probably because it'd mean their heads) and last I remember, the King's laws in this regard hadn't changed after Tommen was crowned.

 

So, the thinking here's that Tyrion has already found his way to the Free Cities and is taken there, perhaps betrayed by whomever he hired to smuggle him out of Westeros. The fact that he wasted his own father has nothing to do with his own money, I would think, since I believe he must have had some gold left for himself, at least.

 

And finally, I don't see Jaime rescuing him. Guy's got his hands full, what with his sister in deep trouble and all (hope SHE gets beheaded on the steps of Baelor's Sept as well...hehehe).

 

treachery undermines Jon's command of the undead-battling Night's Watch.

 

this has to be with Stannis, unless you guys can think of a Nights Watchman still alive that wants Jon dead or not in charge?

 

Well, this one has been answered already, but I concur. Jon's got plenty of enemies (Thorne, Slynt, Rayder's men, etc.)

 

If anyone connected to Stannis could be a danger to Jon, that would have to be Melisandre, who has tried to and succeeded in getting rid of anyone whom she saw as a threat to her god and power (Stannis' old maester, Davos Seaworth, etc.) but I don't see the men of the Night's Watch converting to R'hlorr and pledging their allegiance to her so easily/quickly.

 

More characters are revived than killed off.

 

hmmm i think for sure the Onion Knight qualifys under this statement. the other two i can think of, Ayra's Dancing Instructor Syrio making a return and an answer to Bernie's fate and the word she yelled which saved her life those are the only other characters i can think of whoses deaths were left open ended. unless ... you don't think Reaghar will make an apperance as well as the Hound ..... and if Reaghar does com back, that would certaintly answer who is a sure fit as one of Danny's dragon riders.

 

Do you mean Brienne? If so, I believe GRRM himself has confirmed she's not in this book on his blog. Then again, I could be mistaken.

 

IMO, this could be characters revived through the power of the red priests of Qohor (a la Beric Dondarrion, Cat Stark). Davos could be one of them, of course (if he really died). I also remember Cersei thinking that Loras and Bronn were dead, but I don't remember reading any confirmation in AFFC. So, those 2 could also be good candidates, IMO.

 

As for Syrio, well, rumor has it that he's Jaqen H'Gar but that hasn't been confirmed. That said, the guy's death was never confirmed at any point in the series that I know of, either. So it could be him, reuniting with Arya in Braavos...which would be pretty cool, of course.

 

Martin drops little hints around long-debated questions such as Jon's parentage.

 

this one has me salivating the most. Bubba disagrees withthe long standing theory of Jon being the child of L&R, i suspet this will be the most discussed item once the book comes out!!!

 

Hmm...not sure about the L&R theory. I was till recently, when I saw the TV show and it hit me: the only 2 people - that we know of - who could've known that were Ned and L themselves and they're both gone.

 

Don't think Stannis would know it...but with GRRM you never know...either way, I think won't surpass Syrio being JHG if that turns out to be true, since that IS the most discussed item in different ASoIaF sites, as we speak.

[shinerfan]

If you look back on the Tower of Joy sequence, almost half of Aerys' Kingsguard sat out the war that destroyed the Targ dynasty. No one ever wondered why? What's written in the White Book about those three? Ser Barristan has to at least suspect that Lyanna was pregnant.

 

Dany's vision of a blue rose growing from a chink in a wall of ice while in the House of the Undying pretty much confirms that Jon is Lyanna's son, with Rhaegar certainly the most reasonable guess as the father.

[Elend]

Actually, Howland Reed and perhaps his children could very well know about L+R=J. He was the only other survivor of the Tower of Joy and one of Ned's closest companions.

 

Also, keep in mind Reed's kids told Bran the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree. The story is a part of the entire L+R=J theory.

[Darth Krewl]

Great observations that I certainly overlooked (or interpreted differently), both.

 

Not looking to disagree but, since Ned was a man who praised honor above all, I can certainly see him going through great lengths just to make absolutely positive that Lyanna's memory (and honor) were preserved.

 

This includes promising to take care of her son as if he were his own. Even at the expense of his own honor, pride and marriage, of course. Not saying Jon couldn't be her son, just that I don't see many people knowing about it, especially around him, who could reveal the truth to Lord Commander Snow.

 

That said, I believe one thing we all can agree on is that Jon's origins play a key role in the whole thing and that GRRM has a great fate in store for Ned's alleged bastard...then again, the author could have him drop from the Wall and killed on a whim. With this series, you never know...