Future visions by Aviendha

[Thorum]

I've just read ToM, and seem surprised there is a consensus on here that the future Aviendha saw will not turn out to be the real one (aka that it can still be avoided).

 

Is there a reason everyone thinks so? I canot find any thread discussing the vericity of these viewings.

 

I'm honestly flabbergasted this vision gets ignored by most when discussing the future of Randland

[he who comes with a bong]

It might be the aiel before they went to the way of the leaf. After a few thousand years of death and enslavement i could see them going all peacefull, like figuring out that instead of fighting,wich they see is not doing any good at all. they choose to offer them selves as perfect servants.

[baalsmistress]

Of course, we don't really know what the pillars ter'angreal actually does.

 

Certainly in the past it showed Aiel wise ones and Clan chiefs the history of the Aiel through the eyes of their bloodline ancesters. But then why does it show Avienda the future instead.

 

We have certainly seen that prophecy is a real force in the WoT world, and I cannot think of a single prophecy that, once made, has been proven to be avoided. That goes equally for the prophecies by channellers, and Min.

 

Which leaves an intersting connumdrum. If all prophecies by channellers and Min are accurate in the detail, if vague in the generality - one knows they will come true, but has to be very very careful with interpreting the wording. If they all come true, why would the ter'angreal be different.

 

We don't know what it does

 

Does it

 

1. 
    
   
2. Show visions of different moments on the wheel of time from the point of view of your bloodline that are inviolate and will/have happened
   
3. Show visions that the person entering the ter'angreal needs to see (shades of TAR need).
   
4. Show visions of your bloodline in different worlds - shades of portal stone worlds
   
5. Something else entirely
    
   

 

Avienda couldn't read the ter'angreal when she tried. It was too vast - so we probably will never truely know. But as it stands, we have no reason to suppose that the visions are anything but what they appear to be - a prophecy based on the future of Avienda's bloodline, up to the moment of her line's ultimate demise in the mud beside a cart, her last 18 year old descendant dying childless as the Aiel face the final days of their existance.

 

I'm not a fan of prohpecy mechanics generally, and the ability to see a future without being able to affect it strikes me as being the act of a very cruel deity. Just as the original legend og the cyclops being granted only the foresight to know the time, place and manner of their own death by Loki, and having no power to change it.

[damandred]

I read the vision as even if the Aiel went tinker, the seachan would wipe them out, for declaring war on them.

"Anywhere two Aiel gather" and all of that. By the end of the vision(or beginning), the Seachan look like they have successfully carried out the genocide of a entire people, while simultaneously conquering the world.

 

Now I have several issues with the two chapters, Near Avendasora and Court of the Sun. None of the known characters are in it for one. But I won't go in to that.

 

To answer the question of this thread, I would like to point out that I have raised concerns over Aviendha's vision once or twice in various threads and one I posted myself(will elayne and Aviendha die in the last battle) and the majority of people seem to just brush it under the carpet, the only attempt of a even halfway credible theory of why the vision was so dark was a suggestion that Rands state of mind at the time cast a darkness over all prophecy, foretelling ect. Which I don't buy.

 

I don't think the future will turn out like Avi's vision (we'll have our selves a book burning if it does)

I think it will just act as some sort of catalyst for Avi to change the Aiel.

But with so many potential spoilers in the scene, its either the worst thought out couple of chapters In the series or a complete red herring.

[shaiel]

the main reason why i'm almost 100% sure that future is not going to happen is because the whole part felt "weird" to me. Like a fever dream. The biggest problem is - IMO- that we can't relate to the world we see in the visions, expecially because there's nothing about the stuff we know - all we can understand is that there was something called Peace of the Dragon, who was named Rand Al'Thor. Stop. I mean, we got Rand's great-greandaughter. 4 generations, and not a word about Egwene. It actually sounds like she's no longer Amyrlin and/or like all the stuff in the book never happened (it's highly unlikely that the WT would fall under Egwene. Also, no cooperation between AS & Asha'man? And what about the AS/AM bounded? Mah. Also, what happened to Logain? Narishima?) Then we got avi's grandaughter...50 years, and Elayne is no longer queen of Andor. (BTW, after 50 years Perrin should have been alive as well). Then we see Padra. We learn that the "old emperess" is dead, and that's the only news we have about a WoT character in the chapters. But nobody says a word about Aviendha herself - is she dead too? And what about Rand? I can try and believe they're all going to die, but we know Mat is going to survive. So, what about him?

