Perrin's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Erdrick]

Luc/Slayer's prized ability to shift between the waking world and TAR (in the flesh) is something that baffled the Forsaken, so I highly doubt it's just something a strong enough dreamwalker can do. In fact, I don't even think this is an ability that your typical wolfbrother can learn. In AMoL (p.413) Lanfear admits "I'm honestly not certain another has had his skills before. The Dark One did . . . something to this Slayer when capturing his soul, or his souls." My theory about this ability that was once unique to Luc/Slayer: it requires two souls.

So, when did this become a possibility for Perrin? We need a "one did live, one did die, but both are" type situation. Reread Hopper's death scene in TOM. Perrin is severely wounded and growing dizzy as he is being repeatedly kicked by Slayer. A dying Hopper tells him to flee, and he responds: "I can't leave you!" Hopper replies: "And yet . . . I must leave you." Then: "No!"

Remember, these very clingy mind-to-mind sendings are occurring in TAR, and Perrin's will is incredibly powerful. What I think happened is that, as Hopper died, Perrin somehow (unwittingly) bound Hopper's soul to his own. So this exceedingly rare ability is not just something Perrin figured out in the last book of the series; the possibility of shifting between worlds only opened up for him at the end of the previous book.

Note: I am new to these on-line book discussions, and have not read many posts in this or other WoT forums, so I have no idea if this theory is already out there. If it is, please let me know, as it would be nice to know if others were led to the same conclusion..
 

[Julian Cook]

So if Perrin is just a great leader where in the books does it ever show him being a leader, really, all i read is oh my i cant accept who I am crap, not seen any leadership from him ever, oh we get told it, but we never see it

[XXX]

Perrin is the Kaladin of the WoT universe. No surprise Brandon wrote him the best.

[bigdoug1971]

I enjoyed Perrin's part of the story.  I thought it was awesome that he figured out how to step in and out of TAR like Slayer.  That was good.  Gaul going with him was cool too.  Killing Slayer, Lanfear, and the wolves as Heroes of the Horn were all great moments for me.

 

 

 

 

 

On a side note.......The "Broken Wolf" prophecy turned out to be Perrin's spirit guide.  (Hopper).  Of all the theories I read, all the thought I had on that particular prophecy, it shocked me that's what it turned out to be.  I thought it could be Rand or even Iturlade.  The thought that it was Hopper never occurred to me.  It makes sense now. 

 

 

 

 

 

This was a great book.  An emotional rollercoaster.  Thanks to everyone involved.

[Durinax]

So if Perrin is just a great leader where in the books does it ever show him being a leader, really, all i read is oh my i cant accept who I am crap, not seen any leadership from him ever, oh we get told it, but we never see it

part of perrins great ability as a leader, is knowing when to hand over the reigns to another. Perrin is a great logistic leader, and thus would likely make a great peace time leader. Do not underestimate the ability to hand over control of the battle to another, many wars have been lost because the 'leader' couldn't do that.

[Vambram]

 

So if Perrin is just a great leader where in the books does it ever show him being a leader, really, all i read is oh my i cant accept who I am crap, not seen any leadership from him ever, oh we get told it, but we never see it

part of perrins great ability as a leader, is knowing when to hand over the reigns to another. Perrin is a great logistic leader, and thus would likely make a great peace time leader. Do not underestimate the ability to hand over control of the battle to another, many wars have been lost because the 'leader' couldn't do that.

 

I recall several books where Perrin showed that he is a great leader. Books like TSR, TFOH, LOC, WH, and KOD, as well as TOM. But, perhaps Randless does not recall those Perrin scenes in those books. 

[Entreri]

Sanderson did Perrin better than Jordan.

Perrin was terrific.  The Hopper death was the most touching momment of the entire series.  As for Perrin's abilties in TAR, they are unrivalled, the new Lion of TAR. 

 

With his ability to teleport at will and take people by force to TAR = unstoppable Juggernaut.

 

Perrin was several levels above Grandael and that is before he let go like Superman.  Compare that to what Egwene had to go through to finish Messana. 

