August 9, 2013: CONCLUDED

[Nolder]

 

 

 

Right, asking me who I viewed isn't fishing at all

It's not.  At ALL.  If you are telling the truth, you're likely going to be targeted by both scum AND 3rd party - which would leave your claimed "innocent" out there safe until your role is confirmed one way or another.  Doc [if exists] isn't going to save you from 2 attacks, bud.  You should have thought your claim out more fully.

 

and then after that, what your telling me is to tell you who i viewed and paint a big target on their back, after i flip 

 

 

Let me ask you this, Chuckles, how do you plan on proving your role?  Also, how would we know any future results are legit?

if i get a guilty result, we lynch the person, and there we have it, according to how i accurate the flip is to my results, but you already know all that, i just cant fathom why you asked me this question 

 

 

And not to mention that Chuckles needs to reveal his reads so we can know for sure that he isn't lying. 

 

To the bolded: and what if you never catch a scum? If you are fake claiming Cop then this would be awfully convenient for you.

 

FOSx2+wtf

[Nolder]

Welp, darn. Still a bad play on Peace's part. Hopefully, tomorrow will be more insightful.

 

For what its worth, I want to get this out now:

 

My mafia reads are: Serra and Prayala

 

My town reads are Despo, Verbal, and Chuckles.

Can you explain your town reads?

Des is ok in my book but IIRC Verbal has been mostly MIA and lolguy has either played a terrible game or is scum so I'd like to know how you have town reads on them.

[Nolder]

 

Alright so one day.

 

Ehhh, not a lot of time to decide things.

We aren't guaranteed a doctor (or a cop for that matter).

I think it's best to just off lolguy and take our chances.

If he outs his innocent and he wasn't lying and IF we have a doctor they can protect the innocent tonight.

Not a bad deal all things considered. Lotta if's obviously but I don't trust lolguy at all and he hasn't said anything since I unvoted to make me think it'd be worth keeping him around.

 

Dude........bad idea.  Like, really bad.  I'm surprised you'd even suggest it.

 

Explain why it's a really bad idea?

Not that it matters anymore apparently but I'm curious.

[lolguy26]

Nolder, dude, you dont believe that im cop, cuz i played a bad game or whatever i get it, but just tell me this, do you usually advocate lynching UN-CC cop or am i just special?

[Verbal32]

@Des: you are viewing the BPV utility in early-mid game, but I'm referring to the endgame utility.....which is where I think it means more to town.

 

The fewer clean shots you offer scum in an endgame situation, the better your odds are of having your Doc (assuming they are alive) save the day.

 

/Captain Obvious

[Nolder]

 

 

Day 2 Final Vote Count

 

Peace (10/10): Hally, Len, BG, Dap, Tina, Cloud, Serra, Tiink, Des, Pralaya

Ishy (1/10):Verb

Chuckles (2/10): Razen, Nol

Serra (1/10): Peace

 

Not Voting (5/19):

Chuckles, Krak, Ree, Ishy, Yates

 

 

LMK if I messed it up.  Scene when Darthe gets on.

Oh.....

 

Well ok then.

Eff you guys I'm going to get some breakfast since what I say is completely irrelevant anyway.

 

Apparently it is. people shouldnt BS cop like that and expect rainbows and sunshine to come their way.

I agree but at the same time we have to forgive people their mistakes when we can.

Townies will make bad moves and look scummy more often than the actual scum.

We are looking for manipulators, not derps. If Peace was scum he would have just let Serra get lynched and then cried result manipulation or something.

The fact that he stopped the lynch said a lot I think. It was enough for me anyway.

[Nolder]

 

 

I´m not sure what to think about Chuckles. First it looked like Peace tried to out the cop and when that didn´t go well Chuckles reveals cop with almost no pressure. Having said that, why vote for a uncc´d cop? Not a good idea. 

 

I´m still satisfied with my vote on Peace.

I've been over this already but I'll go over it again.

 

First of all we don't know that he's actually a cop. What cop reveals at L-8?

If we are going to let him live it's because we are going to trust him and his reads.