The whole part felt off and unrealistic to me.

[GYLD]

We have certainly seen that prophecy is a real force in the WoT world, and I cannot think of a single prophecy that, once made, has been proven to be avoided.

 

Min's viewings and foretelling are the only absolutes in prophecy. Dreamers for example often have dreams of what might happen instead of what will. Egwene has her dreams of Gawyn where one he lives a long life and another where he dies a violent death while young and obviously both can't come to pass.

 

The ter'angreal could go either way. It could either be showing what will or what might happen.

[damandred]

the main reason why i'm almost 100% sure that future is not going to happen is because the whole part felt "weird" to me. Like a fever dream. The biggest problem is - IMO- that we can't relate to the world we see in the visions, expecially because there's nothing about the stuff we know - all we can understand is that there was something called Peace of the Dragon, who was named Rand Al'Thor. Stop. I mean, we got Rand's great-greandaughter. 4 generations, and not a word about Egwene. It actually sounds like she's no longer Amyrlin and/or like all the stuff in the book never happened (it's highly unlikely that the WT would fall under Egwene. Also, no cooperation between AS & Asha'man? And what about the AS/AM bounded? Mah. Also, what happened to Logain? Narishima?) Then we got avi's grandaughter...50 years, and Elayne is no longer queen of Andor. (BTW, after 50 years Perrin should have been alive as well). Then we see Padra. We learn that the "old emperess" is dead, and that's the only news we have about a WoT character in the chapters. But nobody says a word about Aviendha herself - is she dead too? And what about Rand? I can try and believe they're all going to die, but we know Mat is going to survive. So, what about him?

The whole part felt off and unrealistic to me.

 

 

Agreed.(watch this thread die a silent death)

[damandred]

We have certainly seen that prophecy is a real force in the WoT world, and I cannot think of a single prophecy that, once made, has been proven to be avoided.

 

Min's viewings and foretelling are the only absolutes in prophecy. Dreamers for example often have dreams of what might happen instead of what will. Egwene has her dreams of Gawyn where one he lives a long life and another where he dies a violent death while young and obviously both can't come to pass.

 

The ter'angreal could go either way. It could either be showing what will or what might happen.

 

 

 

That's not the impression I get at the end of the scene.

Aviendha thinks the visions are different from the ones she experienced passing through the rings, which are possible futures.

If anything I get the feeling avi thinks that its more than a possible future and is terrified that she cannot change it.

[baalsmistress]

Dreaming is non-absolute certainly.

 

But actual channeller prophecy - there has never been a prophecy that has not proven to come true at some point. The errors in them have all resulted from interpretation, not inaccuracy in the prophecy.

 

One of my favourite quotes "Prophecy is a poor guide to the future. You only understand it when the event's already upon you." - Attributed to Delenn Mir in Babylon 5, but certainly applicable to WoT prophecy too.

[Thorum]

Can someone tell me where I'm probably wrong? All these 'objections' seem perfectly reasonable to me...

 

the main reason why i'm almost 100% sure that future is not going to happen is because the whole part felt "weird" to me. Like a fever dream. The biggest problem is - IMO- that we can't relate to the world we see in the visions, expecially because there's nothing about the stuff we know -

 

Last time an Age ended, there was a Breaking.

 

I mean, we got Rand's great-greandaughter. 4 generations, and not a word about Egwene. It actually sounds like she's no longer Amyrlin and/or like all the stuff in the book never happened (it's highly unlikely that the WT would fall under Egwene.

