How come Mat can travel?

[nool]

Perhaps a silly question, but how can he use gateways with his fox head medallion?

In LoC there's a passage where Elayne, Nynaeve and Aviendha discover that Mat has a terangreal protecting him. They try to channel, but when the weaves come into contact with Matt they unravel. Shouldn't this happen with gateways as well?

[Mr Ares]

Only if he touches the Gateway, as opposed to passing through it.

[Mik]

Only if he touches the Gateway, as opposed to passing through it.

While I agree with your answer, one thing I just thought of still irks me;

Why can't a Trolloc or a Myrddraal move through one?

 

If nothing weave-related touches Shadowspawn when passing through one, why do they drop dead...?

And if something weave-related is involved when passing through a gateway, why does it function on Mat...?

 

Conundrum?

I havent'given it more thought then the time it took to write this,... so..where is the flaw in the paradox?

 

(and yes yes, Mat =/= Shadowspawn... but that's not the point. The point is for Shadowspawn to die when moving through a gateway like Mat does, there must be -something- there for Shadowspawn to die.. so what is it?)

[nool]

Mik, that's hitting the nail on the head. That's precisely what's bugging me as well.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Only if he touches the Gateway, as opposed to passing through it.

While I agree with your answer, one thing I just thought of still irks me;

Why can't a Trolloc or a Myrddraal move through one?

 

If nothing weave-related touches Shadowspawn when passing through one, why do they drop dead...?

And if something weave-related is involved when passing through a gateway, why does it function on Mat...?

 

Conundrum?

I havent'given it more thought then the time it took to write this,... so..where is the flaw in the paradox?

 

(and yes yes, Mat =/= Shadowspawn... but that's not the point. The point is for Shadowspawn to die when moving through a gateway like Mat does, there must be -something- there for Shadowspawn to die.. so what is it?)

 

RJ said that it doesn't have to do with the Shadow, but anything that is a construct. (Trollocs, Myrddraal Nym)

 

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 21st, 2005

KOD Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.

 

QUESTION

So would a Nym have the same problem?

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes.

 

 

 

I assume it has something to do with the rapid shift in the Pattern, and the instability of the souls when they are put in an artificial construct, it can't handle it and they die.

[Mik]

INTERVIEW: Oct 21st, 2005

KOD Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.

 

QUESTION

So would a Nym have the same problem?

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes.

I assume it has something to do with the rapid shift in the Pattern, and the instability of the souls when they are put in an artificial construct, it can't handle it and they die.

Ok.

Probably more of a space-time issue (wich is a little wierd truth be told) and 'not being able to tolerate the passage' probably isn't referring to a weave-issue.

If it's a space-time issue (what else can 'tolerating the passage' in a non weave related meaning be then moving from point x to y @ time t), then it's more then a little odd that Trollocs can be moved around through If-worlds and the Ways...but meh... It'll have to do as an answer I guess.

 

(doh,..I've read all those quotes a few times, but still questions like these pop into my head and my memory can't seem to find those quotes.. hehe)

 

Thanks Barid for the quick quote.

[Pinzarn]

Ok.

Probably more of a space-time issue (wich is a little wierd truth be told) and 'not being able to tolerate the passage' probably isn't referring to a weave-issue.

If it's a space-time issue (what else can 'tolerating the passage' in a non weave related meaning be then moving from point x to y @ time t), then it's more then a little odd that Trollocs can be moved around through If-worlds and the Ways...but meh... It'll have to do as an answer I guess.

 

(doh,..I've read all those quotes a few times, but still questions like these pop into my head and my memory can't seem to find those quotes.. hehe)

 

Thanks Barid for the quick quote.

 

Plot convienence in my opinion. Just think of the possibilities at the beginning of the series. The Foresaken are loose and know how to make gateways. BAM!!! A ga-jillion Trollocs storm Randland and the series over at the end of book 1. At least RJ, put some thought into it and a reason why. To me it shows that he thought of the possibility and developed a counter to it.

[Darksmoon]

I agree. I think RJ had to make a reason that shadow spawn could not travel since it would have been an easy shadow victory at the beginning. Plus at any point you could just have a massive shadownspawn attack.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well yeah, it is obviously the case.

 

All fantasy work does this, create rules to suit the plot.

 

What it admirable about RJ is that he actually spent a bit of time creating semi-valid rules which generally fits together to create the universe instead of just leaving it at "Nar guys, it just doesn't work like that." (although RJ has done that with a fair few things, just less than usual)

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

Well yeah, it is obviously the case.

 

All fantasy work does this, create rules to suit the plot.

 

What it admirable about RJ is that he actually spent a bit of time creating semi-valid rules which generally fits together to create the universe instead of just leaving it at "Nar guys, it just doesn't work like that." (although RJ has done that with a fair few things, just less than usual)

Really where has he done this? I havent really noticed it.

[elric]

back to thread topic

 

a. it was established that the original medallion dont ruin weaving the wearer cast -> when Elain try to duplicate it her copies prevented chanelling while she was able to channel freely wearing Mat original Medallion

 

about Traveling , i dont percieve mat leaving the fin as traveling , i believe his ashanderi (sp) is able to transfer him between speicific dimensions, possibly only between the fin and randland main dimension.

there an old movie called "chinese ghost story" 1 of the char there exhibit simeral ability -> using his sword to cut an opening into an hell/ghost dimension.

[Thrasymachus]

Well, certainly moving between Finnland and Randland isn't Traveling in the strict sense. But Mat has Travelled lots since he's got his medalion. He Travelled to Caemlyn to help take on Rhavin, then he Travelled to rescue Egwene from the rebel sisters, then again to Ebu Dar, then again from Trustair to Caemlyn. Then from Caemlyn to Whitebridge and back at least once. The he Travelled to the Tower of Ghengi. The last we saw him, he's waiting on a Gateway to take him to Caemlyn again.

 

Bel's explanation is likely the best.

[elric]

the medalion work ONLY if it touch his skin, so Mat can also VERY EASILY disable the medalion effect when it suit him :)

[Knivy]

Unless he actually touches the weaves, nothing happens.

[Durinax]

gateways are essentially giant tubes, so long as he doesnt touch the edge of it he is good

[rand4747]

Yea the middle of the gateway doesn't have any weaves is what I think. thats how both Mat and the gholam pass through and not negate it. The shadowspawn die(except for the golum I guess its a better made shadow spawn) because they pass through an area of the pattern(or is it outside?) that they cant survive in, perhaps being they aren't completely of this world like it says of the myrdraal and the part of them that is outside cant pass through gateways and so when they go through they get separated from that part and die. The myrdraal can vanish into shadows and appear elsewhere, its like they aren't quite in sync with the world, trollocs probably have the same sort of not quite in sync but they just cant do that because they aren't as perfect as myrdraal.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, the excuse is that the Gholam is a more perfected type of construct. I suppose they learned of the problem and fixed it, but it is extremely hard to do, and confined to the 6 Gholam

[jsbrads]

Also very probably if someone makes a pillar of air and ties it off, Mat can touch it. The medallion stops incoming weaves, not ends weaves already created.

 

Also agree the center of gateway has no weaves, just a new continuity in time space thru the center.

 

the backs of gateways which are discontinuous, creating the problem for bad guys when their souls get within 0 inches from the back of the gateway they die

[rand4747]

Also very probably if someone makes a pillar of air and ties it off, Mat can touch it. The medallion stops incoming weaves, not ends weaves already created.

 

I think it will disolve if he touches a pillar of air.