[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[Nolder]

VOTE NOLDER because... My gut says to.

you mean your vote controller

[Netbattler11]

Wrong, actually. My will is my own, as far as I know.

[mmeeshal]

Yeah, Nol, assuming Kae isn't making her list up (ie, if she wasn't recruited), there was no vote control submitted last night.

 

I dunno about your "cult going after scum under the direction of a former member" theory... I think if the cult can successfully recruit mafia, it might be easier for them to just plan on recruiting only scum for the next few nights. It's also much more advantageous--they increase their numbers at the same time as they're eliminating an enemy faction. So yeah, I get that you didn't say you think that's what's going on, I just wanted to address it--I highly doubt that's what's happening.

 

 

I've been feeling not-good about Wombat for a while.

[Nolder]

Wrong, actually. My will is my own, as far as I know.

really?

hmm that's quite an odd vote then

your gut?

if you say so dude

 

@Meesh: oh yeah I guess so

I missed that on account of worrying more about the cult than the mafia atm

[hazelkrs1]

I think we should seriously consider lynching either BG or Sakaea

the odds one of them was recruited is extremely high even with the WIFOM

based on the fact that Red was still listed as a neighborhood watch I think this cult retains it's previous powers

I'm thinking it would be a really sneaky move to recruit and silence BG on the same day in order to get sakaea lynched

or it could be the mafia just wanted to keep BG quiet and he wasn't recruited

but either way BG'll be dead/recruited/silenced again by tomorrow for sure so I think it's better to just remove him rather than take the chance

also another point in favor of my cult silencer theory

if the mafia still have the power to silence, block, and kill why didn't they block Nyn, kill BG, and silence Sakaea?

seems much better choice than block/killing Nyn and silencing BG

idk

it makes sense to me anyway

 

Vote: BG

 

This makes no sense whatsoever. Even if BG is recruited, as you pointed out in the Seanchan Invasion game in the Aiel (in which you were town), going after cult recruits is asinine when there is still a cult leader alive. Furthermore, seeing as the silence and the recruit probably belong to mafia and cult respectively, the idea of them being used in concert to ostensibly vet BG is ludicrous. Finally, the mafia knows that BG is a cop. They also know that the healer is dead. They would like nothing more than to kill BG without using an NK seeing as cult and town are both threats to them. I say we make the mafia use an NK on BG. I also say if they continue to leave him silenced and alive, that we let them. He will be a player who is confirmed as not cult leader. This kind of play is head-scratching from you, Nolder. I think either you are mafia trying to get BG out of the way, or you are cult trying to save Turin. Tina is also possibly your teammate. The very fact that you are trying to lynch confirmed non cult leaders makes me pretty sure you are scum.

 

Wombat took the words out of my mouth. Really sketchy move Nolder.

 

I don't really have much to go on here, but Turin seems like a good enough candidate to apply pressure to.

my bold.

 

There is WoT Despo, third on the train with not much to go on. Not even a real case. Lazy Despo. pressure applied I guess.

 

I agree it was a lazy case, but in my defense I never did finished with my catchup to the game, so I'm dealing with slightly truncated information. I know we need to be looking very hard for that cultleader, but I don't have a great idea who that might be so for know I'm pretty much happy with shooting my vote in random directions to see if it gets the right reactions. So far, Nolder posted a bizarro type post trying to take out what very well may still be our cop in a possible attempt to get pressure off of you, then said the train on you seemed random. You may or may not be the cultleader, but you could possibly be scum and if we don't have any leads on who the cultleader might be I have no problem with lynching a scum in the meantime. Honestly the cultleader is prob trying to lay low for now, so finding them without some kind of investigative role is going to be a bit tricky. Hopefully we get lucky and the mafia NK them for us

 

I think Sakaea looks the most scummy at the moment. The last day phase was going back and forth between Red and BG. They both stack up and get about halfway to a lynch and that's when Sakaea flips on Red, completely turning the tide against Red.

 

Red flipped Lightsworn turned Dragonsworn... but does that mean Sakaea wasn't already Dragonsworn?

 

It took me forever to read through this whole game... I have no doubts that I "missed out" on the feel of the game in the beginning by just reading everything at one time, but it seemed like Sakaea supported/defended BG for a while, then later claimed Mason when she was the popular lynch candidate, goes against BG when Red is the other target, and flips on Red when those votes against Red keep stacking up.

 

It just seems fishy.

 

Vote Sakaea.

