Will Demandred betray Moridin?

[Southpaw89]

As we know from the series itself, Demandred has been aching for a chance to fight and kill Rand for the longest time. However, in the prologue to AMoL, we can see some tension between Demandred and his leader Moridin. Especially with Taim entering the picture and Moghediens belief that Demandred and Taim knew each other. If Moridin gives Taim a chance to kill Rand and continues to let Cyndane use Slayer to kill Rand, will Demandred seek revenge on Moridin?

[MarkDiLillo]

Ya, I think thats in the cards. Not sure if the motiviation will be the right to kill Rand though. I would love to see a scenario where Demandred comes to grips with the realization that the DO and Moridin's plan is to destroy everything permanently and decides he'd rather be on the good guys side. Imagine Demandred walking into the FoM and announcing that he was there to see Rand.

 

As much as I'd love to see an ending like that...Id give the chances of it occuring to be around 1%.

[Southpaw89]

It was mentioned more than once in the prologue as well how Demandred was staring Moridin down. He kept his eyes on him the whole time and didn't seem to be that happy. Idk, I've never been a big supporter of Demandred being the source of Moridin's downfall but this prologue made me wonder.

[Maleshub]

Demandred's motive for going berserk would be finding out that someone gave the order to kill al'Thor, and Demandred wasn't the recipient of said order.

[Elan Tedronai]

Does it really matter? they are both dead men in any case.

[daavorian]

I'm a bit of a fan of the notion (it shows up in at least one Theoryland theory) that Moridin is the Lord of Chaos, not Rand. The Dark one has been using Ishamael to sow chaos, to ready the seeds, but it shall be Demandred who will rise at the end, as Moridin betrays/is done playing his role, and bring the plans of the Dark One to fruition. There is that interesting quote from Verin that "this battle will not be fought like al'Thor thinks it will". But Moridin and Rand/LTT actually think of the battle in similar terms, an epic struggle for the continuation of the wheel in which the Dark One represents utter destruction. What if that's not the plan? What if Demandred is there to bring reality to fruition.

[a pale tanned lover]

As we know from the series itself, Demandred has been aching for a chance to fight and kill Rand for the longest time. However, in the prologue to AMoL, we can see some tension between Demandred and his leader Moridin. Especially with Taim entering the picture and Moghediens belief that Demandred and Taim knew each other. If Moridin gives Taim a chance to kill Rand and continues to let Cyndane use Slayer to kill Rand, will Demandred seek revenge on Moridin?

 

Moghedien stated that previously Demandred had only wanted Rand dead and hadn't seem to fussed on who killed him. I would like to find out the reason he has gone from wanting him dead to being the one who HAS to kill him now.

[Barid Bel Medar]

As we know from the series itself, Demandred has been aching for a chance to fight and kill Rand for the longest time. However, in the prologue to AMoL, we can see some tension between Demandred and his leader Moridin. Especially with Taim entering the picture and Moghediens belief that Demandred and Taim knew each other. If Moridin gives Taim a chance to kill Rand and continues to let Cyndane use Slayer to kill Rand, will Demandred seek revenge on Moridin?

 

Moghedien stated that previously Demandred had only wanted Rand dead and hadn't seem to fussed on who killed him. I would like to find out the reason he has gone from wanting him dead to being the one who HAS to kill him now.

 

I have a theory that he has figured out the DO/Moridin's plan to destroy everything.

 

There are two things we get when we see Demandred.

1. His desire to kill Rand

2. His excellent observation skills.

He notices Graendal's angreal immediately.He immediately understands Rand's plan to cleanse the source as soon as he felt channelling at Shadar Logoth. I won't go on, but basically he sees much of what other characters miss.

 

Then we have him staring down Moridin and suddenly insisting that he is the one to kill Rand, and straight out threatens betrayal with his "requirement", and is not even called down for it.

 

I think that he has figured out the DO's real plan, and has struck a deal. He will go along with it, but he has to be the one to kill Rand himself to make it worth it. It explains his insistence. Before, it would be fine if Lews Therin was dead and Demandred could rule over the world of the Shadow. His hatred is strong enough that he would help destroy everything if it meant he was guaranteed Rand's death himself (whether that is by his orders, or by him personally).

 

Obviously, Moridin has no such plans to sick with that, nor do any of the other Chosen. However, the DO is pleased with Demandred, and Moridin cannot act. Demandred is needed for the war. He is the only general left for the Shadow. Moridin did command, but he isn't that great. At any rate, Demanded is the best general they have, perhaps as great as any of the Great Captains, perhaps better. So in exchange for his "services", Moridin has to let his attitude slide.

