Could Egwene turn from the light?

[etched Chaos]

Right, first post and everything and I've decided to jump in at the deep end with something that has been bugging me about Egwene. Now, I've recently started rereading the books and am currently about to complete book #5 and all through my rereading I've become drawn to certain aspects of Egwene's nature that are less than admirable and wondered if they might lead to her turning from the light and embracing the dark.

 

Now, I'm not saying she will or that I think she will, but I would not be surprised if she did, and could see the reasoning in it too.

 

Alot of my suspicions about this is drawn from her personality traits and how she perceives certain people and aspects of the world. It's not that she's a bad person who would be particularly thought of as someone who could turn bad from the surface but as you scratch deeper you begin to see little traits and attitudes that could fester if given the right push, or rather wrong push.

 

This might be a meandering mess as it's 2.30 am, but please bear with me.

 

Firstly is her jealous streak, especially when it comes to the men. Frequently in her POV's she's thought of what Rand and the other two could do and lamented that fact and then followed up with believing they are likely living a life of luxury, or have no suffered like she has, e.g her moan about having to scrub pots. She also could not stand to have Rand's weaves be invisble to her, something Rahvin himself stated about Saidar. Which also led to her presumption that she knew better than Moiraine when it came to women being unable to teach men to channel. It didn't matter that there was zero evidence that a woman could teach a man to channel nor that her vastly more experienced peers told her so, she didn't believe it could be beyond her and so she ignored their knowledge and tried herself.

 

In itself being jealous isn't bad, but Egwene is jealous of anyone who can do things she cannot, she is especially annoyed if it's a man. These are traits can easily be exploited by someone, all it needs is the right push, a few lies and Egwene might tie herself to the DO purely from the promise of being granted the powers 'withheld' from her, e.g. Saidin. We all know that would be a blatant lie but considering she ignored the inability for women to teach men aspect, i can see her ignoring that too and jumping right in.

 

Her sexism, oh boy, this is a biggie.

 

I'm actually going to leave the analysis of this as it'd go on forever and well we all know how high her opinion is of men, especially Rand. I suspect a Foresaken could coerce her to the dark purely by playing on her sexist traits.

 

Her lust for power. I use the term lust as i find it hard to see what else it can be. Egwene has been incredibly adamant that nothing will stop her from 'learning' all she can. Now indepedently having a love for learning is a good thing, but it's not really learning she yearns for, it's the power that comes with the knowledge. All through her arc she has done everything she can to take that next step on the learning ladder, first she wants to be a wisdom, then Aes Sedai, then Dreamwalker, then Amirilyn. Every time a better avenue for power opened up to her she never hesitated, she shrugged of her previous ambitions and dove headfirst into the next step, never once erring from that journey.

 

She also showed her manipulative side in all of this, when learning with the Wise ones, she lied to them multiple times, pretended to be meek and did whatever punishment they doled out so that she could continue her education. She even used a friend as a scapegoat and distraction so that the Wise One;s did not catch her when she was breaking the rules they set her. Only when they'd finished learning did she confess. The cynical side of me says she did that purely so the relationship stayed strong for future use.

 

This is a trait the DO can easily exploit, all that needs doing is for power to be presented to her and she'd grab it with both hands. If you can hide the fact it;s from the DO, she'll jump right in without a moment's thought.

 

Right, I'm very tired, so will cut short, but there's also her hypocrisy, the joy she took from bullying and again her jealousy of Rand.

 

If I were foresaken, I'd just offer her the chance to usurp Rand's position as the most powerful leader and channeller and Egwene would fall right in line.

[Agitel]

I think Egwene could be manipulated, but I don't think she'd knowingly turn to the Shadow, even if it offered her incredible power. I don't interpret her as a power-hungry monster. And I can't fault Egwene at all for trying to help Rand despite Moiraine's explanation that it couldn't be done. Think of how much "couldn't be done" that's ended up being done over the series, or things that were rediscovered (particularly by Egwene herself). The Aes Sedai have stagnated precisely because people accept the explanations from authority figures that some things are impossible and that knowledge has been lost and experimentation is too risky and shouldn't be done. The fact that she needs to try things herself rather than just accept what people say may come off as arrogant, but I see that trait as more positive than negative.

