Egwene versus Perrin.. who is better in the TAR/Wolf Dream?

[Kahsm]

I don't see how the Egwene faction think they have a leg to stand on.

Egwene beat messy in TAR but that was a contest of wills in combat she was really quite amature, Bairs comment about her being obvious proved that.

While Perrin in contrast has had exstensive TAR combat training and has faced one of TAR's most deadly hunters. And for thoses who doubt Slayers TAR prowess let's look at the facts. He is one man with two souls both of which were princes. (I don't know why that's relevent but it would be too much of a coincidence to be just chance) He can enter TAR in the flesh which makes him stronger and seems to be the shadows main man in TAR, which says something considering they have lanny an moggy. He hunts wolves in TAR which are the most adept creatures there.

Perrin showed at the end of ToM that he is so confedant in TAR he tried to wash away the DO's corruption of it by himself, don't think eggy would try that.

 

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

[damandred]

I don't see how the Egwene faction think they have a leg to stand on.

Egwene beat messy in TAR but that was a contest of wills in combat she was really quite amature, Bairs comment about her being obvious proved that.

While Perrin in contrast has had exstensive TAR combat training and has faced one of TAR's most deadly hunters. And for thoses who doubt Slayers TAR prowess let's look at the facts. He is one man with two souls both of which were princes. (I don't know why that's relevent but it would be too much of a coincidence to be just chance) He can enter TAR in the flesh which makes him stronger and seems to be the shadows main man in TAR, which says something considering they have lanny an moggy. He hunts wolves in TAR which are the most adept creatures there.

Perrin showed at the end of ToM that he is so confedant in TAR he tried to wash away the DO's corruption of it by himself, don't think eggy would try that.

 

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

 

 

Perrin could defeat the dream spike (something the WO's or Messy seemed unable to do) so its doubtfull whether Egwene would be able to hold him anywhere in TAR against his will.

[cookiecrisp]

I don't see how the Egwene faction think they have a leg to stand on.

Egwene beat messy in TAR but that was a contest of wills in combat she was really quite amature, Bairs comment about her being obvious proved that.

While Perrin in contrast has had exstensive TAR combat training and has faced one of TAR's most deadly hunters. And for thoses who doubt Slayers TAR prowess let's look at the facts. He is one man with two souls both of which were princes. (I don't know why that's relevent but it would be too much of a coincidence to be just chance) He can enter TAR in the flesh which makes him stronger and seems to be the shadows main man in TAR, which says something considering they have lanny an moggy. He hunts wolves in TAR which are the most adept creatures there.

Perrin showed at the end of ToM that he is so confedant in TAR he tried to wash away the DO's corruption of it by himself, don't think eggy would try that.

 

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

 

Eggy's fighting style is precisely why she can't beat Slayer.

 

She can defeat forsaken because they fight like humans, and can get tied down by force of will. However, her skill in TAR is still surpassed by Bair, who commented on her predictability and lack of innovation. Despite being among the top 10 dream walkers of any humans in WOT, Bair and Egwene don't have anywhere close to the strength required to fight Slayer.

 

As someone's already claimed, Moghedien, the strongest dream walker in the series, was scared out of her pants by the prospect of getting between Rahvin and Rand's duel. Rahvin could be explained as an expert in TAR combat but Rand can not. Rand has no clue how to fight in TAR and was using instinct alone. His instinct couldn't have been very strong, as he's a man and no creature of TAR. If someone who has absolutely no clue how to fight in TAR will frighten it's most adept denizen by being there in the flesh, it undoubtedly affords them an advantage in strength that can't be outmatched by adroit manipulation of TAR. Being in TAR in the flesh is considered "something of the shadow" and we will most likely not see any light siders attempt to fight Slayer this way as they believe it will leave something of you permanently there.

 

Bela, Cenn Buie, and Raen could spank Egwene's bottom all day and night if they were in TAR in the flesh.

 

Slayer is a beast, a lion. Egwene's a human, she's one of the most adroit fighters. However, Slayer's beyond the skill of talented human martial artists. Perrin and the pack are shown to have the capacity to defeat him. With enough wolves, the pack can down even the lion.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Slayer is going to go down (I hope for a waking world battle between him and Lan, and perhaps the wolves can help if they go north to Tarwin's Gap to help him), but I'm almost absolutely certain that he will not be getting killed by a traditional dream walker in a duel.

[Kahsm]

I don't see how the Egwene faction think they have a leg to stand on.

Egwene beat messy in TAR but that was a contest of wills in combat she was really quite amature, Bairs comment about her being obvious proved that.

While Perrin in contrast has had exstensive TAR combat training and has faced one of TAR's most deadly hunters. And for thoses who doubt Slayers TAR prowess let's look at the facts. He is one man with two souls both of which were princes. (I don't know why that's relevent but it would be too much of a coincidence to be just chance) He can enter TAR in the flesh which makes him stronger and seems to be the shadows main man in TAR, which says something considering they have lanny an moggy. He hunts wolves in TAR which are the most adept creatures there.

Perrin showed at the end of ToM that he is so confedant in TAR he tried to wash away the DO's corruption of it by himself, don't think eggy would try that.

 

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

 

Eggy's fighting style is precisely why she can't beat Slayer.

 

She can defeat forsaken because they fight like humans, and can get tied down by force of will. However, her skill in TAR is still surpassed by Bair, who commented on her predictability and lack of innovation. Despite being among the top 10 dream walkers of any humans in WOT, Bair and Egwene don't have anywhere close to the strength required to fight Slayer.

