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clu7ch

Let's talk about Taim, Baby

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I'm very interested in other people's opinions of him.

Myself, I'm inclined to say he's the prophesied broken wolf, and that he's probably been converted by the 13/13 game. Because we all know there's sunshine, lolipops and rainbows under the dark storm clouds and probable madness caused by years of tainted saidin.

 

GO!

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There are a great many theories out there concerning Demandred.

 

Loads of zealots still believe that he is Taim, though a passage in (I believe?) Crossroads of Twilight made that highly unlikely.

 

Some believe he is in Shara, but that also seems unlikely, if he is to have an army ready to attack for The Last Battle. Also, Brandon has said that Shara is not a significant part of A Memory of Light.

 

A few suppose his army is made up from the channelers from the Isle of Madmen. Again, seems like a reach. Could he organize them?

 

The two that DO seem very likely are:

 

He is in disguise among the Black Tower coterie (Taim adherents) and guiding Taim from close by, or;

 

He is King Roedran of Murandy in disguise.

 

I like the first because that would be one hell of an army. The second works for me for reasons of pure logic. We've never seen Roedran, never met him, but we know that he has acted in a Machiavellian manner not associated with Roedran usually. He hired Talmanes and the Band to help secure his rule in Murandy.

 

Someone acts in a manner not consistent with the 'usual'. Change is very much in evidence (stability in Murandy?). Time to get those Forsaken theories down on paper.

 

As for Taim himself? I figure he is nothing more than a powerful channeler and a highly ranked Dreadlord. Nothing in the books indicates anything more, unless you believe in the Taimandred theory.

Edited by aross

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Ok, well, Im like the worst Taim=Moridin fanatic around these parts. Ive got this image of my head of Rand having been told that if he goes to the Black Tower, he'll die unless Perrin can die in his place. So he has no choice but to take Perrin or the world dies (offering his friend for sacrifice)

 

So Rand goes in with his entourage, Taims stood on some high balcony or something, surrounded by his cronies, and theres a standstill. Rand calls up to him "I see you, Ishamael." Taim throws back his head and laughs, then shoots balefire-at Perrin, and Perrin dies; the second time he needed to be with Rand. Epic rending of fire and blood ensues.

Edited by Drekka Mort

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Oh yeah i forgot that there was some mention about perrin needing to be with rand or rand would die - i think the first time was dumais wells, right?

 

Thanks for jogging my memory on this issue :)

Edited by Dewairah

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He'll die in a little puff of smoke with no great detail. Taim's character has had little to no character build up. So there will also be no great end to him. :smile:

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I disagree, he's the darkhorse lurking in the shadows.

 

Take into account all the mentions of Rand needing to do something about Taim, Logain's warning, POVs from Logain's BT faction and of course Taim's army of lackeys. Something's building, a gathering storm if you will. To just end it all with a small scale, meaningless death with no repercussions would be ridiculous.

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I think Taim is gonna have some bad arse angreal/sa'angreal/ter'angreals under his employ, besides the dreamspike. And I think he's been trained in battle by Moridin.

 

In other words - I think Taim is going to be bad assery in a black coat.

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im an advocate of the Taim=Moridin theory. not just the red and black but he also displays mannerisms like holding his arm behind his back like rand does now that hes lost his hand which goes along with the link between the two (ToM ch 53) its just not how normal people would walk (i dunno i could be stretching here). and the dreamspike etc etc. i think taim was under damos control to start but that ishy took over the BT. i also believe that Logains glory is that of the black tower and being the one to lead the ashaman into the next stage. part of that is also cuz im a firm believer since i was 15 that rands toast lol. taim is def a df but hes logains problem.

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(...) i also believe that Logains glory is that of the black tower and being the one to lead the ashaman into the next stage. part of that is also cuz im a firm believer since i was 15 that rands toast lol. taim is def a df but hes logains problem.

 

Now that's quite a life credo :laugh:

 

(not that I wouldn't agree, of course Rand is toast, painful though it is)

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Just so you know, I am now boycotting the AMOL forum so that I don't keep getting that stupid song stuck in my head.

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Does anyone have a solid explanation of why Taim refers to the Aiel in this manner?

It's time you started rasing an army of your own instead of depending on others.

Bashere could change his mind; he will, if Queen Tenobia tells him to. And who can know what these so-called

Aiel will do.

Other than;

1. He is Moridin. (I doubt he is, Moridin has been busy in the Blight Marshaling the Tolloc Armies while Taim has been shown to be also busy in the BT).

2. He is one of the Forsaken. (Everyone is already accounted for except Demandred, and RJ has already said flat out that Taim is not Demandred).

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Does anyone have a solid explanation of why Taim refers to the Aiel in this manner?

It's time you started rasing an army of your own instead of depending on others.

Bashere could change his mind; he will, if Queen Tenobia tells him to. And who can know what these so-called

Aiel will do.

Other than;

1. He is Moridin. (I doubt he is, Moridin has been busy in the Blight Marshaling the Tolloc Armies while Taim has been shown to be also busy in the BT).

