The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases

[Sentinel78]

Berelain will most likely be adopted into the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings about her shaving her head.

I only remember one foreshadowing off hand, but that aside why would Berelain want to become part of the Seanchan? If she can get Galad to place the Children into Mayene, Mayene should be reasonably safe for a while no matter the Tairen politics. With the Children Mayene will be too strong for anything but an actual invasion.

 

Wait... why would the ruler of a city state want to become next in line for the Throne of an entire empire? Really?    

 

Maybe because she's most likely going to marry the leader of a group branded as rebels by the Seanchan.  Of course that might cause some decent drama and end their honeymoon

[Suttree]

@Centauri

 

What post are you referring to? Just went back a few pages and couldn't find anything. We need to make sure they stay to the proper threads.

 

Edit: you can't be referring to Sids remark can you?

[Terez]

Anyhow, 18 sounds to me like Selucia has been deposed, and Tuon brought under the influence of the dark side of the force, probably compulsed. 

 

The word is 'compelled'. She need not have been deposed or killed; I get the feeling her appointment was only temporary because it's not normal for your Voice to also be your Truthspeaker.

[fionwe1987]

Anyhow, 18 sounds to me like Selucia has been deposed, and Tuon brought under the influence of the dark side of the force, probably compulsed. 

 

The word is 'compelled'. She need not have been deposed or killed; I get the feeling her appointment was only temporary because it's not normal for your Voice to also be your Truthspeaker.

Tuon made clear that she would not remain Tuon's Voice. But her position as Truthspeaker is definite, and has been published among the Blood.

[Luckers]

Incidentally between KoD and TofM I had suggested Carlinya was intended to become Fortuona's Truthspeaker due to the imagery--Aes Sedai bound to speak the truth, as property to the Empress but property in a way that grants her authority equal to the highest of the blood and serving in a key role in advising the empire... Obviously Carlinya and her stylized raven image that Min thought was a tattoo got left by the wayside, but most of those points still fit in regards to an Aes Sedai assuming that position--especially with Fortuona apparently needing to reinforce that the woman is untouchabe.

[Sarlic]

@Centauri

What post are you referring to? Just went back a few pages and couldn't find anything. We need to make sure they stay to the proper threads.

Edit: you can't be referring to Sids remark can you?

 

I think he's referring to the post a few up that refers to the Mat chapter as "fan fiction." Sigh.

[fuzz1717]

Incidentally between KoD and TofM I had suggested Carlinya was intended to become Fortuona's Truthspeaker due to the imagery--Aes Sedai bound to speak the truth, as property to the Empress but property in a way that grants her authority equal to the highest of the blood and serving in a key role in advising the empire... Obviously Carlinya and her stylized raven image that Min thought was a tattoo got left by the wayside, but most of those points still fit in regards to an Aes Sedai assuming that position--especially with Fortuona apparently needing to reinforce that the woman is untouchabe.

On that topic, did we ever figure out what that viewing about Carlinya meant, seeing as she presumably died in the Battle in TAR (ToM 37)?

[b3arz3rg3r]

Anyhow, 18 sounds to me like Selucia has been deposed, and Tuon brought under the influence of the dark side of the force, probably compulsed. 

 

The word is 'compelled'. She need not have been deposed or killed; I get the feeling her appointment was only temporary because it's not normal for your Voice to also be your Truthspeaker.

 

 

 

 

 

I think I must be messing up some of the facts in my memory, because I seem to remember things differently from everyone else. For one about the nature of Voices and Truthspeakers. As I recall while many of the Blood call their Voices Truthspeakers the Blood misses the true meaning of the Truthspeakers which is why only the imperial family has real Truthspeakers. That means to me that Truthspeaker trumps Voice. So if anything Tuon would choose a new Voice not a new Truthspeaker.

 

 

 

Berelain will most likely be adopted into the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings about her shaving her head.

I only remember one foreshadowing off hand, but that aside why would Berelain want to become part of the Seanchan? If she can get Galad to place the Children into Mayene, Mayene should be reasonably safe for a while no matter the Tairen politics. With the Children Mayene will be too strong for anything but an actual invasion.

 

 

 

Wait... why would the ruler of a city state want to become next in line for the Throne of an entire empire? Really?    

