[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[mmeeshal]

Your play style is incredibly anti town, and in a game where the goal is to be pro town that makes it a stupid thing to do.

Without stepping in the middle of anything, I did just want to point out that this is GENERALLY true, but ultimately the goal is to win, with whatever win condition you have, however you can. This doesn't always mean appearing to be pro-town. Yes, if you're town you always want your actions to end up pro-town, but it doesn't always have to come across that way to everyone else--they don't know what you know.

 

I guess I'd say that in my mafia dictionary, "pro-town" is more about how specific actions affect the game more than how it LOOKS. If your actions hurt the town, then they're anti-town actions. If they help, they're pro-town. Sometimes it's hard to see which they are without hindsight.

 

Anyway, that is not a long deadline.

 

unvote

vote Cuathon

 

Sorry to hear you've had a major culture clash here. That's never fun. =/

[Turin Turambar]

VOTE CUATHON best thing for the game I think.

[Niniel]

What do you mean by best thing for the game?

[Turin Turambar]

He stated that he is not happy playing here. A unhappy player causes distraction by their presence as the other players are diverted from looking for mafia. That is bad for the game imo. That may be short sighted on my part but it is just my opinion.

 

I would be happy if circumstances were different.

 

Game wise, he is also a somewhat confirmed redirector which is usually anti-town. This lynch will also give some info.

[Nolder]

sorry guys it looks like I've missed a LOT while I was at Disneyland and recuperating

I think the best way to reintegrate myself into this game is to reread but not respond to every little thing or do a big summary

so that's what I'm going to do right now

[Nolder]

Have you seen those Nol? I LOVE em, especially this one!

yeah! I'm subscribed to their channel lol

that's what inspired my post actually

[Nolder]

Ahh, okay. That makes sense.

 

Although, I wasn't very clear with my implications, but the whole Meta thing in regards to his activity and lack of a replacement is that maybe he is active on a QT and not on DM. Does he have access to QTs at work? It does seem more likely in light of that information that he just hasn't been able to contact Ama to let her know he needs a replacement, but yeah, I was wondering if maybe he's been posting on a QT and that's why he hasn't been replaced.

 

Anyway.

hmmm

I find this post very weird now that we know there is a silencer

[Nolder]

Kae's been silenced and was also RB'd last night; so we only have my list to go off of. no i wont be telling you which list it is, because i'd rather the WIFOM surrounding which one of us is watcher and which of us is tracker remain WIFOMy for them. it's bad enough both of us are outted, but atleast we're keeping their RBer away from BG.

 

now whats very interesting is that the scum didn't NK one of us, instead picking a different target. which means their probably gonna try to descredit us on thread, aand seeing how they silenced my partner this makes since. looks like Cauthon has already started this and BG is semi doing this. but seeing as i haven't gotten that re-read done, i'm twitchy about applying perssure to a finder claim with no CC.

 

 

still, his response to the NK and the attempt at spreading doubt on our claim is enough for me to start pressuring

 

VOTE: CAUTHON

you're worried about being discredited because your role is abnormal

which I think makes people concerns about you valid

the fact that you're worried enough to attack anyone who tries to "discredit" you is something that worries me

 

also regarding the silencing...hmm

could be legit

I know first hand there is a silencer

but wouldn't it be tricky to silence someone, out yourself with one of your scum partners, and then pretend to be silenced while two different people back your claim of there being a silencer and thus lending you legitimacy?

not saying this is the case I just personally don't trust either of you yet

have you told us anything we don't know?

you told us there was a kill attempt, but someone had already died so it was obvious

you told us there was a redirector, but levity had already outed herself at the time

and you say there was a roleblocker, but as far as we know you were the only ones roleblocked thus far right?

and of course there's the silencer but if you're scum you'd know about that already

 

I still have some catching up to do and some rereading as well but I don't like at all your reluctance to make public your lists of info

I think that should all be on the table every day

else what use is it to us?

I think if you are scum you don't want to publish that so no one can counter claim you and say they used their powers but you didn't see them

 

Lol mafia hacks miller. Thats great.

this post pings alot.

really? a lot?

why?

he finds it humorous that the mafia inadvertently helped the town out

what's suspicious about that?

[mmeeshal]

Ahh, okay. That makes sense.

 

Although, I wasn't very clear with my implications, but the whole Meta thing in regards to his activity and lack of a replacement is that maybe he is active on a QT and not on DM. Does he have access to QTs at work? It does seem more likely in light of that information that he just hasn't been able to contact Ama to let her know he needs a replacement, but yeah, I was wondering if maybe he's been posting on a QT and that's why he hasn't been replaced.