 

As someone's already claimed, Moghedien, the strongest dream walker in the series, was scared out of her pants by the prospect of getting between Rahvin and Rand's duel. Rahvin could be explained as an expert in TAR combat but Rand can not. Rand has no clue how to fight in TAR and was using instinct alone. His instinct couldn't have been very strong, as he's a man and no creature of TAR. If someone who has absolutely no clue how to fight in TAR will frighten it's most adept denizen by being there in the flesh, it undoubtedly affords them an advantage in strength that can't be outmatched by adroit manipulation of TAR. Being in TAR in the flesh is considered "something of the shadow" and we will most likely not see any light siders attempt to fight Slayer this way as they believe it will leave something of you permanently there.

 

Bela, Cenn Buie, and Raen could spank Egwene's bottom all day and night if they were in TAR in the flesh.

 

Slayer is a beast, a lion. Egwene's a human, she's one of the most adroit fighters. However, Slayer's beyond the skill of talented human martial artists. Perrin and the pack are shown to have the capacity to defeat him. With enough wolves, the pack can down even the lion.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Slayer is going to go down (I hope for a waking world battle between him and Lan, and perhaps the wolves can help if they go north to Tarwin's Gap to help him), but I'm almost absolutely certain that he will not be getting killed by a traditional dream walker in a duel.

 

Mohg specifically says she's scared because they were there in the flesh and could channel much more strongly. And then she was more scared when she found ut they were throwing balefire around willy nilly. And given mogh had forgotten she could just will the leash away, she was clearly not in a clear thinking state. Oh, and mohg is a coward by nature. None of that fear had to do with TAR-ing.

 

And I have asked for proof that Slayer is a beast, no one has ever offered any. I get that you got that feeling when reading it. But Padan Fain shows some epic powers, slayer does not. This post goes right back to my previous post where you think slayer is good because he beats perrin, and you think Perrin is good because he almost beats slayer. Well guess what, they might both just suck.

 

What makes you think Egwene cannot lock down slayer? Or that Elayne or Nynaeve couldn't do it even? Because his name is cool?

[TheTuninator]

I have to come down on Perrin's side simply because, well, it is the Wolf Dream at the end of the day, and Perrin's a wolf. Egwene may be highly skilled in surviving and manipulating Tel'aran'rhiod, but Perrin is a wolf; it's his home turf. They're both skilled at TAR in different ways, but Perrin understands the nature of it much better and has the wolves within to guide and aid him.

 

I think Egwene will now be more effective as Perrin's made her realize using the Dream itself is far more effective than using the OP within the dream, but I still don't think she'll surpass Perrin.

And yes, Egwene did down a Forsaken, but Perrin bested Slayer, and Slayer's proven himself far, far more dangerous of an opponent in the Wolf Dream than any of the Forsaken.

 

I doubt that Eggy or Nynaeve (whom, unlike Eggy, I actually do love, so no bias here) could beat Slayer in the wolf dream simply because, like Bair, he isn't shackled by his use of the One Power. He has no restrictions in his ability and as such would easily steamroll over any Aes Sedai who will reflexively turn to the Power instead of simply acting. Furthermore, he seems far more powerful than even the Forsaken in the Wolf Dream; his immense strength has been cited time and time again.

 

I think Egwene will be far more effective now that she's seen vividly how much more efficient it is to simply think instead of use the Power, but she's still got that reliance at the core of her being, and I can't imagine it'd be easy to shake. Perrin, with no such reliance, is free to manipulate TAR to its full potential without unconsciously holding himself back.

 

I also can't imagine Egwene could beat Perrin in a contest of wills. They're both Two Rivers stubborn born and raised, and out of the two, Perrin's the ta'veren. I'd give them parity in a contest of wills for sure, but either side the victor? I highly doubt it.

 

And again, Perrin will react just as fast as Egwene, if not faster; see his teleporting battles with Slayer. He's got extensive experience with acting lightning-quick in the Wolf Dream. So Egwene teleporting him to her and locking him down...not likely to be effective.

 

Not that I'd put it past her to try, after what she did to Perrin in ToM.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I don't see how the Egwene faction think they have a leg to stand on.

Egwene beat messy in TAR but that was a contest of wills in combat she was really quite amature, Bairs comment about her being obvious proved that.

While Perrin in contrast has had exstensive TAR combat training and has faced one of TAR's most deadly hunters. And for thoses who doubt Slayers TAR prowess let's look at the facts. He is one man with two souls both of which were princes. (I don't know why that's relevent but it would be too much of a coincidence to be just chance) He can enter TAR in the flesh which makes him stronger and seems to be the shadows main man in TAR, which says something considering they have lanny an moggy. He hunts wolves in TAR which are the most adept creatures there.

Perrin showed at the end of ToM that he is so confedant in TAR he tried to wash away the DO's corruption of it by himself, don't think eggy would try that.

 

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

 

Eggy's fighting style is precisely why she can't beat Slayer.

 

She can defeat forsaken because they fight like humans, and can get tied down by force of will. However, her skill in TAR is still surpassed by Bair, who commented on her predictability and lack of innovation. Despite being among the top 10 dream walkers of any humans in WOT, Bair and Egwene don't have anywhere close to the strength required to fight Slayer.

