Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

one word....Asmodean..... ;-)


spigots or caudrens  

114 members have voted

  1. 1. spigots or caudrens

    • spigots
      24
    • caudrens
      23
    • pie spoon
      45
    • washer woman. shaped washer.
      28

This poll is closed to new votes


Recommended Posts

Guest Egwene

Well... looks like the Asmo is now a thing of the past *sigh* what a pity...

 

Well, for those interested here is the exit poll

 

Graendal 42%  [ 219 ]

Lanfear 13%  [ 68 ]

Moiraine 7%  [ 41 ]

Shadar Haran 11%  [ 61 ]

Moridin 6%  [ 32 ]

another forsaken (post your suggestion 4%  [ 25 ]

anyone else (post your suggestion)  14%  [ 73 ]

Total Votes : 519

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 2.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

It's gone?  Aw.  :(  I voted Graendal back when I first started reading it back in Feb. or March.  (Yes, I read the whole 146 pages on the old board. )  She's the only member of that little cabal free to roam around at the time, and she's got the least going against her.

 

Although, I think Bela is a good possibility.  ;D

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Egwene

You did????  :o

I hereby  declare Amanda to be the most dedicated WoT Fan there has ever been!!!!!!

 

yeah... the postcount didn't transfer and whilst I could edit the one that somehow appeared in it's place, I don't think it would be the same.

Maybe once the initial problems with this new place are sorted,  they might find a way to brig it over. It would be nice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

heehee!  Obviously I'm insane.

 

Meanwhile, I see pie spoons winning by a narrow margin.  There must be some sort of conspiracy against spigots. ;)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have avoided reading this post on this forum and the old one purely because it was always something which I wasnt sure on, I didnt know who i thought it was, and as I am re-reading the series (with the intention of finishing around the time the final book is released so that everything is fresh in mind) I wanted to read this AFTER I had read through his death. Well I've just done that, and I'm still kerfuffled.

 

The books are fresh in my mind, but I have to say that I am perplexed. I have noticed a lot of people suggesting Greandal, but I cannot think why - there has been nothing happening with Greandal in the last book or so... Lanfear and Moiraine, I can see where that comes from but my favourite of those two would be Moiraine. I dont however, think it was either.

 

One of Asmodean's last words was "You?" Which makes me think that he WAS expecting someone, but NOT whoever it was. Which makes me think it WASNT one of the foresaken, as that would be at the top of my 'people to expect to kill me' list if I were Asmodean... Maybe Moiraine but again, a little too obvious.

 

Who else?! I personally think it will turn out to be a darkfriend whom we currently do not suspect... someone popular, who surprised even Asmodean. Not Mat or Aviendha, obviously as he had just left them, and not Sulin as she was with Rand and Davram Bashere. Perhaps one of Davram's group? Or one of the maidens, a Wise One, or one of Mat's noblemen-allies.

 

Are these ridiculous ideas?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have noticed a lot of people suggesting Greandal, but I cannot think why - there has been nothing happening with Greandal in the last book or so...

 

Out of curiousity, why does Graendal's relative lack of involvement in Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams make her an unlikely suspect for Asmodean's murder, which occurred in The Fires of Heaven?  All the Forsaken activity in TFoH centered around a cabal of four ... Lanfear, Rahvin, Sammael ... and Graendal.  The plan which Rand broke up in Caemlyn that day (by killing Rahvin, with Moiraine's prior removal of Lanfear from the scene) directly involved Graendal.

 

As to your other ideas, no they're not ridiculous, in the sense that you haven't created a wierd scenario, but I don't think there is anyone who fits the bill, and could have been in the Royal Palace at the time.

 

I'm not sure that the word "You?" can be construed to denote that he was expecting someone.  We have access to his thoughts at the time.  He was thinking about going to the pantry for some wine, not an impending meeting.  That word (with a question mark) implies a combination of recognition and surprise.  Well, he knows what Graendal looks like, and he certainly wasn't expecting her.  And, he immediately knew this person would kill him, probably before that person made any overt move (since the blood drained from his face before he spoke).  Graendal fits this bill too ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have avoided reading this post on this forum and the old one purely because it was always something which I wasnt sure on, I didnt know who i thought it was, and as I am re-reading the series (with the intention of finishing around the time the final book is released so that everything is fresh in mind) I wanted to read this AFTER I had read through his death. Well I've just done that, and I'm still kerfuffled.

 

The books are fresh in my mind, but I have to say that I am perplexed. I have noticed a lot of people suggesting Greandal, but I cannot think why - there has been nothing happening with Greandal in the last book or so... Lanfear and Moiraine, I can see where that comes from but my favourite of those two would be Moiraine. I dont however, think it was either.

