Egwene's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Aulduron]

 

I was just thinking about it, and for their to be any chance at war not breaking out almost immediately after The Last Battle, Egwene had to die. Remember this conversation?

 

 

"I will break you myself," Fortuona said softly. "Someday, your people will turn you over to me. You will forget yourself, and your arrogance will lead you to our borders. I will be waiting."

 

"I plan to live centuries," Egwene hissed. "I will watch your empire crumble, Fortuona. I will watch it with joy."

 

There's no way Egwene would wait long enough for Seanchan society to change peacefully, after her experiences she would have attacked them as soon as possible, probably leading to a future similar to the one Avi witnesses in her visions at Rhuidean the second time.

Hadn't they just agreed that any woman who didn't want to be collared didn't have to be collared?

Edited January 15, 2013 by Aulduron

[Iroquois Pliskin]

 Ok, I just came up with a theory and I'll drop it here because ultimately it's about Egwene. I'm not saying it's right, and it's cobbled together and might be a stretch but tell me what you think.

We know Avi was going to the glass columns and we also know that they aren't regular Ter'angreal. She flat out says that they feel alive and her talent is reading ter'angreal.One point I should make here, is the breaking rearranged the landscape. We can assume it does this every breaking. So, where else in the series have we seen a tall glass column? When Egwayne uses the "Flame of Tar'valon". So if a balefire blast burns you out of the pattern forever, would a "Tar'valon" blast burn you into the pattern forever at the point you were hit with it? 

Who do we know that is near sister with Avi? Who has a vested interest in her adopted people's future success? Who would want to make sure that Rand was ok after his last struggle with the DO and say goodbye and admit that she was wrong. Egwene. We know Nakomi can't channel because Avi can't sense her ability to channel. Maybe this is because she burned herself out. So maybe now she's able to appear where she wants in the pattern or maybe she's tied to the glass columns, which all inevitably get shipped to Rhuidean.  And she ends up trying to help the Aiel, because they are like her second people. 

[mbuehner]

 

 

I was just thinking about it, and for their to be any chance at war not breaking out almost immediately after The Last Battle, Egwene had to die. Remember this conversation?

 

 

"I will break you myself," Fortuona said softly. "Someday, your people will turn you over to me. You will forget yourself, and your arrogance will lead you to our borders. I will be waiting."

 

"I plan to live centuries," Egwene hissed. "I will watch your empire crumble, Fortuona. I will watch it with joy."

 

There's no way Egwene would wait long enough for Seanchan society to change peacefully, after her experiences she would have attacked them as soon as possible, probably leading to a future similar to the one Avi witnesses in her visions at Rhuidean the second time.

Hadn't they just agreed that any woman who didn't want to be collared didn't have to be collared?

No, they agreed that any woman who wished to be collared could be collared, and perhaps that any damane the seanchan could torture into Theon Greyjoyesque submission might be asked be her captors if she wants to go free. 

[Kudlak]

Meh, I've always LOVED Egwene for some reason and she really grew in TgS and ToM. This book was just disappointing. Her death was -ok- She wiped out every sharan channeler, but Gawyns death was horrid. All in all I'm left disappointed.

Agree too :-) As I wrote before. In the end Iam able to accept Gawyn and Egwen deaths but no how BS got there :-(

 

The one bit of Egwene's arc which I really liked was her little conversation with Rand just after she'd died.  It somehow seemed like the old Egwene, rather than the ice-cold, inhuman Amyrlin.  I was really glad to see this.

Yeah I agree one of top moments in book :-)

 

I thought this was a good ending for Egwene. I mean her warder did die. Everything we know about the Warder bond implies Egwene will have long-term effects from this. I get that it's Egwene and she's very strong-willed and all that, but this isn't your normal warder either. It's her husband/soul-mate. She'd be devastated. I guess what I'm saying is: everyone likes to remember Muhammed Ali as the champ, standing over a KO-d Sunny Liston with his fist in the air. No one like to think of Ali as a 60-year old with shaking hands, a trembling lip, and quivering head; body broken from the hardships his life has seen. And frankly, Egwene deserves to go out as a champ. If she's going to die, there couldn't have been a better way to go.

And when Sanderson wrote that part, a paragraph that describes what she was doing and then just one line: "The Flame of Tar Valon", I stood up and yelled. It was awesome!

Yeah her last battle was great :-)

[Hack n Slash]

 GAWYN WAS ALREADY DYING, HE HAD USED THE BLOODKNIVE RINGS TO SAVE THEM WHEN OVERRUN BY THE SHARANS. His death was already assured, he was just trying to do what he could with the little time he had left.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Barid Bel Medar
insults

[Kudlak]

 GAWYN WAS ALREADY DYING, HE HAD USED THE BLOODKNIVE RINGS TO SAVE THEM WHEN OVERRUN BY THE SHARANS. His death was already assured, he was just trying to do what he could with the little time he had left.

That's not true. He didn't know what these rings can cause

[Hack n Slash]

 

 GAWYN WAS ALREADY DYING, HE HAD USED THE BLOODKNIVE RINGS TO SAVE THEM WHEN OVERRUN BY THE SHARANS. His death was already assured, he was just trying to do what he could with the little time he had left.