Did anyone else find him scummy before he revealed? I know I did, obviously, and the reveal didn't change anything.

When he pops up eventually saying X person is guilty...I'm not going to believe it. I'm sorry if you guys think it's dumb not to trust an un-cc'd "cop" but that's exactly what the town in my kingdom hearts game thought and it got them railroaded. I'm not going to lynch or trust anyone on lolguy's word so as a cop he's useless until he died. Since he's scummy I say have him reveal his innocent and lynch him now. If he flips cop hopefully we have a doctor and they protect the innocent so we have someone to lead town tomorrow. That's what I see as the best case scenario.

 

 

As the player that fake claimed Cop in your referenced game, allow me to qualify myself as somebody who can speak to this.

 

2 totally different situations.  I was already on the hot seat....like, really hot.  From D2.  There was no way I was escaping a lynch.  And I was waayyyy farther along that L-8.  And we were much farther into the game.  And our whole gameplan revolved around playing risky and throwing ourselves into the town's face.  You can't compare that situation to this one.

 

If he is Cop, did he reveal too early?  Yes, I'd say so (imo).  But you can't automatically assume that means he's fake claiming.  And you can't turn that into an excuse to lay blame at the feet of people playing it 'by the book'.  There is nothing wrong with playing it that way.  That said, I purposely didn't NK townies in your game that play it by the book, because I knew they'd go with me on my claim and subsequent fake guilty on Krak.  But like I said - you can't compare the games.

 

Explain how it's different. Why can't the same thing be happening in this game? 

[Verbal32]

 

 

Alright so one day.

 

Ehhh, not a lot of time to decide things.

We aren't guaranteed a doctor (or a cop for that matter).

I think it's best to just off lolguy and take our chances.

If he outs his innocent and he wasn't lying and IF we have a doctor they can protect the innocent tonight.

Not a bad deal all things considered. Lotta if's obviously but I don't trust lolguy at all and he hasn't said anything since I unvoted to make me think it'd be worth keeping him around.

Dude........bad idea. Like, really bad. I'm surprised you'd even suggest it.

Explain why it's a really bad idea?

Not that it matters anymore apparently but I'm curious.

Not sure if SRS.

 

Lynch the potential Cop? Before he has a chance to find scum? Simply because you don't believe him? If you're wrong, you take a sledgehammer to the town's chances.

[Nolder]

Nolder, dude, you dont believe that im cop, cuz i played a bad game or whatever i get it, but just tell me this, do you usually advocate lynching UN-CC cop or am i just special?

Emo much? You just hand waved the exact reason why I want to lynch you (bad play) and then asked me why I want to lynch you.

[Nolder]

 

 

 

Alright so one day.

 

Ehhh, not a lot of time to decide things.

We aren't guaranteed a doctor (or a cop for that matter).

I think it's best to just off lolguy and take our chances.

If he outs his innocent and he wasn't lying and IF we have a doctor they can protect the innocent tonight.

Not a bad deal all things considered. Lotta if's obviously but I don't trust lolguy at all and he hasn't said anything since I unvoted to make me think it'd be worth keeping him around.

Dude........bad idea. Like, really bad. I'm surprised you'd even suggest it.

Explain why it's a really bad idea?

Not that it matters anymore apparently but I'm curious.

Not sure if SRS.

 

Lynch the potential Cop? Before he has a chance to find scum? Simply because you don't believe him? If you're wrong, you take a sledgehammer to the town's chances.

 

That's the biggest load of bull and always has been. I don't know what it is with people and thinking that they can't win a game without investigation roles.

How many games have you seen won without a cop? How many games where the cop was killed N1 or derped up and got lynched without claiming or got roleblocked all game or whatever. Cops are nice. They are awesome. We don't need them to win.

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

 

I´m not sure what to think about Chuckles. First it looked like Peace tried to out the cop and when that didn´t go well Chuckles reveals cop with almost no pressure. Having said that, why vote for a uncc´d cop? Not a good idea.

 

I´m still satisfied with my vote on Peace.

I've been over this already but I'll go over it again.

 

First of all we don't know that he's actually a cop. What cop reveals at L-8?