 

Anyway.

hmmm

I find this post very weird now that we know there is a silencer

I wanted to comment on this--um, yeah, because Verbal has posted, what... *goes to check* 3 times in this thread.

 

I don't think he posted at all yesterDay, and YOU were silenced then, so please tell me how wondering about his inactivity could be weird? I didn't know he wasn't able to get on DM, no, but I DID know that there was pretty much no way he had been silenced every single day of this game, and yet he only has 3 posts to his name. I think all on Day 1? So yeah. It DOES look weird when someone is super-quiet to the point of nonexistence and is still kept in the game, especially when you have absolutely no idea that there are outside causes for the absence.

 

Just saying. Weird that you feel the need to mark this as weird.

[Cuathon]

I think that I have enough votes on me now that the lynch won't be derailed so I can make this my last post:

 

Unvote Vote: Red

 

I think that Red and Kae are mafia. It is somewhat covered by Red's meta, which is why the meta is anti town. Red identifies a lot of things as scum tells which aren't such as the comment on the miller. She pushes really hard on stuff and she only gets away with it because of her meta as a "bulldog" which fyi, is offensive and speciest. Her meta protects her from a lot of slip ups because "impulsive" and "aggressive" people act similar to really guilty and off balance scum. In most of the places I play she would just keep getting policy lynched till she stopped. 90% of the time that kind of meta is only good for providing cover for mafia and offers easy opportunities to follow her lead. I can call her meta anti town also because as mafia I would just leave her alive and watch her throw everyone off my scent. Just think about it, if you were mafia would you rather have reasoned stable players who don't draw lots of attention or would you rather have someone like Red? I've also won numerous games by playing the "aggressive" player and both leading and confusing the town, its a pretty useful mafia trick depending on who you are playing with.

 

I am also pinging off Soyo, Tina, Corrosive, and Des. You kids have fun now.

[bgrishinko]

Well Cuathon, look at the bright side. If you do flip town, then Red is #1 on my needs to die list.

[hazelkrs1]

I just got one quick question: shouldn't we be trying to make this place more hospitable for mafia players new to DM? Isn't that a goal, to help make people who are on the outside coming in feel more welcome? It seems like everyone's trying to come down on Cuathon now for stating that he basically doesn't feel welcome in this kind of environment, and saying he needs to adapt to our way or GTFO? Is that really the kind of atmosphere we're trying to generate here?

 

I know I might be in the minority on this issue, and I know my beliefs regarding this topic might not be that popular with most of the players here, but frankly I'm shocked at the reaction many are exhibiting towards Cuathon. Not to mention it seems almost definite that mafia would have no problem jumping on his lynch since he seems like an easy lynch candidate.

[mmeeshal]

Personally, I feel like the culture shock issue would be a topic better left outside this game--maybe you could start a new thread? I agree with your sentiments, as it happens, but I think we don't need to derail this game with that discussion.

 

As for its relation to this game, on the one hand, again, I agree, but on the other, there ARE reasons aside from differences in play style that Cuathon is being voted, so I don't think the differences have as much to do with the current situation.

[dapianoplay3r]

I don't want to vote Cuat for the way he and Red are arguing. But Cuat I will say that you seem to be overreacting IMO

 

This has become such a big thing over pretty much nothing.

As for your Bulldog comment I think this shows that you are reacting too much to small things. I know that bulldogs are great pets and that it is a stereotype but it wasn't an attack on the dog breed it was just a metaphor. It's one that is commonly used and really just a turn of phrase now.

 

I really hope you give DM another go and try another game or two. Maybe even a SG? You might be a really respected player on your other forums but here no one knows you, and I know that's not how it's supposed to work, but people naturally trust people they know and naturally feel better about people they meta with.

 

Anyway I don't think you are scum. I think that if you had a QT you would have been able to vent a lot more on that and your team mates would have stopped you posting some of what you did. I also kinda believe Red. So I wont vote either of you

[Cuathon]

I don't want to vote Cuat for the way he and Red are arguing. But Cuat I will say that you seem to be overreacting IMO

 

This has become such a big thing over pretty much nothing.

As for your Bulldog comment I think this shows that you are reacting too much to small things. I know that bulldogs are great pets and that it is a stereotype but it wasn't an attack on the dog breed it was just a metaphor. It's one that is commonly used and really just a turn of phrase now.