 

 

 

Oh come on. Berelain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the heir to the Seanchan empire no matter what happens to Tuon. If Tuon dies the line of emperors back to Hawkwing is finished and whoever comes out on top in Seanchan will be the only one who can rebuilt the empire. Beslan has better chances than Berelain. So the question is why would the ruler of an independant city state give up her independance when there is no need? Unless the Children get wiped out she'll be able to protect Mayene from Tear with them.

 

 

I think both Egwene and Faile mentioned wanting to shave her head on seperate occassions. Not coming up with the third off the top of my head, maybe mentioned twice by Faile?

 

I only remembered Faile, but now that you say it I do recall Egwene being all bitchy because she couldn't stand that Berelain was more self-confident and better looking than she was.

 

 

 

Berelain will most likely be adopted into the Imperial Family. There are three separate foreshadowings about her shaving her head.

I only remember one foreshadowing off hand, but that aside why would Berelain want to become part of the Seanchan? If she can get Galad to place the Children into Mayene, Mayene should be reasonably safe for a while no matter the Tairen politics. With the Children Mayene will be too strong for anything but an actual invasion.

 

 

 

There are three, and Berelain is descended from Hawkwing. Why wouldn't she want to be part of the Seanchan, assuming certain concessions are made?

 

 

 

Don't know, perhaps because she has fought tooth and nail to keep Mayene independant as have her predecessors and if she subordinated herself to someone it should be for the good of Mayene. Shouldn't it?

[Barid Bel Medar]

There seems to be some misunderstanding regarding the restriction on the Brandon debate. 

 

We are preventing threads from being high-jacked and turning into a Brandon squabble. We are not purging every single post of any comments on Brandon's work if it is relevant to the topic. 

 

If that leads to the thread being high-jacked, then action will be taken. But it is absurd to think that every single comment on Brandon must be restricted to the appropriate threads.  

[fionwe1987]

Oh come on. Berelain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the heir to the Seanchan empire no matter what happens to Tuon. If Tuon dies the line of emperors back to Hawkwing is finished and whoever comes out on top in Seanchan will be the only one who can rebuilt the empire. Beslan has better chances than Berelain. So the question is why would the ruler of an independant city state give up her independance when there is no need? Unless the Children get wiped out she'll be able to protect Mayene from Tear with them.

 

Maybe you've forgotten, but Berelain is also descended from Hawkwing. Since the entire Imperial Family in Seandar was killed, Tuon is the only one remaining. If Berelain gets adopted into the Imperial Family, her descent from Hawkwing would put her First in Line to the throne. It would also give Mayene the protection of the Seanchan Empire, which is many many times what the Whitecloaks can offer (if they will offer at all, since Galad is not any kind of heriditary leader). 

[Sentinel78]

Oh come on. Berelain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the heir to the Seanchan empire no matter what happens to Tuon. If Tuon dies the line of emperors back to Hawkwing is finished and whoever comes out on top in Seanchan will be the only one who can rebuilt the empire. Beslan has better chances than Berelain. So the question is why would the ruler of an independant city state give up her independance when there is no need? Unless the Children get wiped out she'll be able to protect Mayene from Tear with them.

Maybe you've forgotten, but Berelain is also descended from Hawkwing. Since the entire Imperial Family in Seandar was killed, Tuon is the only one remaining. If Berelain gets adopted into the Imperial Family, her descent from Hawkwing would put her First in Line to the throne. It would also give Mayene the protection of the Seanchan Empire, which is many many times what the Whitecloaks can offer (if they will offer at all, since Galad is not any kind of heriditary leader). 

 

That goes back 1000 years.  Tuon's immediate family may have been wiped out, but Tuon and Berelain are as closely related as Rand and Elayne (Ishara vs. Hawkwing).  Also, what makes you think that Berelain is the only noble in Randland who can trace her roots back to Hawkwing?  She'd have to be the only one in Randland plus closer than anyone except Tuon, not to mention that becoming Empress is not necessarily dependent on being a Hawkwing descendant; people are raised to the Blood.