1) Seanchan

2) Egwene isn't immortal. She simply wouldn't have died of old age in 4 generations. If she dies in aMoL or soon after, the Tower is gonna try very hard to hide the last 5 years.

 

Also, no cooperation between AS & Asha'man? And what about the AS/AM bounded?

Enough things have not happened that looked "likely".

 

Also, what happened to Logain? Narishima?

Why would Avi's great-greandaughter care?

 

Then we got avi's grandaughter...50 years, and Elayne is no longer queen of Andor. (BTW, after 50 years Perrin should have been alive as well). Then we see Padra. We learn that the "old emperess" is dead, and that's the only news we have about a WoT character in the chapters.

See with Egwene. Or with Logain/Narishma.

 

But nobody says a word about Aviendha herself - is she dead too? And what about Rand?

- The daughters (etc.) are seen as the Dragon's daughters. Not Avi. Which seems quite logical

- "Her mother had gained great ji in battle" was about Aviendha.

 

we know Mat is going to survive. So, what about him?

He's the Seanchan emperor (at least maried to the "old empress" from above)

[David Selig]

The main in-story reason the visions are unlikely to happen is that they don't fit with the Rhuidein prophesy that only "a remnant of a remnat" of the rthe Aiel will survive the LB. In the vision closest to the current Randland time, the Aiel are fine and there are an awful lot of them.

[SylvanFox]

If Mat becomes Emperor, I wonder if he would free all the damane? Or at least the ones who aren't begging to remain collared....

 

I don't know how certain Aviendha's vision is. It sounds like a very bleak and horrible future. In the case of this future, I think that the Seanchan would eventually own the entire world. They wouldn't stick to the Dragon's Peace forever.

 

There are some excerpts of histories and writings from the 4th Age that appear in some of the books. Several of them had names that sounded like they indicate free nations (I think one was Manetheren). I could be wrong, maybe they are just Seanchan cities, but what about Arvalon and the other "Tar Valon-ish" sounding city? Given the way the Seanchan like changing names of damane and other property (anyone they conquer who puts up resistance being included under that heading, as that is what they do with them), it seems like they would change the name of Tar Valon, and I doubt they would leave it sounding just like the old name. They especially wouldn't build another city and name it after Tar Valon, too.

 

This is weak evidence, of course, but it makes it a teeny bit hopeful.

 

Also, I thought that maybe a small group of Aiel would come into Randland from the Waste, and settle (whether or not they assimilate, I haven't really considered). They will hold to the Dragon's Peace, and the rest of the race will be wiped out, including several of Rand's descendants. "A remnant of a remnant" -a small remaining portion of the remaining portion after TG will survive.

 

Aviendha's vision may also come to pass and be resolved sometime after the death of the great great granddaughter or whatever. Maybe a rebellion will come about, and the Seanchan will be wiped out. I don't know. But some tiny portion of the Aiel will somehow make it to safety and be the "remnant of a remnant."

[Mulk]

For myself, I read those scenes as a possible future based on the current trend of events. As Aviendha is going to work to correct the issues that led to the Aiel's demise, it is possible, maybe even likely, that she succeeds at least to some extent. The issues as I saw them were 1) that Rand did not include them in his Peace, which I infer to be the agreement that occurs at the Field of Merrilor; and 2) the Aiel lack purpose post-war, and not being party to the Peace, returned to their warring ways, ending in full subjugation and destruction by the Seanchan. Number 2 is really hard to address, but number 1 is fairly easy to address, assuming Aviendha returns in time as I think she will. I mean, everyone else will be there, pretty much. And if she changes it in any way, while it doesn't make the future she saw impossible, it does mean other things are changeable.

 

Then you need to account for the fact that Mat is, in fact, the Prince of Ravens and likely to have some effect on Tuon's actions. I don't think he bears love for the Aiel, but he does respect them, and Mat doesn't really go out of his way to offend those he respects. I think it very likely that he attempts to persuade Tuon into doing what he sees as the right thing, and Mat, it is clear to see, does not really think that anyone deserves to be enslaved so. He may not fully succeed, but he has to have some kind of effect on her, assuming his survival, which we pretty much all have taken as all but guaranteed.

