Rand mishandling Taim

[Nelm]

Every time Rand deals with Taim I personally think that he has handled it poorly. He has never treated Taim with any respect. He always treats him as someone that is underneath him and not worthy of anything great.

 

I also personally believe that as the wheel turns around to the new age there will be new Chosen. Taim is a prime candidate for that.

 

Can Rand having mishandled Taim actually forced him to the dark? When if he was handled correctly he might have made a good person for the light?

 

I ask myself how long I would allow myself to be treated that way before I would do something differently...

[Dark Justice]

Well. acording to the profecies the one that comes after Rand is the Ashaman who went to get Calandor (sp?) in tear, before the cleansing. dont remember his name at the moment. have a huge hangover, so my brain doesnt really work now.

[Thor]

I read the title too fast and I thought, "manhandle? wtf?"

[Rrahzz AlDaen]

I'm convinced that Taim was already a darkfriend when he showed up for Rands amnesty. You recall in TSR when one of the two captured black sisters mantions a plot to release Taim? Then just before Siuan is deposed she mentions something about Taim escaping, and that he must have had help with the power? Also it seems that Taims favorites were the ones who helped Os'angar attack Rand in Caeirhein and then persued him to Far Madding. Then there are Taims words in the end of KOD when speaking with the Red Aei Sedai, "After all, you must remember the old saying, 'Let the Lord of Chaos Rule'" How would he know that saying unless it came from Moridin or Demandred, seeing as how Demandred was the first to recieve those instructions from the DO himself, and Moridin has taken that on as his personal slogan. Taim has also made mention of "These so called Aiel" in either LOC or FOH. The only other people to make reference to the Aiel like that are the Forsaken who remember them as passifist servants.

 

No, I don't think Rands mishandling of Taim had anything to do with it. Taim came to him asking for an equal share in power, and then too quickly submitted. In my opinion, Taim was already well into the Dark side before he layed eyes on Rand. :twisted:

[DemandredFO]

I think Rand doesn't fully trust Taim cuz he was a false Dragon and further, cuz Lews Therin, as crazy as he is, is especially vehement in her hatred of Taim. Rand uses Taim because he is the best he has to work with because Logain is still severed at that point and later Rand is killing Sammael, dealing with the Seanchan, cleansing Saidin and otherwise getting ready for Tarmon Gaidon.

[Mercer]

Taim rubbed him wrong (aside from thinking he was more important than he was) from the start, him and LT both. The only way he handled him wrong, was to give him so much time alone at the Black Tower, and influence with all the Asha'man. Bad move.

[Skull26]

I think that Taim is a dark friend or a recently raised forsaken. When he was captured he was broke out by Black Sisters, they could of just told him he either gets gentled or he works for the Dark. it would be and easy choice for a man thinking of that fate. he must of been given some high place near a forsaken cause of the power he has and position with Rand.

When Elidia (sry bout spelling) has the fortelling about the Black Tower burning it will be when Rand comes back to the Black Tower and Taim and his followers that he has trained personaly attack and try to kill rand. But the Min's vision things say that Logain will be powerful some day or something along those lines. Logain and his men will side with Rand and in turn he will become Rands' right hand man and the Leader of the Black Tower. At least thats how I think it will turn out.

[Taz]

I think Rand has handled both Logain and Taim badly. He's given Taim too much freedom and Rand isn't seen as at all linked to the Black Tower. He is so arrogant with Logain - and everyone goes on about the Aes Sedai arrogance! Rand is far worse - I know he is the Dragon Reborn and all that but what he's done with Logain & Taim seems like kids in a playground stuff and all about ego.

Its not the best plan in the world - treat the two most powerful male channellers around (other than the FS) like cr@p - there's bound to be trouble ahead. It's just as well Logain seems to hate Taim too otherwise the two of them could have banded together against Rand.

[CrazyMike]

I believe the problem Rand has with Taim is because of Lews Therin Telemon (LTT),,, LTT's reaction to Taim seems to indicate memories of the Age of Legends , however , those memories could be a case of Mistaken Identity,,, Taim looks like someone LTT hated and Taim has the Ability to channel saiden and is very strong in the power,,, so LTT thinks Taim is someone he hated long long ago,,, But Taim's looks and power could be coincidence, after all 3000 years of genetic heritage and chance could have put the looks and power together, If this is the case then Robert Jordan has thrown us a big RED HERRING to chase after and a huge suprise to hit us later in the series...