[herid]

Incidentally between KoD and TofM I had suggested Carlinya was intended to become Fortuona's Truthspeaker due to the imagery--Aes Sedai bound to speak the truth, as property to the Empress but property in a way that grants her authority equal to the highest of the blood and serving in a key role in advising the empire... Obviously Carlinya and her stylized raven image that Min thought was a tattoo got left by the wayside, but most of those points still fit in regards to an Aes Sedai assuming that position--especially with Fortuona apparently needing to reinforce that the woman is untouchabe.

On that topic, did we ever figure out what that viewing about Carlinya meant, seeing as she presumably died in the Battle in TAR (ToM 37)?

It's generally assumed that it means that Carlinya was killed by Black Ajah. I think that it more specifically means that she was killed by Alviarin.

[fionwe1987]

Oh come on. Berelain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the heir to the Seanchan empire no matter what happens to Tuon. If Tuon dies the line of emperors back to Hawkwing is finished and whoever comes out on top in Seanchan will be the only one who can rebuilt the empire. Beslan has better chances than Berelain. So the question is why would the ruler of an independant city state give up her independance when there is no need? Unless the Children get wiped out she'll be able to protect Mayene from Tear with them.

Maybe you've forgotten, but Berelain is also descended from Hawkwing. Since the entire Imperial Family in Seandar was killed, Tuon is the only one remaining. If Berelain gets adopted into the Imperial Family, her descent from Hawkwing would put her First in Line to the throne. It would also give Mayene the protection of the Seanchan Empire, which is many many times what the Whitecloaks can offer (if they will offer at all, since Galad is not any kind of heriditary leader). 

 

That goes back 1000 years.  Tuon's immediate family may have been wiped out, but Tuon and Berelain are as closely related as Rand and Elayne (Ishara vs. Hawkwing).  Also, what makes you think that Berelain is the only noble in Randland who can trace her roots back to Hawkwing?  She'd have to be the only one in Randland plus closer than anyone except Tuon, not to mention that becoming Empress is not necessarily dependent on being a Hawkwing descendant; people are raised to the Blood.

I'm claiming Berelain can gain the throne by her relationship to Tuon. I'm saying she can do so with her relationship to Hawkwing. And while there may be other descendants, she's the only one who can prove it.

[Terez]

Oh come on. Berelain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the heir to the Seanchan empire no matter what happens to Tuon. If Tuon dies the line of emperors back to Hawkwing is finished and whoever comes out on top in Seanchan will be the only one who can rebuilt the empire. Beslan has better chances than Berelain. So the question is why would the ruler of an independant city state give up her independance when there is no need? Unless the Children get wiped out she'll be able to protect Mayene from Tear with them.

Maybe you've forgotten, but Berelain is also descended from Hawkwing. Since the entire Imperial Family in Seandar was killed, Tuon is the only one remaining. If Berelain gets adopted into the Imperial Family, her descent from Hawkwing would put her First in Line to the throne. It would also give Mayene the protection of the Seanchan Empire, which is many many times what the Whitecloaks can offer (if they will offer at all, since Galad is not any kind of heriditary leader). 

 

That goes back 1000 years.  Tuon's immediate family may have been wiped out, but Tuon and Berelain are as closely related as Rand and Elayne (Ishara vs. Hawkwing).  Also, what makes you think that Berelain is the only noble in Randland who can trace her roots back to Hawkwing?  She'd have to be the only one in Randland plus closer than anyone except Tuon, not to mention that becoming Empress is not necessarily dependent on being a Hawkwing descendant; people are raised to the Blood.

 

Hawkwing's children and grandchildren were all killed. He only had one grandson who survived, and that grandson founded Mayene. If Tuon can raise Berelain to the Imperial Family it will help to maintain the legitimacy of the line, since Mayene's claims to descent are well known if not necessarily believed. (It was recorded that all of Hawkwing's descendants were killed within a few years of his death, but the evidence that the Firsts are descended from the daughter he sent to Shara is very strong.)

