[Non Spoilers]Game of Thrones Season Three

[SinisterDeath]

you knwo what, you lot keep forgetting to mention that Jamies hands we're bound the entire time, which effected him more than his captivity imo.

I'd lump having bound hands in with generally being held captive. They tend to go.. Hand in hand. /pun intended.

 

AS to the whole cerise thing? Perhaps they want to make people feel sympathetic towards her, till we get to the point in the story line, where we really want to love to hate her.

Then another double dip into the sympathy angle...

 

As for the storyline stuff.

 

They are going at it Chronologically. If they went strictly by the books, we would literally have something like season 3 = year 2, season 4 = year 1, season 5 = year 1.5.... Season 6 = year 2...

 

That's why I brought up, that they are very easily going to run out of content in at least another 2 seasons.

Unless they plan to clear it with G.R.R to make up content (to fill in gaps that don't exist in the books, that those books won't cover.)

[SinisterDeath]

Eh I have to disagree. I don't think the audience is meant to sympathize with her. Pity maybe. But then I think book Cersai is also a character to pity.

Pity, Sympathy, pretty much the same thing.

 

Though, even in the books, this moment in time is meant to show less sympathy, and more of her looking power, that you mentioned, But in the show, its coming off more towards the sympathetic angle. (Though, why we want to sympathize with her for losing power? Dunno, but that's what her character is attempting to do with Tyrion...

[Red2111]

i disagree about lumping in his hands being bound while fighting with the captivity situation.  the captivity was on going and long term, alot of the effects where done away with by the journey with Berny (as you stated).  having his hands bound while trying to fight though, that directly impacts his ability to fight; especally his endurance, speed, agility, reach and balance.

 

to equate those or lump them together woudl be like having a person whose been sitting until they're legs go dead numb (like beyond the pins and needles stage); and somone with their legs tied together run a race.  the person with the numb legs will win becuase the numbness would wear off after a few seconds/minutes.

 

also, yer puns have not gone missed.  i see what you did thar in your previous posts 

 

 

@ Nol: thats my point.  you say shes a character to pity, and as SD pointed out sympathy = pity.   to me, she is not a character to pity.  infact, pity, sympathy and empathy aren't even in the array of emotions i feel towards her.  everything that will and has happened to her in her life is by her own doing and she diserves every bit of it so far as i'm concerned.

 

to pity Cersie woudl be like piting Lucious Malfoy in the HP series.   i'm sorry, but the bitch is reaping what she sewed and tbh her just desserts are imo not even equal to what she really diserves.   there are a few characters in this series we're not meant to sympathize with or pity.  Joffery is one, the Mountain is another.  Cersie is among these characters.  HBO is doing the show and her character an injustice by continuing to make her into a sympathetic character.

 

 

o.0  you mean you guys weren't already loving to hate her by this point in the series?  the Cersie hate wagon started in book 1 for me, and with book 4 i utterly detested the character.  the back story with Jamie just put the icing on the cake for me tbh.

 

heres my main beef, do not read the spoiler if you haven't read the series

 

 

at this point the hate wagon for Cersie and Joff is pretty much tied.  we dislike both characters but for seperate reasons.  so since HBO has failed to build Cersie as an unlikable villiness and instead has gone the "oh poor woman" route.  how the hell can they do a legit 100% turn around to make her the most unlikable character in Kings Landing after Joff kicks the bucket (seriously cannot wait to see that little SOB choke)

 

 

what imprisoning the imp and falsely accusing him of Joffs murder?  going the way of the Mad King and burning down the Hand's Tower?  *snorts*  thats weak sauce considering what she has been doing up to that point!

 

so when you have the likes of the Red Lady, the Mountain, the Goat, the croonies on the Wall, Walder Frey and a slew of other no good rotten characters; how the hell are you going to build her up to the well diserved status she has with book readers and how in the name of everything will you justify the walk of shame she does in DwD?

 

[SinisterDeath]

I think in the books, it was mostly because at that point, she was just an annoying side-character. We knew she was involved with her husband's death, or at least, relished. She gave us nothing to like about her in the least. But, its really at this point in the book, that she basically starts whining that things aren't going for her, and her schemes just start failing, and that, I think gives us the love to hate her bit. We love to see as she starts digging her own grave deeper, and not even realizing it...

 

But its also been ages since I've read the books. (I never do a refresher between releases!)

