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"It's a trap!"


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If there's a thread, please bump it.

 

I know there's speculation over whether Lanfear really is pleading for Rand's help or if she is luring him into a trap. While I would love for it to be the former, in which case Meirin may be converting back to the Light, which would add great depth to her character, I suspect it's the latter. When Shaidar Haran comes to Graendal in the epilogue of Towers of Midnight, she tries defending herself by saying she can still get to Rand because he thinks her dead, but Shaidar Haran says that task has been given to someone else. It seems too coincidental then that a couple scenes later finds Rand and Lanfear (Cyndane) together, with Lanfear crying over her torment and begging for Rand's help. So it seems likely that it's just another act of villainy, in which case Lanfear is an awesome villain again (since she hasn't had any great villanious scenes as Cyndane yet, except briefly at the Battle near Shadar Logoth), but I'm still hoping she really is trying to get Rand's help, and maybe the task of killing Rand has been passed on to either Moridin (likely) or Demandred (possible).

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Lanfear might be sincere, she failed and is suffering for it, she hit bottom and is feeling sorry for herself. It doesn't mean she's sorry for everything she done, only sorry for failing.

Her crying for help doesn't mean she want's to go back to the light. Lanfear does not follow Dark or Light... she goes where the power is.

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My thoughts are mostly based on what I think would make a better story. A trap is lame, and just doesn't feel right at this point in the books.

 

I think a truly desperate Lanfear would make a much better ending. Rand disappearing to save her. Maybe he doesn't even show up to face Egwene. She doesn't have to be repentant or going back to the light, just desperate... Rand is the only one who might be able to do something to help her.

 

Though if Rand does save her, she may denounce the shadow if Rand (LTT) tells her what Moridin knows about the lack of a world to rule afterwards. Thus making Rand the one to be able to offer Lanfear real power after TG. I think it would be too much for her to flip on a dime to being all "bless the light!" But she could have motive to switch sides, at least temporarily.

 

Lanfear Nynaeve Rand with Callandor? Lanfear the Onyx (black*) hand?!

 

*Note I'm not really big on Onyx hand meaning black meaning shadow. Seems like too many leaps, but it's possible

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My thoughts are mostly based on what I think would make a better story. A trap is lame, and just doesn't feel right at this point in the books.

 

I think a truly desperate Lanfear would make a much better ending. Rand disappearing to save her. Maybe he doesn't even show up to face Egwene. She doesn't have to be repentant or going back to the light, just desperate... Rand is the only one who might be able to do something to help her.

 

Though if Rand does save her, she may denounce the shadow if Rand (LTT) tells her what Moridin knows about the lack of a world to rule afterwards. Thus making Rand the one to be able to offer Lanfear real power after TG. I think it would be too much for her to flip on a dime to being all "bless the light!" But she could have motive to switch sides, at least temporarily.

 

Lanfear Nynaeve Rand with Callandor? Lanfear the Onyx (black*) hand?!

 

*Note I'm not really big on Onyx hand meaning black meaning shadow. Seems like too many leaps, but it's possible

 

What Lanfear does in the future doesn't erase what she's done in the past. She deserves the death sentence (in that world of course. I'll keep my personal views on that to myself) a thousand times over.

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My thoughts are mostly based on what I think would make a better story. A trap is lame, and just doesn't feel right at this point in the books.

 

I'm not sure. At one point Lanfear's redemption would have made for a very interesting plot arc, but her character hasn't really been developed enough to make that work well. Of all the Forsaken, only Ishamael really has the character build-up to make redemption mean something for the reader, and even in his case it'd be more like Darth Vader than, say, one of GRRM's villains.

 

That isn't to say I think it's purely a trap; there's a good chance that Lanfear is at least partially sincere here. I just think don't think there's enough time left for a rescue/redemption arc to play out properly.

 

-- dwn

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I honestly can't see any of the Forsaken returning to the light, and surviving. After three millennia as the most feared and hated persons is just doesn't make sence. And I don't see any of them changing drastically enough to sacrifice him/her-self for the light.

