November 7th, 1606: Day 4 (CONCLUDED)

[Verbal32]

Yatesy, where'd you go??  Come back and play!

[Nolder]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

 

Peace (1/11): Serra

 

Cloud (11/11): Yates, Dap, Razen, Tiink, Pralaya, Peace, Des, Tina, Verb, Lenlo, BG

 

Razen (1/11): Cloud

 

Not Voting (7/20): Chuckles, Mish, Hally, Nol, Crush, Krak, Ree

 

 

 

Scene might take a bit.  I got stuffs to write for T1 too.

Ok I started to do my reread and then realized I didn't need to work nearly has hard as I thought I did.

Cloud being a vengeful killer there is a high chance at least one of his teammates was on his train.

Obviously eliminate players we know are town. I'll eliminate Razen as well, benefit of the doubt and all that for simplicity's sake.

 

That leaves Yates, Player, Pralaya, Peace, Tina, Verbal, Lenlo, and BG

Next I'm going to see who out of those people are voting Razen since we're giving Razen the benefit of the doubt and that gives me...

 

Pralaya, Player, and Peace, and "Roschache"?

Note to mods, please don't use nicknames in votecounts in the future.

If anyone wants to tell me who Roschache is I'll go back and reexamine this case with that in mind.

 

Ok so of those three and mystery man I'm gonna go back and look at their votes on Cloud and see which one seems most like a partner setting his buddy up to blow a townie.

 

 

 

 

Quoted because Peace pulls out the early votes from both Leelou and Ishy on Cloud and casts them as early and bogus distancing. What I find interesting is now, Leelou and Ishy are both dead.  I don't know if that's coincidental or not, but I do find it interesting that he singled them out and that they're now both dead.

It would have to be coincidental that BOTH died - unless you think the scum can talk to the 2nd anti-Town party.

 

 

I would agree that it has to be coincidental that they both died.  What I'm getting at is the fact that Peace picked them out specifically in his post because they voted Cloud with no reason at the time and cast it as a distancing maneuver.  Suddenly, they're dead.  I meant it more along the lines of is it coincidental that Peace mentioned them both in his post, calling them out for unexplained votes on Cloud and now they're dead?  Or is that the exact reason that they ended up dead?

 

 

 

To me it looks like a frame up of me.  If Cloud is scum and people believed my opinion of early distancing then his team may hope that Leelou flipping town would show my case invalid and therefore make him look less suspicious.  If he was worried that he would be lynched before Leelou he would want her dead.

 

VOTE CLOUD

 

 

 

Ishy and Leelou both play on JN as well though

 

But I like the idea of a cloud train

vote cloud

 

 

I have a different take on this case.

 

It could be that Leelou was hunted in the night because she was one of the first to be on Cloud. However, she was not the most vocal. One of the earliest quote was

 

 

 

 

Vote Yates

 

For self voting. Ugh.

  

Vote Csarmi

 

Let's just run him up and see what comes out of it.

Vote Csarmi

 

He must be scum in at least one of them or he wouldn't use the same strategy three times, heh.

Leelou I was wrong

This is where cloud is mafia. Csarmi and cloud are both mafia in this thread IMO

Bag 'em and tag 'em

 

(For kinda evidence. Look at the clod votes. This is the only thread he attempts to vote elsewhere and he is trying to be as nonchalant as possible in this thread)

 

vote salami

 

Also isnt it amazing that cloud went from thread to thread at the same time, making sure to read them all equally rather than concentrating on a specific thread at a time. Trying to have a nice even meta

Wait...

Didnt he accuse Csarmi of that and dub him mafia over it? I think he did lol

 

 

After that Dap has been most vocal against Cloud even while the Csarmi bandwagon was going on. 

For example,

 

 

This is game 2 right?

Cloud has been pretty scummy in this thread. He is one of my top pics

 

I even quoted him and explaind in my first post. How do you not see clouds scummy?

 

If Cloud was mafia, wouldn't the first person to target be Dap? 

And, guess who was one of the first on the Cloud train on Day 2?

 

 

 

Ishy and Leelou both play on JN as well though

 

But I like the idea of a cloud train

vote cloud

 

 

 

 

Me?

 

I've been saying for ages that I thought cloud was mafia on this thread

(This is T2 right?)

 

I would still give a benefit of doubt to Dap since both him and Leelou were on to Cloud at the beginning and they chose Leelou over Dap to kill.