 

And welcome to the boards. :)

[SylvanFox]

Wow, I just watched a documentary on Narcissistic Personality Disorder and your post made it clear Egwene has a few of those traits (you have to have several for it to be that serious).

 

Then again, so do a lot of people. I don't think Egwene would EVER knowingly serve the Shadow, but could they trick her somehow into doing so? Yes.

 

All of the Forsaken have or had some good qualities. Well, except maybe Semirhage. Even Ishamael is actually a brilliant dude who turned to the DO because he thought it was the most logical thing to do. Lots of people in history have been devoted to reason. Few of them concluded that everything was meaningless and we might as well go on and die. Egwene is also very intelligent and very arrogant, but I don't think that she will go that route. She might end up causing trouble anyway. She seems hell-bent on it.

[Suttree]

Her lust for power. I use the term lust as i find it hard to see what else it can be. Egwene has been incredibly adamant that nothing will stop her from 'learning' all she can. Now indepedently having a love for learning is a good thing, but it's not really learning she yearns for, it's the power that comes with the knowledge. All through her arc she has done everything she can to take that next step on the learning ladder, first she wants to be a wisdom, then Aes Sedai, then Dreamwalker, then Amirilyn. Every time a better avenue for power opened up to her she never hesitated, she shrugged of her previous ambitions and dove headfirst into the next step, never once erring from that journey

 

It has been made quite clear throuhgout the text the responsibiility she feels in wanting to reform the WT and having it whole to face the shadow at TG. We are hit over the head with her intentions in a not at all subtle way. So while yes she thrives to learn more than anyone else, the main thing is she doesn't want to be controlled after her experience as a damane. This of course is exacty what the AS tried to do when they forced the Amrylin title on her and made her a puppet. She did not ask for the title but now that it is hers is doing everything posiible to make sure the tower is strong. She is consalidating power to best combat the shadow, not for some personnel gain like Lanfear so it is highly mislabeling to say she has a "lust for power". Having her turn would have been a cool twist but it is far to late for that. There is a Brandonn quote saying her "character development" is over and she is ready to kick ass at TG.

 

As for what she thinks of Rand, we know the answer to that...

 

ToM

She looked at him, and remembered the youth that he had been. The earnest young man. Not solemn like Perrin, but not wild like Mat. Solid, straightforward. The type of man you could trust with anything.

 

Even the fate of the world.

[Sephie913]

I don't think she would willingly, knowingly turn. She could be tricked, though I don't think it's likely. Personally, I think it would be satisfying as a reader to see her get 13x13 turned. That would be some fun chaos. (I'm not trying to be anti-Egwene, here. Think what it would do for the plot!) It's a little late in the game for that, but it would be disappointing if we don't see it on-screen somewhere.

[Barid Bel Medar]

An interesting question. I think that had the Shadow paid a bit more attention to her earlier, it would have been be possible. Left unexploited, her personality isn't bad, certainly not bad enough for her to turn to the Shadow. But with a bit of effort on the DO's part (well, it would take a lot) when she was still relatively unsure of herself (before KoD) there would have been a real chance to turn her.

 

As it stands now, she would not turn to the Shadow willingly, even in a hypothetical situation, and story wise it wont happen. The only chance of anything similar is her doing it unwillingly or unknowingly. Via - 13x13 (which can happen to any channeler) - Manipulation via Forsaken/DO where she actually thinks she is doing good. - Compulsion. - Hostage situation type thing.

 

The Shadow really messed up by not paying enough attention to those around Rand. They left Mat and Perrin until late, they almost totally ignored Egwene and Nynaeve (apart from the Seanchan plot) and look what all of the TR people have accomplished. The Shadow's biggest chance was missed with Egwene's hatred/fear of Seanchan, they could have really done some damage with that if they had not thought her too far beneath notice.

