Mat the king of Manetheren?

[MCauthon]

Hello every one, im new to the form and ive just now finshed reading the 11 book (and now ive started reading everthing from the start again :P), anyway ive gotta ask you what do you think about the possbialty that mat not perrin is the king of Manetheren?

 

in the first book we see how the blood runes in his vines much more strongley then in the other members of his party +

we have the holes, he had holes in his memoriy before he went to the tarngel, and after reading this pieace:

 

- In an interview Mr. Jordan stated that Mat's memories were from other men! Apparently the only people that enter the ter'angreal are gamblers and men of great daring, and most were great warriors and generals, the only ones daring enough to gamble with going in the ter'angreal. So when he asked for his memory to be filled they played a mean joke on him and filled his memeory with that of all of those men who had entered the ter'angreal over the years! So unfortunately Mat never got his real memory back.

 

http://web.mac.com/enarra/wot//Main_Characters/?

 

i think maybe he is the king of Manetheren, the blood is the strongest within him, and theres the holes in his mind 2,

and he always thought it was funny Elayne thought she can rule on 2 rivers...

so what do you think, is mat the king?

and if he isnt who is he?

 

 

the Theory i thought about when writing this:

http://www.wotmania.com/theorypostdbtheory.asp?ID=855&Category=Mat

 

 

ohh last thing sorry for my english, i aint a english naitve speaker :[

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm sorry ... there is no King of Manetheren anymore. The country no longer exists, and therefore, it has no King.

 

Perrin is Lord of the Two Rivers by popular acclaim, and as Falie's husband, has a good chance of becoming King of Saldaea. Perrin brought out the Banner of the Red Eagle as a form of deception, a way to hide his true intentions. He has no plans to resurrect Manetheren, and indeed, has sworn not to.

 

Mat is the Prince of the Ravens currently, and will be consort to the Empress of Seanchan as soon as Tuon officially takes the title. Whether Mat gets a cool new Raveny title or not remains to be seen. But none of that is related to Manetheren. Mat's memories come from men from a variety of nations between from the Trolloc Wars until the War of the Hundred Years. Only a few of the men who supplied them came from Manetheren itself.

 

So, neither Perrin nor Mat are "King of Manetheren", because there is none. As far as being descended from Aemon, the last King of Manetheren ... well, probably everyone in Emond's Field (a corruption of Aemon's Field) is related to the ancient kings of Manetheren in some way or other. It would be essentially impossible to tell who is in a more or less direct line from Aemon himself.

[MCauthon]

Two Rivers people are fighting, they dont think themself as andor people.

And i think they love that fact they are seaprated from Andor i dont see them bow before the lion thron... so anything can happen.

 

and mat memmoris its orginal ones, not the ones he got from the foxes are from Manetheren cause he screams "Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande!" (Pg 265 ppb, tEotW, The Caemlyn Road)

for the honor of the red eagle! For the honor of the rose of the sun! For the rose of the sun!" She continues to explain saying that this was the war cry of Manetheren namely its last king, Aemon.

 

so he gotta be at list a soldier back then if not the king himself...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Two Rivers people are fighting, they dont think themself as andor people.

 

They don't think of themselves as part of Manetheren either. They think of themselves as "Two River's folk".

 

and mat memmoris its orginal ones, not the ones he got from the foxes are from Manetheren cause he screams "Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande!"

 

Speaking in the Old Tongue like that probably does mean that Mat is descended from people in ancient Manetheren, quite possibly nobility or even Aemon himself. It is not a memory of a previous life, though, and it doesn't make him King of Manetheren now, because Manetheren doesn't exist anymore. I have pretty good reason to believe that I can trace one line of ancestry to Charlemagne, but that doesn't make me King of the Franks or Holy Roman Emperor. There are thousands, perhaps even millions of people in the world who can trace a part of their ancestry to ancient kings. Mat was born a farmboy. He has obtained position and power because of his actions, not his ancestry. And there is no more King of Manetheren.

[Mr Ares]

Are Mat's parents still alive? If so they would surely come before him in the line of succession. Also, Manetheran is a country 2,000 years dead. Since when does having a King for an ancestor make it legal for you to carve out chunks of Andor and Ghealdan to resurrect it? Also, that would be very impolite. FinallyManetheran has been dead 2,000 years.Mat will not be bringing it back. Why do people have this obsession with it?

[MCauthon]

i think Manetheren is such an obsession

beacouse of the fact that two river and thier area start looking like a seaprated kingdom with a leadership and an army that listen to no man other then perrin (maybe rand 2 but every 1 listen to him...), im sure they arent gonna join andor and if thats the case somthing gotta happen and it seem like mat is a descended of some ancient Manetheren people even the king so hell be a good leader.

even i dont know what the sienchin will say about that...

[Mat is the Boss]

Mat would refuse to become King if someone asked him anyway. And I don`t think we`ll se any new nations in aMoL.

[DemandredFO]

One nation could possibly be resurrected and that's Malkier. Malkier does have a living king, and now Queen. I think it's hilarious picturing Nyneave a queen :lol: . I am of the opinion that Malkier will rise and Lan and Nyneave Will be king and queen. This is just my opinion so please no flames. Manetheran will not come back because (1) it has no living king and is 2,000 years dead (2) most of Andor, Ghealdon and I forget what else wouldn't surrender territory (3) Perrin has given up the right and I don't see Mat as the king type (4) that's all I can think of. I can see Cairhein and Andor merging cuz they have one queen and they are right next to each other. That one fourth age quote referred to the Court of the Sun, now I don't know if Cairhein was called that and I maybe be misremembering but I don't think so.