 

Which brings to two possibilities,

 

1. Cloud is mafia: Dap was right all along

2. Cloud is not mafia: In this case, the first target on Day 3 would be Dap

 

I would, for now, go with my intuition that I had presented long back

 

 

 

I think dap and Leelou have a valid point. Even a newbie like me can see that Yates self-vote was a joke and was just the first day fun. Converting that to a serious post and voting based on it does look scummy to me.

 

 

vote Cloud

 

Of these three none seem squeeky clean to me. Pralaya seems to be setting up lynches but the way Cloud responds to him makes me think he's probably not the guy. Peace says "well let's just lynch Cloud anyway and see what happens" which feels like nudging based on nothing. But Peace was making a case that the people who appeared to be distancing from Cloud (ie voting him) were turning up dead and that's what makes Cloud scum. Considering Cloud's role it's obvious he'd want people to vote him eventually and wouldn't kill suspicious people. I think anyway. If Peace was his teammate I don't think he'd be perusing this line of thought regardless but trying to cast more suspicion on people based on how Cloud flips. So that leaves me with Player and I'm gonna say as of this moment he's my top pick. I'm not saying he's scum at all so don't get that twisted, it took me a lot of jumps and leaps of assumptions and what if's to get where I am. I am just saying he's Person of Interest #1 for me right now and I think that's who I'm going to be keeping a special eye on whenever I get around to doing a full reread. Before that though I'd like to see some reactions to my thoughts and I want to figure out who mystery man is since he might be an even better suspect than Player.

[michellem]

It's Pralaya (Rorsarch is his avatar)

[michellem]

I'd be willing to move my vote to Yates too. I really don't feel like he's coming well out of the exchange with Verbal here. And then there's the whole incident of him D2 stating that the extra kill had to come from a DMer because of the dead ones; so Serra and Mr. Ree (and himself, although he doesnt name himself) is unlikely to be the SK. And then we had two deaths N2 also. I find it more likely he is the SK than mafia though, I'm more convinced Hallia is mafia.

[Nolder]

Oh ok so I don't need to go back and reevaluate then. Cool.

[Verbal32]

I'm curious to see how he responds to my top 5 points on him.

 

I even overlooked the "gut" portions of my case. I built it to be shoddy - he'd either blow it up (he said he would), or he'd simply bolster it (what he ended up doing IMO).

 

Now I wonder if he's staying back and hoping we get a mislynch before he has to address anything.

[Nolder]

20 hours to pull a lynch. I wouldn't wait on anyone at this point.

[Darthe]

Note to Nol, if you complained less and read the threads more you would know that Rorschache was the nickname we decided to give to Pralaya. You don't have problem with Chuckles do you?

[WWWwombat]

Offficial Vote Count:

 

Razen (2/9): peacesells, dapianoplay3r

Krakalakachkn (1/9): lolguy26

Hallia (1/9): Misheru Sedai

peacesells (1/9): Yates.

Yates. (2/9): Verbal32, bgrishinko

 

Not Voting (9/16):

Razen, Krakalakachkn, Mr. Ree, Serra, Hallia, TinaHel, Nolder, Lenlo, Pralaya

[WWWwombat]

18 Hours, 58 Minutes

[bgrishinko]

Offficial Vote Count:

 

Razen (2/9): peacesells, dapianoplay3r

Krakalakachkn (1/9): lolguy26

Hallia (1/9): Misheru Sedai

peacesells (1/9): Yates.

Yates. (2/9): Verbal32, bgrishinko

 

Not Voting (9/16):

Razen, Krakalakachkn, Mr. Ree, Serra, Hallia, TinaHel, Nolder, Lenlo, Pralaya

Now look what you made the mods do Nolder. That's gotta be annoying to type out.

[Nolder]

Note to Nol, if you complained less and read the threads more you would know that Rorschache was the nickname we decided to give to Pralaya. You don't have problem with Chuckles do you?

I do actually. I haven't said anything about nicknames in awhile because whatever no one cares what I say anyway usually but it can really confuse people when you call someone something that has little or nothing to do with their username. Protip: whatever you think is obvious probably isn't to most other people, for it to be obvious it needs to be mindbendingly obvious and then multiplied by 10.

 

That said, I didn't know it referred to Pralaya because I've been skimming so that is my fault although what I said still holds true.

[Nolder]

 

Offficial Vote Count:

 

Razen (2/9): peacesells, dapianoplay3r

Krakalakachkn (1/9): lolguy26

Hallia (1/9): Misheru Sedai

peacesells (1/9): Yates.

