What is the deal with the Egwene-hate?

[muddasssir]

see I again wonder if we are all reading the same books. One of the main reason people have always hated Egwene is due to her sweeping statements and how often she backs out of it. I can tell innumerable incidents where she said something and than backed out at a later stage. This is looking more and more like one more incident where she will have to eat her words. I maintain that we hate Egwene is one of the reasons we love this series. Haven't you ever known a person who is a good person basically, he or she will help those who needs help but you just can't stand being near that person. It has happened to me. As for Rand I vowed that I am not going to comment on people who are going to compare Rand with Egwene. I do not know how many of you are married but whenever me and my wife are fighting and she does not have anything to say she is going to start on something totally different that had no bearing on the reason we were fighting for. You people are doing something similar. I think Cadusane says it to borderlanders "If you put a burden of an entire age on a man and then something about knocking down the wall when reconstructing" Again If someone is kind enough to give the exact quote. I am asking this question of all of you and if you have any guts please do answer do any of you SERIOUSLY think that Egwene has faced or done even anything remotely close to what Rand had to face and do?

[Kahsm]

see I again wonder if we are all reading the same books. One of the main reason people have always hated Egwene is due to her sweeping statements and how often she backs out of it. I can tell innumerable incidents where she said something and than backed out at a later stage. This is looking more and more like one more incident where she will have to eat her words. I maintain that we hate Egwene is one of the reasons we love this series. Haven't you ever known a person who is a good person basically, he or she will help those who needs help but you just can't stand being near that person. It has happened to me. As for Rand I vowed that I am not going to comment on people who are going to compare Rand with Egwene. I do not know how many of you are married but whenever me and my wife are fighting and she does not have anything to say she is going to start on something totally different that had no bearing on the reason we were fighting for. You people are doing something similar. I think Cadusane says it to borderlanders "If you put a burden of an entire age on a man and then something about knocking down the wall when reconstructing" Again If someone is kind enough to give the exact quote. I am asking this question of all of you and if you have any guts please do answer do any of you SERIOUSLY think that Egwene has faced or done even anything remotely close to what Rand had to face and do?

 

You think running the White Tower, having barely left your teens, and with a minute amount of trianing/experience is a walk in the park? And do you not think Egwene has, rightly or wrongly, taken on much of Rand's burden to herself? Whether proper or not, she most certainly believes the WT is important to the last battle, or at least keeping people together in the aftermath, and that is certainly not a small task either.

 

Dismissing Egwene as just some spoiled girl who can't be compared to Rand would be like me saying Rand has spent most of the books either hiding from his enemies or being pampered in palaces and manor homes, and that's not nearly as difficult as fighting a civil war inside the WT, mending it, and building it back to splendor. The simplification is true, but it misses Rand's real challenges completely. Just as you've abstracted out Egwene's.

 

I'm not saying they're equal, but the both have enormous pressure. So you can't suggest that Egwene has no excuses for anything while Rand can get away with anything and still be loved for it. Which it seems you were trying to do.

 

@Master Ablar: Egwene needs to plan to oppose him. She cannot show up to FOM having done nothing and not be prepaired to stop him if he does turn out to be insane. And she cannot second guess herself about every decision. If it becomes obvious that Rand is right and she is wrong, and she still sticks to her opposition, I will join you in condemning her. But for now, she's on the reasonable and responsible track.

 

You seem to suggest there's some middle ground she should be on, that she should sit on the fence and do nothing until she has perfect information. Well that's not possible. He said he's going to break the seals at FOM, so she can't wait until then and not have a possible way to stop him. Thus... opposition plan is in motion. If Rand finally gives her something else to work with, then she can easily turn around and support him. She's not past some point of no return. She hasn't sent anyone to abduct him or anything like that. She's preparing for what she (reasonably and responsibility) believes is the most likely situation -- that he's on the wrong track.

 

Enter Nynaeve to convince her NOT to put any opposition plan in motion? Well there's no reason to put so much clout into what she says, particularly when she could be magically biased. Also, opposing Rand as far as Egwene plans to, is not going to hurt if it turns out to be unnecessary, as Suttree has pointed out. So again, it's really the only responsible path.

