Combat Skills; Egwene vs. Nynaeve (no ter/sa angreal)

[Entreri]

"RJ reiterated that men were stronger than women by a couple of levels, including Lanfear"

 

 

Thanks a lot Barid. I may have actually won some money.  :(

[Nightstrike]

I prefer the quotes that aren't paraphrased and that say roughly the same thing:

 

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

 

 

For Infested Templar, two women linking have slightly less of saidar available to them than the two women would have individually. But it can be used much, much more precisely, and therefore more effectively, than they could manage working merely as partners. The reduction also occurs for men entering a circle. One man in a circle means that only the amount of saidin that he can handle, less the reduction for being in a circle, is available. Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.

 

Nothing about it says a weaker woman will always defeat a stronger one regardless of whether they're duelling champs or not.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I don't know if this confirms that all of the male Forsaken are stronger than Lanfear. I can't say in the case of Rhavin - although I would guess he is more powerful. 

 

It does however, confirm that she is not the 2nd strongest Forsaken in terms of Power. Aginor is just as strong as LTT and Ishamael, and Demandred is only one step behind, so they are at least at a higher level. 

[Entreri]

As for the strongest man vs. the strongest woman in combat, the man would still have a large advantage due to being stronger. 

 

This is clearly shown when RJ stated that if LTT had taken over, Lanfear would have been toast at the docks.   Rand is of couse nowhere near his full strength in FoH, but the men are several levels above the females. Clearly showing that deftness does not play as large a role in combat as strength.

 

As for Rahvin, his strength was such that Moghdien commented on it and was terrified by it.  I would wager money on this then...Rahvin's OP strength > Lanfear's OP strength.   Given that Rahvin stated that either he or Sammael would overwhelm Lanfear, I am very confident this was an accurate assessment and not driven by ego. 

[Knivy]

The quote is a general statement, and while in general a woman is more dexterous than a man, it isn't impossible to have an extremely dexterous man as an outlier.  LTT seems to be an all around excellent channeler, and I dont find it inconceivable that he was on the level of a woman's dexterity. 

 

However, I don't agree with this interpretation  of the strength vs. dexterity quote.

[Emily_Sedai]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the record, I do not. Saying something over and over again does you no favors, to borrow one of your lines If you repeat an opinion often enough, it still does not become fact (about ignoring words.) Along the same line, you could have said that my opinion makes no sense TO YOU. You do not nor ever will decide what makes sense for me or for others. If you really want to do that, go join a priesthood and tell others how to think and interpret words. I believe my opinion makes sense, and again, I apologize if you don't like that. I've explained my position on the issue and what I feel was the main reason for Tal's victory, and others apparently feel similarly.

I don't speak for Suttree, but if I say an opinion makes no sense, I mean something different to it makes no sense to me. You might think it makes sense. That doesn't make it so. 

Which highlights the quite obvious inherent flaw in Emily's post. Stop making sense Mr Ares, there is no place for that in this thread. Far easier to just liken someone to a religious zealot if they poke holes in your line of reasoning.

A quote that people should bear in mind when brining up their opinion: "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No-one is entitled to be ignorant."

QFT  

Well, I'd like to stop making sense, but it really isn't in my nature.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the record, I do not. Saying something over and over again does you no favors, to borrow one of your lines If you repeat an opinion often enough, it still does not become fact (about ignoring words.) Along the same line, you could have said that my opinion makes no sense TO YOU. You do not nor ever will decide what makes sense for me or for others. If you really want to do that, go join a priesthood and tell others how to think and interpret words. I believe my opinion makes sense, and again, I apologize if you don't like that. I've explained my position on the issue and what I feel was the main reason for Tal's victory, and others apparently feel similarly.

I don't speak for Suttree, but if I say an opinion makes no sense, I mean something different to it makes no sense to me. You might think it makes sense. That doesn't make it so.

  

Which highlights the quite obvious inherent flaw in Emily's post. Stop making sense Mr Ares, there is no place for that in this thread. Far easier to just liken someone to a religious zealot if they poke holes in your line of reasoning.

A quote that people should bear in mind when brining up their opinion: "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No-one is entitled to be ignorant."

QFT

 

  

 

Again, you make the same mistake that if you somehow declare 'It makes no sense!,' then *whom*, it doesn't.  Just because you view something that way, does not make it so.  For the love of light.

