Demandred's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[JediMindTrick]

Here is the one thing that bugs me about Demandred's arc.  Why were the Sharrans's fighting with the shadow?  I get that Demandred was posing as some godlike leader but wouldn't some of them have questioned the fact they were fighting with Trollocs and Myrdraal?     If Demandred had come roaring in with the Shaarans like the Seanchan to take over the lands then it would have made sense but to have them fight with the Trollocs and Myrdraal implies that they are all darkfriends which I don't buy unless Demandred and his cronies literally turned hundreds of thousands of them. 

[Torome]

I think becoming the leader of the Sharans is what made Demandred so obsessed with fighting Rand himself.  In the prologue Mog wonders why he changed, that previously he did not care who killed LTT as long as he died.  What I think is that for the first time he was loved by everyone.  He was not second to anyone in Shara; he was given the regard he always felt belonged to him.  Once he got it, the only thing left was to destroy the one who had ever made him feel inferior.  He knew that LTT was better than him at almost everything except leading battles.  That is part of why he accepts the duels 1v1, even though he does use the power to throw rocks, it is part of him, no less than his arms.  He has the love of the people, the love of the woman(remember he wanted Ilyena before she met LTT), and he worked on his swordsmanship like crazy even saying so in his PoV.  Sadly, almost is the story of Barid Bel... he almost won the Last Battle.

[Sabio]

 

Whisky, absolutely. But they were both better than Lan. Except, as I said, Lan has author immortality

 

Well, Rand survived a similar fate with Ishamael.

 

If anyone could have survived an devasting injury, it is Lan.

 

And as said in his PoV, if Lan did not come in exhausted and semi-injured the battle would have been different (no need to sheath the sword).

 

Lan, greatest blademaster ever.

Not sure if Lan is the grestest ever, he simply wanted Dem dead, he wasn't trying to win.  Who knows what would of happened had it been to see who was best, as Lan said himself he came to kill Dem.  Impaling yourself on the other guys sword is hardly a tatic one takes to see who is better.

[Sabio]

 

The calculating focussed genius suddenly turns into a raving maniac who doesn't have a clue what's happening in SG and is prepared to risk everything in swordfights ? Doesn't really compute.

He was never calculating he didnt care if the shadow won or loss all he wanted was his revenge on Lews Therin, he was proud and thought him the greatest sword fighter besides lews therin so he was confident he could win in all of them. How did you want him to lose? theres no possible way channelers could have defeated him when he has a circle of 72 and a saarngreal so you tell me a way that he would have lost that would have suited you that got him overpowered when he was holding that much power.

I think you are dead on.  Dem wanted to prove once and for all he was better then LTT.  The actual last battle I don't think he cared about at all by this point.  A chance he has been waiting for since the Age of Legends was finally at hand and he wanted LTT dead so all would know he was the better man.  He was clearly a little mad by then but rememer all the chosen were using the true power more and more so he could of been suffering some side effects of that also. 

[Mitchell Shick]

Just reread Dem's POV in WH. He runs because he's overpowered, doesn't read as cowardly to me. He also mentions he was a soldier, and fervently hopes that he gets to be the one that kills Rand. I don't think any of it points to him being OOC in aMoL, just more deranged.

[Suttree]

Mentions he was a soldier!? The quote has already been provided where he says a General shouldn't be expected to fight alongside soldiers.

[Cybertrolloc]

Granted I find lots of things problematic about OP use and portrayal post-say-PoD (it was powered down somewhere along the line). Even with that, probably a mistake to give Dem a sa'angreal and barely have it used (don't think it's hinted that it's the 2nd > Callandor specifically). You have a PoV, at least some internal about whether he should just end this farce now, no, he wanted LTT...or hey, I'll beat these clods with their own backwards ideas of war because I'm just that badass (and monomanic).

 

Preferably Dem do the same things without *angreal help, just circles and such.

 

My other dissatifactions can be fan-wanked away pretty easily (that's all Shara could field, etc) off the top of my head.

 

ETA: armchair general in me did a bit of c'mon, why give them a breather now, especially in the withdraw from Kandor.

[Mitchell Shick]

Mentions he was a soldier!? The quote has already been provided where he says a General shouldn't be expected to fight alongside soldiers.

 

Yes...

 

 

The web had been reversed, for caution's sake, but so had the first, and he had been a soldier.

 

The quote you are talking about is this. I'll just do the whole paragraph for context.