 

I think all you're asking for is some Egwene PoV, in her head, that goes something like this: "Rand could be correct in this, if he really does have a plan, but I have a responsibility to the Tower, to the world, to take the responsible path. And that wool headed sheep herder has given me no other option." Something like that?

 

I'm sorry it's not there, but it's strongly implied by her relatively weak plan to oppose him at FOM. There are things she could do right now if she planned to stop him without any further consideration. That's not happening. So there's no reason to assume the worst.

[Suttree]

Again If someone is kind enough to give the exact quote. I am asking this question of all of you and if you have any guts please do answer do any of you SERIOUSLY think that Egwene has faced or done even anything remotely close to what Rand had to face and do?

 

Not sure who is comparing the two? What we are doing is showing why Egwene was doing her duty in questioning the actions of an insane(until recently) individual showing up at the WT saying he is going to break the seals and offering no further plan.

[Manscher]

The whole issue is Suttree, she's not questioning it at all, she does not for one second sit dow and begin to actually think about it. She just flatout rejects his idea and plan to oppose. That is what people are arguing against.

[Suttree]

The whole issue is Suttree, she's not questioning it at all, she does not for one second sit dow and begin to actually think about it. She just flatout rejects his idea and plan to oppose. That is what people are arguing against.

 

Right but if you follow the debate everyone agrees she is going to listen to him at the FoM. So what does that opposition really amount to? I mean people get all indignant like how dare she question the savior and act like she has actively fouled up his chances. I have said it so many times but if Min figures out the answers and Rand then passes it on and lays out the plan there will be no conflict.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Suttree

[muddasssir]

Ok where did she say that she is going to listen to what Rand has to say? I did not read it in any of the books so please enlighten my poor soul and give me the quote.

Edited April 1, 2012 by muddasssir

[Suttree]

Ok where did she said that she is going to listen to what Rand has to say? I did not read it in any of the books so please enlighten my poor soul and give me the quote.

 

ToM

"Then meet with me at the place known as the Field of Merrilor, just to the north. We will talk before I go to Shayol Ghul. For now, I do not want to defy you, Egwene. But I must go."

 

Neither of them looked away. The others in the room seemed not to breathe. The chamber was still enough for Egwene to hear the faint breeze making the rose window groan in its lead.

 

"Very well," Egwene said. "But this is not ended, Rand."

 

 

So unless you think she will show up to the meeting and refuse to allow him to explain his plan that is the next step.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Suttree

[randsc]

- Egwene had Rand shielded and surrounded by hundreds of Aes Sedai. If she wanted to stop him right away, she could have kept him in the WT. She had a strong justification since he announced that he'll break the seals. I don't think A.S. would have objected to that.

 

She doesn't think so. She said so explicitly.

 

She said it so to Silviana, a Red, to justify letting him go. The laws governing the OP in the books state clearly that a circle of 13 maintained by the 13 will shield any male channeler and cannot be broken. Rand's time in Galina's box is another proof. That's how I understand the issue. If it doesn't work that way, I'd like to read more on it.

 

So she lied? Interesting. Logically, it follows that she must be Black. I thought you liked Egwene?

[Manscher]

Ok where did she said that she is going to listen to what Rand has to say? I did not read it in any of the books so please enlighten my poor soul and give me the quote.

 

ToM

"Then meet with me at the place known as the Field of Merrilor, just to the north. We will talk before I go to Shayol Ghul. For now, I do not want to defy you, Egwene. But I must go."

 

Neither of them looked away. The others in the room seemed not to breathe. The chamber was still enough for Egwene to hear the faint breeze making the rose window groan in its lead.

 

"Very well," Egwene said. "But this is not ended, Rand."

 

 

So unless you think she will show up to the meeting and refuse to allow him to explain his plan that is the next step.

 

 

I'll counter with some of the very last thoughts she have before the end of ToM

 

She would have to contact their two rules and see if she could sway them to her way of thinking. But even if not, surely what she had gathered would be enough to convince Rand to change his plans. Light send it was enough. She didn't want to think of what would happen if he force her hand.

 

Does that sound like somebody who's just "questioning" him? Who have even considered listening to him at all?

 

Sure, she goes to FoM to discuss it with him, but not with the intentions of listening to him.

