Perrin's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Finnssss22]

 

 

 

 

was very disjointed having him out of the action for a good chunk of the book.

 

I'm glad he got Slayer...that was nice justice for Hopper.

 

The Lanfear bit....I gotta say I didn't get his interaction with her...didn't seem like a matchup/fight pairing that made sense.

 

 

Perrin really hit his stride in ToM. I agree that BS did a hell of a job with that character. Was hoping for the same sort of excellence in AMoL. Was disappointed

 

 

(PS. The 'not killing a woman' bit....seriously? Pretty sure that needed to be left out at this point....last battle, forsaken, evil...it's time to cap 'em whether they're women or men. Throughout the book a lot of original or young themes in the series seem to be coming back into the story...and it didn't make it better)

Brandon's def. more skilled at writing the soul searching, self-depreciating guy than he is at writing a reluctant swashbuckler type (Mat), cocky ass kicker (Logian), or dominant alpha male hero (Rand).

Not true. If you have read any of his books, especially Mistborn and Alloy of Law you would know that he writes damn fine swashbucklers, cock ass kickers, and alpha males. I thought Perrin and Matt improved under his pen. I know some liked the old Matt but I didn't until BS made him less self absorbed and more likeable.

It most certainly is true. Brandon himself admitted that he badly botched Mat and didn't understand the character. Mat was a rogue who was turned into the court jester. There was a ton of RJ in Mat, not so much for Brandon. That type of person is pretty foreign to him.

 

The only real problem I have with some of this on BS (not that I feel some of it is unwarranted, even if I don't feel Mat was "ruined" to the degree some make out) is that we saw plenty of the same criticisms after ToM in regards to Mat...that is until it was revealed that most of Mat in ToM was in fact RJ. It was like POOF!!! Almost all of that criticism disappeared almost over night.

 

I mean I'm not saying that BS didn't write Mat poorly here and there. For example, Rand's meeting with Tuon was a poor scene for me but I don't think I found an issue with any other Mat scene in the book. In fact I thoroughly enjoyed more than a few of them.

[papertiger]

Also, disn't Perrin chase Slayer to the Tower of Ghenjei at some point, only to be stopped by Birgitte before entering?

 

Was he trying to trick Perrin into going in there or does Slayer have a pre-existing relationship with the Finns?

[Finnssss22]

Also, disn't Perrin chase Slayer to the Tower of Ghenjei at some point, only to be stopped by Birgitte before entering?

 

Was he trying to trick Perrin into going in there or does Slayer have a pre-existing relationship with the Finns?

 

He was trying to trick Perrin into entering or at least make Perrin believe he entered it. There is no known relationship between Slayer and the Finn's and I'm about 99% sure there is an RJ signing report somewhere stating that it's impossible to enter the Tower from TAR..

[Aver]

Not true. If you have read any of his books, especially Mistborn and Alloy of Law you would know that he writes damn fine swashbucklers, cock ass kickers, and alpha males. I thought Perrin and Matt improved under his pen. I know some liked the old Matt but I didn't until BS made him less self absorbed and more likeable.

Self absorbed? You got to be kidding. The dude should be a fire fighter, he rescues more people than you can count throughout the series. There is no way you can call him self absorbed and still acknowledge how many times he has put his life on the line for other characters.

[wotfan4472]

I really enjoyed Perrin's arc. Especially when he helped save the Black Tower by removing the dreamspike and placing it in the PoD to keep Slayer away. Very nicely done. Then the Pattern calling Perrin back into the battle was good. Perrin is a character that I totally identify with, especially his struggle to lead. Even Optimus Prime had this struggle, and like him, Perrin did a good job. A very good job.

[Terrel88]

Not sure why Perrin is suddenly the ultimate master of T'A, but yeah he's tav'eren blah blah blah. Personally I thought a much better ending would've been if Faile died and Perrin stays in the wolf dream forever, always looking for that falcon. Would've been tragic as we know he's saved her before, but the only person who could save her now is the DO. Literally have no idea what Lanfear was doing in AMOL. The truth of the matter is, if she had stayed in character, the Light would've lost, so they made her a massive retard so Perrin could snap her neck (wtf was that about!?). Just my opinion.

[Agitel]

Not sure why Perrin is suddenly the ultimate master of T'A, but yeah he's tav'eren blah blah blah. Personally I thought a much better ending would've been if Faile died and Perrin stays in the wolf dream forever, always looking for that falcon. Would've been tragic as we know he's saved her before, but the only person who could save her now is the DO. Literally have no idea what Lanfear was doing in AMOL. The truth of the matter is, if she had stayed in character, the Light would've lost, so they made her a massive retard so Perrin could snap her neck (wtf was that about!?). Just my opinion.