 

Since you liked my relating you to a religious zealot:  if interpretation and opinion is so clear cut, why are people still arguing over one of the most read and most studied books in history, the bible.  Why is there no clear cut 'the bible says this, so do this.'  Why is there such a difference between sects of Christianity? 

 

I have degrees too.  I whole bunch of them in truth, and have taken many classes in various universities dealing with written works and other forms of information.  So far as my experience goes, most professors don't care about your position as well as it is reasoned out.  Person A and person B in the class may reach different conclussions based on the same text, it doesn't mean either is 'wrong.'  It's up for others to decide which opinion that they feel has a stronger basis, it is not person A to go tell person B that their interpretation is wrong and has no worth. 

Wrong. Person A and person B have every right to declare that the position of the other makes no sense. Unless they can offer solid justification of it, then it has little weight, but they can still say it regardless. Like when people disagree with me - they have a right to do so, but their opinions, by virtue of not being as well reasoned or as well presented as mine, will invariably end up being worth less than mine.

 

 

 

 

 

blah, blah, blah

Whole bunch of defensive words to avoid the obvious point and flaw in your thiniking...

 Mr Ares

 

 

I don't speak for Suttree, but if I say an opinion makes no sense, I mean something different to it makes no sense to me. You might think it makes sense. That doesn't make it so.

 

 

So far as my experience goes, most professors don't care about your position as well as it is reasoned out.

The bolded beng key and I would change that to "well reasoned out". See the problem now?

Lighten up Emily, the debate is all in good fun.

 

Edit: Lastly nothing about the dexterity is still being discussed. Even those such as BFG(if you want to point me to somene else that says what Talaan did does not take dexterity feel free to show me what I missed)  that see the wrestling angle agree it would take dexterity to actually make it happen. Dexterity that Nyn could not keep up with. Your own example backed you into a corner here.

 

  

 

Alrighty, I decree that your reasoning makes no sense.  You might think it makes sense to you, but I have decided that it does not.  Ha ha.  That would be the flaw in Mr. Ares assertion.  I can see a world built upon that right now..  a child sitting in a classroom learing that in our main math system, 2 + 2 = 4.  The child tenatively holds up her hand and says "Ms. Teacher, that doesn't make any sense!'  The children all around her say the same thing.  It doesn't make any sense!  The teacher explains why it does, but the children all say at once: 'just because it makes sense to you, doesn't make it so!' 

That's not a flaw in my assertion. There is a difference between "it makes no sense" and "it makes no sense to me." People can use both of them wrongly. Merely asserting that someone is isn't enough.

 

To give another logic lesson:  I don't view the US victory in WWII as a matter of the people's desire to serve their country, but rather of the US manufacturing capabilities. 

 

From this line, would you draw the conclussion that I think the people's desire to serve their country played no part in the US winning WWII?

I would draw the conclusion that you need to study history more closely - the Russians did more to win the war than the Yanks.

 

 

 

There is no guarantee that Rahvin was correct in his assessment - the Chosen do lie to themselves over strength, and unless he had linked with her it would be difficult for a man to accurately gauge a woman's strength. The books and the BWB both state that Lanfear was second strongest, with only Ishamael being stronger (although Aginor seems to be about as strong, given that he's the second strongest man, and vies with Lanfear for second strongest over all).

Lanfear the second strongest? Really? With men having "several" power rand above women, it's obvious that in sheer power the odds of no other forsaken male ding above the 21 of lanfear are extremely slim.

The books don't state that lanfear was the 2nd strongest, but that it was said she was 2nd to Lewis and isshy in power. You see the subtle difference? This sucks from my iPad, ill post more from my rig in a few, because I'm sure you're going to twist words and refute this while claiming the forsaken lied to themselves.

So you have nothing to actually refute my point. The BWB confirms it, although I can't quote that as I don't have a copy. And given the rarity of channelers at those sorts of strengths (men being stronger than Graendal are rare, for example), why, with such a small sample size, is it so unreasonable to think that no man amongst the Chosen save Ishamael is stronger than Lanfear, and only Aginor matches her? And we do have a quote from RJ saying that they lie to themselves. We have no reason to believe Rahvin's assessment. No corroborating evidence.