 

It's basically the same as to enter a discussion with another person saying "If you do not submit to my opinion, I will hit you in the face"

Edited April 1, 2012 by Manscher

[kght22]

i'm still just wondering what exactly aran'gar did to egwene. he/she couldnt have realy gotten all that much information out of her that he/she didnt already know. is there some subtle compulsion at play here? if there is, will nyn catch it? and if there isnt, will rand be able to convince egwene to trust him? if there is compulsion at play it seems extremely unlikely that he could, and a subtle compulsion could be as simple as "don't trust rand", and it wouldn't have drasticly changed her. but the compulsion could have that and "you are the amyrlin" and given her the strength to survive in her captivity.

 

i post this just because i dont think aran'gar's influence on egwene is over, and i think it might be a suprise just how powerful that influence has been.

[MasterAblar]

Anyway it was written to show his ego steamrolling out of control and what can happen when he isn't checked by or doesn't listen to the important people around him thinking he can do it all alone. This continued through the later books and culminated in TGS.

 

Right but she already know he got really bad. Knowing that it was progressive doesn't really change anything for her.

 

His actions were pretty bad considering he knew what was going on with the power being all wonky, dismissed the advice of one of the world's best generals and ended up slaughtering his own forces because of these bad decisions.

 

Of course, but like I said, Bashere did not know that Rand had Callandor, and with Callandor Rand's victory seemed certain. That he choose not to tell Bashere he had Callandor was perhaps the greater mistake.I wonder what Bashere would have said had he known.

 

I mean seriously, can you imagine if Egwene did something even remotely similar how much the fanbase would be calling for her head.

 

It would be quite spectacular. People give Rand more leeway.

 

I don't see how you would think the rumors of his instability and actions here didn't get out.

 

Well according to Berelaine, it was apparently a great victory for Rand. His instability is well known anyway.

 

But my point is if she listens at the FoM(if Min has found the answer) and they come to an agreement then there is no conflict and she hasn't opposed him in the slightest.

 

Yes but there was still the intention to oppose him. What I disagree with is her mindset, it doesn't matter whether or not there are consequences, just that her mindest has caused the possibility of consequences, something that could have been avoided.

 

If she had gathered the armies for the posibility that Rand needed to be stopped, then no one could have held it against her, because that posibility is real and not something that should be ignored. But by choosing to gather them in order to oppose Rand, she has oppened herself to the possibility that she may be wrong, and if that turns out to be the case, then the leaders can hold that against her, especially if there nations are attacked while their armies are away. They may ask her why she thought Rand needed to be opposed. And she simply doesn't have an answer to that, because she's basing herself on a hope (that Rand can seal the DO without breaking the seals), rather than any actual knowledge.

 

Egwene needs to plan to oppose him. She cannot show up to FOM having done nothing and not be prepaired to stop him if he does turn out to be insane. And she cannot second guess herself about every decision.

 

She needs to plan for the possibility that he needs to be opposed. She should show up at FOM pretty much as she has, ready to stop him if he needs to be, but open to the possibility that he may be right. And this is not "every decision". It's perhaps the key to the Last Battle. She has to be as certain as she can be that she is making the right decision, and I don't see how that possible, seeing as she knows strictly nothing about how to seal the DO. She's just hoping that they don't have to be broken.

 

If it becomes obvious that Rand is right and she is wrong, and she still sticks to her opposition, I will join you in condemning her. But for now, she's on the reasonable and responsible track.

 

I'd be condemning her for something different in that case. That is, for being plain stupid. Right now I'm condemning her for choosing to oppose Rand without good reasons, and for not considering the consequence of said opposition.

 

You seem to suggest there's some middle ground she should be on, that she should sit on the fence and do nothing until she has perfect information. Well that's not possible. He said he's going to break the seals at FOM, so she can't wait until then and not have a possible way to stop him.

 

He said he was going to break the seals after going to SG actually so that's not a risk. If she trust him to show up at the FoM then she might as well trust him to wait until after he's spoken to her before breaking the seals as well. And no she should not do nothing, she should do pretty much what she had done, just without the intention to oppose him, and intention that she has made known to everyone.