 

The single event that precipitates the whole downfall (as much as one single event can actually fully cause a civilization collapse) is the refusal to release the Shaido Wise ones that were taken as damane according to the rules of ji'e'toh. Completely leaving aside the fact that the Aiel, save for the crazies in the Shaido, do not expect non-Aiel to follow ji'e'toh for the moment, the fact that they remain damane ignores the rot that is now injected into the Seanchan power base - namely, that all sul'dam are also, in fact, prospective damane and that includes Tuon herself. The Seanchan will have to some to some sort of reckoning with themselves and with their Empress about this and that has to have an affect on how they treat all channelers going forward.

 

Basically, I think the reason more of us don't lend much credence to Aviendha's visions being a guaranteed prophecy of the future is that there is too much that we, the readers, know has to have an affect that will or can or should alter at least somewhat the future she saw. It could be that the purpose of those visions was to warn the Aiel that they cannot refuse to grow and change once war with the Shadow (we know from Nicola that battle won't be over when the Last Battle finishes) is done if they want to survive as a people; that they cannot go back to raiding each other, and that they cannot treat other nations as they treated themselves for the best part of three thousand years. I don't know if it is, but it could be.

[Wantanswers]

The main in-story reason the visions are unlikely to happen is that they don't fit with the Rhuidein prophesy that only "a remnant of a remnat" of the rthe Aiel will survive the LB. In the vision closest to the current Randland time, the Aiel are fine and there are an awful lot of them.

There is another Rhuidean prophecy:

•"One of the old prophecies says that if ever we fail the Aes Sedai again, they will slay us." (TGH, ch. 28)

I think the future that Aviendha saw, will happen if the Aiel will fail the Aes Sedai again. We have to wonder how the Aiel did fail another time.

The Aiel once failed by abandoning the Way of Leaf. Will they do it again by not returning to the Way of Leaf?

[shaiel]

Last time an Age ended, there was a Breaking.

yes, but there's not going to be a breaking this time. First, because Rand already broke what he had to, in a metaphorical way :D. Second, because the world would be completely different after a breaking. Future-World just feels off. We know there is a Caemlyn and a WT.. the world stayed the same, but everything else is different.

 

I mean, we got Rand's great-greandaughter. 4 generations, and not a word about Egwene. It actually sounds like she's no longer Amyrlin and/or like all the stuff in the book never happened (it's highly unlikely that the WT would fall under Egwene.

1) Seanchan

2) Egwene isn't immortal. She simply wouldn't have died of old age in 4 generations. If she dies in aMoL or soon after, the Tower is gonna try very hard to hide the last 5 years.

Also, no cooperation between AS & Asha'man? And what about the AS/AM bounded?

Enough things have not happened that looked "likely".

 

Also, what happened to Logain? Narishima?

Why would Avi's great-greandaughter care?

But nobody says a word about Aviendha herself - is she dead too? And what about Rand?

- The daughters (etc.) are seen as the Dragon's daughters. Not Avi. Which seems quite logical

- "Her mother had gained great ji in battle" was about Aviendha.

 

Yes, i know she's not immortal. It's the same about Aviendha, Logain and the others. I know Padra was referring to Aviendha we she thought about her mother, but what happened to her? My first point is that I can believe many of them died at TGD, but not all of them.

Point Two: Also, what i was trying to say is that both Egwene and Narishima (or Logain, or whoever was in charge of the WT & the BT and had been through the last battle) would try to not go to war with the seanchan, expecially because the seanchan could win, and it looks like it wasn't the seanchan who started. Yes, Eg might be dead, but what about all the other "smart" Aes Sedai? Elayne, Nyn, Cad, Siuan.. All of them? (see point One)

 

we know Mat is going to survive. So, what about him?

