Cadsuane

[condonmc]

HI every one, I dont think ill love any thing ever again, as much as i love these books....but Cadsuane is killing it for me!

Its so unbeleiveable how she treats rand by slapping him i need help or im going to burst!

[MasterAblar]

HI every one, I dont think ill love any thing ever again, as much as i love these books....but Cadsuane is killing it for me!

Its so unbeleiveable how she treats rand by slapping him i need help or im going to burst!

 

Keep reading...

[master]

I can't wait until cad meets mat and his little friend around his kneck. he'll probably flip her over and hit her worse than joline.

[The Fisher King]

Hey, Jarlaxle! First Post, hah? Well, welcome! :)

 

I personally have never understood the 'Anti-Cadsuane' sentiment here. I LOVE Cads. In fact, if you'd like to know the truth, she is one of my favorite characters - definitely Top Ten.

 

To me, she may be the most effective and efficient character ever. Too many of them wallow in sellf-pity are seem almost scared to get things done. Cads gets TO IT! One of my favorite scenes ever is that one part in that one book where she totally puts that one character in her place and is all like ''If you EVER touch me again...!'' Another awesome time is when she marches right into that one town and breaks that chick's crown to get Rand back after he'd gotten himself Dragon-Napped...AGAIN!!! She pretty much single-handedly saved the day at the end of WH during The Cleaning. And she was cold as ice, ice, ICE, baby, with Semi! ''Howdy; nice to meet ya - lookin forward to chattin!'' LOL!!!

 

Rand would probably be dead long ago without her.

 

 

Fish

[XXX]

HI every one, I dont think ill love any thing ever again, as much as i love these books....but Cadsuane is killing it for me!

Its so unbeleiveable how she treats rand by slapping him i need help or im going to burst!

 

Keep reading..don't worry Rand scares the living beegees out of Cads in one of the greatest scenes in WoT.

[narg75]

On my first reads of the book, I LOVED Cad. However, on re-reads not so much. I am not in the anti-Cad camp by any means, but I find some of her actions disturbing at times. But it all comes down to one major "flaw" with the characters in the books. They don't frikin talk to each other and keep so many frikin secrets. I know, you can make the case for some of that, and for good reason. But come one, you know a core people you can trust with your life, as it was proven over and over again but you don't let them in your your plans. The Last Battle is comeing. Then again, when you look at real life, the same frikin thing happens as well. But keep reading, Cad is AWSOME. There is a reason she is reguarded as a legend, and you find out some tricks of her's that are so simple, that people think she is "god-like", like the mirror, I always chuckle when I read that.

[SylvanFox]

On my first reads of the book, I LOVED Cad. However, on re-reads not so much.

 

That's funny, I had kinda the opposite effect. First read, I HATED her. But on the re-reads, I liked her much more... Still like it when Rand hands it to her, though!

[Morsker]

I mostly decline to take Cadsuane seriously; I see her more as an expression of author bias than as a character in the story. Robert Jordan apparently liked hazing, bullying and other disrespect of young people. He associates maturity with cruelty. I find it offensive, and I won't take excuses for it, not anymore than I'll take excuses for H. P. Lovecraft's racism, or other things of that sort. When I enjoy the works, it's in spite of these things. I can't overlook them.

 

It's unfortunate that this aspect of WoT escapes criticism because "gender" consumes so much bandwidth. WoT is really, really bad about glorifying cruelty.

[SylvanFox]

I mostly decline to take Cadsuane seriously; I see her more as an expression of author bias than as a character in the story. Robert Jordan apparently liked hazing, bullying and other disrespect of young people. He associates maturity with cruelty.

 

Just wanted to say... just because he wrote some characters like that doesn't mean it truly reflects his philosophy... Matter of fact, I think he wrote people that way to further one of his favorite points- you can't be right all the time, and thinking you are just makes you look like an ass. As a writer myself, I can honestly say that sometimes you will HAVE TO write characters that disagree with you and your philosophies. If you don't write characters you hate, you're going to write some pretty boring material.

[Shawnchan]

On my first reads of the book, I LOVED Cad. However, on re-reads not so much.

 

That's funny, I had kinda the opposite effect. First read, I HATED her. But on the re-reads, I liked her much more... Still like it when Rand hands it to her, though!

 

Yeah, me too.

 

Hated her the first time, now I love her.

 

@ Morsker.

 

I think that this was all contrived to wring these emotions out of us/you.

 

So good author/bad reader.

[condonmc]

Thanks Friends , I am taking [Master Ablar] words seriously and am reading like crazy! on book 10 just about to start. Winters Heart was good really good. I started Eye of the word two and half weeks ago and have been so consumed over this world and characters that it has taken over reality and im not sure i no witch world i really live in any more......am i the only one?

 

 

I am he who rules the world

[condonmc]

.........