 

So, from there, any of the Chosen trying to kill Rand, or if indeed Rand dies by another's hand, Demandred will betray the Shadow. He doesn't share the same cruel streak the others have. His hatred is what drives him. He never enjoyed war, and more than one of the Chosen think he wouldn't have turned if Lews therin hadn't been born. And the little tidbit (admittedly small) is the recent contrast between his and Moggyrachnid's reaction to the kelp-people. She smiles and likes how others are suffering instead of her. Demandred frowns. Admittedly, we don't have his thoughts, but it is an ongoing theme of little things.

 

Now, I am not saying he will turn to the Light and help out Mat or something like that. I just think he will abandon the Shadow and start attacking the other Chosen and carve out his own power base for post-TG.

[TootThatHorn]

I think the question is more "Will/has the DO betray/betrayed Moridin in favor of Demandred?" Ishy did so much, more so than any forsaken, to keep society as near conquerable as it is and what not, so he gets massive credit for that. However, when the LB is here, imagine if he wasn't Nae'blis. He is the lowest of the low.

 

As I stated in another thread, I do see Ishy as a dramatic foil for Rand, the Champion of the Dark, the Yin to the Yang, but all he is is someone set up to be killed. His death, to me, seems more predictable than anyone's in the entire series. Hell, it wouldn't be the first time, which is probably decent proof for Rand living more than once as well.

[daavorian]

See, but I feel like for all his Chaotic ways, Moridin is exactly how Rand thinks this battle will be fought. He is the dramatic foil, the Yin to the Yang, he is the Dark champion to face the Light. But perhaps that makes him merely a foil of the pattern in the end, a champion woven out to ever lead the dark into captivity. What if Moridin must fall alongside the dragon for the Dark to win?

[Swithin]

In my opinion, Demandred at this point is superfluous. He is a self-obsessed instrument who has an incredible mechanical understanding of the conflict in which he's involved, but no vision to see the purpose of the struggle in the first place. His role in the story is to be a cautionary tale about the kind of individual who completely wastes his potential expending his considerable talents and energies on ultimately petty and meaningless goals - revenge, self-image, grandiosity, etc. He's the mook who dreamed of being an end-boss, could have been a mini-boss earlier in the game, but turns up late to the party and is quickly proven irrelevant. This is not to say that he can't damage the forces of the Light in a big way, but Rand has surpassed him. He's been useful to the DO, but that's about it. I don't expect him to get any respect from anyone once he's handed over his big surprise. After that, he's trash. He may or may not realize this before he bites it - I'm kinda thinking he will, honestly, and regret deeply in that brief moment before he turns into so many sparkling motes of dust.

 

On the other hand, I expect Rand to spare Moridin. Rand's enlightenment culminated in him accepting pain as part of being alive, whereas Moridin wants to end the suffering of existence (on a conceptual level, no less!) no matter the cost. Sticking a sword into him didn't work the first time, and I doubt it would mean much at the end of the series. Rand's victory will be to bring light back to the very darkest corner of Randland, Ishy's soul. He's like the Darth Vader of WoT, and I fully expect him to sacrifice himself so that the Wheel keeps on turning.

[Agravayne]

Demanded joined the Shadow because he was sick of being second fiddle. Three thousand years later and he's second fiddle again, and perhaps at risk of falling to third. I doubt that he will go back to the light, but I think he will find a way to mess it up for the shadow.

[Duskfire]

Demandred will do something, I am sure of it. There has been alot of subtle importance placed on him, and not just because he has this whole mystery behind his agenda. Each little trait of his has been revealed gradually over the series. Demandred is definetly building up to something, and at this point, he is Moridins only real threat left in the Chosen, and Moridin most likely knows that as well. It wouldnt surprise me if Demandred works out the link between Moridin and Rand, and uses it to his advantage somehow.

[MarkDiLillo]

I still think the scene we were privy to where the DO asks if he wants to be Nae'blis and to unleash balefire is key. We never saw a conclusion to that or any indication that Demandred was denied Nae'blis.

[shortkut]

i see demandred either turning or simply going rogue/on his own of he is second fiddle to taim

[mdnyttokr]

Demandred obviously wants to kill Rand, and his rage and jealousy have blinded him, as it did when he first turned to the shadow. Demandred is like an addict, and killing Rand is the only drug he wants. He's going to make an attempt to kill Rand, with or without Moridin's blessing, because he cannot help himself. At that point, one of two things will happen:

 

1. Either Rand will absolutely SPANK Demandred, because Rand has access to everything that Lews Therin knew about Demandred, and probably already has a plan in place for how he will defend himself when Demandred strikes...