He's the Seanchan emperor (at least maried to the "old empress" from above)

So he has some power among the seanchan but he couldn't avoid a war? Weird....

 

Counterargument, RE Where's Mat: althought this is the only part of the vision that makes sense, IMO. We know Tuon is going to survive TGD and we know she will die in less than 20 years in the AltFuture. Which likely means she will be killed. We also know the Seanchan worship the Emperess - the nombles might make planes about her death, but nobody will ever try to have her killed, See Suroth reaction in KoD prologue. So, 20 years + dead tuon = something bad happened. Which probably means that Mat is also dead in the altFuture, and it makes sense that nothing changed in Seanchan society

 

Counter-Counterargument: if the seanchan still haven't changed and Tuon is dead, then Mat likely is. Does this means that none of his friends (some of them quite powerful) try to do anything? This leads me to another weird part. Point Three: lack of cooperations between countries. I'll try to belive that AS & AM still dislike each other and refuse to fight together but, as of TOM, almost all the world's leader are somehow related to the main characters. Going to war after 2 generations seems weird. Of course, anything could happen i aMoL.. but what could be enough to make everybody behave like all the things we read about in 13 books never happened?

 

Conclusion: I don't think all those things (everybody dies, people forget about what happened and don't give a dang about each other) can happen at the same time. This future might be possible, but is highly unlikely. It's like the WORST possible outcome, and i'm starting to believe the purpose of the vision was to show it to Aviendha, in order to avoid something like that.

[1Brotherbill]

This part of the book caused me to come here and see if it is just me bothered by the two chapters or if other people are as well.

 

The way everything is slowing down time wise in the books. I really don't see that this will ever be proven as fact or fiction. However, I have an issue with the Seanchan running willy nilly after the Last Battle.

 

A few points that were made earlier. One the Seanchan could just make the Suldam in the army people of Seanchan decent. That would free them up to take all the Damme they want. So that part of the future visions could be true.

 

I don't see the Aiel just hanging out in the wetlands as vagabonds for almost a hundred years. Even if there is a "Peace of the Dragon" what nation would let a armed and aggressive people hang out inside of there borders?

 

Also I can't imagine the "Dragons" being an Andor property for that long. It really wouldn't take all that much for someone to watch the "Dragons" fire and figure out what they are and how to make them.

 

Also the prospecting team in the Waste is kind of an issue. Does that mean that all channelers are gone. Because if the Seanchan rule like it implies they would use the metal finding skills of some of the Damme to find the metals right?

 

If this is how the books end. They will end up in the book burning festival.

[SylvanFox]

If this is how the books end. They will end up in the book burning festival.

 

In this case, I can totally see Ishamael's line of reasoning. Maybe those crystal pillars or whatever in Rhuidean show the worst case scenario for the future. That'd be really useful.

[shadowofomioc]

I've just read ToM, and seem surprised there is a consensus on here that the future Aviendha saw will not turn out to be the real one (aka that it can still be avoided).

 

Is there a reason everyone thinks so? I canot find any thread discussing the vericity of these viewings.

 

I'm honestly flabbergasted this vision gets ignored by most when discussing the future of Randland

 

Avi changed the Ter'angreal when she touched it. She even says so the first time through. She was going far into her own personal line of children, ancestors future and moving her way back to the present. She figures this out pretty quickly.

 

The reason most people think it will not happen anymore is because Avi found out about it. She was going to discuss the matter with the Wise Ones before confronting Rand and, probably, the rest of the world during the meeting with the news she found out. Or, Avi may just tell the Aiel and they will triple their efforts on taking out the Seachan, or atleast weakening them a ton. The future Avi saw was the future as it would have been, if everything played out how it was originally intended to be played. The dragons children would eventually become the reason for the fall of the world, and the Aiel, to the Seachan.

 

This of course, destroys my thinking that the True Source will be cut off during the fight with the Dark One. Hmmm .. now I have to rethink everything! BAH!

 

But yeah, Avi will not allow that future to occur if she can help it.

