August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

serra · July 24, 2013

@BG: Whether or not this game will resemble a role madness game depends on how quickly scum gets rid of PR's. So far this thread has only lost the vig. That means, assuming equal setups, we have at least cop, doc and bus-driver left. If there happen to be one, two, or even three more PR's, killing off a few more VT's means we're approaching the point where scum would be forced to claim a PR, or where the majority of VT claims would actually be scum, both of which are very winnable for town.

Alternatively, if we get down to 10 or so, with both the Doc and Cop remaining and all cop-counters dead (at the moment, we only know of the venge-killer), we can follow-the-cop for the win.

I can understand that you're suspicious of people coming along and suggesting allegedly "optimal" play that goes against site-meta, but I can promise you I have no scummy intention.

lolguy26 · July 24, 2013

So many doubts. He should give us his reads.

The role setups in these games seem to be fairly identical. Minor changes here and there to make them unique but not too different.

if you give you my reads, will that somehow confirm me ?

yates actually

Did you get a Yates read as scum?

yes for all the good it did

Verbal32 · July 24, 2013

VC?

Pralaya · July 24, 2013

Now, a question to the MODS. This is the same question that Yates asked in T2 yesterday

Speaking of night actions... I have a question for you guys. Let's say I'm a cop and I investigate a symp/traitor. Would my result return as innocent or guilty? I know in MS it would return as innocent but I just wanted clarity on that point.

Darthe · July 24, 2013

Screw iPhones

Darthe · July 24, 2013

PAFO

Verbal32 · July 24, 2013

Now, a question to the MODS. This is the same question that Yates asked in T2 yesterday

Speaking of night actions... I have a question for you guys. Let's say I'm a cop and I investigate a symp/traitor. Would my result return as innocent or guilty? I know in MS it would return as innocent but I just wanted clarity on that point.

Dude, really? You expect the mods to answer that and either confirm or deny a player's claim in game? I'd tee off on a mod that contradicted a play I was making, regardless of my alignment.

If Chuckles had never said anything, maybe we'd get something. Probably still a PAFO, though.

WWWwombat · July 24, 2013

Official Vote Count:

Cloud (1/9): Nol

Serra (5/9): BG, Verb, Ishy, Rorschach (AKA Prelaya), Des

Des (1/9): Serra

Not Voting (10/17):

Chuckles, Cloud, Hally, Razen, Len, Dap, Krak, Tink, Tina, Ree

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

WWWwombat · July 24, 2013

1 Day, 22 Hours

Nolder · July 24, 2013

I'm such a rebel.

In all honesty though I'm getting way more scum vibes from Cloud than Serra.

I'm wondering what the people not voting are doing though? Do you guys have no opinions or what? What are you waiting for?

Lenlo · July 24, 2013

Eh... Im not seeing the Serra case. I see the language he was using and I dont think its a setup for a mass claim. Why setup in such an obvious way when it would be better if you outright said "I want a mass claim". Doesnt make sense to me.

Vote BG

To me it really looks like BG is forcing us to look at what Serra is saying in a way that he didnt mean for it to. Id be willing to switch to Cloud later, but I dont want to lynch Serra on that crap.

Krakalakachkn · July 24, 2013

I made my case earlier and I haven't seen a reason to change my mind.

Vote Cloud

lolguy26 · July 24, 2013

Yeah it really made no sense for him to claim Cop then, but I will just trust Chuckles on this. I always get a scum read on Chuckles, and I don't want to risk lynching a Cop because of the way he plays.

Blind trust. Why?

I'm confused nolder, your saying that you'd rather lynch off an UN CC cop and have me reveal the 1 townie who will be the main focus of NK's come night, its as far as I can see a lose lose sitution for town

You need to get those results out there! It doesnt matter if the scum team is going to go after confirmed townies after you die, because it will be way worse if we waste our lynches on them! We can figure out a lot more with your info.

What? No no no no. No. That's not how this works.

If you leave him alive he doesn't out his innocent results. Blind trust requires, you know, trust.

Innocent results are on a need to know basis. If lolguy isn't assured death then we don't need to know because the innocents just become targets.

