Combat Skills; Egwene vs. Nynaeve (no ter/sa angreal)

[Durinax]

I have been thinking about this for a while and I think that Nynaeve would be more of an threat than Egwene in a fight.

 

I base this on 2 things, Nynaeves adaptiveness evidented by when she captures Mogh by swallowing her pride and coming up with quite the clever attack, and through her AS test we see her manipulating the 1000 weaves to destroy what was sent against her. The second part being that she can also attack blunt as Perrins Hammer, not to mention her obvious strength over Egwene.

 

The advantages that Egwene has is that she has actual combat training (Seanchan episode) and more extensive training in TAR (which she failed to use during the ToM section until Amys (?), then Perrin reminded her that the mind is more powerful there). But alas I do not think that Egwene is as adaptive as Nynaeve is,

[Luckers]

I dunno, it's been shown Egwene has considerable dexterity which can be vitally important in a fight (a point made, ironically, in the scene where Nynaeve and Talaan duel). Nynaeve is quite cunning though, which lends its own worth.

 

I reckon Egwene in the end.

[SylvanFox]

Assuming the fight is not in TAR, I'd say Nyn. She's got more raw power, and she's pretty good at figuring out how to do things with the power now that she knows how to use it.

[Luckers]

Oh yeah just realised that with her ter'angreal--no contest. Nynaeve.

[Durinax]

uhm lets go no ter/sa angreal, just woman vs woman.

[Barid Bel Medar]

In a duel, as things stand, I would say Nynaeve because of her strength advantage and she has much more experience in OP duels. Egwene is good at blowing things apart, but most of her arc is political and her fighting is mostly blowing things up. Nynaeve has fought more OP battles with Mogghedien the BA etc..

 

I think that given the same amount of experience, Egwene could probably beat her. Like Rand, she is more suited to destructive weaves, Nynaeve is a healer, but as of ToM ending, she doesn't have that much experience with this type of thing, so with Nynaeve's large power advantage, she takes it.

 

Like we see with Alivia, the Seanchan destructive training isn't that good against another channeller. There is relatively little defensive power. So Egwene could win hypothetically if she struck hard and fast, but if that didn't work, we haven't yet seen her defensive capabilities.

 

I am sure that she has them, and we will see it in aMoL, but going off what we have actually seen, I'd have to say Nynaeve.

 

Edit: and if Nynaeve was angry, well, nobody stands a chance.

 

Nynaeve in a OP fight, but Egwene for taking out Shadowspawn and other non-channelling things.

[Maleshub]

Nynaeve: she defeated a Foresaken in a duel (before reaching her full potential).

[GB]

i vote nynaeve, even though she is not as skilled with the destructives weaves, she is stronger in sheer power level and also can adapt quite easily, against Suian, Mo, gray man and BA.

 

just a side question how many flows can egwene and nynaeve divide their power into ?

[Sid]

I have to say Nyneave, due to her being three levels above Egwene in strength (from the list on Thirteenth Depository). Unless one party is taken by surprise initially, much of the 'battle' involves cutting the other off from the True Source. Both being adept and inventive channelers with a stubborn streak a mile wide, Nyneave could throw enough strength into shielding Egwene's link to the True Source that it would leave her no room to try anything else while defending against it. Nyneave would also have the luxury of being able to divert some weaves to counter any non-channeling attacks Egwene might try, such as running up and punching her in the face or throwing something, and still maintain enough to keep Egwene occupied OP wise.

 

Edit: reading "in a fight" I was thinking 1 on 1 dueling. If you mean in war, or a skirmish between several people (channelers or non), Egwene would likely be more useful due to her experience. Seanchan training, the war for Cairhien, the Seanchan raid on the WT, are all examples of her learning destructive weaves. Nyneave tends to show her prowess in duels, like vs. Moghedien, Ispan and Falion, or healing, like restoring Logain, the Cleansing, removing the taint of saidin from Naeff, etc.

 

So Nyneave would win out in a one on one fight, Egwene would be more effective on a battlefield.

[Wool-headed lummox]

What about Egwene vs Nynaeve, no One Power.