 

One of Asmodean's last words was "You?" Which makes me think that he WAS expecting someone, but NOT whoever it was. Which makes me think it WASNT one of the foresaken, as that would be at the top of my 'people to expect to kill me' list if I were Asmodean... Maybe Moiraine but again, a little too obvious.

 

Who else?! I personally think it will turn out to be a darkfriend whom we currently do not suspect... someone popular, who surprised even Asmodean. Not Mat or Aviendha, obviously as he had just left them, and not Sulin as she was with Rand and Davram Bashere. Perhaps one of Davram's group? Or one of the maidens, a Wise One, or one of Mat's noblemen-allies.

 

Are these ridiculous ideas?

The problem with some of your candidates is that they are not intuitively obvious (I have attempted, in the Structured thread, to lay down what I think RJ means by intuitively obvious, as "it was intuitively obvious to me" is clearly insufficient), and there is no real way that we could guess these people were the murderers, as we should be able to do. Davram's group, for example - how many are named? How many were there? Too many unknowns make this a shaky case at best. And while Asmo may expect one of the Chosen to kill hyim, or make the attempt, he is staying with Rand because that currently gives him his best chance of survival. Is it that likely, in his mind, that one of the Chosen is going to come to the palace that Rand has just taken over (by killing Rhavin) and is swarming with Rand's guards? These people may not have respect for third age channelers in general but they respect Rands ability to kill them. So why would Asmo expect a Chosen then and there? He wouldn't, hence the surprise. And RAW has just put forward what is probably the best intuitive case for any of the suspects, so unless someone can put forward a case which is more intuitively obvious, the we have our killer.
Link to post
Share on other sites

While quickly scanning the pages of LoC I noticed the first Forsaken to actually say that Asmodean is dead is Graendal while talking to Sammael. This is in chapter 5 I think while she is discussing the fate of the other Forsaken dead where she includes "Lanfear and Asmodean despite what you think."

Link to post
Share on other sites

While quickly scanning the pages of LoC I noticed the first Forsaken to actually say that Asmodean is dead is Graendal while talking to Sammael. This is in chapter 5 I think while she is discussing the fate of the other Forsaken dead where she includes "Lanfear and Asmodean despite what you think."

The counter people use to this is that she heard it from Demandred, who heard it from Shai'tan at Shayol Ghul, before meeting Mesaana, Semi, and Graendal. Of course, that still leaves the question of who Shai'tan heard it from (probably the killer), and the slight problem that Semi heard from the same source, but still doubts that Asmo is dead. Is Graendal more trusting than Semi? Or is she just saying that to manipulate Sammael? It's chapter 6, by the way, and a Sammael pov, for anyone interested in looking it up.
Link to post
Share on other sites

187 pages and you all have not figured this out yet?  It's really not that complicated.

 

1) Asmo can still channel...not as much as before, but still plenty.

 

2) Even caught by surprise, he would be quick enough to raise a protective shield if he thought he needed one.  Or he could have acted somehow defensively (wove an air ball, threw some fire, etc.).

 

3) He didn't channel.  He didn't panic.  He said something to the effect of "what the heck are YOU doing here?".  Or maybe it was "what are you doing HERE?".  Or it could have been "whadya think yer DOING here?".  Doesn't really matter.  He was calm.  Relaxed.  He recognized the person (I assume it wasn't an Ogier or such).

 

4) Any of the forsaken showing up would have made him panic.

 

5) He wouldn't talk that way to Rand.

 

6) He and Rand were getting along too well.  He was a threat to the shadow.

 

7) He didn't have time to react or struggle.  It was all over quickly.

 

Who was Asmo travelling with in the caravan into the Waste before his capture?  Who did he talk to in the same manner as above?  Who could have walked up to him casually without startling him and done him in so quickly and easily?  Who belonged in the palace?  Go back about 150 pages to my previous post. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
He didn't channel.  He didn't panic.  He said something to the effect of "what the heck are YOU doing here?".  Or maybe it was "what are you doing HERE?".  Or it could have been "whadya think yer DOING here?".  Doesn't really matter.  He was calm.  Relaxed.  He recognized the person (I assume it wasn't an Ogier or such).

 

Um, the blood drained from his face before he said "You?".  Which he immediately followed with "No!"  He wasn't calm.  He instantly knew that whoever was there, was there to kill him.  And he knew there was nothing he could do about it.

 

Which brings us to your very accurate next point:

 

Any of the forsaken showing up would have made him panic.

 

;D

 

*Walks off whistling Graendal's theme music*

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cyndane(sp?) using mask of mirrors to show she was lanfear?? it lends itself to some forshadow that Lanfear and Mor still live..

