Male Characters who could learn to Channel

[skyfoo]

Hi All,

 

Here's my thoughts on 4 men who could learn:

 

1. Thom - He's related to a channeler: his nephew Owen. Also, he is so old, now that he's Moiraine's warder, he'll be too old to travel the world telling stories with her. But if he learns to channel, he could grow younger and have more time together. Lastly, in EotW, Min sees a viewing around Thom of the White Tower. Could it be that he will eventually reside there or be connected to it? Seems plausible.

 

2. Gawyn - Also related to channelers: mom and sis. Again, he's bonded to Egwene, she'll out live him by hundreds of years unless he learns to channel. I have this idea that Rand will tell him he can channel. Gawyn will see this as a gift and it will facilitate his forgiveness of Rand.

 

3. & 4. Matt and Perrin. OK, so this is a stretch, but it does seem that lots of people in the Two Rivers can learn to channel. There are contingents in the White and Black Towers, so why not? Also, Matt's sis Bode can channel. Can you imagine Matt's reaction if he finds out he can channel!? It would be hilarious!!!!!

 

OK, though I've speculated upon it, I don't think Perrin will be able to Channel. His wolf abilities seem plenty magical enough. And the same is probably true with Matt too. His luck and battle skills seem to fulfill his character's growth arc.....but they're still might fun thoughts!!

Edited November 26, 2012 by skyfoo

[Random Man]

If we were to dismiss the thematic unlikeliness of any of these characters to start channeling and look at the math,

Gawyn and Mat would be the strongest cases to make out of the two since they both share a sibling who can channel. That said, knowing that the "channeling gene" is a recessive, even if you were to look at it as a simple pairing of a single gene inherited from the parents:

 

Channeling gene: "c": Dominant "C" inability to channel, recessive "c" ability -- ability to channel manifests with "cc" pairing

Two carrier parents: Cc -- Cc

Possible offspring gene combinations: CC, Cc, Cc, cc

 

there'd be a 25% chance of each child inheriting the (cc) twin recessive genes. It's a 1 in 16 chance in this scenario for two siblings to both inherit the ability to channel.

 

Now, obviously it isn't as simple as that since there's also differences between "sparkers" and "learners" and channeling is also tied to the soul. It simply hasn't been explained further than that; for instance, are there more than one gene that controls channeling ability? And how do you quantify the ties of channeling ability to the "soul?"

 

That said, the genetic possibility for Mat or Gawyn to have inherited the ability to channel is there and not out of the realm of possibility. I highly doubt we'll ever delve into it within the context of the series, however.

[TOMTEFAR]

If we were to dismiss the thematic unlikeliness of any of these characters to start channeling and look at the math,

Gawyn and Mat would be the strongest cases to make out of the two since they both share a sibling who can channel. That said, knowing that the "channeling gene" is a recessive, even if you were to look at it as a simple pairing of a single gene inherited from the parents:

 

Channeling gene: "c": Dominant "C" inability to channel, recessive "c" ability -- ability to channel manifests with "cc" pairing

Two carrier parents: Cc -- Cc

Possible offspring gene combinations: CC, Cc, Cc, cc

 

there'd be a 25% chance of each child inheriting the (cc) twin recessive genes. It's a 1 in 16 chance in this scenario for two siblings to both inherit the ability to channel.

 

Now, obviously it isn't as simple as that since there's also differences between "sparkers" and "learners" and channeling is also tied to the soul. It simply hasn't been explained further than that; for instance, are there more than one gene that controls channeling ability? And how do you quantify the ties of channeling ability to the "soul?"

 

That said, the genetic possibility for Mat or Gawyn to have inherited the ability to channel is there and not out of the realm of possibility. I highly doubt we'll ever delve into it within the context of the series, however.

 

Actually that way of looking at genetic inheritance is not supported anywhere anymore. It's completely wrong aproach and was deviced before generic inheritance was understood. So you could actually dissregard it compleatly since it has no bearing at all on anything. =)

 

The way genetic inheritance happens is a much more complex procedure. Don't ask me about the chance of one of them being a chaneller though since I have no idea of how you actually should calculate it.