FOS

So is this all cuz i went back to pages 36-37 didnt anything other than that

I'm still sticking with my vote on Chuckles because I don't think that Peace pulled off a mafia gambit.

I smell Gambit.

Could be. And the more I think about it, now would be a helluva time to try. There are four dead Townies in this thread compared to zero scum, they're probably feeling cocky.

And even if not, what if the real Cop had cc'd genius? That was completely reckless and stupid.

Unvote. Vote Peace.

I see the point you are making about the real cop cc'ing and how that would screw up town, but Peace didn't claim to be the cop. He could have been a tracker for all we know. Peace not claiming a role and just saying that Serra is scum and then unvoting when he got to L-1 makes me think that it was just a town gambit to see how Serra would react, and in my opinion he reacted pretty townie.

As I said, Town isn't in a position to pull boneheaded moves, we're getting our asses handed to us so far, but scum is in a prime position to try something off the wall. Which is what you did.

So you're either scum or a detriment to Town. Gotta go.

It's true that we aren't in a good position right now, and that the scum can afford to be more creative, but lynching Peace because he is a detriment to town won't help either.

Unvote vote Peace

Nope. Not ok with fake BS like this.

Think outside the box for a second. (S)he just saw Verb break down and basically claim scum in T1. And all Tina had to do was say "Verb is scum" and everyone followed. Peace saw this as an opportunity to gut check her top scum read, Serra. Serra did NOT break down like Verb so Peace admitted to the gambit and stopped the lynch. It was ballsy yes. But not scummy. If she had gotten a claim out of Serra? You'd have a stronger argument. As it is - no harm, no foul and I feel like Serra and Peace BOTH come out looking Townier for it.

I agree.

Tina..you voted me without a reason. Care to explain your thoughts on why my play is sign of scum?

Basically all several of you are saying is "it could be a gambit." Is that the best you got?

How exactly would this "gambit" play out? What could possible be accomplished from it?

Let's see. Pull votes from a chuckles train and push them on Serra...except I stopped the Serra lynch. Ok..now Chuckles is safe yet I'm on the hook. Chuckles and I are scum partners in this scenario. So yall who believe this is the case you are basically stating I'm willing to trade my life for chuckles and let Serra live? If I'm scum and willing to trade lives...I let Serra die and flip town (if town) and take my lumps the next day. At least a town player is taken with me.

Ok..let's act like Serra is scum and I am scum. My play takes heat off Chuckles and points it directly and me and Serra. That's a wise play for any scum team to make (sarcasm). That's a pretty effective ploy. But wait..it's a gambit. The QT is all about how "no way will they think we'd be so obvious." But wait...Nolders game was just like that right? I'm not saying it isn't possible (anything is possible in a mafia game) but that is a bold move.

Or, maybe just I am scum and was trying to get Serra lynched cause I believe him to be a PR of some sort. But..I pulled the rip cord and bailed out at the very ended hoping that I could save myself from looking bad...perhaps even gain some town cred.

That last scenario is the only legit gambit type play that could be going on here if I'm scum. But I'm not. I'm just a little teenage girl who likes social networking and talking with funny accents named Jannessee Linneaux. Funny that Yates was calling me "she" in this thread. Wonder what he knows??

I also like this post from Peace as he explains why it most likely isn't a mafia gambit because there won't be any profit in doing it, especially because we aren't at endgame.

Tina didn't claim either. Too obvious a play to full on claim.

Well, it's worth a shot as we have already had two Vengeful Killers and the timing was a bit too perfect with how things turned out in T1.

Unvote, Vote Peace

Wow, that was quick. Opportunistic much?

Just came back from a festival and I apparently didn't end up getting lynched. Sweet!

Before I read up (which might have to be tomorrow, because I'm shattered):

Peace is scum. You simply don't get town fake softclaiming cop. The fact that I'm still alive means either the cop was stupid enough to cc, or peace backpedalled before I got lynched to save himself. Please let it be the latter.

VOTE: Peace

A general comment about cop play: never, ever out yourself before you need to (either to save yourself or a valuable PR), particularly in a game of this size. Lynching one scum is generally not worth losing the cop. Cop results should be breadcrumbed, so the cop should never need to claim before LyLo.

He did indeed backpedal.