 

 

He tried to launch his own attack and crush them, but the old man flung web after web at him without pause, and it was all he could do to fend them off. Those that struck trees enveloped them in flame or blew the trunks apart in splinters. He was a general, a great general, but generals did not have to fight alongside the men they commanded! Snarling, he began to retreat amid the crackle of burning trees and the thunder of explosions. Away from the key. Sooner or later the old man had to tire, and then he could take care of killing al'Thor. If one of the others did not get there first. He hoped fervently they did not.

[Suttree]

@jake

 

?

 

What are you on about. Have you followed the thread. I provided that very quote pages ago. He clearly states he does not have to fight amongst the men he commands. In AMoL it has changed to the point that Mat uses it as a strategy against him.

 

AMoL

Right now, his battle plan revolved around keeping Demandred occupied, forcing the man to respond. If Demandred had to act as a general, he couldn't do as much damage channeling.

[WhiskyJack]

My take on Demandred:

He did say that a general doesn't participate in actual fight but he was bit unhinged at the end, wasn't he? So why was he out in the open? To pull Rand out, ofcourse. That is my understanding of why he didn't just kill everyone. He was making a show. I was more concerned about him suddenly acquiring a sa'angreal out of the blue. Gawyn jumped on him. He could have "spared" Galad but Galad had made certain claims . Lan was...unexpected? Demandred was consumed by besting and killing LTT. That did him.

[WhiskyJack]

Here is the one thing that bugs me about Demandred's arc.  Why were the Sharrans's fighting with the shadow?  I get that Demandred was posing as some godlike leader but wouldn't some of them have questioned the fact they were fighting with Trollocs and Myrdraal?     If Demandred had come roaring in with the Shaarans like the Seanchan to take over the lands then it would have made sense but to have them fight with the Trollocs and Myrdraal implies that they are all darkfriends which I don't buy unless Demandred and his cronies literally turned hundreds of thousands of them. 

 

 

He managed to convince them that Light will lose and under his leadership, Sharans will find ...mercy. 

[WhiskyJack]

 

[Ozzie_aiel]

Demandred and the Sharans were a shock, in hindsight it shouldn't have been. With everyones eyes on Randland, that best place for a power base is where no one is looking. Still, a few paragraphs of Demi's POV, giving names but not locations, would probably have made the whole Sharan thing easier to take.

 

He was never a calm, controlled general, In many ways he was like Mat, daring and willing to gamble. So his being a "Giant laser shooting robot" makes more sense; he inspired his own troops, demoralised the enemy and destroyed everything around him. As for his duels, yes, they were idiotic, I personally would've shredded them with the Power, but I'm sure he had his reasons for it.

 

How he conquered Shara so quietly can be easy to explain. All power.comes from the Ayyad; win them over and Shara is yours. Would like to hear how Demandred and Taim are connected

[WhiskyJack]

 As for his duels, yes, they were idiotic, I personally would've shredded them with the Power, but I'm sure he had his reasons for it.

 

 

Actually, he did try. On all of them. The copies were ..well copies. Enough one power and you could overwhelm them. And he had enough power. Since he didn't know they were imperfect, he didn't go all Sa'angreal.

[Duskfire]

What are you on about. Have you followed the thread. I provided that very quote pages ago. He clearly states he does not have to fight amongst the men he commands. In AMoL it has changed to the point that Mat uses it as a strategy against him.

 

 

To be fair, Mat has said the same thing on a number of occasions, yet has also on a few occasions waded in the deep of it.

 

 

I would have liked to know more details about Demandred and how he got to be with the Shara. It was a mistake to not show that until the last book; I know it was meant to be a surprise and a build up of anticipation, but it could easily have been shown in the epilogue perhaps of one of the later books. That way, we could have had a pov from Demandred explaining how he got where he got, and a few other details about the culture. Heck, a random Sharan POV would have worked to.

 

But, I think for the first time, we saw the might of a Forsaken. They had always been talked about, but Demandred really commanded that battle forward. He was constantly talked about, constantly heard, constantly killing people, etc etc. It may not have been subtle, alot of people may not have liked it, but how many characters attempted to get at him. He was a real presence on the field, and the biggest threat.

[Entreri]

 

 

Whisky, absolutely. But they were both better than Lan. Except, as I said, Lan has author immortality

 

Well, Rand survived a similar fate with Ishamael.

 

If anyone could have survived an devasting injury, it is Lan.

 

And as said in his PoV, if Lan did not come in exhausted and semi-injured the battle would have been different (no need to sheath the sword).

 

Lan, greatest blademaster ever.

Not sure if Lan is the grestest ever, he simply wanted Dem dead, he wasn't trying to win.  Who knows what would of happened had it been to see who was best, as Lan said himself he came to kill Dem.  Impaling yourself on the other guys sword is hardly a tatic one takes to see who is better.