That's not true. He didn't know what these rings can cause

Wrong, Leilwin told him that the rings kill their users with just one, and he was using 3 at once.

[Kudlak]

 

 

 GAWYN WAS ALREADY DYING, HE HAD USED THE BLOODKNIVE RINGS TO SAVE THEM WHEN OVERRUN BY THE SHARANS. His death was already assured, he was just trying to do what he could with the little time he had left.

That's not true. He didn't know what these rings can cause

Wrong, Leilwin told him that the rings kill their users with just one, and he was using 3 at once.

I dont think so. I think she never tell him ...will look in book

 

damn you are half right sorry :-) “The rings are dangerous,” Leilwin said. “I do not know much of them, but they are said to kill those who use them. Do not let your blood touch the ring, or you will activate it, and that could be deadly, Warder.”

Edited January 15, 2013 by Kudlak

[deepak_dragonreborn]

One question.. Did RJ leave notes saying that Egwene was going to die or was it Brandon who decided it? Or was it the character Brandon said Harriet told him to kill???

[Kudlak]

One question.. Did RJ leave notes saying that Egwene was going to die or was it Brandon who decided it? Or was it the character Brandon said Harriet told him to kill???

From conversation with Tereza there on forum, I think it was RJ decision (I asked similar question. If Egwen know about her possible death)

 

Terez

Terez

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Posted Yesterday, 03:55 PM

Brandon has said that in RJ's last days, Maria interviewed him extensively about the characters and how they end up, with special attention on the more important characters. Peter said that these notes were not contradicted. In some cases that leaves room for interpretation, but IMO not in this one. But at the same time, no one has yet come forth to reassure us with a straight answer.

 

I do think it was probably planned by RJ, for several reasons, some of which have to do with his little ex-girlfriend revenge fantasy which was evident even before Egwene died, and more mundanely a need for important character deaths for conflict, but mostly I think it was planned because of her Arthurian parallels.

[deepak_dragonreborn]

Makes sense... I somehow believe that RJ also wanted Cadsuane to die... Brandon said he included only 1 POV in the epilogue and that was Cadsuane.. Brandon maybe just wanted to challenge the fans by saying "yeah i know you all thought she was going to die but she isnt.. so Boo-yah!"

[Kudlak]

Makes sense... I somehow believe that RJ also wanted Cadsuane to die... Brandon said he included only 1 POV in the epilogue and that was Cadsuane.. Brandon maybe just wanted to challenge the fans by saying "yeah i know you all thought she was going to die but she isnt.. so Boo-yah!"

:-) but still I am pretty angry how BS describe Gawyn as selfish brat in final book :-(

[papertiger]

I'm still miffed that Gawyn didn't share the wealth with Leilwin and Galad. Selfish until the end.

 

3 rings, 3 assassins

 

I know RJ was saving Demandred for Lan, but come on!

[Kudlak]

Hmm after while I think I found another hole in Egwen action . I mean situation with Siuan and Gareth ??

[flinn]

 

Makes sense... I somehow believe that RJ also wanted Cadsuane to die... Brandon said he included only 1 POV in the epilogue and that was Cadsuane.. Brandon maybe just wanted to challenge the fans by saying "yeah i know you all thought she was going to die but she isnt.. so Boo-yah!"

:-) but still I am pretty angry how BS describe Gawyn as selfish brat in final book :-(

 The final book? Gawyn has been a selfish brat for many many books now. I was glad to see him go down.

I wasnt just mad that Egwene went down. If the annoying, pain in the butt, Elayne had gone down as well, it would have been perfect. Battlefield labor/delivery followed by beheading.

[Kudlak]

 

 

Makes sense... I somehow believe that RJ also wanted Cadsuane to die... Brandon said he included only 1 POV in the epilogue and that was Cadsuane.. Brandon maybe just wanted to challenge the fans by saying "yeah i know you all thought she was going to die but she isnt.. so Boo-yah!"

:-) but still I am pretty angry how BS describe Gawyn as selfish brat in final book :-(

 The final book? Gawyn has been a selfish brat for many many books now. I was glad to see him go down.

I wasnt just mad that Egwene went down. If the annoying, pain in the butt, Elayne had gone down as well, it would have been perfect. Battlefield labor/delivery followed by beheading.

What a hate :-D

[Kudlak]

 

sorry double post :/

Edited January 15, 2013 by Kudlak

[Suttree]

 

 

 

 

 

GAWYN WAS ALREADY DYING, HE HAD USED THE BLOODKNIVE RINGS TO SAVE THEM WHEN OVERRUN BY THE SHARANS. His death was already assured, he was just trying to do what he could with the little time he had left.

That's not true. He didn't know what these rings can cause

Wrong, Leilwin told him that the rings kill their users with just one, and he was using 3 at once.

I dont think so. I think she never tell him ...will look in book

 

damn you are half right sorry :-) “The rings are dangerous,” Leilwin said. “I do not know much of them, but they are said to kill those who use them. Do not let your blood touch the ring, or you will activate it, and that could be deadly, Warder.”

Which of course is far different than her telling him the rings kill their user for sure.