 

Or maybe it was Rand from the grassy knoll instead of Lee Harvey from the depository.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cwestervelt

If we can get this thread to be more pages then the book itself, maybe RJ will just come out and say it..

 

It's off to a very good start.  Only another 4 to 5 hundred pages to go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

lol i don't think he will.

 

 

i think he is cracking his head laughing at us still  tring to figure out hu killed him.

 

remember from somewhere that it meant to be obvious.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I take umbrage. You are just jealous that I am wearing a green silk dress made by a middle line tailor in western Ebou Dar.  My cleavage is set off by a perfect oval, with a marriage knife with 3 white pearls in red, and 2 red pearls in white.  I have 6 ruffles, brought up and attached on my right hip. They are green, yellow, red, blue, and purple.  I blush and pull on my braid whenever I think about my girlfriend.  Oh crap.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am now at the point in the books where we get the first extended POVs from some of the Chosen. Currently I am reading from Semhirage, but have also read Graendal and Sammael, and thought it useful to remark on the following;

 

Sammael and Semhirage have both thought to themselves that they wished they knew where Asmodean was, so I think it is not them. Graendal however, I am not so sure it IS her...

 

Sammael - " Have you learned where al'thor is hiding Asmodean? ..."

Graendal - "You know as much as I do," Graendal said blithely, pausing for a sip from her goblet. "Myself, i think Lews Therin killed them."

 

Now I know I may be naive to believe this, but for some reason I think i may believe it - and will more than likely be proven wrong eventually - and so am thinking maybe it WASNT Graendal...

 

Does anyone else see my point?

 

*Cue being shot down in flames by everyone*

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cwestervelt

I've said all along that the Foresaken PoV's indicate none of them were involoved.  Most people won't accept that because they can't accept what it says about who killed Asmodean.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am now at the point in the books where we get the first extended POVs from some of the Chosen. Currently I am reading from Semhirage, but have also read Graendal and Sammael, and thought it useful to remark on the following;

 

Sammael and Semhirage have both thought to themselves that they wished they knew where Asmodean was, so I think it is not them. Graendal however, I am not so sure it IS her...

 

Sammael - " Have you learned where al'thor is hiding Asmodean? ..."

Graendal - "You know as much as I do," Graendal said blithely, pausing for a sip from her goblet. "Myself, i think Lews Therin killed them."

 

Now I know I may be naive to believe this, but for some reason I think i may believe it - and will more than likely be proven wrong eventually - and so am thinking maybe it WASNT Graendal...

 

Does anyone else see my point?

 

*Cue being shot down in flames by everyone*

 

 

I'm glad to see someone else thinking along some of the same lines as myself.  Although I doubt RJ will write it out that LTT killed Asmo... I like to believe he did. 

 

Up until his death the person proclaiming the need for Asmo's death THE MOST is LTT. 

 

Rand had already had some trouble controlling LTT. 

 

There is evidence that suggests LTT might have had a hand in many of the other instances in Rands' channeling.

 

After Asmo's capture,  LTT's memories and thoughts become increasingly stronger in the presence of Asmo.

 

After Rhavin killed Asmo, Mat, and Aviendha, LTT must have been happy to see Assy dead.  After the balefire battle, no doubt LTT would be pissed to see Asmo alive again.

 

Why would LTT think that Asmo would be a better teacher to Rand than Ltt himself?  Also, LTT may not want Rand too strong if he was still contemplating whether or not he could take control of rands body.

 

Additionally, many people say Asmo had to be killed by saidar as opposed to saiden.  I think not.  If Graendal killed him w/saidar, then some wise ones or aviendha or Egwene(i think she was unconcious though) may have fealt it excluding reversed weaves of course.  The only male channelers around at the time was Asmo, Rand/LTT, and shortly after... Taim.

 

Asmo would have probably been in fear if confronted by a forsaken, but relatively calm in the presence of LTT.  Asmo was the only one at the time who had a clue as to how much of the Dragon had been reborn, therefore making him a liability.

 

I don't believe there is any evidence that suggests Asmo would recognize Taim.  He would recognize Rand of course, but even more shocking... HE WOULD DEFINITELY recognize LTT.  Asmo made a thought to himself (srry, don't remember quite where) That he saw more LTT in Rand then he sees Rand in the farmboy anymore.EXTREMELY PARAPHRASED!!!

 

Well, thats all for now and seeing that there is 187 pages dedicated to this and still no true answer, I think LTT is just as likely as a suspect as any other.  Means & Motive & Opportunity rest at Ltt's feat more than any others.

 

I gotta' stick to my guns.  I am probably wrong because there is a list of suspects, but I do enjoy being one of the few out of many that can see the threads that weave this pattern. ;D

 

*Walks off whistling the tune, "TheLionDragon Sleeps Tonight"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...