[BFG]

Nyn with the Power - no contest, as much as anything else she only has to see a weave once to be able to repeat it - based on how often this is mentioned with regards Nyn I'm assuming Eg can't do that, although her time with the WO will hav ehelped Eg with that.

 

Even on a battlefield I'd give Nyn the edge, Eg's big battle against the Seanchan was using the most powerful sa'angreal she had access to, without that she's likely to tire faster and her weaves will at best be equal strength - Eg is strong with fire and earth, but Nyn has good strength in all - 5 power healing, With Nyns extra strength, then even tho Eg is strong with earth I'd still give Nyn the edge. Additionally Nyn was the first to use (work out how to) balefire, she's learned from the battle against Rahvin in TAR...

 

No power - I'm not sure, I think Eg would remain calmer, thus I'd give her the edge - unless she insulted Lan :)

[avernite]

Without the power it's Nynaeve. She has a very nasty level of tenacity. Egwene might shrug off the pain/accept it and move in, Nynaeve would let it feed her anger. Useless when captive, where Egwene's method is better, but in a single fight?

 

 

With the power I also say Nynaeve. Apart from the power differential, She has experience being on the losing side of a duel then coming out ahead anyway, and plenty experience using balefire. I don't expect such a duel to end up as a balefire fest, but if it did... Plus all the things previously said.

[Hagazussa]

I vote on Nynaeve but it really depends, first off all when we have a mage duel where both parties are that powerful who get the initiative really matters allot. Also are they trying to kill one another, or just take one another down? In a shielding duel Nyn wins no doubt about it, she is stronger than Egwene by enough margins that if Nyn is not caught completely unaware then Egwene can forget to get a shield on her but Nyn can fairly easily shield Egwene, but if they are trying to kill one another, well we do know that Egwene makes some mighty fine fireballs, emphasis on mighty. Also are they attacking one another face to face or from a distance for Egwene can do some damage in the dream world. Egwene is more dexterous with the Power than Nyn the way I understand it and that count for something, but unless she catch Nynaeve completely unaware or can attack her though the dream world I do not think it would matter enough in a fight, Nyn's greater strength will be the deciding factor and she will win.

[Durinax]

I always though Nyn was more dextrous, since every time elayne or egwene comments on her healing they seem to lose track of what she is doing type thing.

[Hagazussa]

Yeah you might be right about that. Elayne at least wonders how Nyn can keep track of the flows in some of the weaves she makes, so she might be the most dexterous one, but that is just really one more indicator that Nyn would win in a fight between her and Egwene.

[Kathleen]

I think Nyn has the potential to win but I think her personal ties would make it hard. Egwene is always going by Nyn's charge in her mind. Maybe she would fight harder to stop her doing something Nyn thinks she shouldn't but to actually hurt/harm her would be emotionally hard for Nyn and since she is so emotionally attached I could see that holding her back from ever fully attacking Egwene with all she's got.

[damandred]

i think apart from nyn's raw power, the fact that she is such a ggifted healer could give her an edge. As we have seen with the BA and Sem, healing weaves tweaked can be quite nasty.

[Luckers]

People over-value strength in the power. Time and again it's been proven undecisive, but it's always the first-held position.

 

I always though Nyn was more dextrous, since every time elayne or egwene comments on her healing they seem to lose track of what she is doing type thing.

 

Mmm. Nynaeve's skill with heaing is stated again and again, but by the same note so too is her lack of skill with anything else. She mimics swiftly, and thus likely would have the dexterity if she tried to train it, but largely she has disdained that--again a fact stated again and again. She can repeat a weave without trying, and her skill with Healing is exemplary, but her general skill in weaving the Power is poor and under-developed.

[Nightstrike]

Nynaeve would defeat Moggy, and that's something Egwene would not succeed in (if the were given equal conditions).

[Luckers]

Nynaeve would defeat Moggy, and that's something Egwene would not succeed in (if the were given equal conditions).