 

She was using compulsion. And how was she out of character? We've seen her act similarly as Selene. She was manipulating Perrin so she'd have a chance to get some leverage over the Dark One. She's expressed desire to surpass the DO (and even challenge the Creator) in the past.

[Suttree]

 

 

 

 

 

was very disjointed having him out of the action for a good chunk of the book.

 

I'm glad he got Slayer...that was nice justice for Hopper.

 

The Lanfear bit....I gotta say I didn't get his interaction with her...didn't seem like a matchup/fight pairing that made sense.

 

 

Perrin really hit his stride in ToM. I agree that BS did a hell of a job with that character. Was hoping for the same sort of excellence in AMoL. Was disappointed

 

 

(PS. The 'not killing a woman' bit....seriously? Pretty sure that needed to be left out at this point....last battle, forsaken, evil...it's time to cap 'em whether they're women or men. Throughout the book a lot of original or young themes in the series seem to be coming back into the story...and it didn't make it better)

Brandon's def. more skilled at writing the soul searching, self-depreciating guy than he is at writing a reluctant swashbuckler type (Mat), cocky ass kicker (Logian), or dominant alpha male hero (Rand).

Not true. If you have read any of his books, especially Mistborn and Alloy of Law you would know that he writes damn fine swashbucklers, cock ass kickers, and alpha males. I thought Perrin and Matt improved under his pen. I know some liked the old Matt but I didn't until BS made him less self absorbed and more likeable.

It most certainly is true. Brandon himself admitted that he badly botched Mat and didn't understand the character. Mat was a rogue who was turned into the court jester. There was a ton of RJ in Mat, not so much for Brandon. That type of person is pretty foreign to him.

 

The only real problem I have with some of this on BS (not that I feel some of it is unwarranted, even if I don't feel Mat was "ruined" to the degree some make out) is that we saw plenty of the same criticisms after ToM in regards to Mat...that is until it was revealed that most of Mat in ToM was in fact RJ. It was like POOF!!! Almost all of that criticism disappeared almost over night.

The problem with this claim being there was never really any confusion on what Mat was RJ and what was Brandon in ToM. Also the criticism after ToM for Mat was much less than TGS. Seven Stripped Lass was obviously Brandon(and was ripped upon pre-release) and we know the ToG sequence was RJ for example. I can literally recall only a couple posters (including one notable anti-BS ranter who was tripped up there) who got that mixed up.

 

@Agitel

 

Yeah nothing wrong with Lanfear there and Brandon did a good job with her. She stayed consistent for the entire series. I would have been bummed if she all of a sudden turned back to the light which would have been a total 180 for her character based on traits we see throughout the entire series.

[batcaver]

Yeah, I also thought Lanfear came through well.  I was pretty hyped to see here actually being Lanfear again.  Aside from the cleansing scene, she really hadn't been her old self since her demise in TFoH.   The scene at the end with Perrin was one of the small amount of really in-character, well done moments in the book.

[Finnssss22]

The problem with this claim being there was never really any confusion on what Mat was RJ and what was Brandon in ToM. Also the criticism after ToM for Mat was much less than TGS. Seven Stripped Lass was obviously Brandon(and was ripped upon pre-release) and we know the ToG sequence was RJ for example. I can literally recall only a couple posters (including one notable anti-BS ranter who was tripped up there) who got that mixed up.

 

There is no problem with this claim. I don't have time to go searching through all the threads back then but it was a real thing. I remember pointing this out just on my own at least half a dozen times.

And you realise Sutt, that I'm not attacking rational criticism here, just the irrational juvenile crap.

 

Either way, my point was that, while rational criticism is warranted, the rather "loud" irrational criticism, which seems to make up far too much of the whole, gets out of hand far too quickly around here at times.

[Leopoled Boothe]

I find Perrin vs Slayer battle in the wolf dream very exciting. Unfortunately, he became wounded and absent in the middle book, and while his concluding battle with Slayer was exciting, his confrontation with Lanfear was rather meh. Too rushed? Word count limitation?

 

We know that JR himself wrote a large portion of the ending.  We also know that the wrote the arc of Mat saving Moiraine from the Finns.  While I enjoyed the rescue scene in TOM it always seemed kind of rushed.  Therefore, I think RJ probably wrote the scene with Perrin and Lanfear at the end and both scenes seemed rushed because RJ had not tweaked them to perfection and Brandon was reluctant to mess with what RJ had written.  I agree it could have been drawn out more, i really thing Perrin should have initially be not only willing but eager to kill Moiraine.  He could have been on the brink of attacking her before he began to resist the compulsion.