 

That doesn't mean I am sure it's a trap, Lanfear could really be needing help, but as was mentioned above, the way it is written surely makes it out as a trap. And that in itself may be the most valid argument that it is not. :biggrin:

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RJ said outright that Lanfear was pure evil. In addition, her POV during the cleansing, where she clearly wanted to see Rand die, doesn't really mesh well with any sort of possible redemption. My guess is that it is indeed a trap and that Lanfear is the 'other' Shaidar Haran spoke of when he appeared before Graendal.

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My guess: Lanfear is quite in the nothing-to-lose position:

 

Best case: Rand comes for her help and kills Moridin. Lanfear is de-mindtrapped and happy and free to bed and/or balefire Rand, maybe even side with him for TG (if the outcome looks promising to her, not that that would change her attitude towards the Light).

 

Second best case: Rand comes and gets blown to pieces by Moridin. She gets credit for her help in eliminating DR and in an overwhelming moment of gratefulness gets de-mindtrapped and is made Nae'blis (or balefires Moridin and makes herself Nae'blis).

 

Those two are arguably interchangeable.

 

Worst case: Rand doesn't show up and the status quo remains unchanged.

 

So I ask you: What reason would she have not to try?!

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If it turns out to be a trap I am going to be thoroughly disappointed because it will throw away a great chance to show a lot of depth in a character that has been a great villain in the early part of the series.

 

A couple things make me believe that it is not a trap:

 

1) We know Moridin and Rand are linked and their dreams are crossing over. To say that Moridin is onto this and is taking advantage of it with Lanfear is pretty cheesy and doesn't fit the story well. It was made pretty clear that Rand was inside HIS head and calm in HIS dreams during the event in question. I suppose Lanfear could be using her super dream powers to break into Rand's head, but that seems a bit of a stretch.

 

2) Lanfear has obviously hit rock bottom and does not like it at all.

 

3) Lanfear is unique as a villain and has been unique since the first moment she was introducted. RJ went out of his way to show that she was not always evil, not really loyal to the dark cause the way the others are, willing to turn on the Shadow in a heartbeat, and...most importantly...she opened the bore. She also had some unique events occur to her in the world of the Snakes & Foxes. This all leads to her having a key part in the final book with a lot of information about her to be revealed. If she just turns out to be a typical bad guy pawn of Moridin who tries to trap and kill Rand again then it pretty much negates the whole use of all of her background and character. She may as well be Moghedien or Graendal.

 

4) Rand doesn't know how to close the bore...and coincidentally Lanfear is the one who opened it. Also coincidentally, during the crucial time where Rand may need her help...she is hating her life in the Shadow right now and in a dream asking for help. Too much coincidence imo.

 

IMO - one reason for the title "A Memory of Light" will be because Lanfear remembers the light and turns back providing crucial help for the good guys to win. I also think she will be one of the girls in the Callandor link. She's going to play a key role in the last book IMO, and most likely will end up turning back to the good guys before she inevitably dies.

 

To just throw Lanfear into the generic bad guy category after developing her character so thoroughly would be such a waste it would be a huge turn off. I am waiting for something big about her. I am expecting that part of the reason she even turned to the dark to begin with was her pride and not having much choice...her research companion killed himself if you remember because he couldn't live with the guilt of what he had done to the world. And apparently everyone was pretty pissed with him too. Lanfear likely was ostracized from society until she just flat out quit and joined the other team where she could maintain her pride and sense of power.

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RJ went out of his way to show that she was not always evil, not really loyal to the dark cause the way the others are, willing to turn on the Shadow in a heartbeat, and...most importantly...she opened the bore.

 

I'm fairly certain there's a quote where RJ laughs at the notion that Lanfear wasn't always evil and states that she was ripe for the Shadow's plucking long before the Bore was drilled. Which is a great shame because without that statement she would be a much more interesting villain.

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My thoughts are mostly based on what I think would make a better story. A trap is lame, and just doesn't feel right at this point in the books.

 

I think a truly desperate Lanfear would make a much better ending. Rand disappearing to save her. Maybe he doesn't even show up to face Egwene. She doesn't have to be repentant or going back to the light, just desperate... Rand is the only one who might be able to do something to help her.