 

 disagree about lumping in his hands being bound while fighting with the captivity situation.  the captivity was on going and long term, alot of the effects where done away with by the journey with Berny (as you stated).  having his hands bound while trying to fight though, that directly impacts his ability to fight; especally his endurance, speed, agility, reach and balance.

Ah, I was mostly referring to the hands being bound, as messing with hand-strength, and not during the actual fight, Kinda forgot that they were actually bound during it! That'll definitely affect dexterity, and strength to a bit.

 

As for Breinne(sp) though, is she actually slow or just slower compared to Jaime but generally faster than most other men?

She's a big gal and all but I suspect she couldn't have gotten to where she's at today, if she wasn't a good swordswoman.

 

That one novel I pointed out to you a few weeks ago, make a fairly large plot point about women fighters, having to deal with speed, over strength, in that men would have the natural upper-body strength advantage over women, and in order for them to have a chance, is to focus on speed & precision over brute-force.

 

Course, That doesn't mean men like Jaime, and other Sword-Masters wouldn't do the same thing, but it would mean she's focusing on a set of core skills, closer to a master's, than someone who's trained for years, but never really focused at it. (like probably most knights that didn't expect to actually get any real fighting in?)

 

Hmm..

I wonder what a Brienne & the Mountains Offspring would look like.... Combined with Little Fingers Brains...

[Agitel]

I think a closer look at book Cersei and all she's dealt with can cause a reader to find sympathy for her. She was sold to a drunkard who'd never love her and was abusive to her and has railed against the gender stereotypes placed on her. In a way, she parallels Dany and contrasts with Catelyn (who has essentially accepted her role, with some resentment over some issues). 

 

With that said, the show is obviously making a greater effort to make her more sympathetic/pitiable, attributing what was some of her cruelty in the books to Joff instead. I don't think you have anything to worry about though, Red. I think her show arc will eventually take her to where you think she should be. They might have been afraid to just start her character there without sufficient progression and explanation.

 

As for Bran and Rickon's arc...

 

 

I think they're doing what's appropriate for the show. Keep them together until the Wall.

 

 

Anyway, I don't want to complain about every change. They've done a solid job of streamlining the adaptation for the show without breaking from the main character arcs and plot points. Oh, there are a couple of choices that fell flat with me, but they've been very faithful.

 

Oh, and they haven't necessarily sped up Theon's arc, Red. They needed material for him, and they've got Theon's flashbacks from Dance to go off of. Of course he doesn't have

his name yet.

He's only just been captured!

 

BTW, I hate the way spoiler tags work on these boards.

[michellem]

I don't know about Cersei; most I know who's never read the books detest her. For those who hasn't read the books, the "just a woman trying her best with what she has" works like the worlds thinnest weil; they see right through it and see the underlying bitch. Only those who've read the books feels like she's playing the pity card. So I thnk HBO has been quite clever; they ahcieve the same goal, just in a different way.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

So far so good but I still cringe when there is something that doesn't match the books. I just feel the books are so brilliant that I don't understand why they need to add things for TV audiences

 

Edit: Ok I kind of get some of the changes. I guess part of it is I sometimes can't remember if it happened in the book or not which frustrates me. Or when things happen that I feel didn't really need to happen, like the dragons getting stolen.

[michellem]

The dragons got stolen in the books too, didn't they? It was something that needed to happen to make Dany understand she can't really trust anyone.

[Tsukibana]

see, here's the thing about writing a book: you have to pick just ONE of the ideas that you believe are absolutely brilliant, and all equally good.

when a writer gets a chance to tell his story AGAIN, and that people will still enjoy it, why should he NOT go with a "this is how it almost was" mentality?

I used to be SOOOO pissed about Legend of the Seeker, until I figured this out. So long as the author is happy, rather than picking the story apart

for not matching the book, I now choose to be glad I get to see a few of the "what ifs" that ran through his mind.

[Red2111]

@ SD.  you sorta make my point for me though with Berny.  she lacks agility, and relys on consentration and sheer strength to win her battles, not to mention her opponents misjudge her as being weaker than them to begin with becuase she's a woman (which works to her advantage to get an early lead and wear them down quicker).  Jamie OTOH, has both strength and agility when it comes to the sword; so Berny's main weapon (her strength) is negated by Jamies own strength.  

 

and one differene about Jamie is, he may be cocky but i doubt he disreguards any opponent becuase of their gender.  after all, he does have Cersie for a sister and knows exactly what can happen when one dismisses or underestimates an opponent based on perception.  like i said, his cockiness in fighting is more of a tactic rather than him being carefree and boastful; he uses it to lul his oppenet into thinking he's being carefree and to but them off balance.