[SylvanFox]

Thanks Friends , I am taking [Master Ablar] words seriously and am reading like crazy! on book 10 just about to start. Winters Heart was good really good. I started Eye of the word two and half weeks ago and have been so consumed over this world and characters that it has taken over reality and im not sure i no witch world i really live in any more......am i the only one?

 

 

I am he who rules the world

 

Nope, I spend entirely too much time in Randland!!! I can probably tell you more about Caemlyn than the city I live in!!!

 

(that would be sad if I wasn't already an irredeemable nerd)

[JKN-SW]

I just love when Tam makes her stand down by telling her what he thinks about her. "A bully is always a bully". She never tries to argue with him, cause she knows he is right.

 

And she could easily have been as awesome as she have from time to time, even if she treated others with a tiny little bit of respect that many actually deserve. I find her lack of respect towards others especially annoying as she demands unlimited respect for herself. What a hypocrit!

[Marta Sedai]

I just love when Tam makes her stand down by telling her what he thinks about her. "A bully is always a bully". She never tries to argue with him, cause she knows he is right.

 

And she could easily have been as awesome as she have from time to time, even if she treated others with a tiny little bit of respect that many actually deserve. I find her lack of respect towards others especially annoying as she demands unlimited respect for herself. What a hypocrit!

 

I loved that scene! And when she used power on Tam, I wanted to hit her! he told her right! She is a bully, and I don't like her. Yes, she wants to help rand, and she saved him so many times and bla bla bla... but she doesn't tell me things he needs to know! How is he to save the world, if people keep going behind his back??!!

 

 

I almost cried in the last Rand scene in TGS(finished it a few days ago)!

[Luckers]

Meh. For all that Cadsuane is probably my favourite character, I'd been looking forward to the day Rand faced her down (and for that matter, had I paused to consider it the idea of a Tam and Cadsuane confrontation would have had equal excitement). That being said, what Brandon gave us left a lot to be desired for. Cadsuane acted the dumb bully. Cadsuane was called a dumb bully.

 

It was poorly written--and for all that it held carthartic release for those who hate Cadsuane it was, to be frank, boring. Tam gained nothing--after all, how much credit does it give you to call a fool, 'a fool'?

 

Now Tam facing down the remarkably adaptable [albeit beligerent] Cadsuane that Jordan wrote and notated, as opposed to the dumb [albeit beligerent] one Brandon wrote... that would have been probably one of the best scenes in the series.

[ShenAnCalhar]

The bottom line is Cadsuane wants to be the top dog. Sure she cares about winning the last battle, but she needs to get her hero-worship in the process. And by any means possible - forcing people to her view through petty, childish games, resorting to physical assault when she doesn't get her way. It's obnoxious enough when Rand decides to assert his dominance in similar ways, but at least he has some justification to do so. As Jhinko stated on the topic of respect, she demands it for herself, but treats everyone else like crap. Cadsuane may be great at drinking tea, knitting, and certain political maneuverings (though she almost destroyed the world with her baffling treatment of Rand), but I'm happy that she is being relegated to more of a background role. I thought the Tam confrontation was awesome - to have a person who can't channel be unfazed by assault with the One Power, then call the channeller an idiot and have her feel the lash of the remark is pretty priceless.

 

What this means in the end is that RJ did a great job creating another really polarizing character. When you have so many people on the opposite side of the love/hate line nattering back and forth at one another, you have surely succeeded.

[Mr Ares]

I think it's a shame that Sanderson let his dislike of the character colour his portrayal of her to such an extent.

[jwood01]

On my first read of tGS I was ok with Sanderson's portrayal of Cad's purely because I like seeing people get a comeuppance. However, i am now re-reading it and wow, I now agree his portrayal of her is way off.

 

Not only is the meeting with Tam a disappointment, but her PoV in Bandar Eban shows a serious lack of sophisticated introspection that I would expect from her. She really cannot contemplate that the failure of her little ward on the box containing the male a'dam and the access key was her fault.

[Luckers]

On my first read of tGS I was ok with Sanderson's portrayal of Cad's purely because I like seeing people get a comeuppance. However, i am now re-reading it and wow, I now agree his portrayal of her is way off.

 

Not only is the meeting with Tam a disappointment, but her PoV in Bandar Eban shows a serious lack of sophisticated introspection that I would expect from her. She really cannot contemplate that the failure of her little ward on the box containing the male a'dam and the access key was her fault.

 

I agree that it does lack introspection, and that at that time Cadsuane should have been considering her failures--however I don't really rguard the failure of her ward as 'her fault'. After all, to break it the Shadow employed knowledge and skills unheard of by the Third Agers--by the sound of it, unheard of by most Second Agers as well. Is it really your fault in your enemy employs a startling innovation during war to overcome your wall? Would you blame the first castle that fell to cannon fire as it being the fault of the castle builder?

