AMOL Prologue Spoiler Discussion

[bobarose]

nice teaser.still eight more months to go.sigh!

[mbuehner]

Tiny army of evil farmers eh? What are they gonna do, grow corn at TDR? A lot of people are moving towards the borderlands, FoM is north of a lot of places. Sometimes a spade is just a spade...

[IAlsoEnjoyTheSeries]

I can't, for the life of me, understand the complaints. The passage is a perfect stage setter, just as opening POVs have been in previous books.

 

 

 

i agree, ok so the literary aspect is slightly off. honestly i cant even notice that when im having chills reading this. i can actuallty FEEL the last battle approaching. i dont want any "this guy is a dark friend" and big revealing points in the prolouge. the way he opened it up is perfect! a slow and somber journey to the Last Battle, spontaneous and out of no where.

"it has nothing to do with you" agh! i love how this sense of duty to fight the last battle is overcoming everyone, including me! i was in the process of grabbing my samurai sword off the wall to fight off some trollocs hahaha

 

all in all, GREAT intro to the mood and feeling of the Last Battle, no facts or revelations....just the Last Battle, its all that matters people :D

[Clayden69]

Hi guys been a while since I been on. Decided to log on again as Im just about to start my re-read of WoT from Bk 1 (planning on reading other books between volumes so giving myself plenty of time). It will be my 3rd read of the series. Logged-on to Dragonmount yesterday for 1st time in months and see that the prologue has been released

 

 

 

Overall I enjoyed it very much. Prose continues to be clunky at times however.

 

He felt chilled, as if he’d spent an entire night in a cold cellar.

His stomach growled. Again.

 

Ouch.

 

 

 

agree. I actually thought the standard of it was quite low. But I am now just about to have my 2nd read of it so hopefully my view will change

[Dream]

I thought this little snippet was great, especially the pacing. The slow meticulous crafting of Bayrd vs. the chaotic rambling of Jarid. I can almost hear the war drums starting up as everyone drops what they are doing and begins their solemn march to the Last Battle. DOOM. DOOM. DOOM.

[IAlsoEnjoyTheSeries]

 

King Roedran (possibly a Forsaken in disguise): 3 to 1

 

 

im convinced that Roedran is Demandred. it has to be! 1000 bloody andoran marks on that!

 

Egwene sends an offer to King Roedran to bring him and his army to the Field of Merrilor but he does not respond. (ToM,Ch56)

• WH,Ch9 - Halwin Norry reports to Elayne that King Roedran is building an army in Lugard. Elayne already knows this from Egwene.
  
• WH,Ch32 - While Rand listens in The Golden Wheel, a Far Madding trader tries to convince Master Azereos that Roedran building his army has Murandy too unsettled for him to move his trade to Lugard.
  
• CoT,Ch14 � Reene Harfor identifies a spy in the Royal Palace who reports to King Roedran.
  

no way that all of those are coincidences with all the info known on Demandred. im most likely waaayyy to late in bringing any of this up but hey...i got excited when i added the two together hahah

[Suttree]

King Roedran (possibly a Forsaken in disguise): 3 to 1

 

 

im convinced that Roedran is Demandred. it has to be! 1000 bloody andoran marks on that!

 

Egwene sends an offer to King Roedran to bring him and his army to the Field of Merrilor but he does not respond. (ToM,Ch56)

• WH,Ch9 - Halwin Norry reports to Elayne that King Roedran is building an army in Lugard. Elayne already knows this from Egwene.
  
• WH,Ch32 - While Rand listens in The Golden Wheel, a Far Madding trader tries to convince Master Azereos that Roedran building his army has Murandy too unsettled for him to move his trade to Lugard.
  
• CoT,Ch14 � Reene Harfor identifies a spy in the Royal Palace who reports to King Roedran.
  

no way that all of those are coincidences with all the info known on Demandred. im most likely waaayyy to late in bringing any of this up but hey...i got excited when i added the two together hahah

 

Even more so his apparent change from a dissolute ruler to brilliant tactician...

 

tPoD Ch. 18

Egwene made a vexed sound. It was a remarkable plan, the sort of thing Siuan might devise, and hardly a scheme she thought Roedran Almaric do Arreloa a’Naloy could carry off. The fellow was said to be so dissolute he made Mat look wholesome. But then, it was hardly a scheme she would have believed Roedran could think up.