[etched Chaos]

Agreed about the shadow not paying attention early enough. But there is still a chance she could turn, knowingly or unknowingly. The main key is that she opposes Rand in almost everything, it's not that opposing him is bad but it's how she opposes him, it's always that she knows better, he's just a man, he's insane needs guiding etc etc. A shrewd operator would exploit that until she could only oppose Rand by turning to the dark, even if unknowingly. Another thought is that a few of the Foresaken were turned because they were so jealous of Lews Therin that to oppose him was the only option and ultimately to oppose Lews/Rand you need to be with the dark. Egwene has shown a jealousy towards Rand since the moment he was thought of as Taveren, this can fester in the subconscious and evidently her jealousy has never abated.

 

She is on the side of the light right now, but her priorities are about the White Tower, she's more concerned with the status of the WT Post-LB than anything else. This if anything is not a good thing for the light, sure the WT being whole helps all, but if the WT repeats the same mistakes made when Latra led them away from Lews Therin then the dark will win. Right now, there are no signs that Egwene will fall in line for the good of all, not just the good of the WT.

 

*quick edit* For those saying her turning would not work in the story, I'm not sure that's correct. Thematically we've been given enough subtext and evidence that if eGwene turned it is entirely justifiable. The only way it would be wrong is if she is already a BA, that would be a joke, but her turning in the final book through outside influences could work very well. If she turned, the whole landscape of the books would change and Egwene would suddenly become one of the great fiction characters.

[Suttree]

She is on the side of the light right now, but her priorities are about the White Tower, she's more concerned with the status of the WT Post-LB than anything else.

 

Actually that isn't what we see at all. Her priorities are about the WT because she believes the world needs it whole to face the shadow at TG. Now one could argue whether they still are the group best suited to lead the light in that battel but that is a different discussion entirely.

 

This if anything is not a good thing for the light, sure the WT being whole helps all, but if the WT repeats the same mistakes made when Latra led them away from Lews Therin then the dark will win. Right now, there are no signs that Egwene will fall in line for the good of all, not just the good of the WT.

 

First you do realize LTT's plan was flawed correct? If Saidar had been used in addition to Saidin it would have been tainted as well. Per RJ it was a "lucky thing" the female AS were not involved. I have always though it likely the pattern pushed her away from LTT as that is what was needed for that age. In terms of the now Egwene has agreed to meet with him at the FoM. If Min has figured out how to seal the bore and Rand lays out a rational course of action(remember Egwene has already asked him to plan once and Rand refused) I don't see why she wouldn't fall in line with support. Especially given the fact that she believes he can be trusted with the "fate of the world".

[Agitel]

I was going to make the same point Suttree made. Letra was right to oppose LTT and build a coalition to not aid in his plan. Her option may not have been the best either, but if she hadn't opposed LTT then both sides of the source would have been tainted.

[driedraspberry]

Eggy is how I imagine a young Mierin was. She has a long way to go, but it's not at all unbelievable to see her turn to the shadow. She has already changed so much, her dedication to AS superamcy being the most alarming, and I think it's very much a realistic possibility.

[Suttree]

Eggy is how I imagine a young Mierin was.

 

?

 

Mierin per RJ was ripe for the shadow's plucking long before the bore. She was always about personnel gain, a lust for status and power(not at all tied to the greater good) and who she could climb over to achieve that. Meanwhile we have Eggy who had that position of power forced on her and had to make do. Her entire thought process since then has been on reforming the WT and having it strong to face the shadow. She wants power for a united WT, not for herself. None of it has been for personnel gain or power for powers sake. There really is very little similarity between the two.

[Entreri]

In a word NO.

 

However, it would be awesome if she got killed.

[Haggis]

Thing is all those traits are pretty common,. Rand for example fits the bill. If anything I would call those signs of leadership.

 

If you want to change the world or protect people then you need power, and more power than those going agianst you. And half of leading is making people think they want what you want.

[driedraspberry]

Eggy is how I imagine a young Mierin was.

 

?