 

Thus... opposition plan is in motion. If Rand finally gives her something else to work with, then she can easily turn around and support him. She's not past some point of no return. She hasn't sent anyone to abduct him or anything like that. She's preparing for what she (reasonably and responsibility) believes is the most likely situation -- that he's on the wrong track.

 

It's not like he's continuously refused to tell her anything time and time again. They met once, he told her what he wanted to do, gave her a quick hint why (risk that has to be taken, rubble has to be cleared), and then told her he would talk to her at the FoM. And what makes her believe he's on the wrong track? What knowledge does she have that makes her say that the seals don't have to be broken in order to seal the DO?

 

Enter Nynaeve to convince her NOT to put any opposition plan in motion? Well there's no reason to put so much clout into what she says, particularly when she could be magically biased. Also, opposing Rand as far as Egwene plans to, is not going to hurt if it turns out to be unnecessary, as Suttree has pointed out. So again, it's really the only responsible path.

 

No reason to completely disregard what she says either. She doesn't know what the truth is, so she'd best keep her options open as long as she can. The FoM is the deadline. Once Rand has told her why he wants to break the seals, then she has to make her decision, not before. Being proven wrong against the Dragon Reborn is in itself bad for Egwene, but beyond that if the nations are attacked while their armies are away at Egwene's demand, then she, and through her the WT and the Aes Sedai will be the one blamed.

 

I think all you're asking for is some Egwene PoV, in her head, that goes something like this: "Rand could be correct in this, if he really does have a plan, but I have a responsibility to the Tower, to the world, to take the responsible path. And that wool headed sheep herder has given me no other option." Something like that?

 

More or less, except for the part where she believes she has no other option. Her options are: support, oppose, inform herself.

 

I'm sorry it's not there, but it's strongly implied by her relatively weak plan to oppose him at FOM. There are things she could do right now if she planned to stop him without any further consideration. That's not happening. So there's no reason to assume the worst.

 

How so? At what point has she ever considered that Rand may right?

 

There are things she could do right now if she planned to stop him without any further consideration. That's not happening. So there's no reason to assume the worst.

 

She still believes she can convince him that he's wrong. And what things would those be anyway? She believed that she could not stop him from leaving the WT if he wanted to, so physically stoping him is going to be pretty hard, not to mention really bad for the Light.

[Datakim]

Anyway it was written to show his ego steamrolling out of control and what can happen when he isn't checked by or doesn't listen to the important people around him thinking he can do it all alone. This continued through the later books and culminated in TGS.

 

Right but she already know he got really bad. Knowing that it was progressive doesn't really change anything for her.

 

But should she not know thats not the case anymore? From both Nynaeve and simple common sense. Rand no longer acts mad but the exact opposite, and Egwene should have had a month to learn of this change from her informants. Then there are the strange new effects. Sunlight follows Rand wherever he goes these days. Food does not spoil and even unspoils (Bashere knew about the apples at the start, read the scene with Gawyn) around him. Rand repels darkfriends by his mere presence, and can even drive them mad if he channels. Then there is the barrier of light in his head shielding him from the taint which Nynaeve discovered, and even if Egwene can dismiss her views, she can hardly dismiss such facts. Heck, there is even a scene where she acknowledges that just by visiting Tar Valon, Rand made things better by increasing the food supply and restoring the sun for a time. And when the DO's touch overcomes the city again, she quotes the "Dragon is one with the land" thing to explain it. Should she not maybe realise that the extremely POSITIVE effect Rand now has on that land, even from a brief visit, is an extremely important clue that he is NOT dangerous and insane anymore? Heck, people like the farmer in the start now see Rand covered in an aura of light to contrast the aura of darkness Cadsuane saw before!

 

His actions were pretty bad considering he knew what was going on with the power being all wonky, dismissed the advice of one of the world's best generals and ended up slaughtering his own forces because of these bad decisions.

 

Of course, but like I said, Bashere did not know that Rand had Callandor, and with Callandor Rand's victory seemed certain. That he choose not to tell Bashere he had Callandor was perhaps the greater mistake.I wonder what Bashere would have said had he known.

 

I agree with this. Use of Callandor in smaller and more controlled and strategic strikes would have probably been far safer and more effective, and might have minimized/avoided the negative effects. Rand screwed up here. Though his madness and instinctive fear of Callandor may have played a role. He may have hoped to win without having to resort to Callandor. On the whole though, Rand screwed up. And I seem to recall he himself acknowledges that.