 

As someone's already claimed, Moghedien, the strongest dream walker in the series, was scared out of her pants by the prospect of getting between Rahvin and Rand's duel. Rahvin could be explained as an expert in TAR combat but Rand can not. Rand has no clue how to fight in TAR and was using instinct alone. His instinct couldn't have been very strong, as he's a man and no creature of TAR. If someone who has absolutely no clue how to fight in TAR will frighten it's most adept denizen by being there in the flesh, it undoubtedly affords them an advantage in strength that can't be outmatched by adroit manipulation of TAR. Being in TAR in the flesh is considered "something of the shadow" and we will most likely not see any light siders attempt to fight Slayer this way as they believe it will leave something of you permanently there.

 

Bela, Cenn Buie, and Raen could spank Egwene's bottom all day and night if they were in TAR in the flesh.

 

Slayer is a beast, a lion. Egwene's a human, she's one of the most adroit fighters. However, Slayer's beyond the skill of talented human martial artists. Perrin and the pack are shown to have the capacity to defeat him. With enough wolves, the pack can down even the lion.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Slayer is going to go down (I hope for a waking world battle between him and Lan, and perhaps the wolves can help if they go north to Tarwin's Gap to help him), but I'm almost absolutely certain that he will not be getting killed by a traditional dream walker in a duel.

 

Mohg specifically says she's scared because they were there in the flesh and could channel much more strongly. And then she was more scared when she found ut they were throwing balefire around willy nilly. And given mogh had forgotten she could just will the leash away, she was clearly not in a clear thinking state. Oh, and mohg is a coward by nature. None of that fear had to do with TAR-ing.

 

And I have asked for proof that Slayer is a beast, no one has ever offered any. I get that you got that feeling when reading it. But Padan Fain shows some epic powers, slayer does not. This post goes right back to my previous post where you think slayer is good because he beats perrin, and you think Perrin is good because he almost beats slayer. Well guess what, they might both just suck.

 

What makes you think Egwene cannot lock down slayer? Or that Elayne or Nynaeve couldn't do it even? Because his name is cool?

 

Because the source of Egwene's will power is her personal confidence and pride in White Tower, while Perrin's is the fact that TAR is his home, where he, the wolf, reigns supreme. Egwene is powerful in TAR, but she wouldn't have a chance in any kind of fight, including the duel of wills. Perrin was able to defeat a nightmare, Egwene has to avoid them. Perrin's sense of self is now so strong she wouldn't be able to change a thing about him.

[MasterAblar]

I don't see how the Egwene faction think they have a leg to stand on.

Egwene beat messy in TAR but that was a contest of wills in combat she was really quite amature, Bairs comment about her being obvious proved that.

While Perrin in contrast has had exstensive TAR combat training and has faced one of TAR's most deadly hunters. And for thoses who doubt Slayers TAR prowess let's look at the facts. He is one man with two souls both of which were princes. (I don't know why that's relevent but it would be too much of a coincidence to be just chance) He can enter TAR in the flesh which makes him stronger and seems to be the shadows main man in TAR, which says something considering they have lanny an moggy. He hunts wolves in TAR which are the most adept creatures there.

Perrin showed at the end of ToM that he is so confedant in TAR he tried to wash away the DO's corruption of it by himself, don't think eggy would try that.

 

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

 

Eggy's fighting style is precisely why she can't beat Slayer.

 

She can defeat forsaken because they fight like humans, and can get tied down by force of will. However, her skill in TAR is still surpassed by Bair, who commented on her predictability and lack of innovation. Despite being among the top 10 dream walkers of any humans in WOT, Bair and Egwene don't have anywhere close to the strength required to fight Slayer.

 

As someone's already claimed, Moghedien, the strongest dream walker in the series, was scared out of her pants by the prospect of getting between Rahvin and Rand's duel. Rahvin could be explained as an expert in TAR combat but Rand can not. Rand has no clue how to fight in TAR and was using instinct alone. His instinct couldn't have been very strong, as he's a man and no creature of TAR. If someone who has absolutely no clue how to fight in TAR will frighten it's most adept denizen by being there in the flesh, it undoubtedly affords them an advantage in strength that can't be outmatched by adroit manipulation of TAR. Being in TAR in the flesh is considered "something of the shadow" and we will most likely not see any light siders attempt to fight Slayer this way as they believe it will leave something of you permanently there.

 

Bela, Cenn Buie, and Raen could spank Egwene's bottom all day and night if they were in TAR in the flesh.

 

Slayer is a beast, a lion. Egwene's a human, she's one of the most adroit fighters. However, Slayer's beyond the skill of talented human martial artists. Perrin and the pack are shown to have the capacity to defeat him. With enough wolves, the pack can down even the lion.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Slayer is going to go down (I hope for a waking world battle between him and Lan, and perhaps the wolves can help if they go north to Tarwin's Gap to help him), but I'm almost absolutely certain that he will not be getting killed by a traditional dream walker in a duel.

 

Mohg specifically says she's scared because they were there in the flesh and could channel much more strongly. And then she was more scared when she found ut they were throwing balefire around willy nilly. And given mogh had forgotten she could just will the leash away, she was clearly not in a clear thinking state. Oh, and mohg is a coward by nature. None of that fear had to do with TAR-ing.

 

And I have asked for proof that Slayer is a beast, no one has ever offered any. I get that you got that feeling when reading it. But Padan Fain shows some epic powers, slayer does not. This post goes right back to my previous post where you think slayer is good because he beats perrin, and you think Perrin is good because he almost beats slayer. Well guess what, they might both just suck.

 

What makes you think Egwene cannot lock down slayer? Or that Elayne or Nynaeve couldn't do it even? Because his name is cool?