 

*snort*. Sooooo the US didn't win WW2? Well, you could draw the conclusion about studying more history IF I had said the US won the war for the Allies or was the major contributor. I didn't.

[Entreri]

The quote is a general statement, and while in general a woman is more dexterous than a man, it isn't impossible to have an extremely dexterous man as an outlier.  LTT seems to be an all around excellent channeler, and I dont find it inconceivable that he was on the level of a woman's dexterity. 

 

However, I don't agree with this interpretation  of the strength vs. dexterity quote.

 

Then Aginor would also have to be an extermely dexterous man, since he went blow to blow with LTT.  Aginor would be slightly above LTT in dexterity.

 

Ishamael would have to be right there, given he battled him several times and while losing, we never hear of LTT's extremely dexterous nature (only about his strength from any of the men or women Forsaken).  And of course Moridin is ready to battle him again. 

 

Then we have to think that Demandred would have to be extremely dexterous man as well, given he is a hair less than LTT. 

 

So it appears that the strongest men are extermely dexterous as well..

 

Then one comes to the same conclusion, the strongest man (LTT) would still very easily overwhelm the strongest woman (Lanfear).  And even men who are not the strongest would also easily overwhelm Lanfear.

[Knivy]

 

The quote is a general statement, and while in general a woman is more dexterous than a man, it isn't impossible to have an extremely dexterous man as an outlier.  LTT seems to be an all around excellent channeler, and I dont find it inconceivable that he was on the level of a woman's dexterity. 

 

However, I don't agree with this interpretation  of the strength vs. dexterity quote.

 

Then Aginor would also have to be an extermely dexterous man, since he went blow to blow with LTT.  Aginor would be slightly above LTT in dexterity.

 

Ishamael would have to be right there, given he battled him several times and while losing, we never hear of LTT's extremely dexterous nature (only about his strength from any of the men or women Forsaken).  And of course Moridin is ready to battle him again. 

 

Then we have to think that Demandred would have to be extremely dexterous man as well, given he is a hair less than LTT. 

 

So it appears that the strongest men are extermely dexterous as well..

 

Then one comes to the same conclusion, the strongest man (LTT) would still very easily overwhelm the strongest woman (Lanfear).  And even men who are not the strongest would also easily overwhelm Lanfear.

 

 

That is taking it a step too far...  Did they ever fight LTT head to head?  They fought Rand for sure, but thats not the same as LTT.

[Mr Ares]

 

 

To give another logic lesson:  I don't view the US victory in WWII as a matter of the people's desire to serve their country, but rather of the US manufacturing capabilities. 

 

From this line, would you draw the conclussion that I think the people's desire to serve their country played no part in the US winning WWII?

I would draw the conclusion that you need to study history more closely - the Russians did more to win the war than the Yanks.

*snort*. Sooooo the US didn't win WW2? Well, you could draw the conclusion about studying more history IF I had said the US won the war for the Allies or was the major contributor. I didn't.

No, you merely attributed the victory to the USA's manufacturing capabilities, first and foremost. Your words are clear - they support the conclusion I have drawn. You say US victory is a matter of US manufacturing capabilities - not the Red Army drawing off the vast majority of the German forces.

 

As for what else has been said, the BWB contains elements of unreliability, but unless and until it is shown to be wrong on a particular point, then it should be considered accurate, as the majority of its information is correct. And there is nothing to say that Lanfear is not the second strongest Chosen. So if there is nothing to say she isn't and something to say she is, then what conclusion should be drawn from the evidence?

[fionwe1987]

Graendal let her Illusion fade and stood golden-haired as he, as fair as she had been dark. "If you call me that again, I will kill you." Her voice held even less expression than her face. She meant it. The watcher tensed. If she tried, one of the two would die. Should he interfere? Black flecks sped across his eyes, faster, faster...

 

The watcher smiled crookedly behind his fancloth skulker's mask. Nae'blis. That explained what had brought Graendal to heel, what had stayed her from killing Sammael.

 

According to Rahvin, he and Sammael are equally strong. According to him, he can overwhelm Lanfear. Graendal is weaker than Lanfear by two levels. She has no qualms openly threatening Sammael. When she does, Moridin's opinion is that the fight may go either way. He later says the only think that stayed her hand from killing Sammael was his claim that he had been offered the post of Nae'blis. Not his "greater" strength. 