If we are going to let him live it's because we are going to trust him and his reads.

Did anyone else find him scummy before he revealed? I know I did, obviously, and the reveal didn't change anything.

When he pops up eventually saying X person is guilty...I'm not going to believe it. I'm sorry if you guys think it's dumb not to trust an un-cc'd "cop" but that's exactly what the town in my kingdom hearts game thought and it got them railroaded. I'm not going to lynch or trust anyone on lolguy's word so as a cop he's useless until he died. Since he's scummy I say have him reveal his innocent and lynch him now. If he flips cop hopefully we have a doctor and they protect the innocent so we have someone to lead town tomorrow. That's what I see as the best case scenario.

As the player that fake claimed Cop in your referenced game, allow me to qualify myself as somebody who can speak to this.

 

2 totally different situations. I was already on the hot seat....like, really hot. From D2. There was no way I was escaping a lynch. And I was waayyyy farther along that L-8. And we were much farther into the game. And our whole gameplan revolved around playing risky and throwing ourselves into the town's face. You can't compare that situation to this one.

 

If he is Cop, did he reveal too early? Yes, I'd say so (imo). But you can't automatically assume that means he's fake claiming. And you can't turn that into an excuse to lay blame at the feet of people playing it 'by the book'. There is nothing wrong with playing it that way. That said, I purposely didn't NK townies in your game that play it by the book, because I knew they'd go with me on my claim and subsequent fake guilty on Krak. But like I said - you can't compare the games.

Explain how it's different. Why can't the same thing be happening in this game?

Simple: TIMING.

 

Timing is everything for a fake claim. Mine was a perfect example. It wasn't even that rock solid. I didn't need to truly sell it much. Why? Because my timing was good.

[lolguy26]

 

Nolder, dude, you dont believe that im cop, cuz i played a bad game or whatever i get it, but just tell me this, do you usually advocate lynching UN-CC cop or am i just special?

Emo much? You just hand waved the exact reason why I want to lynch you (bad play) and then asked me why I want to lynch you.

 

not really emo, and i asked you, if you usually lynch cops or not 

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

 

Alright so one day.

 

Ehhh, not a lot of time to decide things.

We aren't guaranteed a doctor (or a cop for that matter).

I think it's best to just off lolguy and take our chances.

If he outs his innocent and he wasn't lying and IF we have a doctor they can protect the innocent tonight.

Not a bad deal all things considered. Lotta if's obviously but I don't trust lolguy at all and he hasn't said anything since I unvoted to make me think it'd be worth keeping him around.

Dude........bad idea. Like, really bad. I'm surprised you'd even suggest it.

Explain why it's a really bad idea?

Not that it matters anymore apparently but I'm curious.

Not sure if SRS.

 

Lynch the potential Cop? Before he has a chance to find scum? Simply because you don't believe him? If you're wrong, you take a sledgehammer to the town's chances.

That's the biggest load of bull and always has been. I don't know what it is with people and thinking that they can't win a game without investigation roles.

How many games have you seen won without a cop? How many games where the cop was killed N1 or derped up and got lynched without claiming or got roleblocked all game or whatever. Cops are nice. They are awesome. We don't need them to win.

Did I say we "need" the Cop to win? We've seen non-vanilla scum thus far - makes sense to not needlessly throw away a potentially useful tool, right?

 

But you certainly hurt our chances greatly by removing a role used to balance the power between town & scum.

 

I'm surprised you're using an emo response after just criticizing Chuckles for the same thing.

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

Day 2 Final Vote Count

 

Peace (10/10): Hally, Len, BG, Dap, Tina, Cloud, Serra, Tiink, Des, Pralaya

Ishy (1/10):Verb

Chuckles (2/10): Razen, Nol

Serra (1/10): Peace

 

Not Voting (5/19):

Chuckles, Krak, Ree, Ishy, Yates

 

 

LMK if I messed it up.  Scene when Darthe gets on.

Oh.....

 

Well ok then.

Eff you guys I'm going to get some breakfast since what I say is completely irrelevant anyway.

 

Apparently it is. people shouldnt BS cop like that and expect rainbows and sunshine to come their way.