Nope, he is the greatest blademaster ever. 

 

As stated by Demandred, nobody in this Age could be that good. Demandred(#2) has be practicising the blade to beat LTT (#1).   How great is Lan? Demandred thought he had to be LTT.

 

Lan had to sheath the sword because he was exhausted from 24 hours of fighting and still had semi-healed injuries. Anybody who has actually done battle can attest to the impact that has on performance. 

[Entreri]

My take on Demandred:

He did say that a general doesn't participate in actual fight but he was bit unhinged at the end, wasn't he? So why was he out in the open? To pull Rand out, ofcourse. That is my understanding of why he didn't just kill everyone. He was making a show. I was more concerned about him suddenly acquiring a sa'angreal out of the blue. Gawyn jumped on him. He could have "spared" Galad but Galad had made certain claims . Lan was...unexpected? Demandred was consumed by besting and killing LTT. That did him.

 

Definitely he was consumed by jealously and envy of #1 and that saved the Light siders.

 

He also expected LTT to set some kind of trap for him if he came down...

 

If not for LTT, Demandred would have wasted the Light siders with the sa'angreal, went to SG and destroyed the vulnerable Rand. He was the only Forsaken in the series that was a wrecking machine. Even Shai'tan was pathetic.

[Rufae]

It is mentioned in AMOL that the Sharan leaders' eyes were glossy/hazy. This could indicate Compulsion or 13x13. Might explain why they fought next to trollocs with ok'ness.

[Tollingtoy]

At the very least, someone like Noal should have talked a bit more about Shara, maybe about their prophecies regarding Bao the Wyyld. If we had that information, it would not have been obvious that Demandred was there, but it wouldn't have seemed like a total cop out when they showed up at the battle. Again, how much time was wasted with Elayne conquering Caemyln or taking a bath or drinking goat's milk when we could have seen this and it would have been more powerful when they actually showed up instead of a "What the......." moment like most of us had

[Duskfire]

I am not sure why people are surprised he was in Shara. Sure, there was scant information about it, but a friend of mine who doesnt post on any forums assumed he was there. There were only three places he could have been and Murandy made little sense other then the fact that we knew little about its current ruler other then snippets here and there from other characters. I certainly wasnt surprised, and if anything was like, "shit yeah!"

 

But yes, they should have had more information throughout the series. Especially if someone hadnt read the Guide; they would barely know a thing then.

[John Everyman]

Apologies if this has been discussed, though I'm in a rush and can't read the entire thread at the moment. 

 

I personally really enjoyed Demandred becoming the "final boss" so to speak, besides the Dark One itself.  In a way, he was the one to really hammer home the fact that all bets are off, people can die when he killed Gawyn. 

 

That said, was anyone sort of hoping that Mat would be the one to kill him?  Dunno, I felt that was being foreshadowed, what with the rumors in TOM of Mat "single handedly slaying a Forsaken", and Demandred moaning about how Cauthon must be Lews Therin.

 

That said, Lan's defeat of him was very satisfying, and I'll take it.  Still, anyone else sad that Mat is the only ta'veren to not personally kill a Forsaken?

[Duskfire]

There was speculation about Lanfear referring to a third sa`angreal as powerful as Callandor and the Choedean Kal. Is it possible its what Demandred was wielding?

[Amandera]

Yeah, Sakarnen is most likely the second strongest sa'angreal for men.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah pretty much. It is strongly implied that it is stronger than Callandor. 

[Jon Paul]

I did not find Demandred to be entirely "off". The man once captured two cities-cities of the Age of Legends mind you!-and fed every inhabitant, man, woman and child, to the trollocs. Because he felt they had slighted him... Can you think of the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, that died? Because some guy probably bumped into him in the street and didn't say sorry?

 

Demandred has always been a stark-mad lunatic.

 

And his personally wanting to crush Lews Therin isn't new. He was always out on the field in the first War and rarely governed because he wanted to beat Lews Therin. Every single thing about Demandred is set to destroy the Dragon. It doesn't matter how crazy it seems. Hell Demandred probably realised how screwed up he was. But he was screwed up. Envy had destroyed him.

 

Regarding his sword-fighting abilities... Why is their surprise?

 

Elan was a philosopher and theologian of the Age of Legends and even he knew his way around a sword. Is it really any surprise that DEMANDRED wouldn't? Elan likely used the sword as a form of exercise. It was a sport in those days. But when they turned that sport to its original ends... Really, you think Demandred would have just sat by? When Lews Therin took it up?