Perrin saving Rand's life

[elendil elessar]

Hi all, when looking at the battle at Dumai's Well I can't help thinking that Perrin's action weren't really important in saving the Lord Dragon. I mean the AS holding Rand start tying off the shield before Perrin and his troops get close to them, therefore they must have been distracted by the Shaido and their WO. Then the Ashaman's arrive to the rescue, by then Perrin's force is very likely to get quickly overwhelmed without support and Rand has freed himself and he is clubbing AS right and left. So can this really be the first time Perrin is meant to save Rand? Isn't Taim more likely to be the key player on that rescue, or maybe Rand himself?

[2RiversFan]

I think the thing most people that count Dumai's Wells as one of Perrin's 'two times he must be there to save Rand's life' are missing the fact that his life wasn't in imminent danger by the Shaido or the WT AS. His freedom was at stake, and likely his sanity as well though.

 

The WT AS wanted to keep him caged until Tarmon Gaidon (per Elaida), and the Shaido were fighting to take him for Sevannah. He was in a dangerous place, yes, but none of the combatants wanted him dead.

[elendil elessar]

Well life as HIS might have been in danger and maybe that sort of count, anyway my point is that Perrin did not save Rand's life at Dumai's Well.

[MarkDiLillo]

He had Aes Sedai and a bunch of soldiers with him. He certainly contributed to the rescue in a not-so-insignificant way. Whether or not it would have been successful without him is left up in the air, but I think it's safe to assume that this was one of the times when he had to be there for Rand.

[bbarrett90]

I said this in a previous post where it came up, but it was never said that Perrin needed to SAVE Rand's life. It was just said that twice Perrin would have to be there for him, or something bad would happen.

 

A theory i put forth in that post was that Perrin already was there for him twice, the 2nd time being when he was on top of Dragonmount and witnessed the VoG scene. And it's pretty obvious that something bad could certainly have happened in VoG, whether or not Perrin was there. I didnt get much support for it though, so believe whatever you want.

[FarShainMael]

I thought that myself, and yes, the problem wasn't specifically with Rand's life. See EncWoT:

 

Twice he {Perrin}'s going to have to be there, or you... If he's not, something bad will happen to you. Very bad. It will happen if he is not there, but nothing I saw said it won't because he is. It will be very bad, Rand.

[Caveatar]

Hi all, when looking at the battle at Dumai's Well I can't help thinking that Perrin's action weren't really important in saving the Lord Dragon. I mean the AS holding Rand start tying off the shield before Perrin and his troops get close to them, therefore they must have been distracted by the Shaido and their WO. Then the Ashaman's arrive to the rescue, by then Perrin's force is very likely to get quickly overwhelmed without support and Rand has freed himself and he is clubbing AS right and left. So can this really be the first time Perrin is meant to save Rand? Isn't Taim more likely to be the key player on that rescue, or maybe Rand himself?

 

I agree with your thinking here. The reason for thinking so follows.

Even though Perrin interprets Dumai's Wells as MAYBE the first fulfillment of Min's viewing.

At any rate his musing about her viewing at this point seems to be a clue that it is the place.

 

A Crown of Swords

Old Fear, and New Fear

 

After Dumai's Wells and after Colavaere stripped of crown and nobility.

Rand and Perrin talk.

 

 

The following MAY be the first time that Perrin "had to be there or something bad would happen"---

If Rand had decided to chain or kill the Aes Sedai or make them prisoners then he would be doing what Moridin/Ishamael caused Artur Hawkwing to do to the Aes Sedai: enslave and chain them. If this was a ploy of the DarkOne then it would be a BAD thing for Rand to do it.

 

 

Perrin arguing with Rand about it may be more of 'being there for Rand' than the Dumai's Wells rescue. Light knows that bad stuff had already happened to him in and out of the box and beating and so forth.

_____________________________________________________

"I need to know," Rand said finally. "Are you still unwilling to command the army against Illian? I have to know now." .

"I'm no general," Perrin said raggedly. There would be battles in Illian. Images flashed in his head. Men all around him, and the axe in his hands spinning, hewing his way through. Always more men, however many he cut down, in endless ranks. And in his heart, a seed growing. He could not face that again. He would not.

 

"Besides, I thought I was supposed to stay close to you." That was what Min had said, from one of her viewings.

Twice Perrin had to be there, or Rand would go down to disaster.

Once had been Dumai's Wells, MAYBE, but there was still another to come.

 

"We all must take risks." Rand's voice was very quiet. And very hard. Min peered around the doorframe again,

looking as if she wanted to come to him, but she glanced at Faile and stayed outside. „

 

"Rand, the Aes Sedai...." A smart man would let this lie, probably. He had never claimed to be particularly smart, though.