Edited November 26, 2012 by TOMTEFAR

[Random Man]

If we were to dismiss the thematic unlikeliness of any of these characters to start channeling and look at the math,

Gawyn and Mat would be the strongest cases to make out of the two since they both share a sibling who can channel. That said, knowing that the "channeling gene" is a recessive, even if you were to look at it as a simple pairing of a single gene inherited from the parents:

 

Channeling gene: "c": Dominant "C" inability to channel, recessive "c" ability -- ability to channel manifests with "cc" pairing

Two carrier parents: Cc -- Cc

Possible offspring gene combinations: CC, Cc, Cc, cc

 

there'd be a 25% chance of each child inheriting the (cc) twin recessive genes. It's a 1 in 16 chance in this scenario for two siblings to both inherit the ability to channel.

 

Now, obviously it isn't as simple as that since there's also differences between "sparkers" and "learners" and channeling is also tied to the soul. It simply hasn't been explained further than that; for instance, are there more than one gene that controls channeling ability? And how do you quantify the ties of channeling ability to the "soul?"

 

That said, the genetic possibility for Mat or Gawyn to have inherited the ability to channel is there and not out of the realm of possibility. I highly doubt we'll ever delve into it within the context of the series, however.

 

Actually that way of looking at genetic inheritance is not supported anywhere anymore. It's completely wrong aproach and was deviced before generic inheritance was understood. So you could actually dissregard it compleatly since it has no bearing at all on anything. =)

 

The way genetic inheritance happens is a much more complex procedure. Don't ask me about the chance of one of them being a chaneller though since I have no idea of how you actually should calculate it.

As I said, it was an overly simplistic analysis. Don't have time to get into recombination or what have you. Plus I've not been following biology for the past 10 years. This was a simplified explanation of how genes are passed on as understood and taught at the time of RJ's development of his world so it shouldn't be disregarded completely, however, if it's what he based his reasoning off of.

[Maleshub]

Regarding Mat, he will probably never learn to channel. His dreams after his agreement with Aludra saw him using Dragons/Cannons in 100 battle fields. With Mat's TG battles and reunification of Seanchan, that's probably 50 years worth of battles. He'll live a long and happy life; but not centuries.

[David Selig]

Genetically, Galad and Gawyn seem the most likely. Both have 3 close blood relatives who are channellers (Elayne, Moiraine and Rand/Morgase respectively).

[Barid Bel Medar]

Just from RJ, he said that Mat cannot learn to Channel. I can't recall if he said the same about Perrin.

 

He emphatically said that Thom could not channel. However, the caveat to that is that it can be interpreted to mean that he can't channel NOW, and it is possible that he could learn.

 

Galad and Gawyn I can't recall a definitive answer, however, when someone asked the question about Galad, Brandon said that plotlines will be tied up in the last 3 books, not new ones created. Which can be interpreted how you will. It could be seen as Brandon saying "not gonna happen this late in the game." You could also interpret it as it was always Galad's plotline to channel, it would certainly make sense, having a Whitecloak leader able to channel would do a lot plot-wise. However, after ToM, I would have to say it was a no. Similar with Thom, I think it is too late in the game, but the possibilities are open, apart from Mat.

[hjustinpace]

According to the Encyclopeadia WOT, "Men with the spark inborn develop the ability later than women, often after they are twenty." A handful of the male characters are young enough that they may still manifest the spark (Mat, Perrin, and Gawyn, but not Galad). They're much more likely to just have the ability to learn, but none has shown any interest in finding out, which is a prerequisite. Not that I think either is likely.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Osan'gar's Razor

[Pinzarn]

He emphatically said that Thom could not channel. However, the caveat to that is that it can be interpreted to mean that he can't channel NOW, and it is possible that he could learn.