 

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.

 

This is not paraphrased, but straight from RJ's blog. Not the fact that it isn't just that the strongest woman can basically do every thing the strongest man can, she can do so to the same degree. That right there defeats the argument that Rahvin can overwhelm Lanfear.

 

 

[Nightstrike]

 

 If she tried, one of the two would die. Should he interfere? Black flecks sped across his eyes, faster, faster...

 

The watcher smiled crookedly behind his fancloth skulker's mask. Nae'blis. That explained what had brought Graendal to heel, what had stayed her from killing Sammael.

According to Rahvin, he and Sammael are equally strong. According to him, he can overwhelm Lanfear. Graendal is weaker than Lanfear by two levels. She has no qualms openly threatening Sammael. When she does, Moridin's opinion is that the fight may go either way. He later says the only think that stayed her hand from killing Sammael was his claim that he had been offered the post of Nae'blis. Not his "greater" strength.

Sammael was probably stronger than Rahvin. Moridin's opinion was that one of the two would kill the other, so he might not know the specific chances. If he does not know for sure, then he might have guessed 50/50 or 60/40, but maybe there's 30/70 or something else? Also, you don't need to be stronger or more skilled to kill someone, just more ruthless. Moiraine could kill Be'lal, and so long as they can kill, then they can kill anyone.

 

TFOH (Prologue) … Snatching at saidin, he filled himself with the Power … Linked to saidin as tightly as Rahvin – this close Rahvin could feel it dimly – Sammael eyed him warily… Then he sensed Sammael gathering the Power…

 

 

TFOH (Prologue) … “I did not want to launch a frontal assault against superior forces.” “Is he really so strong?” Rahvin asked quietly. “This Rand al’Thor. Could he have overwhelmed you face-to-face?” Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael

 

---Lanfear didn't want to launch a frontal assault against superior forces.

 

 

 

This is not paraphrased, but straight from RJ's blog. Not the fact that it isn't just that the strongest woman can basically do every thing the strongest man can, she can do so to the same degree. That right there defeats the argument that Rahvin can overwhelm Lanfear.

"Just about" ... He said they can do just about the same things.

[fionwe1987]

 

Sammael was probably stronger than Rahvin. Moridin's opinion was that one of the two would kill the other, so he might not know the specific chances. If he does not know for sure, then he might have guessed 50/50 or 60/40, but maybe there's 30/70 or something else?

 

He's not sure which would kill the other, but he also makes clear it was Granedal decision to "stay her hand". He's saying what is blindingly obvious. When two of the Foresaken enter into direct conflict, there's always an element of randomness. That doesn't take away from the fact that Granedal could have killed him, and there is no reading of that quote that implies Sammael had any sort of advantage over her. And if you seriously want to sit here and argue Rahvin was perfectly right in his assessment of himself, but Moridin was wrong about Sammael and Graendal...

TFOH (Prologue) … Snatching at saidin, he filled himself with the Power … Linked to saidin as tightly as Rahvin – this close Rahvin could feel it dimly – Sammael eyed him warily… Then he sensed Sammael gathering the Power…

 

 

TFOH (Prologue) … “I did not want to launch a frontal assault against superior forces.” “Is he really so strong?” Rahvin asked quietly. “This Rand al’Thor. Could he have overwhelmed you face-to-face?” Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael

 

---Lanfear didn't want to launch a frontal assault against superior forces.

Except, of course, she did exactly that in the end of this book. Heck, in the previous book, she went up to Rand, told him she was Lanfear, then shielded him! How is that not a frontal  assault on superior forces? Lanfear was spooking Sammal and Rahvin here. This entire meeting was her setup to have Rand target one of them and kill them. She was making sure they would hesitate to attack him, in the meantime. 

 

 

 

 

This is not paraphrased, but straight from RJ's blog. Not the fact that it isn't just that the strongest woman can basically do every thing the strongest man can, she can do so to the same degree. That right there defeats the argument that Rahvin can overwhelm Lanfear.

"Just about" ... He said they can do just about the same things.

 

Yes. What he did not say was that men can do everything women can, but women can only do "just about" everything men can. Are there likely to be come things men can do better? Yes. Are there likely to be some things women do better? Again yes.