Since I am already monologuing, I just want to say this is ridiculous to me. From Red's coroner report we KNOW she was a town neighborhood watch team with Kae until Red was recruited. In order for Kae to have been Dragonsworn before Red she would have had to have been recruited N2. Based on how Kae was able to smoke out Red for not posting on their QT it seems fairly obvious the same would have occurred day 3 if Kae had been recruited then.

 

I think the only obvious thing to come out of yesterday (aside from there being a cult is that Kae was confirmed as town at that point. She got her list today so it would make sense that she was not recruited last night either.(unless she made up today's list)

 

That this was Kate's first real post of the game is somewhat odd to me. Maybe teammates pointed this direction?

 

You asked to hear from me Kae and I didn't vote you like Corro(Kate) did. and did again.

 

I also thought Kate's post didn't make any sense, but you do have to give her the benefit of the doubt. She just replaced someone else and prob just finished a massive skimming of the game thread and her thoughts might not have made any sense atm. After all, Kae's 180 was a little strange and if not viewed in the right context I can see how Kate would have thought it looked scummy or something

[bhskeeper11]

I think Sakaea looks the most scummy at the moment. The last day phase was going back and forth between Red and BG. They both stack up and get about halfway to a lynch and that's when Sakaea flips on Red, completely turning the tide against Red.

 

Red flipped Lightsworn turned Dragonsworn... but does that mean Sakaea wasn't already Dragonsworn?

 

It took me forever to read through this whole game... I have no doubts that I "missed out" on the feel of the game in the beginning by just reading everything at one time, but it seemed like Sakaea supported/defended BG for a while, then later claimed Mason when she was the popular lynch candidate, goes against BG when Red is the other target, and flips on Red when those votes against Red keep stacking up.

 

It just seems fishy.

 

Vote Sakaea.

Since I am already monologuing, I just want to say this is ridiculous to me. From Red's coroner report we KNOW she was a town neighborhood watch team with Kae until Red was recruited. In order for Kae to have been Dragonsworn before Red she would have had to have been recruited N2. Based on how Kae was able to smoke out Red for not posting on their QT it seems fairly obvious the same would have occurred day 3 if Kae had been recruited then.

 

I think the only obvious thing to come out of yesterday (aside from there being a cult is that Kae was confirmed as town at that point. She got her list today so it would make sense that she was not recruited last night either.(unless she made up today's list)

 

That this was Kate's first real post of the game is somewhat odd to me. Maybe teammates pointed this direction?

 

You asked to hear from me Kae and I didn't vote you like Corro(Kate) did. and did again.

 

I just think the timing of things was a bit fishy. You don't find it at all odd that it was after Red's votes were stacking up into the majority that Sakaea realized what was going on?

 

That was my first real post of the game because it is my first real observation of the game. I italicized my observations as well as the disclaimer that it was difficult to grasp a real "feel" for the game having not participated.

 

After all, Kae's 180 was a little strange and if not viewed in the right context I can see how [Kate would have thought] it looked scummy or something

 

This. And, as I tried to get across in my first post, I think the timing of the 180 was/is worth noting and seemed scummy. I'll Unvote for now, because I can see where fabricating the lists given would have been difficult early in the game, but I don't really have much else to offer at the moment.

 

Hmm...

 

Meesh, care to elaborate on your not-good feeling of Wombat?

 

Same to Maw on your Nolder vote?

 

And, I'll echo Turin...why Ed?

[ed2funy]

Sorry in advance for multiple posts. I can't multi quote on this machine.

There was no protect? does that mean Nyn got blocked? Mafia must have wanted her bad.

 

Obviously I am not silent. I think everyone wants to hear from BG.

 

Turin, this whole post doesn't sit well.

I asked Why in the next post. No answer from Ed. I merely pointed to a fact there was no protect action on last night's list and that would likely mean that Nyn was roleblocked before being killed.( I doubt she would forget to send in her action) This assumes that the mafia had figured her out as doc and intended to take her out.

