Who *are* you, Nakomi? (Full spoilers)

[Leopoled Boothe]

Considering what all of Jordan's other characters were based on I think the best way to find the answer would be to find some mythical figure that resembles Nakomi in some way.  I think RJ once said that the Aiel were based on the Irish, Native Americans and the Zulu so maybe she's based on something from one of these cultures.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Leopoled Boothe

[Suttree]

It was mentioned earlier in thread but I've seen it speculated that she came from the Nokomis myth in native american culture. Nokomis was associated with dream catchers which would of course make a connection to Tar.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Suttree

[GoldeneyesND]

I always thought she was a "wandering Jenn Aiel" like the myth of the Wandering Jew. That way she would have an interest in helping the Aiel. Sanderson had an interesting reaction when that question was posited to him http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/brandon-sandersons-wheel-of-time-answers-from-torchat. He promised RJ not to reveal who Nakomi is, but I believe it is listed in RJ's notes, which were donated to a school, but I can't remember which one.

[Suttree]

He promised RJ not to reveal who Nakomi is, but I believe it is listed in RJ's notes, which were donated to a school, but I can't remember which one.

1. Brandon and RJ never met and he was picked to finish the series after RJ's death.

 

2. The concept for Nakomi was based on something buried "deep in the notes", the character was a Brandon creation.

[GoldeneyesND]

 

He promised RJ not to reveal who Nakomi is, but I believe it is listed in RJ's notes, which were donated to a school, but I can't remember which one.

1. Brandon and RJ never met and he was picked to finish the series after RJ's death.

 

2. The concept for Nakomi was based on something buried "deep in the notes", the character was a Brandon creation.

 

You're right. I misspoke. RJ left instructions not to reveail Nakomi's true nature and Brandon promised his widow. There are several youtube videos of Sanderson doing readings of AMOL and he explicitly talks about this point.

[Suttree]

 RJ left instructions not to reveail Nakomi's true nature and Brandon promised his widow. There are several youtube videos of Sanderson doing readings of AMOL and he explicitly talks about this point.

 

Not true. Again, the concept for the character came from something "deep in the notes" and Brandon is not answering because:

 

Interview: Feb 8th, 2013

AMOL Signing Report - DJ Stipe (Paraphrased)

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

When asked who Nakomi was, Brandon said that it wasn't answered by Robert Jordan so it was important that he left it that way.

 

Edited November 21, 2013 by Suttree

[The Fisher King]

Im pretty sure Nakomi was the same chick that was in ''End of Time'' and helped out The Doctor so very much before he regenerated.

 

 

Fish

[Sabio]

I really don't see her being a forsaken, since why would a forsaken care or want to save the Aiel. 

[cgiam311]

Just another of the meriad unfinished plot threads and unanswered questions that we'll be debating forever regarding this series.  Oh well, if it wasn't the ending, at least we got an ending.

[Asgard Thorin]

We got very little in the way of hints about Nakomi in AMoL, but their location make this thread full-spoilers by necessity.

 

So, let's have it. Did anyone glean anything about Nakomi that we didn't know before AMoL?

 

PS

If you want another poll-option, let me know.

There should be another poll option. I think Nakomi is a time-traveler from the future, one of Rand's descendants who came to awaken Aviendha's mind before she went into the glass pillars. If she hadn't come, perhaps Aviendha would not have been troubled enough to go back into them and discover what a Couladin her granddaughter would be, if she (Aviendha) did not strive to change events. The poll doesn't cover that possibility.

[GoldeneyesND]

BTW Suttree, don't always be so sure you're the only one with google

  INTERVIEW: 2013

Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)

KEITH PISHNERY (13 JANUARY 2013)

Did RJ say that Nakomi should be included? You said she was "deep in RJ's notes" but wondering if it was up in the air?

BRANDON SANDERSON (13 JANUARY 2013)

I said something deep in the notes made me include her. I have not said if she herself was in the notes or not.

 

You can't assert RJ didn't write her because it's ambiguous.

 

My next theory-

 

"Earth-Mother, aka Nookomis - "Algonquin legend says that "beneath the clouds lives the Earth-Mother from whom is derived the Water of Life, who at her bosom feeds plants, animals and men" She is known as Nokomis, the Grandmother." aka mother nature.

[Suttree]

BTW Suttree, don't always be so sure you're the only one with google

  INTERVIEW: 2013

Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)

KEITH PISHNERY (13 JANUARY 2013)

Did RJ say that Nakomi should be included? You said she was "deep in RJ's notes" but wondering if it was up in the air?

BRANDON SANDERSON (13 JANUARY 2013)

I said something deep in the notes made me include her. I have not said if she herself was in the notes or not

 

Google? Why would you use that when we have...

 

http://www.theoryland.com/wheel-of-time-interview-search.php

 

Regardless numerous other answers make it clear that RJ didn't write her and the point stands concerning why she wasn't included.

[Guest theblackwind]

I think she is Mother Nature.  I also think that she is the other voice at the end of EOTW. 

[Asgard Thorin]

Just another of the meriad unfinished plot threads and unanswered questions that we'll be debating forever regarding this series.  Oh well, if it wasn't the ending, at least we got an ending.

Love that, Warderboy! How perfect!

[GERand26]

RJ may not have written "her" exactly as Nakomi appears, but it seems pretty clear, if you're using any deductive reasoning at all, that he included the concept in his notes, and that the concept "deep in the notes" involved an avatar of the Creator speaking to Avi and later to Rand. I think you're trying to shoot down this idea simply because you don't like it, because the evidence all points in one direction, and most fans can see it based on the poll results.