[FarShainMael]

Ah yes. Gitara 'of-course-I'm-not-a-DF' Moroso.

Is this another theory along the lines of Bashere? She has done far more for the light than most AS in the story. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I'd really like to know exactly why she sent Luc and Tigraine away. But rather than hijack this thread, I'll try to find where we've discussed this previously. If I can't, I'll start a new thread on the subject.

 

ETA: Perhaps you remember this thread. There's quite a lot about Gitara from various people, starting at this post roughly:

 

http://www.dragonmou...20#entry1948363

 

(AAArrgh paras messed up AGAIN!!)

[Graendals favourite]

On Demandred being Roedran, there's also Talmanes' account on them crossing those mountains. The way it was worded, no way was it an accident that the crossing was closed while they were halfway through.

 

*I mean crossing to Altara in the Knife of Dreams.

[randsc]

King Roedran (possibly a Forsaken in disguise): 3 to 1

 

 

im convinced that Roedran is Demandred. it has to be! 1000 bloody andoran marks on that!

 

Egwene sends an offer to King Roedran to bring him and his army to the Field of Merrilor but he does not respond. (ToM,Ch56)

• WH,Ch9 - Halwin Norry reports to Elayne that King Roedran is building an army in Lugard. Elayne already knows this from Egwene.
  
• WH,Ch32 - While Rand listens in The Golden Wheel, a Far Madding trader tries to convince Master Azereos that Roedran building his army has Murandy too unsettled for him to move his trade to Lugard.
  
• CoT,Ch14 � Reene Harfor identifies a spy in the Royal Palace who reports to King Roedran.
  

no way that all of those are coincidences with all the info known on Demandred. im most likely waaayyy to late in bringing any of this up but hey...i got excited when i added the two together hahah

 

Even more so his apparent change from a dissolute ruler to brilliant tactician...

 

tPoD Ch. 18

Egwene made a vexed sound. It was a remarkable plan, the sort of thing Siuan might devise, and hardly a scheme she thought Roedran Almaric do Arreloa a’Naloy could carry off. The fellow was said to be so dissolute he made Mat look wholesome. But then, it was hardly a scheme she would have believed Roedran could think up.

 

While I happen to agree that Roedran is probably Demandred, I don't think this quote is good evidence of that fact. I consider this quote from Egwene to be one of the funnier lines in the entire series. Mat, after all, is capable of "remarkable plans." This just reveals that a little bit of the somewhat priggish village girl still remains in Egwene. Which is actually one of the (very, very, very) few endearing things about her.

[Barid Bel Medar]

While I happen to agree that Roedran is probably Demandred, I don't think this quote is good evidence of that fact. I consider this quote from Egwene to be one of the funnier lines in the entire series. Mat, after all, is capable of "remarkable plans." This just reveals that a little bit of the somewhat priggish village girl still remains in Egwene. Which is actually one of the (very, very, very) few endearing things about her.

 

Heh, I agree with your interpretation of the quote.

 

I don't think Roedran is actually Demandred, but rather his proxy, probably a Darkfriend, taking orders from Demandred. I say this because, one, Sammael's comment about him liking proxies, and if Demandred actually was Roedran it would be far more talked about, Sammael, Rhavin and Be'lal were unmistakable, but Murandy and Roedran is like an afterthought, nobody thinks "wow, this guy is crazily brilliant, seems like a Forsaken." Likely Roedran is still an incompetent fop, which would put people off his trail, and just has flashes of brilliance, or good advisors (which is actually just following Demandred's orders). Unless Demandred is some kind of George Clooney and is a magnificent actor, I think the change would be too radical not to notice.

 

Besides, the Forsaken haven't actually pretended to be someone else. They are mostly mysterious new people that have gained great influence, but nobody actually knows where they came from. They haven't actually killed and taken over a person's identity. (Unless you count Moridin=Taim, I suppose, and not sure if Graendal did it, or just made up her own person) Edit: as mentioned, Mesaana did.

[Chesus]

Actually, Mesaana did exactly that.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Oh yeah, Mesaana. A bit different to what I meant though. She was trying to hide and blend in with the Aes Sedai. Not take over a nation. The situation worked for Mesaana, it wouldn't for Demandred. Specially if the guy is not respected, why would you impersonate an idiot? It would make it too obvious.