[David Selig]

Gawyn was already told that those rings kill those who use them in ToM.

 

“Bloodknives do not live long,” Kaisea said. “Once they are given a duty, they do not rest from it. They are granted abilities from the Empress, may she live forever, ter’angreal rings that make them into great warriors.”

 

“Those blur their forms,” Gawyn said. “When they are near shadow.”

 

“Yes,” Kaisea said, sounding surprised that he knew this. “They cannot be defeated. But eventually, their own blood will kill them.”

 

“Their own blood?”

 

“They are poisoned by their service. Once they are given a charge, they often will not last more than a few weeks. At most, they survive a month.”

[flinn]

I agree, Gawyn knew he was dead the moment he put the ring on his finger. 

[Kudlak]

 

 

 

 

 

GAWYN WAS ALREADY DYING, HE HAD USED THE BLOODKNIVE RINGS TO SAVE THEM WHEN OVERRUN BY THE SHARANS. His death was already assured, he was just trying to do what he could with the little time he had left.

That's not true. He didn't know what these rings can cause

Wrong, Leilwin told him that the rings kill their users with just one, and he was using 3 at once.

I dont think so. I think she never tell him ...will look in book

 

damn you are half right sorry :-) “The rings are dangerous,” Leilwin said. “I do not know much of them, but they are said to kill those who use them. Do not let your blood touch the ring, or you will activate it, and that could be deadly, Warder.”

Which of course is far different than her telling him the rings kill their user for sure.

 

Uús dont know it is ironic answer or ... :-)

 

Gawyn was already told that those rings kill those who use them in ToM.

 

“Bloodknives do not live long,” Kaisea said. “Once they are given a duty, they do not rest from it. They are granted abilities from the Empress, may she live forever, ter’angreal rings that make them into great warriors.”

 

“Those blur their forms,” Gawyn said. “When they are near shadow.”

 

“Yes,” Kaisea said, sounding surprised that he knew this. “They cannot be defeated. But eventually, their own blood will kill them.”

 

“Their own blood?”

 

“They are poisoned by their service. Once they are given a charge, they often will not last more than a few weeks. At most, they survive a month.”

Ups didn't remember this :-( but still in aMoL we got better explanation how these rings can kill their users as i wrote before

 

I agree, Gawyn knew he was dead the moment he put the ring on his finger. 

I disagree sorry :-) I can't seriously remember anything about only putting these rings on can kill their users ???

 

Ok now Iam confused :/ There (http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Bloodknife) is state that ring must be activate with drop of blood and after activation they will kill user . But in the book I dont remembert anything about  activation ????

Edited January 15, 2013 by Kudlak

[mbuehner]

I agree, Gawyn knew he was dead the moment he put the ring on his finger. 

 

True, but he also knew he had days and probably weeks given how long the blood knives stalked the WT. If he dies after the LB, thats fine. If he dies at a critical moment during the LB, not so fine.

[Kudlak]

 

I agree, Gawyn knew he was dead the moment he put the ring on his finger. 

 

True, but he also knew he had days and probably weeks given how long the blood knives stalked the WT. If he dies after the LB, thats fine. If he dies at a critical moment during the LB, not so fine.

Well, then why didnt he  say something to Egwen. He was her warden,husban and as somebody say soulmate ?? Because I have feeling he used rings before. And when he went after Demandred that was second time  ??

[SkyRender]

Does anyone think there is a chance Egwene doesn't stay dead? The FOTV is the counter-balance to Balefire. When someone is balefired their soul/thread is burned away from the pattern and there is a time-reversal effect.  We don't really know the extent to how much FOTV mirrors balefire, but maybe it burns a good person's soul/thread into the pattern (in reference to her cheesy thought of it affecting a DF differently) and would put her soul/body back into the pattern in the future.  I know the idea isn't thought out perfectly, but why is she able to talk to Rand and why does it reference her soul leaving her body?  If Rand's soul can find a new home, why not Egwene's?

Also, if she does stay dead, I FEEL SO BAD FOR SIUANE.  I forget if she was talking to herself, Gareth, or Egwene, but there was a passage in the book on Siuane's thoughts on no longer being Amyrlin.  She said although she was slightly upset about no longer being Amyrlin she was thrilled that her legacy lived on through Egwene.  She may not have been entirely responsible for the woman that she became, but Siuane saw herself in Egwene and was proud she played a role in shaping what she thought would be the world's greatest Amyrlin to come.  Then not too much later on Siuane dies off-screen, followed by Egwene....  =*(****

[Agitel]

 

 

I agree, Gawyn knew he was dead the moment he put the ring on his finger. 

 

True, but he also knew he had days and probably weeks given how long the blood knives stalked the WT. If he dies after the LB, thats fine. If he dies at a critical moment during the LB, not so fine.

Well, then why didnt he  say something to Egwen. He was her warden,husban and as somebody say soulmate ?? Because I have feeling he used rings before. And when he went after Demandred that was second time  ??

 

She'd never have let him, and it would have caused her more distress to know that he had, distracting her, and causing conflict between them when there was no time.

 

I'm not saying he was right, but he had reasons.