 

Are there likely to be some things only men can do? We know that their way to Travel, sensing women channel and drawing heat from a fire are unique to men. But we also know there are some things only women can do, which includes their way of Traveling, linking, sensing other women's strength, etc. 

 

So when RJ said women can do just about anything men can, he was referring to those well known differences. This doesn't mean that the reverse isn't true as well, or that women are somehow inferior channelers. They're different, but equal.

[Nightstrike]

Except, of course, she did exactly that in the end of this book. Heck, in the previous book, she went up to Rand, told him she was Lanfear, then shielded him! How is that not a frontal  assault on superior forces? Lanfear was spooking Sammal and Rahvin here. This entire meeting was her setup to have Rand target one of them and kill them. She was making sure they would hesitate to attack him, in the meantime. 

I would say you're misintepreting that, but even if you'd been right she would still claim he was superior to her.  He may not have reached his full potential, but she said it and the others accepted her words. She attacked him and he could have killed her then, which means she wasn't acting rationally (or else may have known about his weakness with female opponents).

 

 

Are there likely to be some things only men can do? We know that their way to Travel, sensing women channel and drawing heat from a fire are unique to men. But we also know there are some things only women can do, which includes their way of Traveling, linking, sensing other women's strength, etc. 

 

So when RJ said women can do just about anything men can, he was referring to those well known differences. This doesn't mean that the reverse isn't true as well, or that women are somehow inferior channelers. They're different, but equal.

 

Yes, they're different. Different strengths give them different chances in a duel, for instance. The strongest women can do just about the same, but there are differences too.

[Maleshub]

Regarding Lanfear's claim to Rahvin and Sammael that she didn't want to to attack LTT, it was a ruse to further her plan to rule the world with LTT and challenge the DO and Creator with the CK. And we cannot forget that Lanfear had an angreal that made her much stronger than Rand with his little fat man. She knew that she could best him face to face. But she only attacked him when he spurned her a second time.

 

Funny, I always thought that Aviendha should have died in that scene. Lanfear wasn't dumb enough to miss which of the two was the Aiel.

[Durinax]

Regarding Lanfear's claim to Rahvin and Sammael that she didn't want to to attack LTT, it was a ruse to further her plan to rule the world with LTT and challenge the DO and Creator with the CK. And we cannot forget that Lanfear had an angreal that made her much stronger than Rand with his little fat man. She knew that she could best him face to face. But she only attacked him when he spurned her a second time.

 

Funny, I always thought that Aviendha should have died in that scene. Lanfear wasn't dumb enough to miss which of the two was the Aiel.

yeah especially with her seeing Avi in his dreams

[fionwe1987]

And we cannot forget that Lanfear had an angreal that made her much stronger than Rand with his little fat man. She knew that she could best him face to face. But she only attacked him when he spurned her a second time.

We also need to remember that she didn't know she would find the angreal, and therefore the angreal could have played no part in her estimating whether she could face him.

[Nightstrike]

Yeah, well, she couldn't face him but did it anyway, unless she was aware of his weakness with female opponents.

[Maleshub]

 

Regarding Lanfear's claim to Rahvin and Sammael that she didn't want to to attack LTT, it was a ruse to further her plan to rule the world with LTT and challenge the DO and Creator with the CK. And we cannot forget that Lanfear had an angreal that made her much stronger than Rand with his little fat man. She knew that she could best him face to face. But she only attacked him when he spurned her a second time.

 

Funny, I always thought that Aviendha should have died in that scene. Lanfear wasn't dumb enough to miss which of the two was the Aiel.

yeah especially with her seeing Avi in his dreams

 

 

 

 

True! She saw the faces of Rand's three women! And I would have wagered a gold crown that one of the questions Kadere managed to answer before his skin was peeled off was: "What does she look like?"

 

 

 

And we cannot forget that Lanfear had an angreal that made her much stronger than Rand with his little fat man. She knew that she could best him face to face. But she only attacked him when he spurned her a second time.

We also need to remember that she didn't know she would find the angreal, and therefore the angreal could have played no part in her estimating whether she could face him.

 

 

 

 

Even without the angreal, she could have had him. At the time, Rand's strength was on level with Asmodean, the weakest male Foresaken.

[shortkut]

 

 

 

 

 

Nyn has dexterity, it is how she is good with healing.