 

 

honeslty, as far as fighting styles go, Berny is like the Mountain.  she relys on brute strength, intimidating an oppenent and wearing them down quickly to win a fight.  and as we saw, in a long drawn out battle agaisnt someoen equally as strong but more agile, the Mountain will lose.  Berny never stood a chance against Jamie, maybe later in the his arc but no now and not in his prime.

 

 

re-Dannys Dragons

 

RTE, that happened in the books, not the same way but they were stolen.  and it needed to happen.  it was a major character developement point for Danny.  1st, it taught her to keep a better eye on her dragons and realize exactly how valuable they were.  they they were no longer "children" but tools to be used for a bigger end.  2nd, like Mish said, it was a point that forced her to stop being childish, niave and entiltled. up until that moment, she acted as if she woudl be handed the kingdom, that all she had to do was go back to Westeros and that was that.  she also trusted to much, that everyone who helped her, did so for her sake and not their own.  she also was relying on the reputation of her House to get her through rather than her own merits.

 

in a way, thsi is the one event that sets into motion Danny transforming from a sulky little niave brat (Sansa) into a strong independent woman that will pull people to her as a taveren does to take back her throne.  is her transoframtion complete, no not by any means.  but it is an important step to who she needs to be before she goes to Westeros.

 

 

re-rest -

 

dont get me wrong, i dont mind tweaks and expect them and i'm not knocking HBOs treatement of the series.  i still believe they have done the best adaptation of any series this century hands down.  they've treated the series with utmost respect and have kept it as true as possible while at the same time adding in backstory that we never got to read but is a wonderful addition and fits very well with the story as a whole.

 

my two main complaints with the series so far are character tweaks.  first with Khal and always with Cersie.  i've complained about Cersie since the 1st episode and dont believe i'll stop complaining to be truthful   but that doesn't ruin my enjoyment for the series adaptation in the least.  unless they pull an HBP like Warner Bros did with HP i'll be happy wiht the show, and i can't see GRRM letting them do that to his series tbh.

 

i'm very greatful for what HBO has done with this series, so much so i hope that they get their hands on WoT *nods* 

[Tsukibana]

Agree. GoT has proved that there IS a market for adult-centered fantasy. Even LoTR was a teen movie, IMO, and this proves you don't need elves,

wands, and wizard hats to sell. Sadly, though, I don't see HBO optioning WoT... not enough skin, LoL.

[SinisterDeath]

and as we saw, in a long drawn out battle agaisnt someoen equally as strong but more agile, the Mountain will lose

 

 

wait.. There was someone as strong as the mountain in the books, and faster?

 

As for Bernie, I dunno if she's focusing purely on brute strength or not. Isn't her sword longer than Jaime's? I know that affects agility with the blade a bit. (Mostly in follow through, harder to interrupt it, and change trajectory. But total speed can still be fairly fast) And the Long Sword is pretty good against armored opponents, and horse-back, and of course, helps against those pesky pikemen.

[Agitel]

A clarification on Dany's 2nd book arc. Her dragons weren't stolen, though there was an attempt at the climax of her arc for the book. Dany visited the House of the Undying because she could find no help from the Pureborn of Qarth, nor the many trade guilds, and Xaro promised to help her only if she married him. So she visited the Warlocks to ask for help. She took Drogon into the House of the Undying with her, and when she reached the Undying they tried to capture her and presumably Drogon (Dany's POV loses focus around this time, quite intentionally, and things become a little confusing), and then Drogon burns the Undying to a crisp. Her arc was probably the most changed from the books.

 

The general idea of the arc is the same. Dany went to Qarth a beggar, much like her brother Viserys had been, and when she left she never wanted to be a beggar again.

 

As for Brienne, she was taught by her Master-at-Arms to save her strength because men would try to beat her quickly so it wouldn't be said that a woman gave them any trouble. So her strategy is usually to endure until her opponent has tired himself out, and then to press.

 

And Jaime was severely weakened by captivity and his hands being bound. He also notes during that fight (in the book) that Brienne was actually stronger than him, and he notes that before his captivity he'd only put a few men up in that category, including the Hound, the Mountain, and the Greatjon, and maybe one other.