"The Wise Ones are ready to skin them alive, or near enough. You can't let them be harmed, Rand."

In the corridor, Sulin turned to study him through the doorway.

The man he thought he knew laughed, a wheezing sound. "We all-have to take risks," he repeated.

"I won't let them be hurt, Rand."

Cold blue eyes met his gaze. "You won't let it?"

"I won't," Perrin told him levelly. He did not flinch from that stare, either. "They are prisoners, and no threat. They're women."

"They are Aes Sedai." Rand's voice was so like Aram's back at Dumai's Wells that it nearly took Perrin's breath.

"Rand—"

"I do what I have to do, Perrin." For a moment he was the old Rand, not liking what was happening. For a moment he looked tired to death. A moment only. Then he was the new Rand again, hard enough to mark steel.

 

 

THIS DECISION may be the time that something bad was prevented.

 

 

"I won't harm any Aes Sedai who doesn't deserve it, Perrin. I can't promise more.

 

Since you don't want the army, I can use you elsewhere.

Just as well, really. I wish I could let you rest longer than a day or two, but I can't. There's no time.

No time, and we must do what we must. Forgive me for interrupting you."

_________________________________________________________________

 

 

I personally favor the above as being more likely than what Perrin did at Dumai's Wells.

 

Caveatar

[Finnssss22]

Without Perrin being there and attacking when he did, it's likely that the Shaido overrun the camp, capturing or killing Rand.

[damandred]

Won't Perrin siding with Rand against Egwene and the Tower at tFoM, count as one of the times he has to "be there" for Rand?

[msbee]

Won't Perrin siding with Rand against Egwene and the Tower at tFoM, count as one of the times he has to "be there" for Rand?

 

I think FoM will be occasion no.2 as well, but I'm not sure whether it will be a case of physically saving Rand's life. I can imagine Perrin being a 'voice of reason' in the discussions.

Either coming down against Egwene, who seems to have some plan (I assume, since she was muttering that Rand had better not force her hand in TOM)

Or, calming Rand's reaction to Egwene. But, since we now have Zen Rand, that seems less likely.

[damandred]

Won't Perrin siding with Rand against Egwene and the Tower at tFoM, count as one of the times he has to "be there" for Rand?

 

I think FoM will be occasion no.2 as well, but I'm not sure whether it will be a case of physically saving Rand's life. I can imagine Perrin being a 'voice of reason' in the discussions.

Either coming down against Egwene, who seems to have some plan (I assume, since she was muttering that Rand had better not force her hand in TOM)

Or, calming Rand's reaction to Egwene. But, since we now have Zen Rand, that seems less likely.

 

BS has hinted Demandred will play a part in aMoL, maybe he will turn up at the FoM in the guise of the king of Murandy, and perrin will disrupt his plans to cause trouble.

[jwood01]

Perrin has felt Rand "pulling" on him for sometime. This suggests to me that the pattern is trying to bring Perrin to Rand to fullfill one of these situations.

 

IMHO Rand also needs Mat and Perrin at SG to increase his probability of success. So this would also count as a situation where Perrin needs to be there to prevent disaster.

[bbarrett90]

Perrin has felt Rand "pulling" on him for sometime. This suggests to me that the pattern is trying to bring Perrin to Rand to fullfill one of these situations.

 

IMHO Rand also needs Mat and Perrin at SG to increase his probability of success. So this would also count as a situation where Perrin needs to be there to prevent disaster.

 

Perrin and Mat both have felt Rand "pulling" them, so i dont see that as evidence supporting the claim that it's to bring Perrin specifically to fulfill Min's viewing. It's been said that all three of them need to be at the last battle, and that's all i believe the pulling is coming from.

[Never]

I think the thing most people that count Dumai's Wells as one of Perrin's 'two times he must be there to save Rand's life' are missing the fact that his life wasn't in imminent danger by the Shaido or the WT AS. His freedom was at stake, and likely his sanity as well though.

 

The WT AS wanted to keep him caged until Tarmon Gaidon (per Elaida), and the Shaido were fighting to take him for Sevannah. He was in a dangerous place, yes, but none of the combatants wanted him dead.

 

 

You're forgetting who was behind this whole plot - Mesaana

[Duskfire]

Taim arrived only after Rand had freed himself, which makes me think it was a Forsaken ploy. Rand was only able to free himself because the Aes Sedai got distracted by the Shaido, who in turn got distracted by Perrin and Dobraine. SO yeah, Perrin needed to be there.