 

Mierin per RJ was ripe for the shadow's plucking long before the bore. She was always about personnel gain, a lust for status and power(not at all tied to the greater good) and who she could climb over to achieve that. Meanwhile we have Eggy who had that position of power forced on her and had to make do. Her entire thought process since then has been on reforming the WT and having it strong to face the shadow. She wants power for a united WT, not for herself. None of it has been for personnel gain or power for powers sake. There really is very little similarity between the two.

 

Eggy is bound to the tower, their unity is in her favor, their supremacy her power. Eggy is both ambitious and power hungry, and with increasing isolation brought on by trajectory she's on, I can only see her becoming increasingly more so in both regards.

 

Mierin wasn't born evil. She was a sweet 18yo once, perhaps a bit power hungry, too certain of herself before she had any business to be...

[Suttree]

Eggy is bound to the tower, their unity is in her favor, their supremacy her power. Eggy is both ambitious and power hungry, and with increasing isolation brought on by trajectory she's on, I can only see her becoming increasingly more so in both regards.

 

Mierin wasn't born evil. She was a sweet 18yo once, perhaps a bit power hungry, too certain of herself before she had any business to be...

 

Per RJ...

 

As an aside, for those who think that Lanfear was in some way twisted against her will by being involved in drilling the Bore—I have heard the theory advanced—of all those involved in the project, she was the only major figure to go over to the Shadow. She was ripe for the Shadow's plucking long before the Bore was drilled.

 

&

 

Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him....Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted—wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator.

 

Perhaps not born evil but a far cry from what Egwene is.

 

As for the rest if you can provide one instance of Egwene's thoughts being for personnel power and domination, not for the greater good or a whole WT to face TG please do do. I will give you a little hint however...it doesn't exist. We hare literally hammered over the head with the duty she feels to refrom the WT and face the shadow. Never once is their any indication that she doesn't care for those things and is working for personnel gain.

[driedraspberry]

Eggy is bound to the tower, their unity is in her favor, their supremacy her power. Eggy is both ambitious and power hungry, and with increasing isolation brought on by trajectory she's on, I can only see her becoming increasingly more so in both regards.

 

Mierin wasn't born evil. She was a sweet 18yo once, perhaps a bit power hungry, too certain of herself before she had any business to be...

 

Per RJ...

 

As an aside, for those who think that Lanfear was in some way twisted against her will by being involved in drilling the Bore—I have heard the theory advanced—of all those involved in the project, she was the only major figure to go over to the Shadow. She was ripe for the Shadow's plucking long before the Bore was drilled.

 

&

 

Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him....Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted—wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator.

 

Perhaps not born evil but a far cry from what Egwene is.

 

As for the rest if you can provide one instance of Egwene's thoughts being for personnel power and domination, not for the greater good or a whole WT to face TG please do do. I will give you a little hint however...it doesn't exist. We hare literally hammered over the head with the duty she feels to refrom the WT and face the shadow. Never once is their any indication that she doesn't care for those things and is working for personnel gain.

 

Those quotes are in relation to 200+yo Mierin before the bore was drilled. My point was Mierin wasn't born evil. And likely it took more than a decade to become ripe. The base traits she shares with 18yo Eggy aren't a far cry tbh.

 

Power hungry people don't consider themselves power hungry...

 

As of now, Eggy is in many ways similar to Pedron Niall, out to secure the position of her institute, which in turn is beneficiary to herself. They both have/had the Last Battle in mind, but due to their own personal ambitions remain blind to the negative aspects of their faction when it serves them.

[Suttree]

As of now, Eggy is in many ways similar to Pedron Niall, out to secure the position of her institute, which in turn is beneficiary to herself. They both have/had the Last Battle in mind, but due to their own personal ambitions remain blind to the negative aspects of their faction when it serves them.

 

The first quote is in relation to Lanfear's character. It is not set for any timeframe. It i said "long before the bore" she was "ripe". That would be when she was young. The second quote refers equally well(per the BWB) to her relationship with LTT. We know that relationship happened when she was young so it is absolutely applicable. LTT broke it off because...

BWB

partly because she loved her association with the great Lews Therin more than she loved the man, and partly because she saw him as a path to power for herself.