 

So the wolves are just all ignorant when they claim that Slayer is very dangerous in the Dream? What about Graendal who thinks that Slayer knows he's special? And Perrin who says that Slayer is very strong, is he ignorant? And why would Moridin give Slayer to Graendal for the purpose of guarding the Dreamspike if he wasn't entirely confident of Slayer's abilities in TAR? Do the Wise Ones' opinions just supercede and negate all of theirs?

 

Perrin spends his time training for his confrontation with Slayer by repeatedly going into nightmares, and in the end he, and an entire pack of wolves, cannot bring Slayer down. Personally, I think there's plenty of evidence that Slayer is badass in TAR. And it has nothing to do with people wanting Perrin to look good. Perrin isn't even a particularly loved character.

[TheTuninator]

 

Perrin spends his time training for his confrontation with Slayer by repeatedly going into nightmares, and in the end he, and an entire pack of wolves, cannot bring Slayer down. Personally, I think there's plenty of evidence that Slayer is badass in TAR. And it has nothing to do with people wanting Perrin to look good. Perrin isn't even a particularly loved character.

 

I'm inclined to agree.

Slayer's sheer refusal to die in TAR is enough to convince me. How many times has it been, now? Three, four hundred?

 

Even the Forsaken fold before the main characters like a deck of cards by comparison.

[Skeeve the Great]

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

 

I'm wondering, at what point in the series Egwene was even remotely able to do just a portion of the deed in TAR you claim she's capable of? Were there was this "lock down" stuff happened? As far as I remember, Egwene was handed her ass in the TAR battle, she allowed herself to be captured (yet again!) and only Mesaana stupidity allowed Egwene to crush Mesaana's mind.

 

I repeat, nowhere in the series Egwene even remotely is able to lock down anyone. WO's Dreamwalkers can beat her any day any time as far as TAR things concerned.

[Master of Germs]

Egwene vs. Perrin in TAR. Who would win?! Really, who cares!?!

If it is cross-country battle like some CS, i'd bet on Perrin. If it is just battle of wills and minds, it'd be Egwene. I think she would defeat even Rand if he was not ta'veren. At least she is able to stand and talk while everybody else just gazes speechless. All of these are stubborn, but Egwene leads at that point.

And I hope I never see my two favourite characters (Perrin and Egwene) fight against each other.

But Egwene+Perrin TAR team fight against decent rivals is something that would give me a reading orgasm!

[TheTuninator]

Egwene vs. Perrin in TAR. Who would win?! Really, who cares!?!

If it is cross-country battle like some CS, i'd bet on Perrin. If it is just battle of wills and minds, it'd be Egwene. I think she would defeat even Rand if he was not ta'veren. At least she is able to stand and talk while everybody else just gazes speechless. All of these are stubborn, but Egwene leads at that point.

And I hope I never see my two favourite characters (Perrin and Egwene) fight against each other.

But Egwene+Perrin TAR team fight against decent rivals is something that would give me a reading orgasm!

 

Given the buildup, I'd be shocked if we didn't see something along those lines in aMoL. I fully expect Egwene & Perrin to lead some kind of battle in TAR at some point while their counterparts fight in the physical realm. Egwene's a skilled channeler, but she can be of far more use there.

 

Seeing the two of them team up to take down Slayer would be interesting, although I'd prefer it if Perrin did that one himself.

[Master of Germs]

Egwene vs. Perrin in TAR. Who would win?! Really, who cares!?!

If it is cross-country battle like some CS, i'd bet on Perrin. If it is just battle of wills and minds, it'd be Egwene. I think she would defeat even Rand if he was not ta'veren. At least she is able to stand and talk while everybody else just gazes speechless. All of these are stubborn, but Egwene leads at that point.

And I hope I never see my two favourite characters (Perrin and Egwene) fight against each other.

But Egwene+Perrin TAR team fight against decent rivals is something that would give me a reading orgasm!

 

Given the buildup, I'd be shocked if we didn't see something along those lines in aMoL. I fully expect Egwene & Perrin to lead some kind of battle in TAR at some point while their counterparts fight in the physical realm. Egwene's a skilled channeler, but she can be of far more use there.

 

Seeing the two of them team up to take down Slayer would be interesting, although I'd prefer it if Perrin did that one himself.

 

Me, too! But Slayer can be backed up by Moridin's orders. Let's say by his "twin slaves" Moggy and Cyndane. So Egwene cah hold these two at a stalemate while Perrin sets the checkmate for Slayer. Sounds a bit improbable, I know, but in my country there is a proverb: "Hope dies last" ;)

[MasterAblar]

Egwene vs. Perrin in TAR. Who would win?! Really, who cares!?!

If it is cross-country battle like some CS, i'd bet on Perrin. If it is just battle of wills and minds, it'd be Egwene. I think she would defeat even Rand if he was not ta'veren. At least she is able to stand and talk while everybody else just gazes speechless. All of these are stubborn, but Egwene leads at that point.

And I hope I never see my two favourite characters (Perrin and Egwene) fight against each other.

But Egwene+Perrin TAR team fight against decent rivals is something that would give me a reading orgasm!

 

Given the buildup, I'd be shocked if we didn't see something along those lines in aMoL. I fully expect Egwene & Perrin to lead some kind of battle in TAR at some point while their counterparts fight in the physical realm. Egwene's a skilled channeler, but she can be of far more use there.

 

Seeing the two of them team up to take down Slayer would be interesting, although I'd prefer it if Perrin did that one himself.