 

Your "assumptions" can easily be disguised as inside info. You were full of gasconades in that post. XD

[Nolder]

I think we should seriously consider lynching either BG or Sakaea

the odds one of them was recruited is extremely high even with the WIFOM

based on the fact that Red was still listed as a neighborhood watch I think this cult retains it's previous powers

I'm thinking it would be a really sneaky move to recruit and silence BG on the same day in order to get sakaea lynched

or it could be the mafia just wanted to keep BG quiet and he wasn't recruited

but either way BG'll be dead/recruited/silenced again by tomorrow for sure so I think it's better to just remove him rather than take the chance

also another point in favor of my cult silencer theory

if the mafia still have the power to silence, block, and kill why didn't they block Nyn, kill BG, and silence Sakaea?

seems much better choice than block/killing Nyn and silencing BG

idk

it makes sense to me anyway

 

Vote: BG

 

This makes no sense whatsoever. Even if BG is recruited, as you pointed out in the Seanchan Invasion game in the Aiel (in which you were town), going after cult recruits is asinine when there is still a cult leader alive. Furthermore, seeing as the silence and the recruit probably belong to mafia and cult respectively, the idea of them being used in concert to ostensibly vet BG is ludicrous. Finally, the mafia knows that BG is a cop. They also know that the healer is dead. They would like nothing more than to kill BG without using an NK seeing as cult and town are both threats to them. I say we make the mafia use an NK on BG. I also say if they continue to leave him silenced and alive, that we let them. He will be a player who is confirmed as not cult leader. This kind of play is head-scratching from you, Nolder. I think either you are mafia trying to get BG out of the way, or you are cult trying to save Turin. Tina is also possibly your teammate. The very fact that you are trying to lynch confirmed non cult leaders makes me pretty sure you are scum.

 

Wombat took the words out of my mouth. Really sketchy move Nolder.

yeah my bad

I don't know what else to say really

just a lapse in judgment

[mmeeshal]

Hmm, elaboration...well...I'm actually going to bed now, but I figured I'd check in here before I did that, so tell ya what. When I wake up and have sorted out all the major business that needs taking care of for me irl, I will go back and read through all of Wombat's posts in this thread and point out the stuff that has given me my not-good feeling.

 

At the moment, nothing specific is in my mind, mostly because I'm exhausted and it's been a while and it has just been a general feeling.... But I know that some posts felt worse than others, so that's something.

 

Anyway. I'm losing coherence swiftly. XD Laters. XD

[Netbattler11]

I'm terrible at this game and he looked like a good vote at the time. For some reason. don't look at me like that. IT IS TOTALLY A LEGIT VOTE!

[Nolder]

ummm well okay...

are you looking for a roleclaim or do you just want to lynch me or what?

I'm happy to look back at my actions thus far in the game and defend them (or condemn them, re: stupid ideas) but I kinda gotta know what it is you're taking an issue with first

unless you just don't want to talk

then uhhh that's ok too I guess...

[Niniel]

I´m kind of lost. I had a hard time get into this game from the start and now there is a cult... Unvote. I have no idea who to vote instead.

[Turin Turambar]

Sorry in advance for multiple posts. I can't multi quote on this machine.

There was no protect? does that mean Nyn got blocked? Mafia must have wanted her bad.

 

Obviously I am not silent. I think everyone wants to hear from BG.

 

Turin, this whole post doesn't sit well.

I asked Why in the next post. No answer from Ed. I merely pointed to a fact there was no protect action on last night's list and that would likely mean that Nyn was roleblocked before being killed.( I doubt she would forget to send in her action) This assumes that the mafia had figured her out as doc and intended to take her out.

 

Your "assumptions" can easily be disguised as inside info. You were full of gasconades in that post. XD

Really? I would think the LAST person to point out what Mafia are doing would be the mafia themselves. You might as well wear a sign that says "lookie me, I'm a bad guy". They want to operate in the shadows for the most part.

 

I am a person that loves puzzles. If I find one I must try to solve it. In this game I think it is generally better to share ideas on how to solve things to 1. find out if my guesses are waaaaay off(happens), 2. point things out others may have missed, and 3. maybe something I come up with will spark another idea from someone else to help get the bad guys.

 

And mafia would use molotov cocktails.

[Verbal32]

Hmm, elaboration...well...I'm actually going to bed now, but I figured I'd check in here before I did that, so tell ya what. When I wake up and have sorted out all the major business that needs taking care of for me irl, I will go back and read through all of Wombat's posts in this thread and point out the stuff that has given me my not-good feeling.

 

At the moment, nothing specific is in my mind, mostly because I'm exhausted and it's been a while and it has just been a general feeling.... But I know that some posts felt worse than others, so that's something.

 

Anyway. I'm losing coherence swiftly. XD Laters. XD

 

I'm also looking forward to hearing your case....I have a good feeling on Wombat, so this is quite interesting to me.

[ed2funy]

That's the point, Turin. Hide em in plain sight.

[Sakaea]

I'm going to keep my vote where it is for now, but I'm looking forward to reading the case on Wombat.