 

I mean seriously, can you imagine if Egwene did something even remotely similar how much the fanbase would be calling for her head.

 

It would be quite spectacular. People give Rand more leeway.

 

Ofcourse. That seems utterly obvious. For the same reason that criminals that are proven by qualified doctors to suffer from mental illnesses are not generally considered as responsible for their actions as those who are sane and competent. Rand has been channeling tainted saidin the entire series, and slowly going insane. He has developed a separate personality in his mind due to that, and later got linked with Moridin. And the fact Min foresaw that pretty much makes it clear that was prophecied to happen by the pattern, rather than Rand screwing up. And then there is the stress and the torture ofcourse, but I think the taint is easily the most obvious "excuse" for Rand. I guarantee to you, that if we get a scene at the start of the next book, where Nynave delves Egwene, only to find that her entire mind is filled with compulsion of the Dark One with thousands upon thousands of dark "thorns" pricking into her brain, 99% of people will instantly give her equal leeway.

[Maleshub]

- Egwene had Rand shielded and surrounded by hundreds of Aes Sedai. If she wanted to stop him right away, she could have kept him in the WT. She had a strong justification since he announced that he'll break the seals. I don't think A.S. would have objected to that.

 

She doesn't think so. She said so explicitly.

 

She said it so to Silviana, a Red, to justify letting him go. The laws governing the OP in the books state clearly that a circle of 13 maintained by the 13 will shield any male channeler and cannot be broken. Rand's time in Galina's box is another proof. That's how I understand the issue. If it doesn't work that way, I'd like to read more on it.

 

So she lied? Interesting. Logically, it follows that she must be Black. I thought you liked Egwene?

 

 

The Sitters pulled themselves to their feet, shaken. Silviana leaned down. "You're right, Mother. He can't be allowed to break the seals. But what are we to do? If you won't hold him captive . . ."

 

 

"I doubt we could have held him," Egwene said. "There's something about him. I . . . I had the sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle."

 

 

With Rand not still out of Tar Valon, Silviana is wondering why Egwene won't hold him captive if she doesn't want him to break the seals. Egwene gives a trademark Aes Sedai answer. It wasn't a lie.

 

"I had a sense he could have broken that shield without a struggle." applies if the thought entered her head (under his ta'veren effect) before being rejected as impossible.

 

That is different from "He could have broken through the shield without difficulty."

 

And we know that the oath against lying doesn't prevent an AS from saying something she believes is true (e.g. Meidani, ferret, when asked by Perava to deny that the Reds set up false dragons).

 

Regardless, the books make it clear that no one can break a circle of 13. So, Egwene could have held Rand captive if she wanted to.

[Suttree]

Does that sound like somebody who's just "questioning" him? Who have even considered listening to him at all?

 

Sure, she goes to FoM to discuss it with him, but not with the intentions of listening to him.

 

It's basically the same as to enter a discussion with another person saying "If you do not submit to my opinion, I will hit you in the face"

 

So we are condemning her for something that could potentially happen in the future? Why don't we wait it out and see how the meeting goes. If she listens to Rand, he gives Egwene a concrete plan from whatever Min finds out and Egwene still decides to try to come against him with force then I will be right there with you in shouting her down.

[Durinax]

Does that sound like somebody who's just "questioning" him? Who have even considered listening to him at all?

 

Sure, she goes to FoM to discuss it with him, but not with the intentions of listening to him.

 

It's basically the same as to enter a discussion with another person saying "If you do not submit to my opinion, I will hit you in the face"

 

So we are condemning her for something that could potentially happen in the future? Why don't we wait it out and see how the meeting goes. If she listens to Rand, he gives Egwene a concrete plan from whatever Min finds out and Egwene still decides to try to come against him with force then I will be right there with you in shouting her down.

you have to admit though that from what we see in her head that she is as stacked against rand as she can without being red. (which is kind of ironic since i can't recall her being offered the red during the uniting the tower dealy)

[Suttree]

Does that sound like somebody who's just "questioning" him? Who have even considered listening to him at all?

 

Sure, she goes to FoM to discuss it with him, but not with the intentions of listening to him.