You do realize it is possible to have dexterity in an area of talent and not in general channeling correct short?

yes i do. Many people do not seem to realize that nynaeve is a very dexterous weaver herself and as of the time of her being raised, become better with other aspects of the power from when cads made her observation

[fionwe1987]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nyn has dexterity, it is how she is good with healing.

You do realize it is possible to have dexterity in an area of talent and not in general channeling correct short?

yes i do. Many people do not seem to realize that nynaeve is a very dexterous weaver herself 

You must forgive them, becuase the books say otherwise, and most people believe the books. Weird, right?

[Suttree]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nyn has dexterity, it is how she is good with healing.

You do realize it is possible to have dexterity in an area of talent and not in general channeling correct short?

yes i do. Many people do not seem to realize that nynaeve is a very dexterous weaver herself and as of the time of her being raised, become better with other aspects of the power from when cads made her observation

Sorry then what I responded to didn't seem to suggest that as you can see by what I quoted. As for the Cads quote a fair amount of evidence including an RJ statement at KoD, Nyn's own admission on her shortcomings and examples of her having a "rough hand" outside of healing have been given. We are still waiting for examples of her being dexterous in general channeling(not healing/delving) however. Since you seem pretty sure perhaps you could provide them?

[shortkut]

The only person we saw be dexterous in a way that had their weaves move in a sneaky manner was talaan. We've never seen eggy do that. The only example of eggy being dexterous was her splitting and controlling many weaves at a time. Nynaeve had done that. She was doing that constantly in her testing

[Suttree]

The only person we saw be dexterous in a way that had their weaves move in a sneaky manner was talaan. We've never seen eggy do that. The only example of eggy being dexterous was her splitting and controlling many weaves at a time. Nynaeve had done that. She was doing that constantly in her testing

You seem to be moving the goal post a bit but regardless Eggy split the weaves in that scene a also juggled multiple balls which is said to be as difficult as juggling in real life. Further there have been many other examples in the text of her dexterity some given in this thread. So no, that is not by any means the only example.

 

As for the testing Nyn split her weaves 14 ways(which still wouldn't take into account the muddling influence of forkroot)? Ill have to go back and read it but many people have shown concrete examples why "memorizing" the hundred weaves in an off handed manner does not all of a sudden make you extremely talented in all areas. Again Nyn herself admits her shortcomings and that quote has been provided. I have to go back to requesting you provide quotes as many have done here. There is far too much opinion being stated as you seemed to realize with your firs post. Cheers.

[Nightstrike]

It's not easy to shield someone much stronger than yourself (who's also embracing saidar), so beyond being able to divide your flows into 2 or 3, it won't matter for Egwene. Maybe not even into 2? Moiriane was able to divide her flows more than the other AS in New Spring, and the stronger ones outdo her ability, so it's likely dependant upon strength. As in, the stronger you are the likelier it is you can divide your flows even further. Rand is a man, and even he can divide his flows more than most Aes Sedai.

[MasterAblar]

The problem I've always had with strength and dexterity, is that strength is so much easier to measure. You're strong, you're really strong, you're somewhat strong, you're kind of weak, you're really weak, you're pathetic, you're Morgase, and so on. It's quantitative.

 

Dexterity? How do you measure that? It's just more complicated to judge. While there are arguments about exactly how strong certain characters are, I think we've more or less figured out approximately where they stand. But as for how dexterious they are, we really have no idea. Individually I mean. How dexterious is Rand? Nyneave? Lanfear? Sammael? Egwene? Ishamael? Flinn? Verin? Sorilea? Talaan? Asha'man#458? Aes Sedai#283? Wise One#5784? And what is more, how do they compare to each other? Strength is easy to compare, we've got a ton of information from the books, and even from the author on how strong characters are? We have pretty much nothing on dexterity (which is kind of ironic I think, considering most of the channelling characters in the books are women, and dexterity is supposed to be their advantage). And that's because dexterity is harder to determine. Women can sense each other's strength just by being around each other, and even men can determine the approximate strength of another man holding the power. For dexterity you have to see the other's weaves and then determine by how sharp or well woven, or pretty, or whatever the hell it is that dexterity means precisely. So like I said much more complicated process. Unless someones dexterity strength is directly linked to how strong they are.

 

I know this doesn't actually answer anyone's questions, but it was on my mind, so I figured I might as well put it out there.