[Full Prologue Spoilers] slayer

[harshitvaria]

Hey everyone just wondering what prompted the kill Rand order. Up to this point everyone has been told not to kill Rand. What changed?

[harshitvaria]

Also it seems like slayer does not like the evil things going on in the town. So does this mean he might turn?

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Probably Rand's memory of Light on Dragonmount. He was getting more and more depressed, to the point he almost did the Shadow's work for it. The Dark One wouldn't nesessarily want to interfere with that! We don't know exactly why they stopped trying to kill Rand in the first place, whether they felt he was more likely to throw his life (and the world's life!) away if he wasn't constantly fighting for it, or if a dead Dragon isn't actually a total victory for the Shadow, or what. However, that was almost certainly when the Shadow changed its mind.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Not sure on Slayer. He certainly seems to have a surprising amount of compassion left, but I think his hatred of Perrin tells too strongly against that. I wonder if Slayer's seeming quasi-goodness is a Brandonism, or if RJ meant for him to be a slightly reluctant villain. There's certainly forshadowing that "no one can be so far in the Shadow that they cannot return to the Light", but it's unclear if that was just for Ingtar, or if another Darkfriend will turn.

[PaulChauvet]

I'm not convinced of compassion from Isam except for those in the situation he went through. Beyond that isolated situation, I feel he's more of a monster then most of those within the shadow's forces.

[TootThatHorn]

I'm not convinced of compassion from Isam except for those in the situation he went through. Beyond that isolated situation, I feel he's more of a monster then most of those within the shadow's forces.

 

As far as Isam, I don't see him so much as a monster anymore. Yes he does monstrous things but now he just seems like a robot that is a product of environment.

[PaulChauvet]

Yeah... but then i think back to the wolves...

[Chesus]

Don't forget that he is basically three people in one body. His personality is the proverbial box of chocolates; most of those chocolates are molten evil but every now and then you'll get a bite of nougety goodness. Though both Isam and Luc were indubitably turned to evil perhaps against their wills, they have since then committed countless atrocities. Nothing I read indicates that he would ever turn from the dark side.

[TootThatHorn]

3?

[Agravayne]

I'm really not sure where it falls in the chronology. There are only three remaining Female Foresaken -- Moggy, Lan/Cyn and Gre/Ha. We know its not Moggy, because Slayer would recognize her. We know its not Gre/Ha because the woman is pretty. Therefore, it can only be Lanfear/Cyndane.

 

The last we saw of Lanfear/Cyndane was in Rand's dream, where she was being tortured by the GLotD (we presume).

 

It's not clear what her transgression was to be tortured considering the fact that she was obviously free post-Rand's awakening on Dragonmount and post-Slayer/Perrin's confrontation.

 

Perhaps, the orders she gave to Slayer were the reasons for her latest imprisonment. Perhaps the GLotD needs that confrontation with the Dragon as much as the Light does?

[Suttree]

Don't forget that he is basically three people in one body. His personality is the proverbial box of chocolates; most of those chocolates are molten evil but every now and then you'll get a bite of nougety goodness. Though both Isam and Luc were indubitably turned to evil perhaps against their wills, they have since then committed countless atrocities. Nothing I read indicates that he would ever turn from the dark side.

 

How do you figure three people?

 

In addition what makes you say they both were turned. Isam's parents were DF's so it may not have been necessary.

[jemron]

Just to be clear, my understanding of Slayer is that the Luc side of him is the emotional/evil side. The Isam side seems to be a victim of circumstance, who is really good at hunting and obeying/doing what he's told. Isam was the infant cousin of Lan who was lost and never heard from again. Obviously, we now know that he was raised in the "Town" near Shayol Ghul, and so he's obviously been brought up to serve the shadow, but his childhood was so frightening that he still resents his upbringing there.

[TootThatHorn]

Don't forget that he is basically three people in one body. His personality is the proverbial box of chocolates; most of those chocolates are molten evil but every now and then you'll get a bite of nougety goodness. Though both Isam and Luc were indubitably turned to evil perhaps against their wills, they have since then committed countless atrocities. Nothing I read indicates that he would ever turn from the dark side.

 

How do you figure three people?

 

In addition what makes you say they both were turned. Isam's parents were DF's so it may not have been necessary.

 

Ya, in my above, i wonder 3 also, i thought it was a typo but I looked back and saw the word spelled out lol.

 

And I figured as well with Isam, he just grew up in the wrong place with the wrong people; starting to think that Luc was 13x13'd, well, at least a possibility.