Then he finished Slayer like he a boss, went through the ter'angreal barrier like it was nothing (Lanfer complaining) and snapped a TAR insects neck/Lanfear. 

 

And the final tally for TAR rankings:

 

Perrin > Slayer > Lanfear/Moghdiein > Egwene

 

If Egwene had lived she might be close  to Slayer level, but alas, it was not to be. 

[Julian Cook]

 

 

So if Perrin is just a great leader where in the books does it ever show him being a leader, really, all i read is oh my i cant accept who I am crap, not seen any leadership from him ever, oh we get told it, but we never see it

part of perrins great ability as a leader, is knowing when to hand over the reigns to another. Perrin is a great logistic leader, and thus would likely make a great peace time leader. Do not underestimate the ability to hand over control of the battle to another, many wars have been lost because the 'leader' couldn't do that.

 

I recall several books where Perrin showed that he is a great leader. Books like TSR, TFOH, LOC, WH, and KOD, as well as TOM. But, perhaps Randless does not recall those Perrin scenes in those books. 

so where would that be?

[Vambram]

Just what I thought, perhaps you ought to do a re-read of those books? 

[Julian Cook]

Just what I thought, perhaps you ought to do a re-read of those books? 

I have read all of the at least 3 times, and they all say the same, perrin is a great leader, even as he has never shown leadership,  telling people to do what they should know what to do is not leadership 

[Vambram]

I suppose leading people and winning battles and forming large alliances are not excellent ways to show a person is a great leader, then?

 

 

What the heck do you want? a flippin' messiah type leader?

[Julian Cook]

I suppose leading people and winning battles and forming large alliances are not excellent ways to show a person is a great leader, then?

 

 

What the heck do you want? a flippin' messiah type leader?

 

Not some moody emo

[Torome]

First off, the only emo in the books is Moridin. Perrin has emotion, but is definitely not emo- does he resist leadership, yea, but so did Mat!  I like Mat, but if I were voting for one to lead a people, at the end of the series, I'd pick Perrin.

[Tharand]

Although I really do like Perrin as a character and the way BS wrote his chapter, it was way too much of his duels with Slayer. And this despite Perrin was sleeping for half the book. In comparison with the Demandred duels, they all added to the story while every new attempt at Slayer felt one too much. I mean, we have already seen Perrin doing this for the last ten books or so. I honestly believed they would do the duel in the first 2-300 pages. Then came the chapter "Wolfbrother" where the duel logically should had been and in the end he fought it really late. And how was Perrin necessary if Gaul and the wolves could endure during all his sleep?

 

A nicer solution would had been to let Perrin finish Slayer early on and then return north to lead the armies there after Rodel Ituralde resigned. I mean, his lightning hammer slaying some Fades and Trollocs at that very darkest moment would indeed had given him some more heroism. Wasn't he the unwilling leader of the common folk? Why then did he sleep away the whole last battle?

 

I really liked the Lanfear and Faile part of the story though. I also liked the character development with Master Luhhan explaining he must not be careful. Was that the final piece of the blacksmith puzzle Perrin has been talking for all along?

 

Still, why did Lanfear feel it necessary to choose Perrin to finish of Moiraine? Wouldn't it had made more sense to preserve Moghedien or Graendal for that purpose (and made sure they were actually saving there entrance until then) or some other random BA DF?

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

Although I really do like Perrin as a character and the way BS wrote his chapter, it was way too much of his duels with Slayer. And this despite Perrin was sleeping for half the book. In comparison with the Demandred duels, they all added to the story while every new attempt at Slayer felt one too much. I mean, we have already seen Perrin doing this for the last ten books or so. I honestly believed they would do the duel in the first 2-300 pages. Then came the chapter "Wolfbrother" where the duel logically should had been and in the end he fought it really late. And how was Perrin necessary if Gaul and the wolves could endure during all his sleep?

 

A nicer solution would had been to let Perrin finish Slayer early on and then return north to lead the armies there after Rodel Ituralde resigned. I mean, his lightning hammer slaying some Fades and Trollocs at that very darkest moment would indeed had given him some more heroism. Wasn't he the unwilling leader of the common folk? Why then did he sleep away the whole last battle?