 

Me, too! But Slayer can be backed up by Moridin's orders. Let's say by his "twin slaves" Moggy and Cyndane. So Egwene cah hold these two at a stalemate while Perrin sets the checkmate for Slayer. Sounds a bit improbable, I know, but in my country there is a proverb: "Hope dies last" ;)

 

Egwene against Moghedien and Lanfear? Yeah, that's just a tad improbable.

[damandred]

How about Egwene+the WO's v Moggy+Lanfear with Alvarin and some of the BA thrown in for cannon fodder, with Perrin v Slayer as the main event. Yes!

[TheTuninator]

How about Egwene+the WO's v Moggy+Lanfear with Alvarin and some of the BA thrown in for cannon fodder, with Perrin v Slayer as the main event. Yes!

 

Now that I can get behind.

 

Although I don't always agree with what Egwene does, I am fully in support of more Egwene ass-kicking in TAR; her TAR scenes usually make for quite an enjoyable read.

[Renzokuken]

Just finished reading ToM all I have to say is Perrin stopped Balefire....

Just saying, oh and he bested Slayer in a nightmare which most others from Tel'aran'rhiod completely avoid..

V/R

S

[Lisa Campbell]

Just finished reading ToM all I have to say is Perrin stopped Balefire....

Just saying, oh and he bested Slayer in a nightmare which most others from Tel'aran'rhiod completely avoid..

V/R

S

 

I remember from one of the books re: Egwene's apprenticeship that the Wise Ones take care of any nightmares they come across. Egwene passed that on to Nynaeve and Elayne which is why they knew how to help Sheriam and co. when they got sucked into a nightmare in Salidar. I think it was set up by Moghedian before Nynaeve captured her.

[Xcorpyo001]

Just finished reading ToM all I have to say is Perrin stopped Balefire....

Just saying, oh and he bested Slayer in a nightmare which most others from Tel'aran'rhiod completely avoid..

V/R

S

 

I remember from one of the books re: Egwene's apprenticeship that the Wise Ones take care of any nightmares they come across. Egwene passed that on to Nynaeve and Elayne which is why they knew how to help Sheriam and co. when they got sucked into a nightmare in Salidar. I think it was set up by Moghedian before Nynaeve captured her.

 

 

Yes, but they do it differently. The WO and Egwene try to close the nightmare completely, usually from outside, and stay away from the stronger ones.

And how Elayne+AS managed to escape: they tried to imagine that the nightmare is not real. So they escaped the Trollocs by thinking they were not there.

How Perrin is doing it is totally different. He seeks out a nightmare and faces the threat, not try to run from it. So, if he enters a cave full of Trollocs, he does not run, he just creates a hammer/axe and doesn't stop until there are no more live Trollocs.

Dealing with nightmares, wolf style. I like his way.

[Thor]

I don't see how the Egwene faction think they have a leg to stand on.

Egwene beat messy in TAR but that was a contest of wills in combat she was really quite amature, Bairs comment about her being obvious proved that.

While Perrin in contrast has had exstensive TAR combat training and has faced one of TAR's most deadly hunters. And for thoses who doubt Slayers TAR prowess let's look at the facts. He is one man with two souls both of which were princes. (I don't know why that's relevent but it would be too much of a coincidence to be just chance) He can enter TAR in the flesh which makes him stronger and seems to be the shadows main man in TAR, which says something considering they have lanny an moggy. He hunts wolves in TAR which are the most adept creatures there.

Perrin showed at the end of ToM that he is so confedant in TAR he tried to wash away the DO's corruption of it by himself, don't think eggy would try that.

 

But that is our point. Will trumps combat. No Eggs supporter thinks she'll fight like slayer did. More like, she'll just will Perrin to her location lock him down, and crush his mind too. Now you can quibble about whether she's that good yet or not, but fact of the matter is Perrin cannot and will never do anything nearly so badass.

 

Eggy's fighting style is precisely why she can't beat Slayer.

 

She can defeat forsaken because they fight like humans, and can get tied down by force of will. However, her skill in TAR is still surpassed by Bair, who commented on her predictability and lack of innovation. Despite being among the top 10 dream walkers of any humans in WOT, Bair and Egwene don't have anywhere close to the strength required to fight Slayer.

 

As someone's already claimed, Moghedien, the strongest dream walker in the series, was scared out of her pants by the prospect of getting between Rahvin and Rand's duel. Rahvin could be explained as an expert in TAR combat but Rand can not. Rand has no clue how to fight in TAR and was using instinct alone. His instinct couldn't have been very strong, as he's a man and no creature of TAR. If someone who has absolutely no clue how to fight in TAR will frighten it's most adept denizen by being there in the flesh, it undoubtedly affords them an advantage in strength that can't be outmatched by adroit manipulation of TAR. Being in TAR in the flesh is considered "something of the shadow" and we will most likely not see any light siders attempt to fight Slayer this way as they believe it will leave something of you permanently there.

 

Bela, Cenn Buie, and Raen could spank Egwene's bottom all day and night if they were in TAR in the flesh.

 

Slayer is a beast, a lion. Egwene's a human, she's one of the most adroit fighters. However, Slayer's beyond the skill of talented human martial artists. Perrin and the pack are shown to have the capacity to defeat him. With enough wolves, the pack can down even the lion.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Slayer is going to go down (I hope for a waking world battle between him and Lan, and perhaps the wolves can help if they go north to Tarwin's Gap to help him), but I'm almost absolutely certain that he will not be getting killed by a traditional dream walker in a duel.