 

I couldn't locate the related quote, but I thought it was about Thom's fight with the myrddraal in EotW. People were wondering if the blue flashes were related to Thom channeling. RJ at the tie said that Thom did not channel in his fight with the myrddraal. It wasn't worded in a way (that I remember) that Thom couldn't channel, just that he didn't channel in that fight.

[Suttree]

He emphatically said that Thom could not channel. However, the caveat to that is that it can be interpreted to mean that he can't channel NOW, and it is possible that he could learn.

 

I couldn't locate the related quote, but I thought it was about Thom's fight with the myrddraal in EotW. People were wondering if the blue flashes were related to Thom channeling. RJ at the tie said that Thom did not channel in his fight with the myrddraal. It wasn't worded in a way (that I remember) that Thom couldn't channel, just that he didn't channel in that fight.

 

It was quite a bit more than that...

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 25th, 1994

LOC Signing Report - Edward Liu (Paraphrased)

RJ said a man will not go mad or sick away if he never channeled. Thus, he agreed that a male channeler who could be taught to channel (as opposed to having the inborn ability) and has never channeled would not die from the taint. BUT, when I asked him if he ever intended to make people think that Thom could channel, he said no. I brought up the hereditary point (i.e., Owyn) but he said just because your parents have a particular gene doesn't mean you'll receive that particular gene. Also he made a point that Owyn was his nephew so therefore not necessarily very similar gene-wise. When I pressed him again on it, he said (I'm quoting) "There is no way in hell Thom can channel." All he offered for explanations is that Thom is a "mysterious man." Enough said.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 25th, 1994

LOC Signing Report - Tony Zbaraschuk (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Can Thom Merrilin channel?

ROBERT JORDAN

Absolutely not. I never intended anyone to think he could.

 

 

 

 

[Pinzarn]

Well, there you go. Thanks Suttree.

[Barid Bel Medar]

My own opinion is that it rules out Thom from being able to learn to channel at all, however, the quotes don't exactly rule it out. They just say that Thom cannot and has not been channelling.

 

A learner would show no signs of being able to channel, so it's technically possible.

[Durinax]

I think Thoms WT viewing was reference to the names that Moiraine promised him

[Valley of Death]

i think its too late in the books for any of the big characters to start channelling

[skyfoo]

I agree with the logic presented here. These guys prob won't learn to channel. But doesn't it seem a little....unfortunate that these channeler/non-channeler pairings will proceed with disproportionate aging?

[Vassili]

Mat cannot channel now or ever; he is able to touch an a'dam without feeling pain. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Gawyn, Galad, or maybe even Lan is revealed to be able to learn at the end of the series. There is no time for them to develop the ability and use it in Tarmon Gaidon, but it could be a part of an epilogue. That way we can know characters like Nyneave and Egwene won't be widows most of their lives.

[wintermute]

I agree with the logic presented here. These guys prob won't learn to channel. But doesn't it seem a little....unfortunate that these channeler/non-channeler pairings will proceed with disproportionate aging?

 

Well, with Tarmon Gai'don coming, it's possible that at least some halfs of the pairings would die or perhaps be stilled (for channelers). That's one way to solve the problem LOL.

 

In a bigger sense, real life relationships that last 10 years are an achievement, and 50 years is pretty unusual. Are you really positing 300+ year relationships?

 

The timeframe of the WOT novels is really quite short, just a few years really, so all the main characters' romantic attachments are still fresh. Who's to say they won't fall out of love, etc, if things were allowed to run their course? It's going to be harsh for those who are Warder-bonded, but hey them's the risks of workplace dating :p

[driedraspberry]

 

Mat cannot channel now or ever; he is able to touch an a'dam without feeling pain. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Gawyn, Galad, or maybe even Lan is revealed to be able to learn at the end of the series. There is no time for them to develop the ability and use it in Tarmon Gaidon, but it could be a part of an epilogue. That way we can know characters like Nyneave and Egwene won't be widows most of their lives.