 

Nynaeve matched Moghedien in an arm wrestle, strength to strength, both locked in to a degree that allowed nothing else. And yes, if such a scenario occurred Nynaeve would defeat Egwene, again based on nothing but brutal strength. But the question was combat skills, not a combat of brute strength such as what occured between Moghedien and Nynaeve--such things are rare and stupid. It occurred only because Moghedien underestimated the Third Ager and allowed herself to be drawn in to such a confrontation--in effect by the time she realised her stupidity her strength was commited. This is not something Egwene would allow to happen. Her methodology--the entire nature of her arc, including her face-down with Nynaeve--was to learn to attack with care and precision. Indeed, her face-down was the defining point were she realized this lesson.

 

 

Incidentally, we don't know that Nynaeve would defeat Moghedien in a duel. We've never seen those two match skills. Strength, yes. And cunning. Nynaeve matched in one and won in the other (and would likely win in both now). But skill? We've not seen them matched in that--its part of why I look forward to a confrontation between the two in aMoL (for Nynaeve to defeat her on the level).

[Kamin_Majere]

(if we are going off of an actual 1 on 1 battle with them having never known each other or deep hatred on both sides)

Nynaeve would win the 1 on 1 fight i think. Strength has a lot to do with those, and Nynaeve is simply to strong for Egwene to stand up to. Egwene is much more capable with channeling (she was able to easily handle 12-14 flows while Nynaeve was getting to her upper limit at 8-10) But with a battle like this the simplest way to end it (not counting them balefieing each other) is to shield/sever your opponent, and Nynaeve could do this with out much trouble due to the strength difference. Egwene would have nothing to spare to counter attack with and would have to focus her entire being into not being severed, where as Nynaeve could put the majority of her strength into the severing and still have a bit left out to pummel Egwene with air or fire or what ever.

 

(if we are going off a battle field situation where they are on opposite sides)

Egwene would win. Here the more you spin the more damage you do in sheer output. Egwene is insanely good at making multipule weaves and having been taught to kill with the power would really shine here

 

To put it in modern terms or war Egwene is a machine gun and Nynaeve is a sniper rifle. Both deadly, but each having a different place where they shine

In a war i would rather have Egwene by my side any day of the week, but in an assassination i would choose Nynaeve every time

[Nightstrike]

Nynaeve matched Moghedien in an arm wrestle, strength to strength, both locked in to a degree that allowed nothing else. And yes, if such a scenario occurred Nynaeve would defeat Egwene, again based on nothing but brutal strength. But the question was combat skills, not a combat of brute strength such as what occured between Moghedien and Nynaeve--such things are rare and stupid. It occurred only because Moghedien underestimated the Third Ager and allowed herself to be drawn in to such a confrontation--in effect by the time she realised her stupidity her strength was commited. This is not something Egwene would allow to happen. Her methodology--the entire nature of her arc, including her face-down with Nynaeve--was to learn to attack with care and precision. Indeed, her face-down was the defining point were she realized this lesson.

Talaan who's much stronger than Egwene was to try and shield Nynaeve, and that's what Nynaeve and Moggy did too. I think Nynaeve has become a fair bit stronger and much more skilled since she met one of the Forsaken blow for blow.

[Suttree]

As Luckers said people are greatly overestimating strength. Eggy is the more dexterous channeler and we know this about Nynaeve...

 

WH

The girl had good material in her, but her training had been cut far too short. Her ability with Healing was little short of miraculous, her ability with almost anything else dismal.

 

Edit: Nightstrike not sure what your point is about Talaan? Once she learned the trick of it she spanked Nynaeve.

[Nightstrike]

Who says dexterity is more important than strength in a duel? People in WoT aren't exactly known for exaggerating other people's skills and talents. WH was after she battled Moggy and before training with Talaan.

[Suttree]

Who says dexterity is more important than strength in a duel? People in WoT aren't exactly known for exaggerating other people's skills and talents. WH was after she battled Moggy and before training with Talaan.

 

No one has said that. What people have gotten wrong time and again is that strength is the only thing that matters which is quite obviously false. Further we have a direct quote that she is "dismal" with everything else aside from healing. Cads is someone who always calls it like she sees it. This is somewhat supported by the fact that as soon as Talaan learned the trick of it she was schooling Nyn.