 

Atleast, it is A future. Not THE future. Nothing is the future until it becomes present. I think though that the future she saw was going to be THE future if things moved forward the way they were while Avi was going into the ter'angreal.

 

But now that Avi knows the potential problem of leaving the Seachan alone, she will not allow it to occur. And yes, the children, or line that you read about, is Rand's line of children. Is it Elayne's blood or Avi's? Rand may have alot of children with all 3 women. Which would point to him living past the last battle.

[baalsmistress]

 

Atleast, it is A future. Not THE future. Nothing is the future until it becomes present. I think though that the future she saw was going to be THE future if things moved forward the way they were while Avi was going into the ter'angreal.

 

 

We do know that Min's viewings are absolute. She's never wrong. The one time she thought she was wrong, and has reassured her that the future is not set, was occasioned by the mistaken belief that Moiraine was dead.

 

Likewise what I will call power-wrought prophecy seems to be absolute. It all comes to pass - the variables are in the detail of the wording.

 

The variable with the pillars is that it is unknown what the pillars are doing. Certainly she is seeing through the eyes of her descendants (as far as the end of her line), but whether that is a alternate world view or present world is unknown.

 

Certainly my impression of the ring ter'angreal is that it flickers the user through a huge number of mirror world futures for the user, and the user gets to know some things that always happen - ie. happen in every world she exists in, some things that may happen - ie do in some worlds and not in others. The other example of this was Rand's first effort to use a portal stone - all the people with him got flickered through other worlds for months.

 

So it all comes down to what and how the ter'angreal is doing.

 

Certainly a Seanchan domination of the world is plausible. Since they are the only military force at the present time with integrated unrestrained channellers and the unit doctrine developed and practiced over considerable battles. Added to them having a 100% conversion rate on captured channellers. THey are a serious threat

[OneDragon]

I don't think that it is very likely that the Seanchan would be able to conquer all of Randland, for the simple reason that they cant make circles + they have only access to the weaker half of Randlands chanellers, ie the women.

 

To win a war with non linking women against enemies with access to both men and women who can chanell and link would be like a tribe using only stone weapons beating the Romans in war really.

[shadowofomioc]

Kind of like Rand's first use of the Stone Portals where he went through hundreds of different lives of himself before finally getting them to where they wanted to go.

 

That is plausible. But it just too much of a coincedence for the ter'angreal to show the peoples past that happen to use it all the time, and then we see Avi doing her thing on it. Now suddenly it shows her the future of her line of children.

 

Just too much coincedence there.

 

First it shows the Aiel their ancestors. Then it shows an Aiel her descendants. Coincedence? I think not.

 

I think it showed her exactly what was going to take place if things were unchanged. We did not know what Rand was going to do at this meeting until we heard about his demand for peace from the ter'angreal. That was going to be one of the demands Rand placed upon the monarchs of the world if he is going to off and fight the dark one for them.

 

Things have changed though. Avi now knows. Moraine has returned, after she went into the ter'angreal, etc. So the future is already being rewritten from what Avi saw.

 

For better or worse? Not sure.

[nool]

I don't think that it is very likely that the Seanchan would be able to conquer all of Randland, for the simple reason that they cant make circles + they have only access to the weaker half of Randlands chanellers, ie the women.

 

To win a war with non linking women against enemies with access to both men and women who can chanell and link would be like a tribe using only stone weapons beating the Romans in war really.

 

But on the other hand the Seanchan are united, like the Romans (at least on this side of the ocean) whereas the Randland nations are divided(like tribes). OK, plenty of them gather together for TG, but there's still a lot of animosity between them. The AS and the BT aren't connected to one nation- would they be able to react and unify in time?

[baalsmistress]

I don't think that it is very likely that the Seanchan would be able to conquer all of Randland, for the simple reason that they cant make circles + they have only access to the weaker half of Randlands chanellers, ie the women.

 

To win a war with non linking women against enemies with access to both men and women who can chanell and link would be like a tribe using only stone weapons beating the Romans in war really.