 

It's basically the same as to enter a discussion with another person saying "If you do not submit to my opinion, I will hit you in the face"

 

So we are condemning her for something that could potentially happen in the future? Why don't we wait it out and see how the meeting goes. If she listens to Rand, he gives Egwene a concrete plan from whatever Min finds out and Egwene still decides to try to come against him with force then I will be right there with you in shouting her down.

you have to admit though that from what we see in her head that she is as stacked against rand as she can without being red. (which is kind of ironic since i can't recall her being offered the red during the uniting the tower dealy)

 

She has already agreed they will talk about it more(quote above). We can not judge her for thinking about a hypothetical situation.

[Ala Rubra]

Regardless, the books make it clear that no one can break a circle of 13. So, Egwene could have held Rand captive if she wanted to.

 

I, on the other hand, just assumed that Egwene was subconsciously recognizing that the pattern would not allow that, not that she actually thought that Rand could break through shielding by 26 sisters. I mean, if she tried to give the order, who knows what would have happened? Perhaps a chunk of poorly repaired ceiling would break and hit her in the head, knocking her out. Perhaps all 26 sisters would spontaneously decide to swear fealty to the Dragon (or maybe just the two leading the circles).

[randsc]

Regardless, the books make it clear that no one can break a circle of 13. So, Egwene could have held Rand captive if she wanted to.

 

I, on the other hand, just assumed that Egwene was subconsciously recognizing that the pattern would not allow that, not that she actually thought that Rand could break through shielding by 26 sisters. I mean, if she tried to give the order, who knows what would have happened? Perhaps a chunk of poorly repaired ceiling would break and hit her in the head, knocking her out. Perhaps all 26 sisters would spontaneously decide to swear fealty to the Dragon (or maybe just the two leading the circles).

 

Exactly. We already have evidence of that sort of twisting of the Pattern, with Cads. Egwene could not have held him.

[Elan Tedronai]

but why did the pattern allow him to be captured like a common criminal in book 6?

[muddasssir]

Come on people you are smart people I have seen the evidence on other post. This is a favorite trick of Egwene lovers they are going to degenerate the debate into a tiny hole and than everyone is going to be talking about that and forgetting the big picture. We do not hate Eggy because she is going to oppose Rand at FoM. I think that time has come to wrap up this debate. I think that without meaning to authors have managed to show her as a power hungry, self centered and stupid little bitch. there are countless examples and incidents that prove this if you do not believe it more power to you as for Elan's post. He had to go through that phase of dark Rand to emerge on the other side there are lots of foreshadowing to this effect with wolves, prophecies and fore tellings.

[Suttree]

I think that without meaning to authors have managed to show her as a power hungry, self centered and stupid little bitch. if you do not believe it more power to you

 

This certainly helps the anti-Egwene crowd seem rational.

 

People claim she is power hungry and yet she was forced into her position. She has managed to consolidate power despite being used as a puppet, is reforming the WT and is working towards what she believes will best help the light. You act as if she is a tyrant who wants power for powers sake and world domination. As for the self centered part we have already provided multiple quotes in this thread showing her to be introspective, admitting to her mistakes/work towards changing them and express thanks and gratitude for her teachers/mentors. In addition Muddasir you have asked for and received quotes from the text that dispute your erroneous viewpoint on this characters actions. Instead of throwing derogatory slurs around maybe you need to reassess at least some of your more extreme views.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Suttree

[Durinax]

1 You act as if she is a tyrant who wants power for powers sake and world domination.

 

2 As for the self centered part we have already provided multiple quotes in this thread showing her to be introspective, admitting to her mistakes/work towards changing them and express thanks and gratitude for her teachers/mentors.

1) No she is focused on gathering power, for the continued world domination of channelling by the WT

2) I am afraid I missed those quotes, could you please quote the bit where she apologizes to nynaeve for treating her badly? As for the respect part, it is obvious she only respects her mentors after she has taken all she wants from them, not before (as shown by the WO training deal, because IMO she shows a huge lack of respect for the WO's when she is sneaking around in TAR)

[Elan Tedronai]

Come on people you are smart people I have seen the evidence on other post. This is a favorite trick of Egwene lovers they are going to degenerate the debate into a tiny hole and than everyone is going to be talking about that and forgetting the big picture. We do not hate Eggy because she is going to oppose Rand at FoM. I think that time has come to wrap up this debate. I think that without meaning to authors have managed to show her as a power hungry, self centered and stupid little bitch. there are countless examples and incidents that prove this if you do not believe it more power to you as for Elan's post. He had to go through that phase of dark Rand to emerge on the other side there are lots of foreshadowing to this effect with wolves, prophecies and fore tellings.