Really, are you trying to...hide in plain sight? I'm still waiting on a[ny] case.

Hallia. Every statement is opportunistic. Very little original thought and when she does make a statement it is completely illogical.

Dap classic scumtell is not being decisive. Hedging his statements.

Ishy's whole exchange with me early in the play was completely off. He was being obstinate about the whole Csarmi thing..then wanted me lynched for bad play regardless on whether I am town or not even though "we can't afford bad play now." Then backed off when I pointed out the hypocrisy of that statement.

Town reads on Despo and Nolder.

honestly i dont want to waste a day on people going back and forth cuz of me, im town cop

and is lily in the game?!!

id go with krak tbh,

*facepalm*

Ffs man.. Why did you claim now without any kind of pressure?! Peace had the most votes on him and the only thing that you did with this move is most likely getting yourself killed tonight.

honestly i dont want to waste a day on people going back and forth cuz of me, im town cop

... I feel like I've heard this all before. Investigation results? Breadcrumbs? Why now with zero pressure? The usual...

Yeah it really made no sense for him to claim Cop then, but I will just trust Chuckles on this. I always get a scum read on Chuckles, and I don't want to risk lynching a Cop because of the way he plays.

I'm confused nolder, your saying that you'd rather lynch off an UN CC cop and have me reveal the 1 townie who will be the main focus of NK's come night, its as far as I can see a lose lose sitution for town

You need to get those results out there! It doesnt matter if the scum team is going to go after confirmed townies after you die, because it will be way worse if we waste our lynches on them! We can figure out a lot more with your info.

I prefer lynching serra

vote serra

And we still have time, if everyone moves trains (ill be here till the DL, ill check in as often as I can)

Umm.. no. Peace is the way to go.

Scum reads in order:

Peace

Despo

Hallia

Ishy

Tries to get lolguy to reveal his innocent reads...like lolguy wouldn't do that if it were more important than vanilla or protecting a PR. Suddenly Peace jumps up to his #1 scum read? After just agreeing with Yates' and Peace's arguments on why Peace would do what he did. After BG references Tina from T2.

@Verb: I'll give you that, a BPV doesn't remove all their utility necessarily. But still a good chunk of it. Say the mafia end up targeting the BPV without realizing it, and get no kill. They could think it was the BPV, could think their target was being doc protected, or could think they had uncovered the Doc themselves. If they thought the latter, they could end up spending two NK's on essentially a glorified vanilla. Outing the BPV removes this possibility.

And yes, I do think it was a kind of scum slip. I think Serra thought he could slip that little suggestion in without catching huge flak for it. And you DON'T need to out the BPV to solidify the belief that there will be a Doc/Cop in the thread imo. Already seen two diff VK's die in diff games, and two diff vigs as well.

Cloud def reeks for his backing up that suggestion btw. Then says I'm scum without ever addressing my post against the idea.

And yeah, had a feeling Peace would flip scum. He did make a bad play however. And Yates, I do think BG is right- the wifom Chuckles may have been setting up would have been fine on its own. The wifom you introduced also seems like it could have been an attempt to gain town cred, and also weakens Chuckles wifom if that's what his play was.

and this was krak's case

Krakalakachkn · July 24, 2013

Thanks?

lolguy26 · July 24, 2013

ive had troubling accessing internet through my laptop for the last week or so and i dont know when its going to get fixed so quoting here for future reference makes it easier when im on the phone

and your welcome :wink:

Nolder · July 24, 2013

You are very good at quoting things people have said lolguy.

lolguy26 · July 24, 2013

its one of my many talents, another major one is pissing people off

but back to the game, is that the only reason or is there more?

Nolder · July 25, 2013

Only reason what?

lolguy26 · July 25, 2013

Your vote on cloud and the reason he's giving you scummy vibes etc

Anyways I'm off, cya all when I get on later

Darthe · July 25, 2013

Official Vote Count:

Cloud (2/9): Nol, Krak

Serra (5/9): BG, Verb, Ishy, Rorschach (AKA Prelaya), Des

Des (1/9): Serra

BG (1/9): Len

Not Voting (8/17):

Chuckles, Cloud, Hally, Razen, Dap, Tink, Tina, Ree

1 Day, 7 Hours.

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Verbal32 · July 25, 2013

I'm having doubts on this serra lynch.