I agree but at the same time we have to forgive people their mistakes when we can.

Townies will make bad moves and look scummy more often than the actual scum.

We are looking for manipulators, not derps. If Peace was scum he would have just let Serra get lynched and then cried result manipulation or something.

The fact that he stopped the lynch said a lot I think. It was enough for me anyway.

 

No he couldnt have. I can almost guarntee you that if Serra had flipped town after all that he would have been insta-lynched come day for his BS. Then we would be down 2 townies instead of just 1 who  thought it a good idea to make a stupid move.

[Verbal32]

Yep.

[Niniel]

fos Tina. Agrees Serra is def scum. Still votes Peace even though vote based on uncertainty. 12 hours not enough for you?

 

No, 12 hours is usually not enough if you need 10 votes. You know this.

 

 

I´m not sure what to think about Chuckles. First it looked like Peace tried to out the cop and when that didn´t go well Chuckles reveals cop with almost no pressure. Having said that, why vote for a uncc´d cop? Not a good idea. 

 

I´m still satisfied with my vote on Peace.

I've been over this already but I'll go over it again.

 

First of all we don't know that he's actually a cop. What cop reveals at L-8?

If we are going to let him live it's because we are going to trust him and his reads.

Did anyone else find him scummy before he revealed? I know I did, obviously, and the reveal didn't change anything.

When he pops up eventually saying X person is guilty...I'm not going to believe it. I'm sorry if you guys think it's dumb not to trust an un-cc'd "cop" but that's exactly what the town in my kingdom hearts game thought and it got them railroaded. I'm not going to lynch or trust anyone on lolguy's word so as a cop he's useless until he died. Since he's scummy I say have him reveal his innocent and lynch him now. If he flips cop hopefully we have a doctor and they protect the innocent so we have someone to lead town tomorrow. That's what I see as the best case scenario.

 

 

After your game I will be extra careful not to totally believe people that claims power roles. I also think it was weird to claim that early. But... noone has cc´d and, thinking about how it is usually here at DM, there is probably a cop in the game. So no, I don´t 100% believe Chuckles but until someone cc I will not vote him. Of course town can win without a cop but games can be so much easier with one. Fos again for wanting to lynch him. 

[hazelkrs1]

 

fos Tina. Agrees Serra is def scum. Still votes Peace even though vote based on uncertainty. 12 hours not enough for you?

 

No, 12 hours is usually not enough if you need 10 votes. You know this.

 

 

I´m not sure what to think about Chuckles. First it looked like Peace tried to out the cop and when that didn´t go well Chuckles reveals cop with almost no pressure. Having said that, why vote for a uncc´d cop? Not a good idea. 

 

I´m still satisfied with my vote on Peace.

I've been over this already but I'll go over it again.

 

First of all we don't know that he's actually a cop. What cop reveals at L-8?

If we are going to let him live it's because we are going to trust him and his reads.

Did anyone else find him scummy before he revealed? I know I did, obviously, and the reveal didn't change anything.

When he pops up eventually saying X person is guilty...I'm not going to believe it. I'm sorry if you guys think it's dumb not to trust an un-cc'd "cop" but that's exactly what the town in my kingdom hearts game thought and it got them railroaded. I'm not going to lynch or trust anyone on lolguy's word so as a cop he's useless until he died. Since he's scummy I say have him reveal his innocent and lynch him now. If he flips cop hopefully we have a doctor and they protect the innocent so we have someone to lead town tomorrow. That's what I see as the best case scenario.

 

 

After your game I will be extra careful not to totally believe people that claims power roles. I also think it was weird to claim that early. But... noone has cc´d and, thinking about how it is usually here at DM, there is probably a cop in the game. So no, I don´t 100% believe Chuckles but until someone cc I will not vote him. Of course town can win without a cop but games can be so much easier with one. Fos again for wanting to lynch him. 

 

 

I agree with both sentiments here. Town read on Tina this game.