 

Other than LTT's Reaction to Mazrim Taim there is no Direct evidence that Taim is Either Dark Friend or Foresaken,,, and I am considering Osan'gar's

aka: Corlan Dashiva's attempt to kill Rand (TPoD: Chapter 29,,,"A Cup of Sleep") and at the same time I am considering Taim's saving Rand from a Greyman (LoC: Chapter 28, "Letters") ,,, so I think Taim may have been deceived by Osan'gar and did not know who he was, so is not a DF or a Forsaken, and in fact if he (Taim) was a Forsaken it is not likely he would have Tolerated Osan'gar's presince at the BT and if Taim were a DF it is more likely Osangar would have used him in a better planned attack on Rand...

 

So I believe the Issue of TAIM is still problimatical and undecided,,, I do not think him a DF or a Forsaken...

 

Also,,, as for LOGAIN ,,, remember he has just found out that RAND is hearing the voice of Lews Therin Telemon in his head,,, so he has to be considering that Rands Behavior is not intentional ,,, also he has to considering that there is now a drect link to the Age of Legends andf that is where Rands new battle Weaves come from , so he may be a little bit grateful for that,,, but Primarily I believe LOGAIN also has a Voice in his head, and it could be the Voice of one of LTT's friends and companions from the Age of Legends...

I think LOGAIN will hold a Discussion of this with Rand and together it will give both strength to deal with the Madness both suffer...(Male Bonding)

Possibly a discussion of the same topic with Taim could take place or both mens joint knowledge may be revealing about Taim...

[Voices of Reason]

Taim is a bad guy without any question. There is no evidence anywhere that he is on Rand's team and there are loads of examples already given that show his "bad guyiness".

 

For the record, Taim "saving" Rand's life from that greyman was a bit bogus. For one Rand had it covered all ready but regardless I'm reasonably certain that that situation was set up to make Taim the "hero" and get him on Rand's good side. Taim had something to do with that greyman being there in the first place and he planned on killing it to get him in close with the Dragon.

 

Taim is on the Dark One's side beyound all suspicion.

[Iceman]

Taim is a Darkfriend!

Taim will be a new generation Forsaken!

Logain will battle Taim and gain control of the Black Tower and earn his "Glory"!

 

It cracks me up when people take shady evidence and all agree on what it means when we have a crafty writer like Jordan steering the ship.

 

I think it would be hilarious if Taim ended up surprising everyone and leading his contingent of the Ashaman into the blight as a cavalry to save Rand's buttocks at the last minute (and probably dying in the process) and Logain get's his "Glory" by leading the rest of the Ashaman against the Seanchan attacking the White Tower and then leading that combined army against another threat from the shadow on another front.

 

Just when everyone thinks they know what to expect from the characters and events in the last book, I'd love to see Jordan throw in a few big twists that still fit the prophesies and leave everyone saying, "Huh... didn't see THAT one coming."

[Trib4l]

All except for that not so shady evidence that's plainly laid out at the end of KoD...

 

[Mercer]

Or, you know, Kisman outright saying (well, thinking) that three people, including Taim, had told him to kill Rand. Twists, though I do love them, do not come like this. It would be like Moridin coming over to the light.

[Nelm]

Taim is no doubt a darkfriend. And I believe that he will be granted acceptance into the ranks of the Foresaken. I guess my original question was "Did Rand create another foresaken and any number of male dreadlords through his mismanagement of Taim."

 

The evidence I have to support that this is true is the constant disrespect that Rand in his madness expresses to Taim.

 

Yes Taim is inherintly ambitions and wants power. Many of the Aes Sedi are the way and yet stay to the light. ie Romanda and Lelaine... Yet Egwene has handled them correctly.

 

The other thing is that earlier in the books they mention that one of the other Foresaken went over to the dark in jealousy of Lews Therin. I believe it was Demandred. We all know how arrogant Rand is. And Lews Therin was probably much the same. How many arrogant men do any of us really care for? And given the role that Rand keeps insisting on putting Taim is it no wonder that he does with someone that will give him the glory and power that he wants.