[Cirin]

Well, Perrin being Perrin and all he'd definitely bring a lot of wolves... which might make it difficult to keep the other animals alive long enough to repopulate... oh, wait... I thought this thread was about Perrin's ARK... my bad.

 

 

All in all, I thought his story went pretty good... Perrin was a character that I came to associate, for good or for ill, with obsession and the feeling of growing sleepy as a result of his surprising lack of adventure while pursuing Faile... for most of several books... unsuccessfully.  Still, he was a character who did benefit from the increase in pace, and as the storyline picked up speed he became more interesting again.  There were certainly some characters who suffered from the overall pace increase, but Perrin, in my opinion, was not one of them.  His role was an interesting one, and I did enjoy the familiarity he gained with Tel'aran'rhiod... I thought Lanfear seeking him out was a little strange... but I suppose she works with who is on hand.  Would've worked better for her to just kill Rand et all by herself, though, rather than trying to get Perrin to do it.  Pride, or in this case a strange desire to use men to do your dirty work, cometh before the fall, as they say.

[dexterryu]

 

 

 

 

 

was very disjointed having him out of the action for a good chunk of the book.

 

I'm glad he got Slayer...that was nice justice for Hopper.

 

The Lanfear bit....I gotta say I didn't get his interaction with her...didn't seem like a matchup/fight pairing that made sense.

 

 

Perrin really hit his stride in ToM. I agree that BS did a hell of a job with that character. Was hoping for the same sort of excellence in AMoL. Was disappointed

 

 

(PS. The 'not killing a woman' bit....seriously? Pretty sure that needed to be left out at this point....last battle, forsaken, evil...it's time to cap 'em whether they're women or men. Throughout the book a lot of original or young themes in the series seem to be coming back into the story...and it didn't make it better)

Brandon's def. more skilled at writing the soul searching, self-depreciating guy than he is at writing a reluctant swashbuckler type (Mat), cocky ass kicker (Logian), or dominant alpha male hero (Rand).

Not true. If you have read any of his books, especially Mistborn and Alloy of Law you would know that he writes damn fine swashbucklers, cock ass kickers, and alpha males. I thought Perrin and Matt improved under his pen. I know some liked the old Matt but I didn't until BS made him less self absorbed and more likeable.

It most certainly is true. Brandon himself admitted that he badly botched Mat and didn't understand the character. Mat was a rogue who was turned into the court jester. There was a ton of RJ in Mat, not so much for Brandon. That type of person is pretty foreign to him.

 

The only real problem I have with some of this on BS (not that I feel some of it is unwarranted, even if I don't feel Mat was "ruined" to the degree some make out) is that we saw plenty of the same criticisms after ToM in regards to Mat...that is until it was revealed that most of Mat in ToM was in fact RJ. It was like POOF!!! Almost all of that criticism disappeared almost over night.

 

I mean I'm not saying that BS didn't write Mat poorly here and there. For example, Rand's meeting with Tuon was a poor scene for me but I don't think I found an issue with any other Mat scene in the book. In fact I thoroughly enjoyed more than a few of them.

 

I didn't have too many issues with ToM Mat. I could really see it in TGS and in the early parts of AMoL. For the most part ToM Mat seemed right to me, especially the tower of genji.

 

I didn't have too much of a problem with Mat in AMoL once he was in his general mode. It's the scenes with him in Ebou Dar that just felt like BS was trying too hard to be funny and missed WHY Mat had some comedic value. It wasn't that Mat himself was funny, it was the situations that the character were in and his response that had comedic value.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

Perrin is one of my favorite characters and the one I think was cheated the most of the main characters. While people were learning until the very end, his hammer was forged in the book before last and his ability to jump straight into TAR didn't come until more than halfway through the final book. Everybody else was fairly powerful books ago. Then, he barely had a chance to use the hammer in a cool way. At least we got to see him smash one dog from the Great Hunt's skull in with it.

[Vambram]

Perrin is one of my favorite characters and the one I think was cheated the most of the main characters. While people were learning until the very end, his hammer was forged in the book before last and his ability to jump straight into TAR didn't come until more than halfway through the final book. Everybody else was fairly powerful books ago. Then, he barely had a chance to use the hammer in a cool way. At least we got to see him smash one dog from the Great Hunt's skull in with it.

 

Don't forget, but Perrin also used his hammer to kill Slayer in AMOL. In TGS, TOM, and AMOL, Perrin had become one of the most powerful characters in telan`rhoid (sp?)