Yates. (2/9): Verbal32, bgrishinko

 

Not Voting (9/16):

Razen, Krakalakachkn, Mr. Ree, Serra, Hallia, TinaHel, Nolder, Lenlo, Pralaya

Now look what you made the mods do Nolder. That's gotta be annoying to type out.

 

They are being drama queens. I am not telling them to use full names.

It's pretty clear you are BG, Mish is Misheru Sedai, Krak is Krakalakachkn, and Pralaya could be Pral or Laya, etc, etc.

To use a completely different name though is just confusing. Especially when there's nicknames and pet names. I believe Hallia is sometimes shortened to Hal but I also think someone calls her Hobbit sometimes? How would anyone know who that refers to unless they've spent time around Hallia and whoever says that? In all honesty I could probably figure out most nicknames one could use for people around here if I wanted to but could Yates or Mr Ree? It's just a hassle and more trouble than it's worth in an attempt to be cute.

[bgrishinko]

To be fair, the rorschach thing was first established in this game after a conversation with Darthe about how his real name was hard to write... Then it was funny when they chose rorschach instead since it is also hard to spell. It wasn't a past nickname.

[WWWwombat]

 

Offficial Vote Count:

 

Razen (2/9): peacesells, dapianoplay3r

Krakalakachkn (1/9): lolguy26

Hallia (1/9): Misheru Sedai

peacesells (1/9): Yates.

Yates. (2/9): Verbal32, bgrishinko

 

Not Voting (9/16):

Razen, Krakalakachkn, Mr. Ree, Serra, Hallia, TinaHel, Nolder, Lenlo, Pralaya

Now look what you made the mods do Nolder. That's gotta be annoying to type out.

 

 

Not really.  Krak used to give me trouble but I figured it out a while ago.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

Offficial Vote Count:

 

Razen (2/9): peacesells, dapianoplay3r

Krakalakachkn (1/9): lolguy26

Hallia (1/9): Misheru Sedai

peacesells (1/9): Yates.

Yates. (2/9): Verbal32, bgrishinko

 

Not Voting (9/16):

Razen, Krakalakachkn, Mr. Ree, Serra, Hallia, TinaHel, Nolder, Lenlo, Pralaya

Now look what you made the mods do Nolder. That's gotta be annoying to type out.

 

They are being drama queens. I am not telling them to use full names.

It's pretty clear you are BG, Mish is Misheru Sedai, Krak is Krakalakachkn, and Pralaya could be Pral or Laya, etc, etc.

To use a completely different name though is just confusing. Especially when there's nicknames and pet names. I believe Hallia is sometimes shortened to Hal but I also think someone calls her Hobbit sometimes? How would anyone know who that refers to unless they've spent time around Hallia and whoever says that? In all honesty I could probably figure out most nicknames one could use for people around here if I wanted to but could Yates or Mr Ree? It's just a hassle and more trouble than it's worth in an attempt to be cute.

 

 

If it's not a full name, it's a nickname.  So what you're saying is orthographically obvious nicknames only?  I can do that.

 

And stop projecting, broseph.

[serra]

Haven't really have the time to read up on this, but we're not lynching Razen, and Yates has been defending himself pretty poorly. More tomorrow.

 

VOTE: Yates

[lolguy26]

unvote vote yates

 

I like Verb's case on him and i dont like his defense 

 

 

 

 

 

 

UNOffficial Vote Count:

 

Razen (2/9): peacesells, dapianoplay3r

Hallia (1/9): Misheru Sedai

peacesells (1/9): Yates.

Yates. (4/9): Verbal32, bgrishinko, Serra, Lolguy

 

Not Voting (8/16):

Razen, Krakalakachkn, Mr. Ree, Hallia, TinaHel, Nolder, Lenlo, Pralaya

 

 

 

10 Hours, 40 Minutes

 

[Niniel]

I will try to read back before I vote.

[peacesells]

UNVOTE VOTE YATES

[dapianoplay3r]

UNVOTE VOTE YATES

I'm comfortable with a Yates lynch

 

Ill be more helpful tomorrow. I'm casing Y3 tonight and ill do this tomorrow

[Niniel]

I have read Verbal´s case and I think it´s okay. I will try to catch up during the night. 

 

Vote Yates.

[Yates]

Wherein Yates dismantles this nonsense:

1. Cop direction is bad. Subtle Cop direction is even worse, and scummy.

Bullshit. Prove it. Show me where cop direction is more likely to come from scum than Town.