 

Mohg specifically says she's scared because they were there in the flesh and could channel much more strongly. And then she was more scared when she found ut they were throwing balefire around willy nilly. And given mogh had forgotten she could just will the leash away, she was clearly not in a clear thinking state. Oh, and mohg is a coward by nature. None of that fear had to do with TAR-ing.

 

And I have asked for proof that Slayer is a beast, no one has ever offered any. I get that you got that feeling when reading it. But Padan Fain shows some epic powers, slayer does not. This post goes right back to my previous post where you think slayer is good because he beats perrin, and you think Perrin is good because he almost beats slayer. Well guess what, they might both just suck.

 

What makes you think Egwene cannot lock down slayer? Or that Elayne or Nynaeve couldn't do it even? Because his name is cool?

 

are you kidding me? Slayer has been GIVING Fain nightmares, the Dark One sent Slayer to kill Fain and Fain's been having problems with Slayer for a long time now.

[Mandro]

Egwene is weaker, PERIOD! Not cuz I hate Egwene, though I do, but because she found strength through external measures. Perrin found it in himself.

[Xcorpyo001]

Egwene is weaker, PERIOD! Not cuz I hate Egwene, though I do, but because she found strength through external measures. Perrin found it in himself.

 

She's not weaker, but her battle tactics both in the real world and TaR are somewhat linear, and if she will find an enemy able to jump directly to the last stage(trying to kill her), she'll have a problem.

Her battle plan so far, dealing with Seachan, BA, Elaida, Mesanna, etc:

1. Try to fight enemy.

2. Get captured by enemy(Suroth, bandits, BA in Tear, AS guarding chain, Mesanna, etc)

3. Bore your enemy to death, or try to escape and(or) kill him after a lot of bla bla bla.

 

I don't think Slayer will put an adam on her neck and wait for her to recover and crush him with superior stubbornesswillpower. He will put a dagger through her heart/head the first chance he'll got.

Of course, since he's the only one able to enlighten us on his conception, what really happened to Isam and Luc, how he got his TaR prowess, he will probably capture his enemy(Perrin, Egwene), be in a perfect position to kill him/her, but start talking about his issues until the good guys will find a way to escape and kill him, making it another boring death.

[Lisa Campbell]

Just finished reading ToM all I have to say is Perrin stopped Balefire....

Just saying, oh and he bested Slayer in a nightmare which most others from Tel'aran'rhiod completely avoid..

V/R

S

 

I remember from one of the books re: Egwene's apprenticeship that the Wise Ones take care of any nightmares they come across. Egwene passed that on to Nynaeve and Elayne which is why they knew how to help Sheriam and co. when they got sucked into a nightmare in Salidar. I think it was set up by Moghedian before Nynaeve captured her.

 

 

Yes, but they do it differently. The WO and Egwene try to close the nightmare completely, usually from outside, and stay away from the stronger ones.

And how Elayne+AS managed to escape: they tried to imagine that the nightmare is not real. So they escaped the Trollocs by thinking they were not there.

How Perrin is doing it is totally different. He seeks out a nightmare and faces the threat, not try to run from it. So, if he enters a cave full of Trollocs, he does not run, he just creates a hammer/axe and doesn't stop until there are no more live Trollocs.

Dealing with nightmares, wolf style. I like his way.

 

Perrin isn't facing a threat and diffusing it as the Wise Ones do. He uses the nightmares as a tool in the hope that Slayer would get distracted and give Perrin the chance to beat him. It was a tactic planned with Hopper and it was just incidental that Perrin learned to diffuse nightmares as part of his training. The wolves are the ones who avoid nightmares unless they decide to strategically use them to gain advantage in the hunt. Nowhere is it said that the wolves go around fixing TAR up when they find nightmares.

 

And the method is exactly the same wolf style or Wise Ones, they refuse to accept the reality of the nightmare and restore TAR to what it should be. The same method that Elayne and Nynaeve used and the same as how Perrin makes the grasses etc. part for him when he is training with Hopper (who is manipulating said grasses to hinder Perrin).

 

Egwene's disadvantage is that she uses the Power as her first offence/defence. The "I am the Tower" scene with Mesaana, although melodramatic, shows how quickly she adjusted the way she uses TAR by making her vision (of Mesaana mind-crushed) reality. Moghedian is supposed to be the best at TAR excluding Perrin, Slayer and wolves and she could not escape the A'dam when Nynaeve captured her by using the same method - creating the reality and holding it.

 

Perrin might seem stronger now, but I think that once Egwene has a chance to hone her skills and separate channeling and dreamwalking, that they'll be about equal. They can both learn from each other so I'm hoping to see some collaboration in AMoL.

[Kahsm]

Egwene is weaker, PERIOD! Not cuz I hate Egwene, though I do, but because she found strength through external measures. Perrin found it in himself.

 

She's not weaker, but her battle tactics both in the real world and TaR are somewhat linear, and if she will find an enemy able to jump directly to the last stage(trying to kill her), she'll have a problem.

Her battle plan so far, dealing with Seachan, BA, Elaida, Mesanna, etc:

1. Try to fight enemy.

2. Get captured by enemy(Suroth, bandits, BA in Tear, AS guarding chain, Mesanna, etc)

3. Bore your enemy to death, or try to escape and(or) kill him after a lot of bla bla bla.

 

I don't think Slayer will put an adam on her neck and wait for her to recover and crush him with superior stubbornesswillpower. He will put a dagger through her heart/head the first chance he'll got.