 

As to the second part are you saying Egwene is unconsciously working for her own power? That she thinks she is tyring to work for the greater good and fighting TG but that isn't true, that she has tricked herself?

 

Lastly your point about her being bling to the negative aspects of her faction rings hollow. She has called them "fools" and says they must reform. She is even arguing for less of a hold on the world which runs counter to yoru claims of power.

 

ToM

"The world as it was cannot be ours any longer," Egwene said softly, not wanting the Wise Ones to overhear. "Was it ever? The Black Tower bonds Aes Sedai, the Aiel no longer revere us, the Windfinders have hidden their best channelers from us for centuries and are becoming increasingly belligerent. If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending upon how successful we are. I accept neither title.

[driedraspberry]

As of now, Eggy is in many ways similar to Pedron Niall, out to secure the position of her institute, which in turn is beneficiary to herself. They both have/had the Last Battle in mind, but due to their own personal ambitions remain blind to the negative aspects of their faction when it serves them.

 

The first quote is in relation to Lanfear's character. It is not set for any timeframe. It i said "long before the bore" she was "ripe". That would be when she was young. The second quote refers equally well(per the BWB) to her relationship with LTT. We know that relationship happened when she was young so it is absolutely applicable. LTT broke it off because...

BWB

partly because she loved her association with the great Lews Therin more than she loved the man, and partly because she saw him as a path to power for herself.

 

As to the second part are you saying Egwene is unconsciously working for her own power? That she thinks she is tyring to work for the greater good and fighting TG but that isn't true, that she has tricked herself?

 

Lastly your point about her being bling to the negative aspects of her faction rings hollow. She has called them "fools" and says they must reform. She is even arguing for less of a hold on the world which runs counter to yoru claims of power.

 

ToM

"The world as it was cannot be ours any longer," Egwene said softly, not wanting the Wise Ones to overhear. "Was it ever? The Black Tower bonds Aes Sedai, the Aiel no longer revere us, the Windfinders have hidden their best channelers from us for centuries and are becoming increasingly belligerent. If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending upon how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

"Young" by AoL definition very well ranged into 200+. Remember how Moghie claimed she was considered young by her time's standards. You can claim by 18 Mierin was ripe for the shadow, but I simply can't believe that.

 

As for Eggy, well of course she doesn't "want" to see herself as a tyrant. It's actions that define the power hungry, not their self image. After all, the Forsaken were Chosen. That's not to say Eggy is evil, or is certain to become a tyrant, but there is definitely potential there.

 

And in regards to her not being blind, she'll just tie them with lace. She is a smart girl and knows when to subtly exercise power.

[Suttree]

As of now, Eggy is in many ways similar to Pedron Niall, out to secure the position of her institute, which in turn is beneficiary to herself. They both have/had the Last Battle in mind, but due to their own personal ambitions remain blind to the negative aspects of their faction when it serves them.

 

The first quote is in relation to Lanfear's character. It is not set for any timeframe. It i said "long before the bore" she was "ripe". That would be when she was young. The second quote refers equally well(per the BWB) to her relationship with LTT. We know that relationship happened when she was young so it is absolutely applicable. LTT broke it off because...

BWB

partly because she loved her association with the great Lews Therin more than she loved the man, and partly because she saw him as a path to power for herself.

 

As to the second part are you saying Egwene is unconsciously working for her own power? That she thinks she is tyring to work for the greater good and fighting TG but that isn't true, that she has tricked herself?

 

Lastly your point about her being bling to the negative aspects of her faction rings hollow. She has called them "fools" and says they must reform. She is even arguing for less of a hold on the world which runs counter to yoru claims of power.

 

ToM

"The world as it was cannot be ours any longer," Egwene said softly, not wanting the Wise Ones to overhear. "Was it ever? The Black Tower bonds Aes Sedai, the Aiel no longer revere us, the Windfinders have hidden their best channelers from us for centuries and are becoming increasingly belligerent. If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending upon how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

"Young" by AoL definition very well ranged into 200+. Remember how Moghie claimed she was considered young by her time's standards. You can claim by 18 Mierin was ripe for the shadow, but I simply can't believe that.