 

OR

 

2. More likely, Moridin will kill Demandred for disobeying orders. I think the timing of Rand's death is important to Moridin, and if Demandred is getting ready to muck up that timing, Moridin will have no hesitation whatsoever at ending Demandred once and for all.

 

Demandred might have been able to beat the pre-Veins-of-Gold Rand, but I don't believe Demandred would ever have a chance against Moridin OR the post-Veins-of-Gold Rand.

[thisguy]

You know, this makes some sense from a twisted religious standpoint as well. Jesus had 12 disciples and one betrayed him. The Nae'blis is the antiChrist figure. There are 13 Chosen. He's the anti-Jesus (Moridin). Demandred seems to be the number one Chosen after him. He could be the Nae'blis's Judas.

 

Edit to add - Jesus + 12 Disciples = 13 - for clarification.

[Suttree]

i see demandred either turning or simply going rogue/on his own of he is second fiddle to taim

 

Why would Demandred be second fiddle to Taim?

[Southpaw89]

i see demandred either turning or simply going rogue/on his own of he is second fiddle to taim

 

Why would Demandred be second fiddle to Taim?

 

 

Only reasoning for Demandred being second to Taim is Moridin's comments in AMoL prologue about how Taim has done the best work so far with how he manipulated Rand

[ArveduiEreinion]

I have to agree for all the reasons stated above: Demandred will do something to undermine/attack Moridin. I don't see this as a betrayal, though, because I can't see Demandred going back to the Light. However, he wants to be Nae'blis. He doesn't want to be second to anyone. Moridin is his direct, most deadly competition for that title. He's going to fight Moridin for sure.

[Suttree]

i see demandred either turning or simply going rogue/on his own of he is second fiddle to taim

 

Why would Demandred be second fiddle to Taim?

 

 

Only reasoning for Demandred being second to Taim is Moridin's comments in AMoL prologue about how Taim has done the best work so far with how he manipulated Rand

 

To which it was made clear after that Demy has been up to something massive. Even though He was raised we know Demy has given him orders in the past. No way Taim all of a sudden vaults passed him.

[herid]

The only way Demandred might betray Moridin is by maybe trying to kill Rand at the time of his choosing and not Moridin's. Anything else has been pretty much ruled out by BS.

 

 

MATT HATCH

 

How often does Demandred contemplate killing Moridin?

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

Less than the other Chosen. He is focused on Rand. He contemplates Moridin, but mostly he wants Rand.

BS would NEVER say anything like this if any kind of betrayal of Moridin by Demandred were in the cards.

[Southpaw89]

The only way Demandred might betray Moridin is by maybe trying to kill Rand at the time of his choosing and not Moridin's. Anything else has been pretty much ruled out by BS.

 

 

MATT HATCH

 

How often does Demandred contemplate killing Moridin?

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

Less than the other Chosen. He is focused on Rand. He contemplates Moridin, but mostly he wants Rand.

BS would NEVER say anything like this if any kind of betrayal of Moridin by Demandred were in the cards.

 

And of course he also said that Demandred would've tried by now if he thought he could.

[Fred Cauthon]

You know, this makes some sense from a twisted religious standpoint as well. Jesus had 12 disciples and one betrayed him. The Nae'blis is the antiChrist figure. There are 13 Chosen. He's the anti-Jesus (Moridin). Demandred seems to be the number one Chosen after him. He could be the Nae'blis's Judas.

 

Edit to add - Jesus + 12 Disciples = 13 - for clarification.

 

I never would have thought to make this connection. Is there any support/conjecture/evidence that RJ drew inspiration on various world religions for support in any of the series?

 

Fred

[Corwin]

You know, this makes some sense from a twisted religious standpoint as well. Jesus had 12 disciples and one betrayed him. The Nae'blis is the antiChrist figure. There are 13 Chosen. He's the anti-Jesus (Moridin). Demandred seems to be the number one Chosen after him. He could be the Nae'blis's Judas.

 

Edit to add - Jesus + 12 Disciples = 13 - for clarification.

 

I never would have thought to make this connection. Is there any support/conjecture/evidence that RJ drew inspiration on various world religions for support in any of the series?

 

Fred

 

All through it. RJ would talk about basing characters off the norse gods and other religious parallels are all throughout the series.