Prologue Through to the End of Chapter 35

[Luckers]

Discuss.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

As I said in this post,

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78008-prologue-through-to-the-end-of-chapter-25/?p=2735902

people who should think Graendal is dead, suspect her of things

Cadsuane says:

Chapter 35, p. 599 (TOR)

"Is would suspect it is Graendal".

Cadsuane was told of her "bale-death" by Nynaeve right after it occurred. She shouldn't suspect Graendal of anything (or am I missing something?).

[KakitaOCU]

Considering we, the fan base, immediately decided Graendal probably wasn't dead and she faked it and escaped I hardly find it strange to think Cadsuane, who is likely a lot smarter than most of us, could reach the same conclusion.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

Considering we, the fan base, immediately decided Graendal probably wasn't dead and she faked it and escaped I hardly find it strange to think Cadsuane, who is likely a lot smarter than most of us, could reach the same conclusion.

but how?...walk me through her reasoning. It would have to be convincing enough for her to (on a snap judgement) suspect Graendal over Moghedien.

"The fan base" was far from unanimous in believing her alive.

[Jonrox]

Did I miss where Roedran/Murandians got assigned in the battles?  I can account for everyone else, but I don't remember them being mentioned at any of the four battlegrounds.

[clusterflux]

As I said in this post,

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78008-prologue-through-to-the-end-of-chapter-25/?p=2735902

people who should think Graendal is dead, suspect her of things

Cadsuane says:

Chapter 35, p. 599 (TOR)

"Is would suspect it is Graendal".

Cadsuane was told of her "bale-death" by Nynaeve right after it occurred. She shouldn't suspect Graendal of anything (or am I missing something?).

 

The entire sentence was "From your description of what she did to poor Sarene, I would suspect it is Graendal."

 

She says this to Aviendha, who saw Hessalam using Compulsion on Sarene. From pg 593: "The horrid woman had her hand on Sarene's shoulder; the slender White stood with her head turned toward the Forsaken, staring at her with vapid, adoring eyes."

 

I figured since Graendal was known for using Compulsion frequently, Cadsuane made an educated guess that it was her.

 

I did see your other post and was wondering if Perrin had seen enough Forsaken meetings in TAR to know what most of them look/smell like (I remember Hopper taking him to spy on some of them in the early books). Or perhaps he knows all the names the wolves use for the other female Forsaken so he was guessing based on process of elimination.

 

I agree, it feels off that any of the Light side characters should think she's alive at all though.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think it was a bit off, but not a mistake. Cadsuane is a crafty woman. She can put the pieces together very well. A woman using compulsion exactly like Graendal would, collecting Sarene (a most beautiful woman), using the True Power to Travel. Cadsuane has never shirked at changing her thoughts, the obvious conclusion for her is that Graendal did not die.

 

However, it is strange that nobody at least comments on it. Something like "Hey, I thought she was dead!" would have greatly improved it. 

 

So I didn't have a problem with Cadsuane's assumption, just the lack of any mention of Graendal supposedly dead. 

 

Having said that, I was confused, why the heck did Sarene get killed like that? According to Min, she was supposed to have a tempestuous love affair. Obviously, one can say that it merely happened off screen somewhere between aCoS and aMoL, but it seems highly unlikely to say the least, however, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt here. 

[KakitaOCU]

Don't believe they're dead till you see the body.

 

To answer the specific question of walking through her reasoning.

 

"I didn't see the death. Those who told me of it didn't see the death. The Forsaken are immensely powerful and seem to be utter cowards half the time. She very easily could have a black sister or someone else who could channel to place the compulsion that Rand used as a failsafe."

 

Honestly, I see Cadsuane's view of Graendal being alive as simple logic and reasoning. It's the type of thing I'd assume and I don't pretend to have the life experience and intelligence Cadsuane clearly carries.

 

As for the fandom being divided, it was divided very neatly down the line of "Her compulsion ended, she's dead." vs "Someone else could have done the compulsion." Even if Cadsuane only had those two thoughts, even if she leaned towards the first. Better be safe and assume you still have to deal with Graendal.

[MarkDiLillo]

As I said in this post,

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78008-prologue-through-to-the-end-of-chapter-25/?p=2735902

people who should think Graendal is dead, suspect her of things

Cadsuane says:

Chapter 35, p. 599 (TOR)

"Is would suspect it is Graendal".

Cadsuane was told of her "bale-death" by Nynaeve right after it occurred. She shouldn't suspect Graendal of anything (or am I missing something?).

 

Oversight and mistake on the authors part IMO.  With Brandon's tendancy to be very blunt and use almost no subtleness, I think it's safe to say that when things like this happen they are errors.  Otherwise we would have a sentence explaining.

[pmtang]

oops, wrong thread.

[David Selig]

As I said in this post,

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78008-prologue-through-to-the-end-of-chapter-25/?p=2735902

people who should think Graendal is dead, suspect her of things

Cadsuane says:

Chapter 35, p. 599 (TOR)

"Is would suspect it is Graendal".

Cadsuane was told of her "bale-death" by Nynaeve right after it occurred. She shouldn't suspect Graendal of anything (or am I missing something?).

Perrin told Elyas earlier to warn people about Graendal and he came to Cadsuane's camp.