 

Conversely, I can think of a half dozen roles off the top of my head that would direct a cop. I can also think of a half dozen reasons a VT would direct a cop.

 

Also, to add to your bullshit, I know there's no cop in this game. My role combined with a fliped jailkeep precludes the existance of one. Ergo, I can't be directing a nonexistant role. Ergo, this point is moot/fabricated. I told you as much when you tried setting up your fake case prior to the Cloud flip.

 

2. Trying to focus on the SK or vig issue instead of using what we had. I don't care about leashed SKs (although I support the idea as town moreso than as scum - we should debate this after the game!), but you were trying too hard here to be the problem-solver.

Again - bullshit. First, you are wrong. Leashed SK's are bad for Town. I'll show you volumes of evidence since you are clearly pretending you didn't read the linked thread. Probably because you are scum. I'll find out tonight. Hugs and kisses.

 

Second, your allegation that it is scummy to try to determine if a kill came from an SK or a Vig is laughable. It is in the TOWN'S best interests to REDUCE the number of deaths each night. It is in SCUM'S best interest to keep that number high. You said as much yourself. Ergo, you don't even buy the argument you are trying to sell.

 

3. The "Cop probably viewed me already" defense. Bush league. Hardly ever used by a townie. Nuff said.

Meh. You can have this one. It isn't even worth debating since you had to use the qualifier "hardly ever" which demonstrates that you recognize there are legit scenarios in which Town will use this defense. So congrats, I'll concede you 1/2 a point.

 

4. Contradicting himself. He'll mark this as some sort of misrep, but check the quotes. They don't lie.

Yeah. This actually is a misrep since you are taking an argument out of context and focusing on semantics. You've conceded as much. You know who has to resort to that? Scum.

 

See this?

Atleast we know Despo was telling the truth now.

Is that Lenlo saying it's a "good thing" Des is dead? No. That's Lenlo observing scum removed that piece of doubt. I agree. You know how you know I agree? I said this:

Interesting move by scum. I'm a little surprised they didn't leave Des alive for WIFOM and tomorrows obv lynch target.

To expand upon that:

I *could* but it doesn't change the fact I would want that extra kill. It also doesn't change the fact I would want a potential SK to be the lynch target the following day. Again, the point you are missing is that scum killing Des potentially did us a favor. Scum aren't known for doing Town favors. So it had to be self-serving to some extent.

That "favor," of course, is that they removed any doubt about Des's role. That is NOT the same as:

I would not really view this situation in as positive a light as you appear to be.

I am clearly not painting that as a positive. Rather, I am obviously trying to follow the logic. That's what you should be doing, too. The fact you aren't means you are probably scum with Nolder.

 

5. Offsite meta. Just bad. You can't shoehorn something from a different site with different rules, interpretations, players, mods, even roles sometimes.

This is actually the worst thing you have stated and obviously untrue. Are you seriously trying to say that an SK or Vig on MS is somehow different from an SK or Vig in this game? Also, are you somehow trying to say that broad view MAFIA THEORY is different based on the site you are on? Uhhhhh.... bullshit.

 

1. You don't have meta on me. Barring meta, I showed you exactly how scum Yates treats a leashed SK. You think my meta will be different here and that my opinion on how to treat a leashed SK here will somehow change? Uhhh.... Ok... Hang your hat on that... But at least don't ignore the second point:

2. That thread contains a lengthy discussion of mafia theory involving a leashed SK. Since that game is over and you can see the flips, it should be obvious that scum overwhelmingly wanted to keep the leashed SK around while Town was overwhelmingly opposed. But I guess that's just one game, right? How could that possibly be a fair representation... I roll my eyes at you, sir.

 

 

Claim: Town Watcher

 

Scum is some combination of Nol, Verb, Peace, and Serra in this thread.

[Yates]

Also - I apologize for being super scummy and not being on for every waking moment of this game. I realize now I should have pushed my closing back yesterday and been singularly focused on DM mafia instead. And god damnit if I will ever take a sleep break again! *shakes fist*

 

I will make it up to each and every one of you in the other two threads as well...

[Pralaya]

Is it me or is there a lot of sheeping going on?

 

Peace and Dap have been going after the lynch train right from the beginning - Cloud, Razen and now Yates.

 

Nolder mentioned this a few posts back. I agree that he also put my name along with the two. My vote on Razen was instinct based and had provided the reasoning when I voted. Later I unvoted him after he claimed his role. 

 

I am now leaning towards Peace.

 

vote Peace