 

Fwiw, I personally don't have a problem with early claims, especially when they are a PR. Holding back a claim till much later can be seen as holding the town hostage. Early claiming gives more chance for a CC, and more time to move on to other lynches if need be. It's a town move a lot of times imo. Now, if it's an early claim that is also too convenient for the situation, I might pause a little longer, but either way the early claim itself I don't have a problem with.

[serra]

@Verb: I'll give you that, a BPV doesn't remove all their utility necessarily. But still a good chunk of it. Say the mafia end up targeting the BPV without realizing it, and get no kill. They could think it was the BPV, could think their target was being doc protected, or could think they had uncovered the Doc themselves. If they thought the latter, they could end up spending two NK's on essentially a glorified vanilla. Outing the BPV removes this possibility.

 

And yes, I do think it was a kind of scum slip. I think Serra thought he could slip that little suggestion in without catching huge flak for it. And you DON'T need to out the BPV to solidify the belief that there will be a Doc/Cop in the thread imo. Already seen two diff VK's die in diff games, and two diff vigs as well.

 

Cloud def reeks for his backing up that suggestion btw. Then says I'm scum without ever addressing my post against the idea.

 

And yeah, had a feeling Peace would flip scum. He did make a bad play however. And Yates, I do think BG is right- the wifom Chuckles may have been setting up would have been fine on its own. The wifom you introduced also seems like it could have been an attempt to gain town cred, and also weakens Chuckles wifom if that's what his play was.

 

In response to the bold: what you're suggesting is that I wanted to slip in the suggestion of a BPV claim without catching flak for it. However, if I didn't think it would become a talking point, why point it out at all? I was fully intending for people to discuss it, with full knowledge of the fact that some people might disagree. Why else do you think I would try to "slip in" my idea of a good strategy? Surely if the response to my earlier probability theory is any indication, I would hardly do it in the hope of gaining some towncred for it, so how you think this is anything close to a scumslip is beyond me.

 

I'll admit I didn't check how many other coinciding flips we've had, but the vig is a pretty common role, and we could have scum-roles coinciding without town-roles, but I guess that's speculation. I still think the information would be useful, and as verbal said, claiming would be useful for the BPV in the long run. The usefulness of the BPV as you outline it only comes into play IF scum decides to target him. The usefulness of a non-nightkillable basically confirmed townie is undeniable.

[Krakalakachkn]

I'm still sticking with my vote on Chuckles because I don't think that Peace pulled off a mafia gambit. 

 

 

 

I smell Gambit.

Could be. And the more I think about it, now would be a helluva time to try. There are four dead Townies in this thread compared to zero scum, they're probably feeling cocky.

 

And even if not, what if the real Cop had cc'd genius? That was completely reckless and stupid.

 

Unvote. Vote Peace.

 

 

I see the point you are making about the real cop cc'ing and how that would screw up town, but Peace didn't claim to be the cop. He could have been a tracker for all we know. Peace not claiming a role and just saying that Serra is scum and then unvoting when he got to L-1 makes me think that it was just a town gambit to see how Serra would react, and in my opinion he reacted pretty townie.

 

 

As I said, Town isn't in a position to pull boneheaded moves, we're getting our asses handed to us so far, but scum is in a prime position to try something off the wall. Which is what you did.

 

So you're either scum or a detriment to Town. Gotta go.

 

It's true that we aren't in a good position right now, and that the scum can afford to be more creative, but lynching Peace because he is a detriment to town won't help either.

 

 

 

Unvote vote Peace

 

Nope. Not ok with fake BS like this.

Think outside the box for a second.  (S)he just saw Verb break down and basically claim scum in T1.  And all Tina had to do was say "Verb is scum" and everyone followed.  Peace saw this as an opportunity to gut check her top scum read, Serra.  Serra did NOT break down like Verb so Peace admitted to the gambit and stopped the lynch.  It was ballsy yes.  But not scummy.  If she had gotten a claim out of Serra?  You'd have a stronger argument.  As it is - no harm, no foul and I feel like Serra and Peace BOTH come out looking Townier for it.

 

 

I agree.

 

 

Tina..you voted me without a reason.  Care to explain your thoughts on why my play is sign of scum? 