[Rand alSaurus]

Well I'm somewhere inside the giant chapter, so this is the safest place for me to hang right now. I should finish the book tonight, with a little less than 200 pages to go.

 

Aside from some extremely awkward and choppy dialogue, I'm happy with the book so far. There are a few things that make me go "HUH?" and I've had a couple "OH NO!" moments. My eyes got a little watery once or twice. I've laughed out loud several times.

 

The Lan POVs in the beginning were some of my favorite. But right now I'm completely in awe of Androl and Pevara. When BS said awesome, he meant it. They've quickly become my favorite characters in the series. And all from the events in just one book.

 

I can't really see where this is headed yet. It really seems too few pages to wrap up what needs to be. I have the strange feeling I'm going to be left with too many questions. I just hope there's a sense of completion at the end. That it comes together somehow. 

 

I wish I could speak a little more freely about some of the things that happened, but I am a hair past chapter 35 and I don't want to say things I shouldn't. I've been surprised though, and I'm starting to worry about some of our friends that still live.. Sigh..

[Agitel]

 

As I said in this post,

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78008-prologue-through-to-the-end-of-chapter-25/?p=2735902

people who should think Graendal is dead, suspect her of things

Cadsuane says:

Chapter 35, p. 599 (TOR)

"Is would suspect it is Graendal".

Cadsuane was told of her "bale-death" by Nynaeve right after it occurred. She shouldn't suspect Graendal of anything (or am I missing something?).

Perrin told Elyas earlier to warn people about Graendal and he came to Cadsuane's camp.

 

That is a good catch and is the most plausible explanation, even if it's not explained.

 

Anyway, I've also just started the "big huge chapter." I'm pretty pleased with what I've read so far. The dialog is more polished than it was in ToM, and while there have been a couple of moments where characters felt awkward, I feel like most of it's been acceptable to good. 

[ksbsnowowl]

Vanin a darkfriend? Bastard!

 

I agree that the story has been good so far, though the writing has left much to be desired...

That, and the logic gap of the 250 mile retreat to the forest north of Caemlyn.

[Agitel]

Vanin a darkfriend? Bastard!

 

I agree that the story has been good so far, though the writing has left much to be desired...

That, and the logic gap of the 250 mile retreat to the forest north of Caemlyn.

 

People keep saying 250. I could have sworn I read 150. Still a very long trek...

 

I feel like the prose has been a vast improvement over TOWERS so far, which I just got through reading before starting this book.

[ksbsnowowl]

 

People keep saying 250. I could have sworn I read 150. Still a very long trek...

 

You could be right on the 150 miles vs 250. I may have been influenced by others' mis-posts. Regardless, still an illogical leap.

 

Other than some of the details, the overall story is still quite good, and intriguing.

[Selene's Shadow]

Vanin a darkfriend? Bastard!

 

I agree that the story has been good so far, though the writing has left much to be desired...

That, and the logic gap of the 250 mile retreat to the forest north of Caemlyn.

I highly doubt he is a darkfriend. To obvious what with Faile's suspicion and anyways the fear did not seem to be a DF fear but something else. Very possibly compulsion or something along those lines.

[mrdravid]

 

 

 

People keep saying 250. I could have sworn I read 150. Still a very long trek...

 

You could be right on the 150 miles vs 250. I may have been influenced by others' mis-posts. Regardless, still an illogical leap.

 

Other than some of the details, the overall story is still quite good, and intriguing.

From memory it said 50 leagues

[rbtwinky]

 

Vanin a darkfriend? Bastard!

 

I agree that the story has been good so far, though the writing has left much to be desired...

That, and the logic gap of the 250 mile retreat to the forest north of Caemlyn.

I highly doubt he is a darkfriend. To obvious what with Faile's suspicion and anyways the fear did not seem to be a DF fear but something else. Very possibly compulsion or something along those lines.

Vanin is definitely not a Darkfriend.  My take is that he was using his super scout skills to find out what Faile was sneaking about trying to hide.  He's not the kind to accept authority for authority's sake.

 

Anyone notice the Lanfear moon as the chapter icon for the chapter where Faile & co get sent to the Blight?  I don't know how Lanfear caused all that to happen, but mark my words, she's behind it.

 

And where is Moghedien?  She's going to have a part to play in this before it's all said and done.

[Monkeyfister]

 

 

Vanin a darkfriend? Bastard!

 

I agree that the story has been good so far, though the writing has left much to be desired...

That, and the logic gap of the 250 mile retreat to the forest north of Caemlyn.

I highly doubt he is a darkfriend. To obvious what with Faile's suspicion and anyways the fear did not seem to be a DF fear but something else. Very possibly compulsion or something along those lines.

Vanin is definitely not a Darkfriend.  My take is that he was using his super scout skills to find out what Faile was sneaking about trying to hide.  He's not the kind to accept authority for authority's sake.

 

Anyone notice the Lanfear moon as the chapter icon for the chapter where Faile & co get sent to the Blight?  I don't know how Lanfear caused all that to happen, but mark my words, she's behind it.

 

And where is Moghedien?  She's going to have a part to play in this before it's all said and done.

 

She was in Perrin's POV... dissing him, and leaving him to die. I was about to disagree with you, but come to think of it, she probably did send Faile to the Blight-- just out of sheer spite. Very much in her character to do that.