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

Perrin is one of my favorite characters and the one I think was cheated the most of the main characters. While people were learning until the very end, his hammer was forged in the book before last and his ability to jump straight into TAR didn't come until more than halfway through the final book. Everybody else was fairly powerful books ago. Then, he barely had a chance to use the hammer in a cool way. At least we got to see him smash one dog from the Great Hunt's skull in with it.

 

Don't forget, but Perrin also used his hammer to kill Slayer in AMOL. In TGS, TOM, and AMOL, Perrin had become one of the most powerful characters in telan`rhoid (sp?)

 

 

Absolutely. But everything happens in the last two books of a huge series.

[abischel06]

I did enjoy the majority of Perrin's presence in AMOL, however like many others, I felt borderline indifferent with the way the whole Lanfear/Perrin thing turned out. I mean it makes sense that, since Lanfear has always had her eyes on one of the three boys and upon Rand's final renouncement of her, that she would then pursue Mat or Perrin. But it was sooo sudden, and slightly awkward.

 

Anyway, I did like the similarity of development in Perrin and Rand in that the both needed to learn to let go and accept things for what they were. Perrin could no longer hold back if he was to do what he was born to do. Rand could no longer try to hold up the weight of the world solely on his shoulders. Kinda cool parallel in there somewhere, even if I may suck at wording it.

[Suttree]

 

I did enjoy the majority of Perrin's presence in AMOL, however like many others, I felt borderline indifferent with the way the whole Lanfear/Perrin thing turned out. I mean it makes sense that, since Lanfear has always had her eyes on one of the three boys and upon Rand's final renouncement of her, that she would then pursue Mat or Perrin. But it was sooo sudden, and slightly awkward.

There is actually a bit of foreshadowing for the Perrin/Lanfear connection throughout the early books.

[wRAR]

Such as?

[Suttree]

Such as?

Just a couple examples...

 

LoC Ch. 4

 

   "A man destined for glory."

   He spun away from the mirror and found himself staring at the most beautiful woman he had ever seen. He noticed nothing else about the room, cared to see nothing but her. Her eyes were pools of midnight, her skin creamy pale and surely softer, more smooth than her dress of white silk. When she moved toward him, his mouth went dry. He realized that every other woman he had ever seen was clumsy and ill-shaped. He shivered, and wondered why he felt cold.

   "A man should grasp his destiny with both hands," she said, smiling. It was almost enough to warm him, that smile. She was tall, less than a hand short of being able to look him in the eyes. Silver combs held hair darker than a raven's wing. A broad belt of silver links banded a waist he could have encircled with his hands.

   "Yes," he whispered. Inside him, startlement fought with acceptance. He had no use for glory. But when she said it, he wanted nothing else. "I mean..." The murmuring sound dug at his skull. "No!" It was gone, and for a moment, so was acceptance. Almost. He put a hand to his head, touched the golden helmet, took it off. "I... I don't think I want this. It is not mine."

   "Don't want it?" She laughed. "What man with blood in his veins would not want glory? As much glory as if you had sounded the Horn of Valere."

   "I don't," he said, though a piece of him shouted that he lied. The Horn of Valere. The Horn rang out, and the wild charge began. Death rode at his shoulder, and yet she waited ahead, too. His lover. His destroyer. "No! I am a blacksmith."

   Her smile was pitying. "Such a little thing to want. You must not listen to those who would try to turn you from your destiny. They would demean you, debase you. Destroy you. Fighting fate can only bring pain. Why choose pain, when you can have glory? When your name can be remembered alongside all the heroes of legend?"

   "I am no hero."

   "You don't know the half of what you are. Of what you can be. Come, share a cup with me, to destiny and glory." There was a shining silver cup in her hand, filled with blood-red wine. "Drink."

   He stared at the cup, frowning. There was something... familiar about it. A growling chewed at his brain. "No!" He fought away from it, refusing to listen. "No!"

   She held out the golden cup to him. "Drink."

   Golden? I thought the cup was... It was... The rest of the thought would not come. But in his confusion the sound came again, inside, gnawing, demanding to be heard. "No," he said. "No!" He looked at the golden helmet in his hands and threw it aside. "I am a blacksmith. I am..." The sound within his head fought him, struggling toward being heard. He wrapped his arms around his head to shut it out, and only shut it in. "I – am – a – man!" he shouted.

   Darkness enfolded him, but her voice followed, whispering. "The night is always there, and dreams come to all men. Especially you, my wildling. And I will always be in your dreams."