 

As for Eggy, well of course she doesn't "want" to see herself as a tyrant. It's actions that define the power hungry, not their self image. After all, the Forsaken were Chosen. That's not to say Eggy is evil, or is certain to become a tyrant, but there is definitely potential there.

 

And in regards to her not being blind, she'll just tie them with lace. She is a smart girl and knows when to subtly exercise power.

 

Come on dried you are really playing with your definition of young here. We know the relationship happened well before the bore(does anyone know how old she was at that point?). Further anyone could take any character and say well I think she's doing it for this reason but you need to provide proof to support it. The books tell us why she is doing it and her actions follow accordingly. The point being you can not provide one quote from the text, thought or action that shows she is working for personnel power and not to do so for the greater good. It is simply not there.

 

As for your last comment I'm assuming you are talking about the channeler exchange program. This is one of her greates reforms and will change AS for the better more than any other move. All the groups will be jockeying for power within the frame work of the deal hence the "play best" quote. There is nothing about the deal that gives the AS an unfair advantage or leg up in controlling the other groups. You have already proven you can not support your view on Eggy with evidence from the text so I'll ask you next to prove how the deal gives an advantage to the AS? You are letting bias inform your viewpoints here.

[Alric]

I don't think we know Mierin's age at the Sealing, do we? Nor are we completely sure about the lifespan of channelers not bound to any oaths - and to which extent their strength influences their lifespan. When Rand sees Lanfear's true appearance in tSR, she looks mature and different from the "Selene" illusion. So comparing her to maybe the only really powerful non-bound channeler we know Alivia (413) who still doesn't have gray hair and only has some small lines around her eyes (from my memory at least), I'm guessing that Lanfear could easily be 400+. I would not be surprised that she had been an egocentrically opportunist for hundreds of years.

[etched Chaos]

To those who say Latra was right, you're incorrect because as soon as her plan proved impossible to carry out within the time constraints they had, LTT's plan was all that was left. Flawed plan or not it was all they had and yet she opposed it all the way to the bitter end and the subsequent breaking. Yet LTT never once opposed Latra's plan he assisted with it until he had no choice but to commit himself and his 100 companions on the strike at SG. If LTT doesn't strike at SG, the light loses, it's as simple as that. You can debate the merits of his plan with hindsight, but given there were two plans on the table and one of them was impossible to carry out in time to save them all, anyone opposing the other plan is condemning them all to destruction.

 

You're free to oppose something you deem risky but as soon as that risk is outweighed by the consequences of not acting you forget your prior opinions and back it. This is not about what happened after, it's about the idea of opposing your only method of salvation even when there is no other choice. In this way if Egwene follows suit, she'll condemn them all. If she wants to oppose Rand she needs to put an alternative on the table and it needs to be viable enough to be considered. It's no good going to Merrilor and saying, I oppose the breaking of the seals, we should wait until another plan presents itself. That plan may never materialise and you've then given the Shadow all the advantage.

[Suttree]

 

 

If she wants to oppose Rand she needs to put an alternative on the table and it needs to be viable enough to be considered. It's no good going to Merrilor and saying, I oppose the breaking of the seals, we should wait until another plan presents itself. That plan may never materialise and you've then given the Shadow all the advantage.

 

The point is Egwene already asked Rand to plan and he refused. Why would you think she wouldn't listen to reason if Min actually figures out how to seal the bore and Rand lays it out rationally.

 

As for Latra she claimed LTTs plan was too dangerous and she ended up being right. As much as LTT saved the world the pattern most likely made sure the women were not involved so the world would not be destroyed in the breaking. Not to mention without Latra and her "Shadar Nor" persona the light likely doesn't make it out of the breaking.

[Durinax]

If she wants to oppose Rand she needs to put an alternative on the table and it needs to be viable enough to be considered. It's no good going to Merrilor and saying, I oppose the breaking of the seals, we should wait until another plan presents itself. That plan may never materialise and you've then given the Shadow all the advantage.