 

And even though you are relying on old quotes where RJ indicated the Creator would not play an active role, you STILL have not answered the question regarding the voice at the end of TEofW or at the entrance to Shayol Ghul in AMoL. So, I'm waiting to hear your theory. Let's have it.

Edited December 23, 2013 by GERand26

[Suttree]

BS explicitly stated RJ didn't have an answer for it. It's your assertion however that despite numerous statements to the contrary and no answer for it in the notes, that it's somehow clear that Nakomi is an avatar? That RJ would not have specified something that huge in relation to his cosmology?

 

I would like you to name even one issue where RJ has given that strong of an answer on a topic and then gone back on it the story? It has nothing to do with like or dislike of the theory. I'm less invested in who Nakomi is than I was with who killed Asmodean if that's possible(the whole thing had about the same importance to the plot as well.) It has to do with word of god. As for the voice, as other posters have already noted, we don't know what it was and there have always been multiple theories out there. Even if it was the creator to make the leap from that to an avatar being possible would be a logical fallacy. It wouldn't be your first, I see you going in for ad populum as well in your latest post.

 

Lastly let's clarify something about the poll question. An effect of the wheel and an avatar of the creator are two very different things.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Suttree

[Goaswerfraiejen]

In fairness, Nakomi doesn't really take an active role in anything.

[GERand26]

So there are many theories re: the voice at the end of TEotW and at Shaoyl Ghul in AMoL, but do you actually have any thoughts of your own on the subject? It wasn't hard to notice that you completely avoided answering the question posed, and I'm pretty sure because we both know that the answer is highly damaging to your critique of the prevailing theory that Nakomi is an avatar of the Creator. Brandon has repeatedly stated that Nakomi is, in fact, based upon something in RJ's notes. That, when combined with the Creator's speaking role in TEofW and AMoL, paints a pretty clear picture in my view, with far more to back to it up than any other theory that I have seen. I won't even get into the symmetry of the DO being the antithesis of the Creator and having an avatar in Shadar Haran (meaning it would bne consistent for the Creator to also have an avatar of some sort as well) althought that point is soundly in the theory's favor as well. So again, I will ask, what is your take?

 

And I struggle to even call your statements an actual "critique" since, instead of actually presenting a theory of your own and backing it up with evidence, you are simply attempting to point of supposed flaws at the margins of the theory. That's not effective debating, it's issue-spotting, and anyone can do it. So if you have a better theory and can back it up, I anxiously await it.

Edited December 25, 2013 by GERand26

[Suttree]

That, when combined with the Creator's speaking role in TEofW and AMoL,

Ahhh, so you have proof that was the Creator? Look forward to seeing the "evidence".

 

[Removed]

Edited December 28, 2013 by Barid Bel Medar
unnecessary

[GERand26]

The evidence only reasonably supports one conclusion, and that conclusion is highly relevant to this thread. Still waiting for something of substance from you on the topic. You seem to have no problem resurrecting your objections to well-supported theories that you simply don't like, but become oddly reticent when asked to restate or support your own view.

[Suttree]

Lol..."well supported".
 
You seem lost on both what has been discussed here at DM and oddly about the very nature of how debates work. As for Nakomi, I personally agree with Luckers:

 

She's nothing but a piece of intrigue placed in the books for the fans to be intrigued about. This is made clear by three things.

1. Her existence was not something RJ plotted for this book but based on something Brandon found 'deep in the notes'. Which leads us to two.

2. Brandon has disavowed using the notes--rather, when he needs something, he goes and asks Maria, who does the research.

3. She didn't really do anything. Or rather, she did nothing that wouldn't have occurred just as easily without her presence.
 
Brandon needed something (a mystery for the fans, perhaps--one maynote his likening of Nakomi's role to the fandom with Asmodean's), went to Maria who provided him with something he could use, and ultimately the entire thing had little to no plot relevance.

 
The onus is on people who believe it was an avatar to provide a "well reasoned" theory which has not even remotely been done. At the end of the day we have word of god and that is more than enough for me.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Suttree

[Sabio]

I am just surprised how many people think it was one of the forsaken.  Why would of one the forsaken even care about the aiel or what happens to the aiel in the future. I think Nakomi did add a little her planting the seed of worry that I don't think any of the aiel truly wanted to think about.  Many assumed, like Rand did, that after the last battle the Aiel would return and go about their business like they always had.   Nakomi planting the worry in Avi plus seeing the visions of the destruction of the Aiel helped convince her that the aiel just staying the same wasn't possible.  Maybe the visns in Rhuidean would of been enough, but I think both helped Avi come to the decision that the aiel needed a purpose.  Since the dead were walking again my first guess was she was a dead jenn that was able to walk the world again because of the barriers weakening.  It the whole Avi coming back and all Nakomi's stuff being gone that made me think she was a spirit.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

Could someone clarify something about Nakomi for me? As I understand it the old Aiel outside of Shayol Ghul in the Epilogue was written by RJ, but BS thought that would be too weird to introduce a mysterious character in the end, so he wrote the character Nakomi and inserted her in the other novels. Have I understood that correct, or did BS write the Aiel lady in the epilogue also?

[Cybertrolloc]

The epilogue isn't entirely RJ, and BS quotes about Nakomi imply she's his invention (in this thread) as opposed to something RJ wrote into the end then BS used in ToM.

[Finnssss22]

The epilogue isn't entirely RJ, and BS quotes about Nakomi imply she's his invention (in this thread) as opposed to something RJ wrote into the end then BS used in ToM.

 

Not his invention, she is his interpretation of something RJ buried deep in the notes.

There is a difference.