 

 

This. I don't think it'll be a main or anyone that will cause a stir in the story. A warder to his channeler love interest though could work. Especially if AS and AM end on a good note.

 

Gawyn is the most likely I'd say. He has genetics on his side, plus fulfillment of the happy endings the mains will have. Perhaps his jealousy of Rand has been foreshadowing. I know female channelers supposedly gravitate to one another (Avi and Eggs), maybe it has the opposite effect for men. Rand did seem to get particularly agitated around other male channelers.

 

Lan doesn't have the genetics in his favor, but Nyn's happiness is at stake. And I think she'd be lonelier than Eggs without her SO. But I'll be shocked if he survives.

 

There would be too many ramifications for Galad. It's too late in the game to introduce a twist like that.

Edited November 28, 2012 by driedraspberry

[Aulduron]

As a warder, Thom is already connected to the tower.

 

I believe it's too late in the stories for it to happen now, but I always had my eye on Tam or Lan being able to learn, because they used the void.

[Leyrann]

 

If we were to dismiss the thematic unlikeliness of any of these characters to start channeling and look at the math,

Gawyn and Mat would be the strongest cases to make out of the two since they both share a sibling who can channel. That said, knowing that the "channeling gene" is a recessive, even if you were to look at it as a simple pairing of a single gene inherited from the parents:

 

Channeling gene: "c": Dominant "C" inability to channel, recessive "c" ability -- ability to channel manifests with "cc" pairing

Two carrier parents: Cc -- Cc

Possible offspring gene combinations: CC, Cc, Cc, cc

 

there'd be a 25% chance of each child inheriting the (cc) twin recessive genes. It's a 1 in 16 chance in this scenario for two siblings to both inherit the ability to channel.

 

Now, obviously it isn't as simple as that since there's also differences between "sparkers" and "learners" and channeling is also tied to the soul. It simply hasn't been explained further than that; for instance, are there more than one gene that controls channeling ability? And how do you quantify the ties of channeling ability to the "soul?"

 

That said, the genetic possibility for Mat or Gawyn to have inherited the ability to channel is there and not out of the realm of possibility. I highly doubt we'll ever delve into it within the context of the series, however.

Actually that way of looking at genetic inheritance is not supported anywhere anymore. It's completely wrong aproach and was deviced before generic inheritance was understood. So you could actually dissregard it compleatly since it has no bearing at all on anything. =)

 

The way genetic inheritance happens is a much more complex procedure. Don't ask me about the chance of one of them being a chaneller though since I have no idea of how you actually should calculate it.

 

 

That is, in fact, wrong. While it's not always this easy, there ARE things (eye color, for example) that are like this. And I know this for sure, as I am currently learning all such things at school.

 

Also, I'd like it if Galad can channel. After all, he has a half-brother (Rand) and a half-sister (Elayne) that both can channel.

[Shomofo]

I am not sure about the Genetic thing as bearing in mind both Adeleas and Vandene can both channel and they are siblings.

[Sharaman]

RJ set up a fudge by saying a channeler soul was also required. So the genetics isn't enough.

[elric]

i would enjoy seeing Galad discovered as Channeler :)

 

it seem like a nice ending to his endavour to re-educate his idiots :)

 

progress so fer : work with channeler to save the world -> talk BEFORE you charge -> work with ppl who have strange abilities ->check if a person is guilty or not BEFORE you judge-> accept healing from channeler -> work UNDER ppl with strange abilities -> Galad as channeler: have a channeler as yoyr commander.

 

also i dont think there more deserving Char to get such power , he is by far the most Ethic char in the book :)

 

btw if Galad could channel what Aja u think is best for him.

i'm torn between Grey (as judge more then diplomat) or Green

[Barid Bel Medar]

I would think Galad would be White Ajah, logical and "the right thing to do" to the core. 

[Sharaman]

Worth recalling that the actual time period of AMoL wont be very long. It takes maybe months (?) of training for a new channeler to develop control and use the OP usefully. So even if there are potential channelers around above, they won't influence the AMOL action with their channeling.