[Terez]

Elayne had a similar thought, so I don't think that really explains it. And most of what Egwene knows about Roedran (probably all) comes from Siuan.

[Clayden69]

Elayne had a similar thought, so I don't think that really explains it. And most of what Egwene knows about Roedran (probably all) comes from Siuan.

 

 

Most of everything Egwene knows comes from Siuan, well, that is a stretch but evreything she knows about different AS and monarchs/rulers

[randsc]

Elayne had a similar thought, so I don't think that really explains it. And most of what Egwene knows about Roedran (probably all) comes from Siuan.

 

Another prig, who is shocked to discover that someone not conforming to her notions of proper behavior can be competent. I do think Elayne is further along, though.

[Terez]

Elayne had a similar thought, so I don't think that really explains it. And most of what Egwene knows about Roedran (probably all) comes from Siuan.

 

Another prig, who is shocked to discover that someone not conforming to her notions of proper behavior can be competent. I do think Elayne is further along, though.

 

I should probably mention that Norry was also in on it.

[randsc]

Elayne had a similar thought, so I don't think that really explains it. And most of what Egwene knows about Roedran (probably all) comes from Siuan.

 

Another prig, who is shocked to discover that someone not conforming to her notions of proper behavior can be competent. I do think Elayne is further along, though.

 

I should probably mention that Norry was also in on it.

 

Fine. Another prig. Bottom line, just because someone is "dissolute" in their personal habits does not mean they are not competent. Or even brilliant.

[Suttree]

Elayne had a similar thought, so I don't think that really explains it. And most of what Egwene knows about Roedran (probably all) comes from Siuan.

 

Another prig, who is shocked to discover that someone not conforming to her notions of proper behavior can be competent. I do think Elayne is further along, though.

 

I should probably mention that Norry was also in on it.

 

Fine. Another prig. Bottom line, just because someone is "dissolute" in their personal habits does not mean they are not competent. Or even brilliant.

 

Come on mate, Suian and Norry at the least would both be able to comment on what type of ruler he has been in the past. These new moves coming out of Murandy are a marked change. All of these people have noticed and it's not just because they are prigs and he is some libertine.

 

ETA: Perhaps you remember this thread. There's quite a lot about Gitara from various people, starting at this post roughly:

 

http://www.dragonmou...20#entry1948363

 

Thanks for that FSM. It's so funny how many discussions I have totally forgotten about, that was nice to go back and read.

[mbuehner]

I don't think Roedran is actually Demandred, but rather his proxy, probably a Darkfriend, taking orders from Demandred. I say this because, one, Sammael's comment about him liking proxies, and if Demandred actually was Roedran it would be far more talked about, Sammael, Rhavin and Be'lal were unmistakable, but Murandy and Roedran is like an afterthought, nobody thinks "wow, this guy is crazily brilliant, seems like a Forsaken." Likely Roedran is still an incompetent fop, which would put people off his trail, and just has flashes of brilliance, or good advisors (which is actually just following Demandred's orders).

 

This.

 

The problem with the Roedran=Demandred idea is motive. Demandred is said to be the Dark's big go-to guy at this point, he's the best general they have left. Say Murandy fielded 40 or 50,000 troops... great. Thats at best 1/100th of the trollocs and fades boiling out of the blight.

 

What could that army possibly do? Sure you could gate them into a critical fight, but are they going to attack an army of humans fighting an army of trollocs no matter what they were ordered? Unless of course you think Demandred has spent months of time compelling thousands of green human soldiers (cue Herid Fel eyebrow waggle).

 

And any army that isn't currently or within a very short time fighting trollocs is pretty irrelevant anyway (oh no, the stone of tear fell while we were winning TG, who cares?). Even if they gate into Caemlyn... so what? What can that army do that would be game changing?

 

I think Roedran could well be a darkfriend, and his army could well turn up at some unfortunate junction, but its much more likely to be an 'oh too bad' moment than an 'all is lost, is it too late to take some Dark One vows?' moment. And Demandred is much too valuable to relegate to that role. I think he's much more likely to be out coordinating the overall Dark armies and pulling strings from afar... that is especially appealing if Moridin is Taim and busy coordinating channelers (surely somebody has to be coordinating the conventional armies).