2. He is one of the Forsaken. (Everyone is already accounted for except Demandred, and RJ has already said flat out that Taim is not Demandred).

 

He was a young boy in Saldea during the Aiel war. No doubt he heard tons of stories about the Aiel, especially after the war when the soldiers returned home. And no doubt those stories would have been extremely exagerrated, to really show how dangerous the Aiel were (and thus how brave and great the soldiers who fought them and survived were).

And now he gets too see Aiel with hjis own eyes. Contrary to the stories, they are not 3 meters tall, feasting on the flesh of fallen enemeis or something similarily nonsensical that he might have heard.

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I can understand that interpretation but I must say that to me, that line has a lot more meaning behind it.

 

It certainly sounds like it's coming from someone who was around in the AoL and who knew the 'true' Aiel who followed the Way of the Leaf. Just like the Forsaken refer to modern day AS as so-called Aes Sedai.

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Does anyone have a solid explanation of why Taim refers to the Aiel in this manner?

 

Taim in my mind is the kind of person to emulate his betters. Not long after he's in charge of the Black Tower he's wearing a coat embroidered with dragons, like Rand's own markings, and only he and Rand wear neither sword nor dragon pin. We see this with the Forsaken as well with his black and red colors and the symbol of a fist gripping lightning which both Be'lal and Sammael had. I think the "so called Aiel" comment is much of the same. During his time training under Ishamael, a popular theory, he simply heard Ishamael use the phrase and he just copied it, as he is wont to do.

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Just so you know, I am now boycotting the AMOL forum so that I don't keep getting that stupid song stuck in my head.

 

 

You're right, it's damaging.

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Does anyone have a solid explanation of why Taim refers to the Aiel in this manner?

 

Taim in my mind is the kind of person to emulate his betters. Not long after he's in charge of the Black Tower he's wearing a coat embroidered with dragons, like Rand's own markings, and only he and Rand wear neither sword nor dragon pin. We see this with the Forsaken as well with his black and red colors and the symbol of a fist gripping lightning which both Be'lal and Sammael had. I think the "so called Aiel" comment is much of the same. During his time training under Ishamael, a popular theory, he simply heard Ishamael use the phrase and he just copied it, as he is wont to do.

 

I think that's pretty substantial, I'm buying it until something better comes along.

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"... And that Kash. Where did he ever come from, and how did he grow so powerful so quickly?" From ToM, page 690. I believe Kash is Demandred, for this is exactly the scenario Rand outlined with recruits to Taim (who of course ignores it).

 

Before the Last Battle begins in earnest, Rand will need to resolve the situation at the Black Tower. He and Perrin are in the same place now, and are the only 2 on the side of light with an inclination of what a Dream Spike is. Perrin suspects one is at the BT, and Rand does as well through his memories as LTT (he sends Naeff to a place a day's ride out in disguise.

 

Here's how I think it will play out... Rand and Perrin will conduct a joint attack on the BT, and Logain will come in as well, marshaling the Asha's loyal to Rand and winning over a few more. Demandred will not be able to contain himself seeing Rand, having his hatred for LTT come out in full force, Rand and he will probably get into another game of cat and mouse that enters TAR, Leaving Logain to deal with Taim (I believe there was a viewing by Min of a false puppet of Rand being defeated by Logain, and Logain's star would definitely rise by defeating Taim). In the midst of all this, Perrin encounters Salyer in the dream again, chasing down the last known dream spike. This time Perrin will get the better of Slayer, since he will have a chance to compare notes with Egwene and learn even more about how to control things in TAR (wouldn't it be nice to see Slayer rendered powerless, then torn apart by a pack of wolves?).

 

Once things are settled with the BT, then everyone can move on to more mundane things like Tarmon Gaiden.

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"a chance to compare notes with Egwene" Meh. Egwene is at best third rate at TAR compared to Slayer and 2nd rate compared to Perrin. She would get molested so badly in TAR by the Slayer, it will not be a pretty sight. Probably even worse than if she fought Rand or Ishamael in an OP battle.

 

Perrin needs to man up and become a true hunter/wolf in TAR in order to have any hope against THE SLAYER/RULER SUPREME OF TAR.

 

 

 

 

I put my wager on Taim=Ishamael. Book 10 or 11 nailed it, his meeting with that AS woman.

 

Who in this Age has that kind of dominating presence beside Rand? The new Ishamael. Well, even the old Ishamael, the Forsaken were afraid of him and he had the presence.

 

Taim makes even the likes of Mat, Egwene, Perrin, Logain seem at best pretend leaders.

 

Due to the value of the ter'angreal, it is doubtful he would just hand that over to someone who is just similar to Logain.

 

Among many other clues, only the Forsaken call the Aiel "so-called", which Taim did way back in book 6...and since he cannot be Demandred.

 

 

Logain is in trouble. If it is indeed Ishamael, he is no match whatsoever.

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Among many other clues, only the Forsaken call the Aiel "so-called", which Taim did way back in book 6...

 

I'm on my first re-read, and I just passed a point where Moridin in disguise is referring to the Aiel as so-called Aiel. I can't actually remember any of the other Forsaken using the same words... Have I just forgotten?

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