 

After all, she does no less in guarding the Choedan Kal and the male a'dam than Rand did himself, when he guarded the Choedan Kal. He hid it in his room, and warded it. So did she. Same with Callandor. Warded, and left beyond that, because by everything they knew, or had seen, warding should have been enough. Her warding failed to protect the male a'dam, sure. But it was not, as Rand phrased it, the result of a mistake, and thus, not ultimately 'her fault'.

 

The bottom line is Cadsuane wants to be the top dog.

 

That's a misperception--Cadsuane often is top dog, irrespective of who is in the room, but it doesn't mean that that is her goal, much less her deepest need. Consider for instance the meeting where Cadsuane spanks Rand--not only does she take a complete side-seat, she forces Nynaeve to it also. She only asserts herself when Rand's meglomania grows to the point that she must.

 

The bottom line for Cadsuane, in everything, is the mission.

 

And by any means possible - forcing people to her view through petty, childish games, resorting to physical assault when she doesn't get her way. It's obnoxious enough when Rand decides to assert his dominance in similar ways, but at least he has some justification to do so.

 

Cadsuane does force people to her view through games, and physical assault, it's true. She'll also use reason, when reason works best, will open up, if the exchange of confidences is what will help her mission, and countless other things. She is, as Jordan stated in his notes on her, remarkbly adaptable.

 

The one thing I would disagree on is that distinction you made--that 'at least Rand had some justification'--what justification? Rand's excesses have rarely ever really served a purpose, so I can presume that the justification you claim for him stems from what he is supposedly entitled to as the Dragon? Meh.

 

Cadsuane at least had a mission. She needed to stabalize Rand, and help him mature so that he could bear the weight of his responsibility. Entitlement is a poor justification for anything, but at least Cadsuane had the 'Ends justify the Means' working for her.

 

And that is worth remembering. Cadsuane never just throws her weight around--she always, always has a specific reason and a specific intention. She is not just, as you stated, being top dog in order to be top dog. She's being top dog to get shit done.

 

As Jhinko stated on the topic of respect, she demands it for herself, but treats everyone else like crap.

 

Does she? What of Sorilea? Or Verin? What of Dobraine for that matter.

 

Cadsuane treats people appropriate to their behaviour--so when Rand acts like a brat, she treats him like a brat. But she is perfectly happy to offer the opposite--when someone acts in a way worthy of respect, she grants that respect.

[Suttree]

I think it's a shame that Sanderson let his dislike of the character colour his portrayal of her to such an extent.

 

Agreed, total caricature of her character that had no basis in how complex she is. Luckers is very right in that she treats people appropriate to their behavior and always has an exact reason for doing so.

[Clayden69]

yo people, been MONTHS since i was last on this site, but now I'm back (waits for the booing,hissing and jeering to end, before continuing)

 

To everybody who reads this I hope u all had good xmas and new year, and that this year is bein good to u so far.

 

anyway to the topic at hand...

 

 

Cadsuane; I must say shes 1 of my fave characters, have to agree with Suttree and Luckers when they say she tends to treat people how they deserve to b treated, apart from IMO Nynaeve. But all Aes Sedai tend to have a bad view of wilders and "false" Aes Sedai. Though Nynaeve is probably my fave female character in the series so I might be being biased, and I'll be the first to admit that Nynaeve needs taking down a peg or 2 on occasion

[Majsju]

 

 

Cadsuane; I must say shes 1 of my fave characters, have to agree with Suttree and Luckers when they say she tends to treat people how they deserve to b treated, apart from IMO Nynaeve. But all Aes Sedai tend to have a bad view of wilders and "false" Aes Sedai. Though Nynaeve is probably my fave female character in the series so I might be being biased, and I'll be the first to admit that Nynaeve needs taking down a peg or 2 on occasion

 

I doubt Cadsuanes attitude towards Nynaeve has anything to do with Nynaeve being a wilder, considering Cadsuanes own experience with one particular wilder.

[ShenAnCalhar]

I'll concede that Cadsuane's respect for others is mostly based on their behavior. I will still say she's egotistical and does in fact like to throw her weight around for her own petty causes. For example, why does she get to decide that people can't use the word "bloody" in her presence? She changes up her rules on-the-fly so she can assert her dominance by slapping Rand in the face in front of a bunch of people (and then offers up vague threats at Min over information she has no right to).

 

I don't dislike her as a character, but she definitely loves to be legendary. I disagree that it's all about the mission - there's a bloated ego to feed as well.

[master]

I don't dislike her as a character, but she definitely loves to be legendary. I disagree that it's all about the mission - there's a bloated ego to feed as well.

 

Meh, the second she meets mat her ego will burst ike a popped baloon Remember what hsppned to joline. Though a few weeks under an adam wouldnt hurt either I guess.