[thisguy]

I thought only those who could touch the OP could be 13x13-ed-ed-ed

[GYLD]

Isam's parents were DF's so it may not have been necessary.

 

Isam was just an infant when Malkier fell. I would think he was too young for his parents to indoctrinate him as a Darkfriend. I'd have to agree with Isam being a product of his environment. In many ways Isam is a victim.

[TootThatHorn]

I thought only those who could touch the OP could be 13x13-ed-ed-ed

 

Oh that is true huh

[Suttree]

Isam's parents were DF's so it may not have been necessary.

 

Isam was just an infant when Malkier fell. I would think he was too young for his parents to indoctrinate him as a Darkfriend. I'd have to agree with Isam being a product of his environment. In many ways Isam is a victim.

 

Yes, most definately a product of his environment. I loved that section of the prologue. Great to get inside his head and the part when he notices the child in the alley was very touching. That more than anything is proof he was not turned.

[yoniy0]

There's a good analogy for the game Moridin is playing in his sha'rah scene. If a player misses the opportunity to either force the Fisher to the rival's color, or take control of it and move it there himself, then the only path left for victory is the complete and total annihilation of the rival. The game always devolves into a bloodbath, and what's specially interesting, the one time Ishamael tried that strategy was his single greatest defeat. I expect we'll see the same thing come to pass in TG.

 

Anyhow, got sidetracked. Yes, Rand was to be killed only at three times: first when he denied the Shadow and chased Callandor. Second when he intended to Cleanse the Source. And third, after VoG (because now the Shadow has no other recourse open to it. As Rand himself said: "It is war, not subterfuge, that turns the day now.")

[harshitvaria]

Something else I just remembered. The foretelling Aes Sedai (forget her name - getra maybe) told Luc to go north. Why would she ask him to do that. What glory would be achieve. Makes me wonder what other role slayer has. besides someone said Robert jorden wrote this scene. So it seems it's pretty important to the overall conclusion. I am thinking slayer will turn to the light as he is about to die and give an important clue to someone maybe perin.

[The Fisher King]

Luc's just a plain ol A Hole.

 

 

Fish

[Chesus]

Don't forget that he is basically three people in one body. His personality is the proverbial box of chocolates; most of those chocolates are molten evil but every now and then you'll get a bite of nougety goodness. Though both Isam and Luc were indubitably turned to evil perhaps against their wills, they have since then committed countless atrocities. Nothing I read indicates that he would ever turn from the dark side.

 

How do you figure three people?

 

In addition what makes you say they both were turned. Isam's parents were DF's so it may not have been necessary.

 

Isam may not have been turned. He was truly raised, for lack of a better term, amongst these darkfriends. Luc almost certainly was turned... Or whatever the hell happened when the two joined. I count Slayer as an identity. Sure it is a meshing of the two, but it doesn't seem to be the same as Isam or Luc.

[Guest Jessi Cross Cowart]

Gitara was the Aes Sesai with the foretelling. It was she who told Tigraine (Rand's mother) to go to the Waste. It was also Gitara who died as Rand was born on the slopes of Dragonmount, but not before she foretold his coming in front of Egwene and/or Siuan. But for some reason I can't remember her telling Luc to go to the Blight. Can someone refresh my memory on that piece?

[Suttree]

Gitara was the Aes Sesai with the foretelling. It was she who told Tigraine (Rand's mother) to go to the Waste. It was also Gitara who died as Rand was born on the slopes of Dragonmount, but not before she foretold his coming in front of Egwene and/or Siuan. But for some reason I can't remember her telling Luc to go to the Blight. Can someone refresh my memory on that piece?

 

LoC Ch. 41

Dyelin nodded, a touch impatiently. "Gitara was counselor to Queen Mordrellen," she said briskly, "but she spent more time with Tigraine and Luc, Tigraine’s brother, than with the Queen. After Luc rode north, never to return, whispers said Gitara had convinced him that his fame lay in the Blight, or his fate. Others said it was that he would find the Dragon Reborn there, or that the Last Battle depended on him going. That was about a year before Tigraine disappeared.

[MountaineerWV]

Luc's fame and fate are still undiscovered.

 

Gitara wasn't evil. She wouldn't send Luc there specifically for him to get caught up with Isam. Luc still has a part to play. He was sent there to do some service for Rand.

[a pale tanned lover]

Luc's fame and fate are still undiscovered.

 

Gitara wasn't evil. She wouldn't send Luc there specifically for him to get caught up with Isam. Luc still has a part to play. He was sent there to do some service for Rand.

 

So the question now is, would Luc kill his nephew? Rand has been noted to have look of Tigraine.