 

wahey we have a lahori here. 'kaysa hai'

 

Anyways you say egwene is power hungry. Do you think a power hungry leader would have an exchange program with the wise ones and the windfinders? Do you think a power hungry leader would take a red, a faction that was loyal to elaida as her keeper? do you think a power hungry leader would berate her own keeper on the dangers of working with male channellers. do you think a power hungry leader wouldnt mind sharing angreal and other objects of power with other female channellers outside Aes sedai organisation? do you think a power hungry leader would suddenly tense, coil up and become a trembling person when offered the position of amyrlin at salidar?

 

If that is a defintion of a power hungry leader then the world needs more of them

[Suttree]

1 You act as if she is a tyrant who wants power for powers sake and world domination.

 

2 As for the self centered part we have already provided multiple quotes in this thread showing her to be introspective, admitting to her mistakes/work towards changing them and express thanks and gratitude for her teachers/mentors.

1) No she is focused on gathering power, for the continued world domination of channelling by the WT

2) I am afraid I missed those quotes, could you please quote the bit where she apologizes to nynaeve for treating her badly? As for the respect part, it is obvious she only respects her mentors after she has taken all she wants from them, not before (as shown by the WO training deal, because IMO she shows a huge lack of respect for the WO's when she is sneaking around in TAR)

 

1. False. Her end goal as evidenced by her inner thoughts about the responsibility she bears is to face the Shadow and reform the WT. Just one example of many...

ToM

Obliquely, she realized what she was doing. She was using Rand's proclamation as a beacon by which to gather and tie the monarchs to the White Tower. They would come to support her arguments against breaking the seals. But in the end, they would serve humankind in the Last Battle.

 

You can argue that she is misguided in thinking AS are best equipped to do this but that is a different conversation entirely. As for continued channeling domination Egwene claims flat out those days are gone and with the channeling exchange program has placed everyone on equal ground. Not exactly the actions of someone who wants to ensure "domination". If you truly believe these things back them up with quotes as I have done instead of tossing hyperbole about. Again she has done more to positively change the WT in her short time than anyone since the Trolloc Wars.

 

2. Who said anything about the Nyn situation? Her actions there were reprehensible although I do find it somewhat funny that the fan base is so outraged on Nyn's behalf for something that doesn't bother her in the slightest. As for the other quotes go back and read the thread. I don't need to provide them a second time.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Suttree

[MasterAblar]

Come on people you are smart people I have seen the evidence on other post. This is a favorite trick of Egwene lovers they are going to degenerate the debate into a tiny hole and than everyone is going to be talking about that and forgetting the big picture. We do not hate Eggy because she is going to oppose Rand at FoM. I think that time has come to wrap up this debate. I think that without meaning to authors have managed to show her as a power hungry, self centered and stupid little bitch. there are countless examples and incidents that prove this if you do not believe it more power to you as for Elan's post. He had to go through that phase of dark Rand to emerge on the other side there are lots of foreshadowing to this effect with wolves, prophecies and fore tellings.

 

wahey we have a lahori here. 'kaysa hai'

 

Anyways you say egwene is power hungry. Do you think a power hungry leader would have an exchange program with the wise ones and the windfinders? Do you think a power hungry leader would take a red, a faction that was loyal to elaida as her keeper? do you think a power hungry leader would berate her own keeper on the dangers of working with male channellers. do you think a power hungry leader wouldnt mind sharing angreal and other objects of power with other female channellers outside Aes sedai organisation? do you think a power hungry leader would suddenly tense, coil up and become a trembling person when offered the position of amyrlin at salidar?

 

If that is a defintion of a power hungry leader then the world needs more of them

 

It doesn't happen too often, so I would just like to say that I fully agree with Elan here. Egwene is ambitious yes, but she's not power hungry.