[Terez]

I don't think Roedran is actually Demandred, but rather his proxy, probably a Darkfriend, taking orders from Demandred. I say this because, one, Sammael's comment about him liking proxies, and if Demandred actually was Roedran it would be far more talked about, Sammael, Rhavin and Be'lal were unmistakable, but Murandy and Roedran is like an afterthought, nobody thinks "wow, this guy is crazily brilliant, seems like a Forsaken." Likely Roedran is still an incompetent fop, which would put people off his trail, and just has flashes of brilliance, or good advisors (which is actually just following Demandred's orders).

 

This.

 

The problem with the Roedran=Demandred idea is motive. Demandred is said to be the Dark's big go-to guy at this point, he's the best general they have left. Say Murandy fielded 40 or 50,000 troops... great. Thats at best 1/100th of the trollocs and fades boiling out of the blight.

 

The motive is simple. Like Demandred said, Sammael always had to have every eye on him, and look what it got him. Murandy gave Demandred a power base that wasn't likely to draw Rand's attention, because no one cares about Murandy. Also, Murandy's forces are underestimated because of the historic division within the country, but ultimately I think that Murandy's army was only a small piece of the advantage for Demandred in setting up shop there.

 

And any army that isn't currently or within a very short time fighting trollocs is pretty irrelevant anyway (oh no, the stone of tear fell while we were winning TG, who cares?). Even if they gate into Caemlyn... so what? What can that army do that would be game changing?

 

I tend to think they will be a relatively small piece of the action at Caemlyn.

 

Also, the reason we think that Demandred is actually posing as Roedran is because comments from RJ and Brandon indicate that he does indeed have an alter ego, and that we should be able to figure it out from clues in the books. We know he's a ruler, and we know his alter ego hasn't been seen on screen (with the very remote possible exception of TGS).

[randsc]

Elayne had a similar thought, so I don't think that really explains it. And most of what Egwene knows about Roedran (probably all) comes from Siuan.

 

Another prig, who is shocked to discover that someone not conforming to her notions of proper behavior can be competent. I do think Elayne is further along, though.

 

I should probably mention that Norry was also in on it.

 

Fine. Another prig. Bottom line, just because someone is "dissolute" in their personal habits does not mean they are not competent. Or even brilliant.

 

Come on mate, Suian and Norry at the least would both be able to comment on what type of ruler he has been in the past. These new moves coming out of Murandy are a marked change. All of these people have noticed and it's not just because they are prigs and he is some libertine.

 

ETA: Perhaps you remember this thread. There's quite a lot about Gitara from various people, starting at this post roughly:

 

http://www.dragonmou...20#entry1948363

 

Thanks for that FSM. It's so funny how many discussions I have totally forgotten about, that was nice to go back and read.

 

All that either of them knew about Roedran was that he formerly had little power outside of Lugard. He has been King for only a very short time, right? Suian has no special knowledge of him. As recently as 3-4 years prior to today (in the books), the Tower was trying to unify Murandy under Dulain, yes? Roedran simply took advantage of changing conditions to improve his political situation, like several other monarchs, including Egwene. The only reason Egwene is surprised is because she cannot reconcile his personal habits with his political accumen. Hell, why else even think about his reputation, in that POV?

 

Still, Roedran is Demandred.

[Suttree]

All that either of them knew about Roedran was that he formerly had little power outside of Lugard. He has been King for only a very short time, right? Suian has no special knowledge of him. As recently as 3-4 years prior to today (in the books), the Tower was trying to unify Murandy under Dulain, yes? Roedran simply took advantage of changing conditions to improve his political situation, like several other monarchs, including Egwene. The only reason Egwene is surprised is because she cannot reconcile his personal habits with his political accumen. Hell, why else even think about his reputation, in that POV?

 

Still, Roedran is Demandred.

 

You don't think people like Norry and Siuan would have info on all the powerful nobles even if they are not King? The very fact that Siuan was trying to unite Murandy under one backs that point. All of these events going on show a marked change from the person they knew of before.

[yoniy0]

He was King for only a short time? How did we come to that conclusion?

 

I was under the impression the thing with Siuan, Morgase and Bryne went down many years before Winternight.

[randsc]

3 years prior to the story being recounted, in tFoH.