 

I really hope you give DM another go and try another game or two. Maybe even a SG? You might be a really respected player on your other forums but here no one knows you, and I know that's not how it's supposed to work, but people naturally trust people they know and naturally feel better about people they meta with.

 

Anyway I don't think you are scum. I think that if you had a QT you would have been able to vent a lot more on that and your team mates would have stopped you posting some of what you did. I also kinda believe Red. So I wont vote either of you

 

 

I didn't wanna post again but I figured I should address this. Its not about being respected elsewhere. I just don't like that you guys are letting Red get away with such an anti town meta and if you guys think that is cool and normal than I don't really wanna have to filter that shit out every game with Red obscuring scum so much. I know a lot of people don't like working on optimal game strategies, but Red's persona is just really excessive in this regard.

 

As for the bulldog you are passing the part of the thing that is the problematic aspect off as a reason its not a big deal. The fact that its "just a turn of phrase" prevents people from speaking out on the problem. The reason there is a problem is because people think "its just not a big deal". Its the very normality and pervasiveness that is whats wrong.

 

As for comments about Red's meta being a derail, its not. I think she should get policy lynched until she picks a different play style. I don't expect you to actually do it. In any case I'll be dead soon and the problem will go away. Clearly not enough other people besides me consider it a large enough problem to correct it.

 

And as for hostility issues, its not a big deal, I happened to get a ping off a certain kind of player and I happen to come from a conflicting mafia tradition. Its not personal on any of our parts, sometimes people don't mesh. And like I said, I didn't come here to PLAY mafia. I just wanted host a specific type of game.

[WWWwombat]

Aggressive play is not necessarily anti-town. That being said, the way Red does it is often anti-town. I don't really want to lynch either of you right now although I do wish you would both shut up.

[WWWwombat]

And by "shut up" I suppose I mean "calm down"

[Netbattler11]

This doesn't really seem to be getting us anywhere.

[Amadine]

Vote Count:

 

Des (2) - Tina, Ledinna 2.0

 

Cuathon (7) - BG, Red, Soy, Maw, Nyn, Meesh, Turin

Red (1) - Ed, Cuathon

Not Voting: Nolder, Corrosive, Verb, Ishy, Kae, Loki, Player, Womby, Des

20 players = 11 to lynch

 

 

A DEADLINE HAS BEEN SET

THE DEADLINE IS 5 HOURS FROM THIS POST.

 

 

 

[dapianoplay3r]

I will be back and if we need my vote I will vote for Cuat so it doesn't go to random.org but I disagree with why everyone is voting for him

[SBoydW]

I think that I have enough votes on me now that the lynch won't be derailed so I can make this my last post:

 

Unvote Vote: Red

 

I think that Red and Kae are mafia. It is somewhat covered by Red's meta, which is why the meta is anti town. Red identifies a lot of things as scum tells which aren't such as the comment on the miller. She pushes really hard on stuff and she only gets away with it because of her meta as a "bulldog" which fyi, is offensive and speciest. Her meta protects her from a lot of slip ups because "impulsive" and "aggressive" people act similar to really guilty and off balance scum. In most of the places I play she would just keep getting policy lynched till she stopped. 90% of the time that kind of meta is only good for providing cover for mafia and offers easy opportunities to follow her lead. I can call her meta anti town also because as mafia I would just leave her alive and watch her throw everyone off my scent. Just think about it, if you were mafia would you rather have reasoned stable players who don't draw lots of attention or would you rather have someone like Red? I've also won numerous games by playing the "aggressive" player and both leading and confusing the town, its a pretty useful mafia trick depending on who you are playing with.

 

I am also pinging off Soyo, Tina, Corrosive, and Des. You kids have fun now.

 

I was on the fence about which of you (you or red) to vote... I added my vote for pressure, not neccesarily to see you lynched. That being said, with what you said, and my already major suspcions about her, I believe I'll switch to her.

 

Unvote Vote: Red

 

By the way... was your ping OMGUS for my vote on you, or was there something else to it? If it was something else I'd like to adress it.