 

Basically all several of you are saying is "it could be a gambit."  Is that the best you got?

 

How exactly would this "gambit" play out?  What could possible be accomplished from it? 

 

Let's see.  Pull votes from a chuckles train and push them on Serra...except I stopped the Serra lynch.  Ok..now Chuckles is safe yet I'm on the hook.  Chuckles and I are scum partners in this scenario.  So yall who believe this is the case you are basically stating I'm willing to trade my life for chuckles and let Serra live?  If I'm scum and willing to trade lives...I let Serra die and flip town (if town) and take my lumps the next day.  At least a town player is taken with me. 

 

Ok..let's act like Serra is scum and I am scum.  My play takes heat off Chuckles and points it directly and me and Serra.  That's a wise play for any scum team to make (sarcasm).  That's a pretty effective ploy.  But wait..it's a gambit.  The QT is all about how "no way will they think we'd be so obvious."  But wait...Nolders game was just like that right? I'm not saying it isn't possible (anything is possible in a mafia game) but that is a bold move.

 

Or, maybe just I am scum and was trying to get Serra lynched cause I believe him to be a PR of some sort.  But..I pulled the rip cord and bailed out at the very ended hoping that I could save myself from looking bad...perhaps even gain some town cred.

 

That last scenario is the only legit gambit type play that could be going on here if I'm scum.  But I'm not.  I'm just a little teenage girl who likes social networking and talking with funny accents named Jannessee Linneaux.  Funny that Yates was calling me "she" in this thread.  Wonder what he knows??

 

I also like this post from Peace as he explains why it most likely isn't a mafia gambit because there won't be any profit in doing it, especially because we aren't at endgame.

 

 

Tina didn't claim either. Too obvious a play to full on claim.

 

 

Well, it's worth a shot as we have already had two Vengeful Killers and the timing was a bit too perfect with how things turned out in T1.

 

 

Unvote, Vote Peace

 

Wow, that was quick.  Opportunistic much?

 

 

 

Just came back from a festival and I apparently didn't end up getting lynched. Sweet!

 

Before I read up (which might have to be tomorrow, because I'm shattered):

 

Peace is scum. You simply don't get town fake softclaiming cop. The fact that I'm still alive means either the cop was stupid enough to cc, or peace backpedalled before I got lynched to save himself. Please let it be the latter.

 

VOTE: Peace

 

A general comment about cop play: never, ever out yourself before you need to (either to save yourself or a valuable PR), particularly in a game of this size. Lynching one scum is generally not worth losing the cop. Cop results should be breadcrumbed, so the cop should never need to claim before LyLo.

 

 

He did indeed backpedal.

 

Really, are you trying to...hide in plain sight?  I'm still waiting on a[ny] case.

 

 

 

Hallia.  Every statement is opportunistic.  Very little original thought and when she does make a statement it is completely illogical.

 

Dap classic scumtell is not being decisive.  Hedging his statements. 

 

Ishy's whole exchange with me early in the play was completely off.  He was being obstinate about the whole Csarmi thing..then wanted me lynched for bad play regardless on whether I am town or not even though "we can't afford bad play now."  Then backed off when I pointed out the hypocrisy of that statement.

 

Town reads on Despo and Nolder. 

 

 

 

honestly i dont want to waste a day on people going back and forth cuz of me, im town cop 

 

and is lily in the game?!!

 

id go with krak tbh, 

 

*facepalm*

 

Ffs man.. Why did you claim now without any kind of pressure?! Peace had the most votes on him and the only thing that you did with this move is most likely getting yourself killed tonight.

 

 

 

honestly i dont want to waste a day on people going back and forth cuz of me, im town cop

... I feel like I've heard this all before.  Investigation results?  Breadcrumbs?  Why now with zero pressure?  The usual...

 

 

Yeah it really made no sense for him to claim Cop then, but I will just trust Chuckles on this. I always get a scum read on Chuckles, and I don't want to risk lynching a Cop because of the way he plays.