[Mr Ares]

Malkier is a possibility, because there are living Malkieri and it won't involve carving out territory from another country. I makes more sense than bringing back a country that has been dead for about the same period Jesus has in our world, if not longer. Also, as I said previously, resurrecting Manetheran would be impolite, and the Two Rivers people think of themselve as Two Rivers people, and Manetheran covered other parts of Andor and Ghealdan as well - are they going tobe brought into New Manetheran? Finally:

I have pretty good reason to believe that I can trace one line of ancestry to Charlemagne, but that doesn't make me King of the Franks or Holy Roman Emperor.

 

So I was premature in making my All Hail King Robert banners then? All that work for nothing.

[RobertAlexWillis]

So I was premature in making my All Hail King Robert banners then? All that work for nothing.

 

Nah, its OK. You can just sell them and send me the proceeds. I accept any and all donations.

 

Honestly, though, you couldn't PAY me enough to be the King of a modern nation. The drive to power is something totally foreign to me. As it is, on the thread subject, foreign to Mat. He doesn't WANT to be King. Being King is a serious pain in the butt.

[Thor]

Is that because a king has to sit all day listening to people or is there another reason? :lol:

 

People want Manatheren back mostly because it seems really exotic and the notion of resurrecting something back to its full glory also seems really appealing.

 

But meh, Malkier is enough, no need for two nations to come back.

[grump]

If Mat can become king by right of the old blood remember he has just married the ruler of the remainder of the world What better way to reuninte a splintered world once TG is out of the way

[Mr Ares]

So I was premature in making my All Hail King Robert banners then? All that work for nothing.

 

Nah' date=' its OK. You can just sell them and send me the proceeds. I accept any and all donations.

 

Honestly, though, you couldn't PAY me enough to be the King of a modern nation. The drive to power is something totally foreign to me. As it is, on the thread subject, foreign to Mat. He doesn't WANT to be King. Being King is a serious pain in the butt.[/quote']

 

I'd rather keep the banners. There must be someone out there stupid enough to want a kingship. Just change their name to robert and voila.

And yes, you are obviously right about Mat, he wants Kingship no more than you do, and he dislikes nobles. And while we're on the subject of resurrecting dead nations, who is in line to be the next Monarch of Aridhol? My random guess is Lini. All hail Queen Lini! What better way to unite the world than bringing back a country dead since the Trolloc wars and putting it in the hands of someone unwilling (presumably)to be a ruler, and maybe not any good at it...

[HoppyQ]

I just started rereading over Christmas so it's pretty fresh in my memory. The last king of Manetheren was Al'Thorin. (see that part where Mo is telling the two rivers people about the history) Sound sort of familiar? I would think that if anyone ends up the king of Manetheren it would be Rand. Remember the borderlanders said that the Al in front of a name meant nobility. Having said that, I think the two rivers will stay the two rivers and Perrin will be lord of there answering to the queen of Andor.

[Jellybelly]

A similarity of names does not imply familial relations. There is nothing to indicate that Rand is related to the last King of Manetheren.

 

All that aside, Manetheren will not rise again.

[Daruya]

The last king of Manetheren was Al'Thorin. (see that part where Mo is telling the two rivers people about the history) Sound sort of familiar? I would think that if anyone ends up the king of Manetheren it would be Rand. Remember the borderlanders said that the Al in front of a name meant nobility. Having said that, I think the two rivers will stay the two rivers and Perrin will be lord of there answering to the queen of Andor.

 

Based on that reasoning, Tam Al'Thor would be crowned king before Rand, since Rand is not a blood relation to Tam . . .

 

However, the last part of your post is a definite possibility.

[Thor]

Bashere doesn't have al, and he is still nobility. Perrin is going to the Borderlands with his Ogiers and Aiels/Tinkers to replant the forest after the Blight is destroyed. Hum, hope he doesn't go all green peace and stuff. :lol:

[DemandredFO]

The next king of Aridhol would be padan Fain because he contains Mordeth who served the last king of Aridhol. :lol:

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, if we're going strictly by names, the last King of Manetheren was Aemon al'Caar al'Thorin (Aemon, son of Caar, son of Thorin) We know of one al'Thor family (which actually has no heir, Rand being adopted), but there are several al'Caars in the Emonds Field area.

 

Wait a minute ... why am I taking this seriously ....

 

 

-sigh-

[HoppyQ]

You're taking it seriously because, until the last book comes out, all any of us can do is go over the other books looking for some point to ponder or argue over. Right now it's the only thing we have. I really don't think it's material in any way but, since someone brought up the whole king thing, I figured I might as well put in my two TarValon marks worth.

[bhthomas88]

well i think since rand is THE DRAGON REBORN if he wants to resurect Manetheren and name bela queen he could.so forget who could possiple be the decendent of a 2000 year dead king

although i think bela would be a better queen then elayne

[Mr Ares]

well i think since rand is THE DRAGON REBORN if he wants to resurect Manetheren and name bela queen he could.so forget who could possiple be the decendent of a 2000 year dead king

although i think bela would be a better queen then elayne

Elayne is one of Rand's girlfriends. If you think being the saviour of the Light, the Lord of the Morning, the Dragon Reborn, or anything else will save him from her wrath if he starts taking away chunks of her Kingdom, you're an idiot. Also, Bela would make a terrible Queen, why do people have this obsession with this second rate horse. By the way, it's not speciesism that makes me rule out Bela's abilties as a Queen, I know horses can succeed in politics - see Incitatus.

 

Finally , the whole al' thing used to mean "son of" in the Two Rivers. Prove me wrong, mortals, prove me wrong.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Editing despair is fun.