[Cuathon]

I think that I have enough votes on me now that the lynch won't be derailed so I can make this my last post:

 

Unvote Vote: Red

 

I think that Red and Kae are mafia. It is somewhat covered by Red's meta, which is why the meta is anti town. Red identifies a lot of things as scum tells which aren't such as the comment on the miller. She pushes really hard on stuff and she only gets away with it because of her meta as a "bulldog" which fyi, is offensive and speciest. Her meta protects her from a lot of slip ups because "impulsive" and "aggressive" people act similar to really guilty and off balance scum. In most of the places I play she would just keep getting policy lynched till she stopped. 90% of the time that kind of meta is only good for providing cover for mafia and offers easy opportunities to follow her lead. I can call her meta anti town also because as mafia I would just leave her alive and watch her throw everyone off my scent. Just think about it, if you were mafia would you rather have reasoned stable players who don't draw lots of attention or would you rather have someone like Red? I've also won numerous games by playing the "aggressive" player and both leading and confusing the town, its a pretty useful mafia trick depending on who you are playing with.

 

I am also pinging off Soyo, Tina, Corrosive, and Des. You kids have fun now.

 

I was on the fence about which of you (you or red) to vote... I added my vote for pressure, not neccesarily to see you lynched. That being said, with what you said, and my already major suspcions about her, I believe I'll switch to her.

 

Unvote Vote: Red

 

By the way... was your ping OMGUS for my vote on you, or was there something else to it? If it was something else I'd like to adress it.

 

I didn't actually keep track of names of votes for me. Its just a reasonless ping. I looked at names on the list and the black box in my brain said scum. I don't know why. I don't want to be unvoted. I am just providing a reason to vote Red tomorrow. That is why I think Red is scum. I suggest you vote for me because the deadline is soon. I can't vote for me cause modkill. I wouldn't want a random player to die if people don't vote by the deadline.

[Niniel]

I want to address Des last post. Cauthon - I didn´t want to offend you. It´s not strange that you don´t know how our roles works etc. We, that have played here, don´t always know either since many mods find up new roles or modify old ones. What I think was weired was that you start to tell people they are idiots after a few pages. And I´m allergic to emo blackmailing - "I will leave and never play again". That is not all about you, it´s about other players too.

 

I guess you are an experienced player since you want to mod a 45 player game. I have had a suspicion that you might be a jester.

 

To be honest, I don´t know who to vote for. I don´t see the case on Cauthon. I hope I will get time to get here before deadline.

[bgrishinko]

I'd like to reiterate that I was redirected last night. That's why I voted for Cuathon... Though there could be 2 redirectors, but it makes more sense to me Cuathon or Red are lying. I'm disposed to say Cuathon based on yesterday and today's actions, though if he flips town then Red is up.

[Cuathon]

I want to address Des last post. Cauthon - I didn´t want to offend you. It´s not strange that you don´t know how our roles works etc. We, that have played here, don´t always know either since many mods find up new roles or modify old ones. What I think was weired was that you start to tell people they are idiots after a few pages. And I´m allergic to emo blackmailing - "I will leave and never play again". That is not all about you, it´s about other players too.

 

I guess you are an experienced player since you want to mod a 45 player game. I have had a suspicion that you might be a jester.

 

To be honest, I don´t know who to vote for. I don´t see the case on Cauthon. I hope I will get time to get here before deadline.

 

What's weird is that you guys keep insisting I called people idiots, which I didn't, but if I did, then Red called me an idiot first, so why aren't you complaining about her behavior too? Why didn't you complain when she did it? I am not blackmailing you. I am leaving. I only wanted to mod a game, I joined this game while I was waiting to see if there was sufficient interest in a really complex and large game model, which there wasn't. In any case, it is not all about me, but neither is it all about Red, and her metas only value is covering her as a hacker, it is damaging to town experience, and neither is the individual constrained by the desires of the group, or in some cases a minority or majority of the group. That is, my right to leave a situation I find to be upsetting or uncomfortable or obnoxious trumps your right to keep me playing mafia. When I initially replaced Levity I could not have been aware of the nature of your style of mafia games, neither individual styles like Red's anti town meta, nor group styles like *action* spam and joke voting. Having had that experience I made the decision that I did not want to continue to play now that my purpose for being here, hosting a special mafia, was defunct. Indeed the most pro town solution imo is for you to lynch me, which provides some useful insight on players who interacted with me, and doesn't cost the town a powerful and easily directed power role. Re-director as a role is more valuable for mafia to control town roles they cannot lynch or kill. This is also useful since I do not want to keep playing and it would be unfair as well as difficult to get a replacement to take my spot given the votes on me. If I were blackmailing you that would mean I was trying to get the lynch off me, which I am not. I think that the confirmation of my role would provide more use to the town in terms of catching scum, than keeping me alive because then my suggestions could always be interpreted to have scummy motives.