Of course, since he's the only one able to enlighten us on his conception, what really happened to Isam and Luc, how he got his TaR prowess, he will probably capture his enemy(Perrin, Egwene), be in a perfect position to kill him/her, but start talking about his issues until the good guys will find a way to escape and kill him, making it another boring death.

 

 

Just finished reading ToM all I have to say is Perrin stopped Balefire....

Just saying, oh and he bested Slayer in a nightmare which most others from Tel'aran'rhiod completely avoid..

V/R

S

 

I remember from one of the books re: Egwene's apprenticeship that the Wise Ones take care of any nightmares they come across. Egwene passed that on to Nynaeve and Elayne which is why they knew how to help Sheriam and co. when they got sucked into a nightmare in Salidar. I think it was set up by Moghedian before Nynaeve captured her.

 

 

Yes, but they do it differently. The WO and Egwene try to close the nightmare completely, usually from outside, and stay away from the stronger ones.

And how Elayne+AS managed to escape: they tried to imagine that the nightmare is not real. So they escaped the Trollocs by thinking they were not there.

How Perrin is doing it is totally different. He seeks out a nightmare and faces the threat, not try to run from it. So, if he enters a cave full of Trollocs, he does not run, he just creates a hammer/axe and doesn't stop until there are no more live Trollocs.

Dealing with nightmares, wolf style. I like his way.

 

Perrin isn't facing a threat and diffusing it as the Wise Ones do. He uses the nightmares as a tool in the hope that Slayer would get distracted and give Perrin the chance to beat him. It was a tactic planned with Hopper and it was just incidental that Perrin learned to diffuse nightmares as part of his training. The wolves are the ones who avoid nightmares unless they decide to strategically use them to gain advantage in the hunt. Nowhere is it said that the wolves go around fixing TAR up when they find nightmares.

 

And the method is exactly the same wolf style or Wise Ones, they refuse to accept the reality of the nightmare and restore TAR to what it should be. The same method that Elayne and Nynaeve used and the same as how Perrin makes the grasses etc. part for him when he is training with Hopper (who is manipulating said grasses to hinder Perrin).

 

Egwene's disadvantage is that she uses the Power as her first offence/defence. The "I am the Tower" scene with Mesaana, although melodramatic, shows how quickly she adjusted the way she uses TAR by making her vision (of Mesaana mind-crushed) reality. Moghedian is supposed to be the best at TAR excluding Perrin, Slayer and wolves and she could not escape the A'dam when Nynaeve captured her by using the same method - creating the reality and holding it.

 

Perrin might seem stronger now, but I think that once Egwene has a chance to hone her skills and separate channeling and dreamwalking, that they'll be about equal. They can both learn from each other so I'm hoping to see some collaboration in AMoL.

 

Again, Author said it is unwise to assume Perrin is better than Egwene based on that battle, you are both being unwise. Egwene already realized she was being silly by the end. No training required.

[Lisa Campbell]

Egwene is weaker, PERIOD! Not cuz I hate Egwene, though I do, but because she found strength through external measures. Perrin found it in himself.

 

She's not weaker, but her battle tactics both in the real world and TaR are somewhat linear, and if she will find an enemy able to jump directly to the last stage(trying to kill her), she'll have a problem.

Her battle plan so far, dealing with Seachan, BA, Elaida, Mesanna, etc:

1. Try to fight enemy.

2. Get captured by enemy(Suroth, bandits, BA in Tear, AS guarding chain, Mesanna, etc)

3. Bore your enemy to death, or try to escape and(or) kill him after a lot of bla bla bla.

 

I don't think Slayer will put an adam on her neck and wait for her to recover and crush him with superior stubbornesswillpower. He will put a dagger through her heart/head the first chance he'll got.

Of course, since he's the only one able to enlighten us on his conception, what really happened to Isam and Luc, how he got his TaR prowess, he will probably capture his enemy(Perrin, Egwene), be in a perfect position to kill him/her, but start talking about his issues until the good guys will find a way to escape and kill him, making it another boring death.

 

 

Just finished reading ToM all I have to say is Perrin stopped Balefire....

Just saying, oh and he bested Slayer in a nightmare which most others from Tel'aran'rhiod completely avoid..

V/R

S

 

I remember from one of the books re: Egwene's apprenticeship that the Wise Ones take care of any nightmares they come across. Egwene passed that on to Nynaeve and Elayne which is why they knew how to help Sheriam and co. when they got sucked into a nightmare in Salidar. I think it was set up by Moghedian before Nynaeve captured her.

 

 

Yes, but they do it differently. The WO and Egwene try to close the nightmare completely, usually from outside, and stay away from the stronger ones.

And how Elayne+AS managed to escape: they tried to imagine that the nightmare is not real. So they escaped the Trollocs by thinking they were not there.

How Perrin is doing it is totally different. He seeks out a nightmare and faces the threat, not try to run from it. So, if he enters a cave full of Trollocs, he does not run, he just creates a hammer/axe and doesn't stop until there are no more live Trollocs.

Dealing with nightmares, wolf style. I like his way.

 

Perrin isn't facing a threat and diffusing it as the Wise Ones do. He uses the nightmares as a tool in the hope that Slayer would get distracted and give Perrin the chance to beat him. It was a tactic planned with Hopper and it was just incidental that Perrin learned to diffuse nightmares as part of his training. The wolves are the ones who avoid nightmares unless they decide to strategically use them to gain advantage in the hunt. Nowhere is it said that the wolves go around fixing TAR up when they find nightmares.