 

The point is Egwene already asked Rand to plan and he refused. Why would you think she wouldn't listen to reason if Min actually figures out how to seal the bore and Rand lays it out rationally.

because often Egwene is blind to any good Rand does, throughout the series she never acknoledges his achievements to him, she just usually calls him arrogent, wool-headed, etc.

 

actually Rand did the exact right thing, he got fresh eyes looking at a major problem, and working on it separately allows for a wider search for the answers rather than just narrowing the search along one line. Not to mention if Min was to work with the AS how long before they completely disregarded her and went about their own way only?

[etched Chaos]

If she wants to oppose Rand she needs to put an alternative on the table and it needs to be viable enough to be considered. It's no good going to Merrilor and saying, I oppose the breaking of the seals, we should wait until another plan presents itself. That plan may never materialise and you've then given the Shadow all the advantage.

 

The point is Egwene already asked Rand to plan and he refused. Why would you think she wouldn't listen to reason if Min actually figures out how to seal the bore and Rand lays it out rationally.

 

As for Latra she claimed LTTs plan was too dangerous and she ended up being right. As much as LTT saved the world the pattern most likely made sure the women were not involved so the world would not be destroyed in the breaking. Not to mention without Latra and her "Shadar Nor" persona the light likely doesn't make it out of the breaking.

 

Since when has Egwene ever been rational when listening to Rand? He has LTT's memories, his experiences, his knowledge and as such he's better placed to make a decision like breaking the seals than anyone else, but if he explained that to Egwene she'd still oppose him. The books are filled with Egwene thinking Rand is a woolheaded fool or shuddering at the thought of him channelling. She has zero respect for what he can do and what he's achieved, if anything she thinks even less of him now than she did when he was just a woolheaded fool from the Two Rivers and was just thought of as taveren.

 

She was not proved right, you do understand what the other option was for them at that time right? If LTT doesn't strike at SG it's over, the dark wins. Latra's plan was irrelevant, it could not be executed in time for them to save humanity. There was nothing else that could be done, nothing, if Latra's plan was still feasible you;d be right but it wasn't. So what your basically arguing is that LTT's plan was more dangerous than allowing the Dark One to win. You do realise how illogical that is right? They gained 3000 years out of his plan, the price they paid for it was steep but I have no doubt if you told someone to choose between letting the Do win or tainting Saidin and breaking the world, but having a chance to try again they'd take the latter.

 

In simple terms, there was only LTT's plan in the end, Latra's failed, could not be done, so what else would you have him do?

[driedraspberry]

Come on dried you are really playing with your definition of young here. We know the relationship happened well before the bore(does anyone know how old she was at that point?). Further anyone could take any character and say well I think she's doing it for this reason but you need to provide proof to support it. The books tell us why she is doing it and her actions follow accordingly. The point being you can not provide one quote from the text, thought or action that shows she is working for personnel power and not to do so for the greater good. It is simply not there.

 

As for your last comment I'm assuming you are talking about the channeler exchange program. This is one of her greates reforms and will change AS for the better more than any other move. All the groups will be jockeying for power within the frame work of the deal hence the "play best" quote. There is nothing about the deal that gives the AS an unfair advantage or leg up in controlling the other groups. You have already proven you can not support your view on Eggy with evidence from the text so I'll ask you next to prove how the deal gives an advantage to the AS? You are letting bias inform your viewpoints here.

 

How am I reaching? It's there in books, spoken directly by Moghedien. The Shadow Rising, Into the Palace.

 

"I had lived over two hundred year when the bore was opened, and I was still young, for an Aes Sedai."

 

In the end it doesn't matter exactly how old she was. Eggy has held a position of power for what, half a year? Give her a few decades before she can be compared to Mierin's ripeness for the shadow. Egwene sees herself in a certain light, and text from her POV supports that. Look at her actions instead, like bullying Nyn or manipulating Mat to serve her own cause. And I agree with the attributes etched Chaos has listed. I personally can't see how anyone would dispute Eggy's thirst for power since, to me at least, it's been an integral part of the character, but opinions vary I suppose. And it's not bias, I actually enjoy that aspect of her character, it's much more enjoyable than say Perrin's reluctance.