 

Thing is, being in a linked circle really is only useful when fighting a shielding battle.

 

A circle could shield any channeller that was not linked, and could not be shielded by a non-linked channeller.

 

However, a non linked channeller could quite happily drop a fireball on a linked channeller without the link doing anything to protect them. The Damane only use shielding when they are hunting for new damane. In battle, they use direct damage primarially. It would be a trivial change to make enemy channellers the primary targets of that direct damage channelling.

 

No, the biggest disadvantage for the seanchan, is the adam. Not the prevention of circles, but rather that it makes the locations of each seanchan channeller absolutely obvious. Channellers in the randlanders armies could wear the same uniforms as regular troops and non-channellers would not be able to pick them out of the crowd. I believe that Egwene also knows how to hide her channelling ability. That skill, passed on, would allow for considerable use of ambush tactics against damane.

[baalsmistress]

Kind of like Rand's first use of the Stone Portals where he went through hundreds of different lives of himself before finally getting them to where they wanted to go.

 

That is plausible. But it just too much of a coincedence for the ter'angreal to show the peoples past that happen to use it all the time, and then we see Avi doing her thing on it. Now suddenly it shows her the future of her line of children.

 

Just too much coincedence there.

 

First it shows the Aiel their ancestors. Then it shows an Aiel her descendants. Coincedence? I think not.

 

I think it showed her exactly what was going to take place if things were unchanged. We did not know what Rand was going to do at this meeting until we heard about his demand for peace from the ter'angreal. That was going to be one of the demands Rand placed upon the monarchs of the world if he is going to off and fight the dark one for them.

 

Things have changed though. Avi now knows. Moraine has returned, after she went into the ter'angreal, etc. So the future is already being rewritten from what Avi saw.

 

For better or worse? Not sure.

 

Remember, the pillars were always tied to bloodlines. The history it showed was always through the eyes of your bloodline back through history. What seems to have happened is the start point has moved forwards from the present day to the end of Avienda's line. A huge change in effect, though perhaps not all that much change in design.

 

As for it being a coincidence that it showed an Aiel her descendants - that she was an Aiel is no coincidence at all. It's an Aiel artifact, one that every Aiel wise one and clan chief has used. And one that none other than Aiel have used save Moiraine (Rand has an Aiel bloodline).

 

Moiraine's return has no bearing at all on the avienda vision. The only thing it does mean is that Min is back to being infallible.

 

As it stands, we have no reason whatsoever to doubt the veracity or immutability of Avienda's vision. Every time someone has fought to evade a prophecy throughout the book series, their struggle to evade the prophecy has brought about it's fulfillment.

[MasterAblar]

Thing is, being in a linked circle really is only useful when fighting a shielding battle.

 

A circle could shield any channeller that was not linked, and could not be shielded by a non-linked channeller.

 

However, a non linked channeller could quite happily drop a fireball on a linked channeller without the link doing anything to protect them. The Damane only use shielding when they are hunting for new damane. In battle, they use direct damage primarially. It would be a trivial change to make enemy channellers the primary targets of that direct damage channelling.

 

Not necessarily. When you're defending in close quarters, say in a corridor, a circle is great because your enemy can't surround you. However when it's not close quarters, a cirle is at great risk of being surrounded and with only one person weaving, it would mean defeat. The solution in that case is to have individual channellers defending the circle while it deals with the enemy channellers. A circle is a risky tactic, but if used carefully, it can be very effective.

 

No, the biggest disadvantage for the seanchan, is the adam. Not the prevention of circles, but rather that it makes the locations of each seanchan channeller absolutely obvious. Channellers in the randlanders armies could wear the same uniforms as regular troops and non-channellers would not be able to pick them out of the crowd. I believe that Egwene also knows how to hide her channelling ability. That skill, passed on, would allow for considerable use of ambush tactics against damane.

 

The adam has another disadvantage. It requires a suldam. That means it's twice the target, and just putting the suldam off balance could gain you the advantage.