 

 

I'm confused nolder, your saying that you'd rather lynch off an UN CC cop and have me reveal the 1 townie who will be the main focus of NK's come night, its as far as I can see a lose lose sitution for town

 

You need to get those results out there! It doesnt matter if the scum team is going to go after confirmed townies after you die, because it will be way worse if we waste our lynches on them! We can figure out a lot more with your info.

 

 

I prefer lynching serra

 

vote serra

 

And we still have time, if everyone moves trains (ill be here till the DL, ill check in as often as I can)

 

Umm.. no. Peace is the way to go.

 

 

 

Scum reads in order: 

 

Peace 

Despo

Hallia

Ishy

 

 

Tries to get lolguy to reveal his innocent reads...like lolguy wouldn't do that if it were more important than vanilla or protecting a PR.  Suddenly Peace jumps up to his #1 scum read?  After just agreeing with Yates' and Peace's arguments on why Peace would do what he did.  After BG references Tina from T2.

 

 

@Verb: I'll give you that, a BPV doesn't remove all their utility necessarily. But still a good chunk of it. Say the mafia end up targeting the BPV without realizing it, and get no kill. They could think it was the BPV, could think their target was being doc protected, or could think they had uncovered the Doc themselves. If they thought the latter, they could end up spending two NK's on essentially a glorified vanilla. Outing the BPV removes this possibility.

 

And yes, I do think it was a kind of scum slip. I think Serra thought he could slip that little suggestion in without catching huge flak for it. And you DON'T need to out the BPV to solidify the belief that there will be a Doc/Cop in the thread imo. Already seen two diff VK's die in diff games, and two diff vigs as well.

 

Cloud def reeks for his backing up that suggestion btw. Then says I'm scum without ever addressing my post against the idea.

 

And yeah, had a feeling Peace would flip scum. He did make a bad play however. And Yates, I do think BG is right- the wifom Chuckles may have been setting up would have been fine on its own. The wifom you introduced also seems like it could have been an attempt to gain town cred, and also weakens Chuckles wifom if that's what his play was.

 

 

[hazelkrs1]

lol Krak, making a meme especially for me.

 

@Serra: I think we've just about exhausted the BPV debate. What about the mass claim idea you hinted at in the same post?

[serra]

@Desp: that was little more than a short addendum so long as we haven't seen more flips, but if all 3 threads are indeed the same, depending on the complete list of PR's, it is possible we could at some point guarantee a town-win by mass-claiming in all threads, forcing scum to trade 1-for-1 on fakeclaims, or having scum all claim VT and directing PR's.

 

In general, open setups (with all roles known) are more town-sided than the same setups without knowledge of the potential roles, and open setups can sometimes be solved once about half the game has flipped.

[Verbal32]

Hey Krak, you've got....something.....on your nose.

 

 

Just....you know....brush it off....a little?

[hazelkrs1]

@Desp: that was little more than a short addendum so long as we haven't seen more flips, but if all 3 threads are indeed the same, depending on the complete list of PR's, it is possible we could at some point guarantee a town-win by mass-claiming in all threads, forcing scum to trade 1-for-1 on fakeclaims, or having scum all claim VT and directing PR's.

 

In general, open setups (with all roles known) are more town-sided than the same setups without knowledge of the potential roles, and open setups can sometimes be solved once about half the game has flipped.

 

There sure are a lot of if's in the scenario you're laying out. You say in general open setups favor town, but not always. Scum could have some roles that would work specifically against the scenario you are mentioning. Moreover outing everything to try and direct PR's could end up just giving mafia more room to manipulate town, while they in the meantime plan accordingly with the outed information and choose their NK's in the best manner.

 

No, myself, I think mafia starting off with the inherent advantage of having more info than townies is enough, they don't need any more added info with which to plan their NK's. Town starts off blind, but can use wifom clouds to at least hide their PR's while they try to find scum. What you're suggesting would be removing those safeguards and making the odds slightly better at finding scum, but by no means would it guarantee a town victory and would likely make it much harder to keep PR's alive. Not saying town NEEDS NA info and PR's to be able to win, but it sure helps, especially if the scum team(s) have significantly powerful roles themselves.

[Pralaya]

Long nights, winter is coming

[Darthe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQlHq_RIWts