 

Though if Rand does save her, she may denounce the shadow if Rand (LTT) tells her what Moridin knows about the lack of a world to rule afterwards. Thus making Rand the one to be able to offer Lanfear real power after TG. I think it would be too much for her to flip on a dime to being all "bless the light!" But she could have motive to switch sides, at least temporarily.

 

Lanfear Nynaeve Rand with Callandor? Lanfear the Onyx (black*) hand?!

 

*Note I'm not really big on Onyx hand meaning black meaning shadow. Seems like too many leaps, but it's possible

 

What Lanfear does in the future doesn't erase what she's done in the past. She deserves the death sentence (in that world of course. I'll keep my personal views on that to myself) a thousand times over.

 

It doesn't have to. Rand isn't one to let her be tortured. So assuming she really is asking for help, he would likely go save her, though maybe Zen Rand has a new perspective on those things. And then she does have special knowledge about the bore. So I doubt he'd just kill her because she's "bad" even though she could help save the world.

 

That's why I said it doesn't have to be about redemption, but opportunity. While some mention an RJ quote about her being "Evil to the core" or "ripe for the picking" That all seems to revolve around her addiction to power and influence. And as I tried to suggest, if Rand convinces her that there is zero future following the DO, she could have the same motivation to help Rand. That doesn't make her good, but it does make her useful.

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My thoughts are mostly based on what I think would make a better story. A trap is lame, and just doesn't feel right at this point in the books.

 

I think a truly desperate Lanfear would make a much better ending. Rand disappearing to save her. Maybe he doesn't even show up to face Egwene. She doesn't have to be repentant or going back to the light, just desperate... Rand is the only one who might be able to do something to help her.

 

Though if Rand does save her, she may denounce the shadow if Rand (LTT) tells her what Moridin knows about the lack of a world to rule afterwards. Thus making Rand the one to be able to offer Lanfear real power after TG. I think it would be too much for her to flip on a dime to being all "bless the light!" But she could have motive to switch sides, at least temporarily.

 

Lanfear Nynaeve Rand with Callandor? Lanfear the Onyx (black*) hand?!

 

*Note I'm not really big on Onyx hand meaning black meaning shadow. Seems like too many leaps, but it's possible

 

i don't know if anyone has done this before but i have an onyx ring that i wear to keep me positive and focused under pressure (apparently)and i looked up the in-depth spiritual meaning of onyx (cos i only had a vague understanding that it focuses and gets rid of negativity) when i read the black onyx viewing cos i thought onyx is an unusual piece of information for Min to be certain about and since i collect crystals as well, i thought that the spiritual properties of onyx (what it apparently does) will be important is syfering out what the foretelling means, it is a piece of symbolism i don't think anyone else has picked up on, they are only using the colour as an indication of the shadow (tho if anyone has thought what i thought i apologise) and this came up

 

Onyx Gemstone meaning

 

Onyx is known to separate. It can help release negative emotions such as sorrow and grief. It is used to end unhappy or bothersome relationships.

Onyx guards against negativity

 

Onyx jewellery is worn to defend against negativity that is directed at you. Black stones have protective energies in the sense that black is the absence of light, and therefore, can be used to create invisibility.

 

this is another interesting line

 

Onyx (Meaning): It is good for general happiness and prosperity and it is also supposed to cure nightmares, fantasies and visions. It effectively wards off the evil eye, acting as if alive, by creeping about and removing anything obnoxious.

 

 

my crystal books and the internet all basically say the same thing that onyx is good for getting someone through a difficult, confusing time, usually to get over things or recover from stuff, it helps keep you a clear mind to resist dark or unwanted temptations (it is said to help alcoholics in their first few step to recovery btw :biggrin:) and like if you’re having bad dreams, it helps to repel them.. and just general negativity..

 

like i don't know if i agree with your theory but a lot can be said from the spiritual meaning of onyx, like it could be talking about the TP or a whole load of things.. it is a very good and suttle way of foreshadowing using onyx i think anyhow.. But im not enough of a WoT reader (only read through them once but re-reading them as its my fav series) to come up wiv a good theory with this information in mind...

 

edit: just sorting my spelling.. :blush:

Edited by Bookworm101
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