[b3arz3rg3r]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh come on. Berelain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the heir to the Seanchan empire no matter what happens to Tuon. If Tuon dies the line of emperors back to Hawkwing is finished and whoever comes out on top in Seanchan will be the only one who can rebuilt the empire. Beslan has better chances than Berelain. So the question is why would the ruler of an independant city state give up her independance when there is no need? Unless the Children get wiped out she'll be able to protect Mayene from Tear with them.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you've forgotten, but Berelain is also descended from Hawkwing. Since the entire Imperial Family in Seandar was killed, Tuon is the only one remaining. If Berelain gets adopted into the Imperial Family, her descent from Hawkwing would put her First in Line to the throne. It would also give Mayene the protection of the Seanchan Empire, which is many many times what the Whitecloaks can offer (if they will offer at all, since Galad is not any kind of heriditary leader).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I haven't forgotten I just regard it as irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

 

First, why would Tuon adopt Berelain as her heir? She doesn't even know the woman. Second, why do you think any Seanchan would accept her just because she claims to be descended from Hawkwing? Anyone could do that, there's not one ounce of proof. And even if there was any proof her relation to Hawkwing's family is 1,000 years old. Unless every empress or emperor in Seanchan always killed every last one of his or her siblings or prevented them from ever having children of their own there are quite a few others around who have far better claims than some woman who rules a city.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know, do you think that the Seanchan are brainless robots incapable of having ambitions of their own? The idea that they would make some completely random foreign woman their empress just because she has the name Paendrag would demand all of them to be utterly brainless.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Sorry for the messy post somehow the quote function and the edit function seem to be in the fritz and I can't clean it up

[DaoineSidhe]

It doesn't seem very feasible, but I kind of like the idea of Nynaeve.  She is the only female who has been called "holy" so far (Masema called her so in the river town in Ghealdan), and she surprised Tuon when she spoke up in defense of Mat Cauthon.  She has had a very interesting time with the Seanchan she's met.  Plus it would just be hilarious.  But I think that Nynaeve is probably going to die, so...

[BFG]

But I think that Nynaeve is probably going to die, so...

*sticks fingers in ears and sings loudly*

I can't hear you.

 

 

 

I quite like the idea tho, she's spent several books getting 'humbler' channlers to stick up for themselves against the AS, it would be ironic if the last we see of her is sticking up for the AS against the Seanchan.

More realistically, I don't think she'd ever forgive them for how they treated Eg.

[Terez]

It doesn't seem very feasible, but I kind of like the idea of Nynaeve.  She is the only female who has been called "holy" so far (Masema called her so in the river town in Ghealdan), and she surprised Tuon when she spoke up in defense of Mat Cauthon.  She has had a very interesting time with the Seanchan she's met.  Plus it would just be hilarious.  But I think that Nynaeve is probably going to die, so...

 

Damn, I made this post like verbatim at tor.com. You and I must think alike. Do you by chance think Gawyn will be involved in Rand's death?   

[Rayquaza1090]

But I think that Nynaeve is probably going to die, so...

 

Nyneave will never die.

EVER

Seriously, though, I think she just needs to bring back Rand (Rand Resurrection theory), and try to heal the 'wounds' after the LB. I don't see how her death would affect anything, save an emotional traumatized Lan and Mat.

[herid]

 But I think that Nynaeve is probably going to die, so...

Nynaeve won't die. Min had a viewing about Lan of a babe holding a sword and when RJ was asked if this viewing is about the past and Lan himself he said that all Min's viewings are about the future. So it likely means Lan's future son. So even if Lan dies, Nynaeve won't.

[Ryan52]

 But I think that Nynaeve is probably going to die, so...

Nynaeve won't die. Min had a viewing about Lan of a babe holding a sword and when RJ was asked if this viewing is about the past and Lan himself he said that all Min's viewings are about the future. So it likely means Lan's future son. So even if Lan dies, Nynaeve won't.

 

Good point Herid, I had not thought of that viewing in a long time.  I spent most of the series hoping badly for her to die eventually but now find myself worried about it happening lol.  I have a good feeling she makes it through AMOL safe and sound.

[Terez]

More likely it refers to the fulfillment of Lan's oath. There won't be much of a Shadow left to fight when (if) their children are born.

[herid]

Doesn't have to be a Shadow. The world won't be perfect after the LB. I think it's pretty safe to say that Malkier will be restored after the LB and there is nobody set to rule it if Lan dies without a heir. Nynaeve has no Malkieri blood so I don't think she would have a claim to the throne without Lan.

[Terez]

I didn't say the world would be perfect. But I don't think the reestablishment of Malkier is a safe bet at all. Not saying it won't happen. But the odds are, if anything, stacked against it, for various reasons.