[Turin Turambar]

To me that just adds to inactivity in the game, Ed. If putting forth information or asking questions leads people to think you are a bad guy, people will just sit on the sidelines and vote for whoever has a few votes to avoid random lynches. Then the mafia win by just getting a train started with little real reason and letting the quiet people hop on cause no other cases are being made.

 

This leads me to look at those that moved on me without really having a cause. That's you, Womby, Des and Kae. I still believe Kae is likely town. I think I will take a closer look at the rest of you.

[Nolder]

I'd like to hear more from player and ledinna today

 

and I'd say Tina too but apparently she's confused so I don't expect her to be much help

[ed2funy]

To me that just adds to inactivity in the game, Ed. If putting forth information or asking questions leads people to think you are a bad guy, people will just sit on the sidelines and vote for whoever has a few votes to avoid random lynches. Then the mafia win by just getting a train started with little real reason and letting the quiet people hop on cause no other cases are being made.

 

This leads me to look at those that moved on me without really having a cause. That's you, Womby, Des and Kae. I still believe Kae is likely town. I think I will take a closer look at the rest of you.

 

You weren't putting forth information, though, is what you claim. Unless, as I said, you were boasting via a "innocent" questioning post?

[Turin Turambar]

I'm not following your wording very well there. I am not claiming to know what happened merely making a guess based on available evidence and some assumptions that seemed logical. I'm definitely not boasting about doing something I had no part of. What I am trying, poorly apparently, to say is that if you jump on the people asking questions, putting forth ideas/theories, or bringing to light things that had not been mentioned previously you will stifle the will of people to make the effort to find the mafia and the cult. Then all we get is lazy cases(you and womby), gut feelings and bandwagons(des and Kae) where the bad guys can hide.

 

Back to my original question Ed.(and I guess everyone else for informational purposes) Did you notice there was no protect on the list? What did you think about that fact?

[ed2funy]

I mostly agree with you.

 

But....

 

1. She didn't send it (i.e. forgot)

2. Got blocked randomly (would be odd)

3. Got blocked on purpose (and the mafia knew her, as you said. Likely)

 

There may be a couple more, but the point is, it'd mean the mafia knew who she was. How?

 

And methinks your post (and the way you worded it), was smelly. Like smelly cat.

[hazelkrs1]

Wombat took the words out of my mouth. Really sketchy move Nolder.

yeah my bad

I don't know what else to say really

just a lapse in judgment

 

Okay

 

Hmm, elaboration...well...I'm actually going to bed now, but I figured I'd check in here before I did that, so tell ya what. When I wake up and have sorted out all the major business that needs taking care of for me irl, I will go back and read through all of Wombat's posts in this thread and point out the stuff that has given me my not-good feeling.

 

At the moment, nothing specific is in my mind, mostly because I'm exhausted and it's been a while and it has just been a general feeling.... But I know that some posts felt worse than others, so that's something.

 

Anyway. I'm losing coherence swiftly. XD Laters. XD

 

This post pinged to me. Unless she's able to find some seriously damning stuff against Womby that doesn't look contrived she moves up on my list.

 

I'm terrible at this game and he looked like a good vote at the time. For some reason. don't look at me like that. IT IS TOTALLY A LEGIT VOTE!

 

[Turin Turambar]

So you are saying that you agree with my conclusions but don't like how I said it or that I said it? For the former I am sure you have your reasons that make sense to you. For the latter since to me it was simple observation and free flowing thought I am not sure why it was so bad.

 

As for how they knew I don't know. Nyn gave me a strong town vibe(I know, easy to say now) I would not have painted her as the Doc but I am not very good at sniffing out roles. Maybe that is why I ask the questions that people don't like.

 

As far as that goes it reminds me that Des was pretty confident that Nyn was in fact the CL before she got lynched. Obviously he was wrong but why did he think that? Why did you Des?

 

Back to the first part of the question. Did you notice there was no protect on this last list? I am assuming you did but if you could clarify it would be great

[ed2funy]

*sniffs Turin*

Smelly cat. Meow.

 

 

 

Yussir. Despite contrary belief, I only skim 95% of the time.

[hazelkrs1]

I mainly thought Nyn might be the CL for two reasons: She was expending a good deal of effort defending Kae and Red, and with one of them recruited this could easily have been her trying to clear the chance that her newly recruited would be lynched. Plus, a couple of people mentioned getting strong town vibes from her, and in my experience the CL usually puts out strong town vibes for the most part