 

LoC Ch. 6

Turning points in people's lives, or what's fated. It's always important." She hesitated for a moment, glancing at him. "One more thing," she said slowly. "If you meet a woman – the most beautiful woman you've ever seen – run!"

[rane008]

Interesting that I seem to be the first to mention what I thought was the huge flaw in Perrin's arc (unless I missed something, in which case, I'm sure I'll soon know, hehe).  When Perrin dropped out of TAR, he was near death and knew that his body would have died if he had stayed in longer.  So how did Gaul survive?  Because he was in a LOT longer.  I suppose it could have to do with his proximity to SG and the way that time flowed slower there?

[Agitel]

Interesting that I seem to be the first to mention what I thought was the huge flaw in Perrin's arc (unless I missed something, in which case, I'm sure I'll soon know, hehe).  When Perrin dropped out of TAR, he was near death and knew that his body would have died if he had stayed in longer.  So how did Gaul survive?  Because he was in a LOT longer.  I suppose it could have to do with his proximity to SG and the way that time flowed slower there?

 

You answered your own question. I'm pretty sure when Perrin returns to Gaul, Gaul just says he's been there a few hours at most. Maybe a couple of days. Both are far shorter than Perrin's time in there.

[Torome]

 

Such as?

Just a couple examples...

 

LoC Ch. 4

 

>   "A man destined for glory."

   He spun away from the mirror and found himself staring at the most beautiful woman he had ever seen. He noticed nothing else about the room, cared to see nothing but her. Her eyes were pools of midnight, her skin creamy pale and surely softer, more smooth than her dress of white silk. When she moved toward him, his mouth went dry. He realized that every other woman he had ever seen was clumsy and ill-shaped. He shivered, and wondered why he felt cold.

   "A man should grasp his destiny with both hands," she said, smiling. It was almost enough to warm him, that smile. She was tall, less than a hand short of being able to look him in the eyes. Silver combs held hair darker than a raven's wing. A broad belt of silver links banded a waist he could have encircled with his hands.

   "Yes," he whispered. Inside him, startlement fought with acceptance. He had no use for glory. But when she said it, he wanted nothing else. "I mean..." The murmuring sound dug at his skull. "No!" It was gone, and for a moment, so was acceptance. Almost. He put a hand to his head, touched the golden helmet, took it off. "I... I don't think I want this. It is not mine."

   "Don't want it?" She laughed. "What man with blood in his veins would not want glory? As much glory as if you had sounded the Horn of Valere."

   "I don't," he said, though a piece of him shouted that he lied. The Horn of Valere. The Horn rang out, and the wild charge began. Death rode at his shoulder, and yet she waited ahead, too. His lover. His destroyer. "No! I am a blacksmith."

   Her smile was pitying. "Such a little thing to want. You must not listen to those who would try to turn you from your destiny. They would demean you, debase you. Destroy you. Fighting fate can only bring pain. Why choose pain, when you can have glory? When your name can be remembered alongside all the heroes of legend?"

   "I am no hero."

   "You don't know the half of what you are. Of what you can be. Come, share a cup with me, to destiny and glory." There was a shining silver cup in her hand, filled with blood-red wine. "Drink."

   He stared at the cup, frowning. There was something... familiar about it. A growling chewed at his brain. "No!" He fought away from it, refusing to listen. "No!"

   She held out the golden cup to him. "Drink."

   Golden? I thought the cup was... It was... The rest of the thought would not come. But in his confusion the sound came again, inside, gnawing, demanding to be heard. "No," he said. "No!" He looked at the golden helmet in his hands and threw it aside. "I am a blacksmith. I am..." The sound within his head fought him, struggling toward being heard. He wrapped his arms around his head to shut it out, and only shut it in. "I – am – a – man!" he shouted.

   Darkness enfolded him, but her voice followed, whispering. "The night is always there, and dreams come to all men. Especially you, my wildling. And I will always be in your dreams."

 

LoC Ch. 6

Turning points in people's lives, or what's fated. It's always important." She hesitated for a moment, glancing at him. "One more thing," she said slowly. "If you meet a woman – the most beautiful woman you've ever seen – run!"

 

Actually, those scenes are from The Dragon Reborn, not Lord of Chaos

[Suttree]

Thanks for the correction Toro! Don't know how I made that mistake.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

I feel that Lanfear -> Rand -> Perrin is almost the same basic story with a small twist as Berelain -> Rand -> Perrin.

 

Lanfear was all over Rand, couldn't get him, moved to Perrin at the very end.

Berelain went for Rand at the very beginning, couldn't get him, moved to Perrin for most of her story.

 

They're both superhotties with long dark hair and extraordinary bosoms.