[Red2111]

i'm due for a re-read but i thought i recalled her dragons being stolen in the book as well.  i do recall Drogon flying in and resucing Danny and bruning the tower down.  cause Drogon is a beast like that 

 

 

agreed Suki - HBO wont touch the WoT because they can't input skin scenes into it liek they can with this series.  though not every great series has to have boobs every episode.  Dexter for instance survives on plot, characters and content; same with Breaking Bad and a few other drama's.  but none of those are on HBO and it seems a series on HBO must have nudity in every episode.

 

@ SD - the Hound kicked his ass pretty hard book 1 at the tourney.  no bones about it, just hoped in and laid the smack down on his brother.  he's just as strong as the Mountain when it comes to sword strength and more agile.

 

and i stand corrected, Berny relies on endurance and Strength to win a fight, not just Strength.  but still, a long sword is only good so long as an oppenent doesn't have the strength to deflect the blows and the agiliness to jump out of the way then jump in quick for a stab. 

[Agitel]

I have seen people non-ironically complaining about the lack of boobs in the previous episode and being horrified that the only bare chest was Joffrey's (Jack Gleeson). It's kind of disturbing that some people need that in every episode to stay interested...

[Tsukibana]

agreed. although if they start with the prequel, we could get some hot Moiraine/Suian action :P

[Nolder]

and i can't see GRRM letting them do that to his series tbh.

GRRM doesn't have a say where the show goes. His only job with it is that he gets to write an episode per season.

 

Agree. GoT has proved that there IS a market for adult-centered fantasy. Even LoTR was a teen movie, IMO, and this proves you don't need elves,

wands, and wizard hats to sell. Sadly, though, I don't see HBO optioning WoT... not enough skin, LoL.

Whuuuu????

The amount of arms being folded beneath breasts alone should satisfy any of HBO's need for skin.

Aside from that there are at least two or three nude scenes in WoT that I can recall with plenty of other suggestive ones that could be expanded on.

 

That said though I wouldn't want to watch a WoT tv series. Waaaay too long.

[Tsukibana]

Nude scenes?!?!? in EotW, the only nudity I recall involved Lan telling Mat to shut the hell up in Baerlon. and unless every woman starts wearing Domani fashion,

folding arms isnt gonna do a thing but put some wrinkles in good ol' Two Rivers woolens :P

[Nolder]

Nude scenes?!?!? in EotW, the only nudity I recall involved Lan telling Mat to shut the hell up in Baerlon. and unless every woman starts wearing Domani fashion,

folding arms isnt gonna do a thing but put some wrinkles in good ol' Two Rivers woolens :P

Wasn't there a scene in Shienar that involved shared baths?

 

Also this is just fanart granted but I wouldn't be surprised to see outfits like this from HBO: http://imgur.com/Y0HTBFr,B5ldEbY,DO91UIb

[SinisterDeath]

lol, whoever did that fan-arts watched way to much anime.

[Nolder]

http://imgur.com/a/tPkz2

[Songstress]

1) I've had, for no particular reason, The Rains of Castamere stuck in my head all day.

 

2) I'm really enjoying seeing Margaery's development as a political player. She's definitely much more interesting on the show than she was in the books.

 

3) Not too concerned with any of the deviations from the books at this point.  As long as that scene we all know is coming packs the emotional impact it should, I'll consider the season a success.

[Nolder]

The scene I'm looking forward to most is

 

 

Jaime's fight with the bear

 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

A clarification on Dany's 2nd book arc. Her dragons weren't stolen, though there was an attempt at the climax of her arc for the book. Dany visited the House of the Undying because she could find no help from the Pureborn of Qarth, nor the many trade guilds, and Xaro promised to help her only if she married him. So she visited the Warlocks to ask for help. She took Drogon into the House of the Undying with her, and when she reached the Undying they tried to capture her and presumably Drogon (Dany's POV loses focus around this time, quite intentionally, and things become a little confusing), and then Drogon burns the Undying to a crisp. Her arc was probably the most changed from the books.

 

The general idea of the arc is the same. Dany went to Qarth a beggar, much like her brother Viserys had been, and when she left she never wanted to be a beggar again.

 

 

Phew! Thought I was going crazy!

 

Edit: Have to agree with Tress on Margaery. I'd go as far as saying you see her cunning and wit in the show more as well. Makes her more attractive IMO.

I'm most looking forward to (and dreading) the Red wedding.

[Agitel]

http://imgur.com/a/tPkz2

When I first saw the Ned and Cat one two years ago I laughed. The Sam and Jon one was even better.