 

I really liked the Lanfear and Faile part of the story though. I also liked the character development with Master Luhhan explaining he must not be careful. Was that the final piece of the blacksmith puzzle Perrin has been talking for all along?

 

Still, why did Lanfear feel it necessary to choose Perrin to finish of Moiraine? Wouldn't it had made more sense to preserve Moghedien or Graendal for that purpose (and made sure they were actually saving there entrance until then) or some other random BA DF?

 

I agree. It's actually my only BS complaint when it comes to Perrin. I think he helped rescue the character - a character I like very much. I wanted to see him get badass with his hammer in the waking world. And, I hated the fact that he was passed out for so much of the book.

[Kahsm]

Still, why did Lanfear feel it necessary to choose Perrin to finish of Moiraine? Wouldn't it had made more sense to preserve Moghedien or Graendal for that purpose (and made sure they were actually saving there entrance until then) or some other random BA DF?

Because Perrin was guarding it and wouldn't let them through? He basically walked her right up to them because of her grooming.

 

The real question is why she didn't just channel 2 weaves to kill them at the same time herself... arrogance? thought she had him I guess...

[Vambram]

Perrin was NOT passed out for much of the book. His time in TAR in this book was when he went there with Gaul in the Flesh so that he could be powerful enough in TAR in order to do what he could to help out the Light over at the Black Tower, and then to watch Rand's back in the Pit of Doom which enabled him to confront and eventually defeat Slayer. But, Perrin was not passed out for much of the book.

[Simplman28]

Where are all of these power wrought spearheads? I thought this skill that Perrin rediscovered was going to be hugely important to the battles but they weren't even mentioned but briefly in the beginning. Hello! Teams of the best Aiel with super weapons. Even Gaul didn't seem to have anything special.

 

Also, after failed kidnapping there is no way in hell he would have let her out of his sight again! We all read how Perrin acted through that whole episode. HE WAS POSSESSED!

[Kahsm]

Where are all of these power wrought spearheads? I thought this skill that Perrin rediscovered was going to be hugely important to the battles but they weren't even mentioned but briefly in the beginning. Hello! Teams of the best Aiel with super weapons. Even Gaul didn't seem to have anything special.

 

Also, after failed kidnapping there is no way in hell he would have let her out of his sight again! We all read how Perrin acted through that whole episode. HE WAS POSSESSED!

Well they're just hard metal. Which is kinda weird cause I'm sure swords need to be maintained way more than spears. So despite the logic of "we can make more spears than swords". Having more swords that never have to be sharpened is probably still better. Or at least Halberd blades for the trolloc fighters.

 

At least Perrin got his Hammer, so it never needs to be sharpened and won't rust... cause that's important.

[ZorValachan]

I think everything Perrin did in AMOL could have been easily combined with what he did in TOM. For 2 books he goes around in dreamland chasing Slayer. The whole point of Luc going to the blight was to become Slayer w/Isam and make Perrin strong enough in dreamland to break Lanfear's compulsion and kill her? He could have done everything to the point of killing lanfear in TOM, actually did some world fighting in AMOL and then get some wolf call to go to the dream and kill Lanfear in the end. I was very disappointed in him spending 2 books (and one of them the last battle) chasing his tail, as we spent multiple books before with him doing basically nothing.

[esvath]

Yeah, Slayer should die at the fighting in ToM. Then, Perrin should has great fight with Lanfear during aMoL, instead of snapping her neck in last couple of paragraphs.

 

Although, action-wise, I have to say that both Perrin's fight against Slayer were cool. Veeery cool.

[northstar0]

Hi all!  I'm new to Dragonmount, but I got started on rasfw-rj about 15 years ago.

 

The thing I've been wondering about the most with regard to Perrin is this:

 

Did he damage himself (spiritually or whatever you want to call it) by first entering T'A'R in the flesh via gateway, and then by manifesting the ability to do so whenever he wants?