Razen · July 25, 2013

honestly i dont want to waste a day on people going back and forth cuz of me, im town cop

and is lily in the game?!!

id go with krak tbh,

*facepalm*

Ffs man.. Why did you claim now without any kind of pressure?! Peace had the most votes on him and the only thing that you did with this move is most likely getting yourself killed tonight.

3 things:

1. I am again posting even though I probably shouldn't. It's 4am here, and checking how this thread is going is literally the last thing I'm doing before passing out. This is not me lurking, this is me having busy weekends... Surely, if I actually was following the thread, the most opportune time to vote peace, if I were scum trying to get him lynched, would have been DIRECTLY after he pulled the brake line.

2. I, too, would expect a Doc protection to only prevent a single kill. If this is different here, that'd actually quite surprise me. @mod: if a doctor role exists in this game, does it protect from multiple kills?

3. I believe chuckles' cop claim. There's should be now way in heck we're lynching him today. Yates is good for his unvote and further explanation. Nolder is less so. Even though I know no one will listen to my suggested play, my suggestion would be to ask the bullet-proof townie in this thread to claim, which would pretty much confirm that all 3 threads have the same PR's, meaning we can keep chuckles alive. Before anyone complains about me role-fishing: I suggest outing probably the weakest PR we have in this thread to stop people from lynching the cop, who may be our only hope of winning this, as well as giving us valuable information for the town-games in the other threads. If there actually is a bullet-proof townie in this thread and the two others, I would actually also consider the possibility that the game could be solved by a game-wide mass claim.

I will actually read the other threads tomorrow (probably morning)...

I actually really like this idea from Serra and after reading the last few pages I have a town read on him.

I'm confused nolder, your saying that you'd rather lynch off an UN CC cop and have me reveal the 1 townie who will be the main focus of NK's come night, its as far as I can see a lose lose sitution for town

You need to get those results out there! It doesnt matter if the scum team is going to go after confirmed townies after you die, because it will be way worse if we waste our lynches on them! We can figure out a lot more with your info.

I prefer lynching serra

vote serra

And we still have time, if everyone moves trains (ill be here till the DL, ill check in as often as I can)

Umm.. no. Peace is the way to go.

This post is enough to make me believe that Cloud is scum. Here's why. First of all, he puts on the fake "wtf, why did you reveal with no pressure on you at all" hat and tries to gain town cred. He kept hammering home the point that Chuckles was going to get killed that night and used that as his reasoning to push him to reveal who his innocent was. He even went so far as to justify Chuckles revealing the innocents so that we don't waste lynches on them after he's dead. There's only one person at that point, but he's speaking as if there's a lot of people there that it could possibly remove from the picture.

Why was he so certain that Chuckles would be killed? Normally, I'd believe it a semi-safe assumption to make, but there is a doctor still out there. And no doctor's going to be dumb enough to not protect an un-CC'ed cop. I think Cloud is going on blind faith in Chuckles because he knows that he's telling the truth.

Last, he pushes people to vote Peace over Serra. This was after the hammer on Peace, but I think it interesting that Cloud agreed with Serra's idea re:BPV claim, and tried to direct Chuckles to vote for Peace.

Vote: Cloud

Verbal32 · July 25, 2013

Glad you decided to rejoin the fray, Razen. I was going to case the inactives, but I can't be bothered to dig for 7 posts buried within the 43 pages of this game.

Verbal32 · July 25, 2013

Unvote

Vote: Ree

I don't care if it loses us the game and lynches our remaining power roles. Inactivity is why I left DM mafia. I came back because I heard it was trending upward.

serra · July 25, 2013

Scum are sitting idly by while the deadline ticks away, and I'll be people's compromise lynch...

So far, save for PR intervention, the person who was lynched was the least charismatic of those who are active, which is really rather toxic.

I do still think Desp is scum in this one. His vote for me is incredibly opportunistic, and he's setting up chuckles for a mislynch in the same post.

Ree would be a pretty decent lynch for the game as a whole. He'll remain unreadable until LyLo.

I still don't see cloud as scum.

August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

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