 

And the method is exactly the same wolf style or Wise Ones, they refuse to accept the reality of the nightmare and restore TAR to what it should be. The same method that Elayne and Nynaeve used and the same as how Perrin makes the grasses etc. part for him when he is training with Hopper (who is manipulating said grasses to hinder Perrin).

 

Egwene's disadvantage is that she uses the Power as her first offence/defence. The "I am the Tower" scene with Mesaana, although melodramatic, shows how quickly she adjusted the way she uses TAR by making her vision (of Mesaana mind-crushed) reality. Moghedian is supposed to be the best at TAR excluding Perrin, Slayer and wolves and she could not escape the A'dam when Nynaeve captured her by using the same method - creating the reality and holding it.

 

Perrin might seem stronger now, but I think that once Egwene has a chance to hone her skills and separate channeling and dreamwalking, that they'll be about equal. They can both learn from each other so I'm hoping to see some collaboration in AMoL.

 

Again, Author said it is unwise to assume Perrin is better than Egwene based on that battle, you are both being unwise. Egwene already realized she was being silly by the end. No training required.

 

(Underline mine) Isn't that what I said? It was certainly my intent as summarised in my conclusion.

[MasterAblar]

Egwene is weaker, PERIOD! Not cuz I hate Egwene, though I do, but because she found strength through external measures. Perrin found it in himself.

 

She's not weaker, but her battle tactics both in the real world and TaR are somewhat linear, and if she will find an enemy able to jump directly to the last stage(trying to kill her), she'll have a problem.

Her battle plan so far, dealing with Seachan, BA, Elaida, Mesanna, etc:

1. Try to fight enemy.

2. Get captured by enemy(Suroth, bandits, BA in Tear, AS guarding chain, Mesanna, etc)

3. Bore your enemy to death, or try to escape and(or) kill him after a lot of bla bla bla.

 

I don't think Slayer will put an adam on her neck and wait for her to recover and crush him with superior stubbornesswillpower. He will put a dagger through her heart/head the first chance he'll got.

Of course, since he's the only one able to enlighten us on his conception, what really happened to Isam and Luc, how he got his TaR prowess, he will probably capture his enemy(Perrin, Egwene), be in a perfect position to kill him/her, but start talking about his issues until the good guys will find a way to escape and kill him, making it another boring death.

 

 

Just finished reading ToM all I have to say is Perrin stopped Balefire....

Just saying, oh and he bested Slayer in a nightmare which most others from Tel'aran'rhiod completely avoid..

V/R

S

 

I remember from one of the books re: Egwene's apprenticeship that the Wise Ones take care of any nightmares they come across. Egwene passed that on to Nynaeve and Elayne which is why they knew how to help Sheriam and co. when they got sucked into a nightmare in Salidar. I think it was set up by Moghedian before Nynaeve captured her.

 

 

Yes, but they do it differently. The WO and Egwene try to close the nightmare completely, usually from outside, and stay away from the stronger ones.

And how Elayne+AS managed to escape: they tried to imagine that the nightmare is not real. So they escaped the Trollocs by thinking they were not there.

How Perrin is doing it is totally different. He seeks out a nightmare and faces the threat, not try to run from it. So, if he enters a cave full of Trollocs, he does not run, he just creates a hammer/axe and doesn't stop until there are no more live Trollocs.

Dealing with nightmares, wolf style. I like his way.

 

Perrin isn't facing a threat and diffusing it as the Wise Ones do. He uses the nightmares as a tool in the hope that Slayer would get distracted and give Perrin the chance to beat him. It was a tactic planned with Hopper and it was just incidental that Perrin learned to diffuse nightmares as part of his training. The wolves are the ones who avoid nightmares unless they decide to strategically use them to gain advantage in the hunt. Nowhere is it said that the wolves go around fixing TAR up when they find nightmares.

 

And the method is exactly the same wolf style or Wise Ones, they refuse to accept the reality of the nightmare and restore TAR to what it should be. The same method that Elayne and Nynaeve used and the same as how Perrin makes the grasses etc. part for him when he is training with Hopper (who is manipulating said grasses to hinder Perrin).

 

Egwene's disadvantage is that she uses the Power as her first offence/defence. The "I am the Tower" scene with Mesaana, although melodramatic, shows how quickly she adjusted the way she uses TAR by making her vision (of Mesaana mind-crushed) reality. Moghedian is supposed to be the best at TAR excluding Perrin, Slayer and wolves and she could not escape the A'dam when Nynaeve captured her by using the same method - creating the reality and holding it.

 

Perrin might seem stronger now, but I think that once Egwene has a chance to hone her skills and separate channeling and dreamwalking, that they'll be about equal. They can both learn from each other so I'm hoping to see some collaboration in AMoL.

 

Again, Author said it is unwise to assume Perrin is better than Egwene based on that battle, you are both being unwise. Egwene already realized she was being silly by the end. No training required.

 

By that logic, Perrin should be able to off Slayer by the end of tSR. Afterall he managed to stick an arrow in Slayer and make him flee TAR. But it obviously doesn't work that way. He succeeded once, it doesn't mean he'll succeed again or that he won't need training. Egwene managed to overcome her instincs after being put under great pressure and having what she would instinctively do (channel) made impossible by the adam. I fail to see how that suddenly means her instinct is no longer to channel, or that she won't need training to overcome it. It's the difference between theory and reality. She knows that thought is better than channelling in TAR, but despite that, her instinct is still to channel. You can't bypass training. Only Mat through his memories of previous generals, and Rand through LTT have excuses to bypass it.