 

All the Wise One's talk about "It is EVIL" can't be just random superstition, can it?  Almost all of the superstitions in WoT turn out to have a basis relevant to their world.  Were there other parties (not influenced by Wise Ones) who agreed it was evil?  It seems like there were, but I can't remember if they were actually independent or just repeating what they heard.  The other relevant point is that the only other entity that had this ability was something that the DO personally crafted into Slayer.  That would lend weight to the argument that the ability is associated with evil.

 

No mention was made of anything being wrong with Perrin, but it would improve the symmetry between Mat and Perrin if he were also damaged in some way.  Mat loses an eye, and Perrin gains superpowers?  It doesn't fit the theme IMO.  Everyone had to make sacrifices to win TG, but Perrin's biggest loss was Hopper.  That's something, but it doesn't really balance the scales.

 

Any thoughts on what exactly Perrin might have done to himself?

[Erdrick]

Hi all!  I'm new to Dragonmount, but I got started on rasfw-rj about 15 years ago.

 

The thing I've been wondering about the most with regard to Perrin is this:

 

Did he damage himself (spiritually or whatever you want to call it) by first entering T'A'R in the flesh via gateway, and then by manifesting the ability to do so whenever he wants?

 

All the Wise One's talk about "It is EVIL" can't be just random superstition, can it?  Almost all of the superstitions in WoT turn out to have a basis relevant to their world.  Were there other parties (not influenced by Wise Ones) who agreed it was evil?  It seems like there were, but I can't remember if they were actually independent or just repeating what they heard.  The other relevant point is that the only other entity that had this ability was something that the DO personally crafted into Slayer.  That would lend weight to the argument that the ability is associated with evil.

 

No mention was made of anything being wrong with Perrin, but it would improve the symmetry between Mat and Perrin if he were also damaged in some way.  Mat loses an eye, and Perrin gains superpowers?  It doesn't fit the theme IMO.  Everyone had to make sacrifices to win TG, but Perrin's biggest loss was Hopper.  That's something, but it doesn't really balance the scales.

 

Any thoughts on what exactly Perrin might have done to himself?

 

Did you see my post at the top of the previous page? Go back to Hopper's death scene in ToM. Hopper is weak and fading, Perrin is severely injured, growing dizzy, and being kicked repeatedly by Slayer, and this is in their mind-to-mind dialogue:

 

Hopper: Go Young Bull, Flee.

Perrin: I can't leave you!

Hopper: And yet . . . I must leave you.

Perrin: No!

 

And all this is going on in T'A'R. I am convinced this is where some kind of bond is formed between Perrin and Hopper's soul, opening up the possibility for Perrin to acquire his "superpowers." If the ability to shift between worlds does in fact require some type of bonding between more than one soul, I can see where the idea that it is "evil" comes from. In Perrin's case we had the infinitesimally small chance of having a wolfbrother (who is very powerful in T'A'R) and a dying wolf (also in T'A'R) to whom he is very attached, somehow unwittingly form a bond between their souls. How would ordinary folk (or channelers) achieve a similar feat? You would need to sacrifice someone and bind their soul to be used as a bridge between the worlds. That sounds like some pretty dark magic to me.

[sVieira151]

I found it funny, thinking about Perrin's arc afterwards. He struck me as a non-mentally disabled Lennie (Small) who doesn't get killed by his friend at the end. He was always a super strong guy who was always careful in case he broke something, and in the end he broke a pretty lady's neck with his own hands. 

[wRAR]

Did he damage himself (spiritually or whatever you want to call it) by first entering T'A'R in the flesh via gateway, and then by manifesting the ability to do so whenever he wants?

 

All the Wise One's talk about "It is EVIL" can't be just random superstition, can it?  Almost all of the superstitions in WoT turn out to have a basis relevant to their world.  Were there other parties (not influenced by Wise Ones) who agreed it was evil?  It seems like there were, but I can't remember if they were actually independent or just repeating what they heard.  The other relevant point is that the only other entity that had this ability was something that the DO personally crafted into Slayer.  That would lend weight to the argument that the ability is associated with evil.

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