 

I believe Taim might have always had a tendency to go to the dark. And yet I can't help but believe he was good at first and Rand pushed him over the edge.

[rand]

Sometimes I actually believes Taim to be Demandred. If that is right, then it would explain why Lews Therin want him dead all the time.

If tha is the truth, then Taim didn't go over to the Dark, he already was there...

 

Just a thought...

[RobertAlexWillis]

As many other people will tell you, however, Jordan has offfically debunked the Taim as Demandred theory.

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

 

Look at question four, the answer to which contains the following line:

 

Yes. Demandred has never posed as Mazrim Taim. All right, those of who fell over from the shock of a simple, straightforward answer can get up off the floor now. Sometimes, simple and straightforward can be the most devious of all, as any student of Aes Sedai will tell you. <Maniacal>

 

And, just in case you want to latch onto the word "posed" as some have, and say "maybe he's not 'posing' maybe he was Taim all along" Taim is in his 30's so he was alive long before the Forsaken were out. If Demandred is Taim now, he would have to be "posing". Therefore, Demandred is not Taim.

 

Sorry. I thought he was too, until this stuff was pointed out to me.

[rand]

Now that I read this stuff I understand a bit of it....

But why is it that Lews Therin want Taim dead???

 

There are something about Taim; and I believe that RJ is the only one who knows what yet...

[RobertAlexWillis]

I personally think that its either one of two things:

 

1) Lews Therin is just insane ... after all, he talks about killing all the Asha'man ...

 

or

 

2) If there is a special dislike for Taim, it may be that Lews Therin has some way of recognizing the Forsaken mark, and Taim has it. Allow me to admit, right off, that #2 is purely speculative, I have no solid evidence for it. Most likely it is #1.

[linque]

I belive Rand will order Logain to kill Taim. I remember Ewgene to see a dream where Logain stands on that black stone in black tower and there is charred corpse on ground. She thinks it's Rand but, what if it's Taim and Logain takes ashaman in control?

[isleofjib]

i had thought that taim was demandred up til one of the asha'man that tries to kill rand tells taim that demandred told him to kill rand and taim was surprised.

since then, i've been very uncertain what is going on with taim other than he's clearly a DF (why would anyone of the light order rand killed?). there's too much going on that makes it seem unlikely he's who he says (ie, the aiel comments, LTT's reaction to him, etc).

 

then at the very end of KOD, the red aes sedai go to see taim and his buidling is done in red and black and his last line is "besides, you must remember the old saying. let the lord of chaos rule." and then pevera's thought is she "had never heard any saying like that". which leads me to believe it isn't an old saying so there are few ways taim could have learned that. since i can recall only 2 or 3 characters in the whole book having used this saying (ishy/moridin, demandred and possibly the DO-can't remember for sure), and red and black are moridin's colors, i'm now wondering if taim isn't moridin. it might be coincidence but it definitely explains a few things including why LTT reacts to taim the way he does. yes, he rants whenever asha'man are near, but he goes especially nuts for any of the forsaken. course, i could be entirely wrong and i guess we'll find out when RJ finishes the series.

[kits]

Stay with me no this one. Taim is Moridin's/ Ishy's man.He even dresses in the same colors.

Remember how the books talk about Moridin beening all sratigy and how his even a good stones player. Well I think that Taim is a string that Mord. tied to Rand.

Who is Taim really?I think he is a new dreadlord. I meen they have to came in some where and who better than Taim, who is almost as powerful as Rand and we are pretty sure he is serving the dark side. By the way the origional dreadlords were Ishys during the trolloc wars.Also Taim knows alot of old power stuff.

From where? Most likely candidate for his proffessor is definatly Moridin if only for the reason that he's not afraid of his students turning on him, not

with the DO behind him.

I even had a thought that just before Taim came to Rand, Moridin sent another DL in traing to take out Asmo,because if Taim is serving Mord./Ishy, Asmo may know him, he may also know other future DL.That's why he was scared of the man in front of him. He saw him and knew "He sent his cronies to kill me"You.No!!!""

BTW don't think Moridin was resurected in book 6, he was brought back some time in #4. when the bubbles of evil started, thats when the DO was strong enough to bring forsaken back. So my theory. is possible.

Think about it.